please help-kannada

[RamanaMurthy Bathala]

Dear Schloars,

The following is from : AN ELEMENTARY GRAMMAR OF THE KANNADA OR CANARESE LANGUAGE-1864-Ed.II-THOMAS HODSON

In the