What does this word mean?

[V Subrahmanian]

Namaste.

Among south Indians it is  not uncommon to find names such as these:

subbaraman, subbarayan, subbakrishna, subba rao, subbamma and even subbalakshmi and subbulu (feminine).  subbudu and subbarayudu are also there among Telugu people. I would like to know what this 'subba' means in all these names.  Some people say that 'subba' is a short form for 'subrahmanya'.  In that case how does it go with subbalakshmi?

v.subrahmanian

[Hnbhat B.R.]

I think the proper name of the popular singer is

M. S. Subbulakshmi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._S._Subbulakshmi

Madurai Shanmukhavadivu Subbulakshmi (Tamil: மதுரை சண்முகவடிவு சுப்புலட்சுமி, Madhurai Shanmukhavadivu Subbulaxmi

and not Subbalakshmi.

Why to waste time in unnecessary enquiries? सुब्रह्मण्यायां स्वरितस्य तूदात्तः is the use of the word in Sanskrit in feminine gender as qualifying a ऋक्. This would explain the use of the abbreviation of the same to MSS IF one wants to Sanskritize the name as applied to females.

--
Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R. M.A., Ph.D.,
Research Scholar,

Ecole française d'Extrême-OrientCentre de Pondichéry

16 & 19, Rue Dumas

Pondichéry - 605 001

[Dipak Bhattacharya]

Subbalakṣmī is Śubhalakṣmī in Bengali. By analogy we may assume Śubharāma, Śubharāja, Śubhakrīṣṇa, again Śubharāja and Śubhāmbā for subbaraman, subbarayan, subbakrishna, subba rao, subbamma. Subramaniam is Subrahmaṇya. Subbulu (feminine),  Subbudu and Subbarayudu sound like Telugu. Is the latter an extended form of Subbarayan?

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From: V Subrahmanian <v.subra...@gmail.com>
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 18 January 2012 5:00 PM
Subject: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} What does this word mean?

--
अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।
ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः।
निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)

[Hnbhat B.R.]

For the Dravidian origin of the word here is the entry in the entry in the Etymological Dictionary:

1. 2536 Ko. ceb: (page 221)

2536 Ko. ceb

2536 Ko. ceb sores on the mouth in syphilis. Ka. cibba, cibbu, sibba, sibbu, sibbe a whitish, reddish or blackish spot on the body. Tu. cibbu white spots on the body; śibba, śibbu, subba, subbu a blotch, discolouring of the skin; śiḍibu, śiḍubu the pustule of smallpox. Te. sibbiyamu, sibbemu, sōbiya, sōbe a sort of discoloration and spots formed on the skin; ciḍumu itch, scabies. Go. (SR.) subbā white patches on

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2. 2536 Ko. ceb: (page 221)

body; śibba, śibbu, subba, subbu a blotch, discolouring of the skin; śiḍibu, śiḍubu the pustule of smallpox. Te. sibbiyamu, sibbemu, sōbiya, sōbe a sort of discoloration and spots formed on the skin; ciḍumu itch, scabies. Go. (SR.) subbā white patches on a man's skin (Voc. 3441);? (Tr.) sīpōwā id. (Voc. 3421). / Said to be from Skt. sidhma- blotch, leprous spot, leprosy. Cf. Mar. śibẽ a mild form of leprosy, a blotch or scab of it; Turner, CDIAL, no. 13406.

[Dipak Bhattacharya]

A name usually consists of words with auspicious meaning. It is not possible that diseases should be indicated by name.

Best

DB

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From: Hnbhat B.R. <hnbh...@gmail.com>
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 18 January 2012 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} What does this word mean?

[V Subrahmanian]

2012/1/18 Hnbhat B.R. <hnbh...@gmail.com>

I think the proper name of the popular singer is

M. S. Subbulakshmi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._S._Subbulakshmi

Madurai Shanmukhavadivu Subbulakshmi (Tamil: மதுரை சண்முகவடிவு சுப்புலட்சுமி, Madhurai Shanmukhavadivu Subbulaxmi

and not Subbalakshmi.

Actually the first given name is not properly spelled. It is correctly spelled as  Subbalakshmi in Karnataka by those who have been given that name.  I just came across a person yesterday who even pronounced it as 'Subbalakshmi'.  One can see this spelling used in many places for M.S.S. by giving a google search with 'a' instead of 'u'.  There are other names like Venkatasubba rao, Ramasubba, etc.

Why to waste time in unnecessary enquiries?

Way back in 1978 I was asked 'what is the meaning of Subrahmanyan'? by a Bengali interviewer when I had applied for a position in CMC which was formed immediately after IBM left India.  I had never expected this question but gave an answer somewhat close to the correct meaning. 

I still wish to know how 'subba' can go with 'lakshmi'. 

Regards,
subrahmanian.v

  

[subrahmanyam korada]

नमो  विद्वद्भ्यः

’सुब्रह्मण्यो’ं सुब्रह्मण्यो’ं सुब्रह्मण्योम् ’ - is the यजुर्मन्त्रः in तैत्तिरीयारण्यकम् - अरुणप्रपाठकः  (not a ऋक् )I

अत्र सन्ति जैमिनिसूत्राणि --
सा ऋक् यत्रार्थवशेन पादव्यवस्था , गीतिषु सामाख्या , शेषे यजुश्शब्दः

Then Jaimini discusses the term ' निगदः’ and puts under 'यजुष्’ I

'सुब्रह्मण्या नाम निगदः’ - गद = व्यक्तायां वाचि , अप् प्रत्ययः , ’ नेर्गदनद ... ’ ( ३-३-६४) - नितरां गद्यते , अपादबन्धं यन्मन्त्रवाक्यं उच्चैः पठ्यते स निगदः I

Its name , by nature, is in स्त्रीलिङ्ग and the same is taken as such  in  the सूत्रम् I

सुब्रह्मणि साधुः - यत् प्रत्ययः - ’ तत्र साधुः’ (४-४-९८)

We cannot say - what's in name !

Subba / subbu / subbAraya(u) etc. - all are अपभ्रंशाः  of  सुब्रह्मण्य - सुब्र - सुब्ब / सुब्बु .

सुभगा - may be another remote possibility for सुब्ब(उ)लक्ष्मि ( लक्ष्मीः / लक्ष्मी)

Even my  गुरुः and गुरूणां गुरुः श्री कोंपेल्ल सुब्बरायशास्त्री  had had the influence of vernacular (Telugu) on his name .

दैवी वाक् व्यवकीर्णेयम् अशक्तैरभिधातृभिः -- भर्तृहरिः ब्रह्मकाण्डान्ते

धन्यो’स्मि

2012/1/19 V Subrahmanian <v.subra...@gmail.com>

--

अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।
ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः।
निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)

--
Prof.Korada Subrahmanyam
Professor of Sanskrit,
CALTS,
University of Hyderabad 500046
Ph:09866110741(R),91-40-23010741,040-23133660(O)

[S.R.Krishnamurthy]

'subba' is not merely used with feminine names, as suggested in one place. For example, 'Subbanna' is one of the male names. It is also possible that this appellation with the name, widely used only in south India, may be an अपभ्रंश of the word 'Shubha' to start with, with the lakshmi; and later practice diversified for use in all names.

s.r.krishna murthy.

 

2012/1/19 subrahmanyam korada <kora...@gmail.com>

[Hnbhat B.R.]

ಸುಬ್ಬ, ಸುಬ್ಬಿ, ಸುಬ್ಬು subba is used in Kannada in male names, as usual reminding subbaraaya or subramanya (of Kukke), further found, subbi, subbu in feminine forms. Tamil also has got suppa, subra, subba + mani in masculine names, possibly derivable from सुब्रह्मण्य if one wants. Once it comes to Tamil domain, it can freely further derived into subbi, or subbu, or even suppaa or subbaa. No matter whether it has got any relation with the original word and then lakshmi can be added. MS name is adopted according to Kannada practice, also should be Subbu or subbi (or subba without mani) a possible derivation. In Tamil and Kannada it is common formation "subbu" as in Tamil.and subbi is simply derived feminine form from Subba itself. 


For tracing the word one can safely (but artificial so far as I am concerned) either to शुभ्रा (लक्ष्मी), which would be derived as सुब्बा, and सुभ्रू can give the cognate word सुब्बु. But this will be far fetched, whereas it can be easily derived from the masculine corrupt form subba, (subbarao, subraaya, supramani, chuppamani, chuppu, etc. in different ways as pet names called frequently according to their convenience and fashion of their language and family circles). This is a commonly  found fact in many languages. Each have their own distinct way of forming pet names from the popular proper names.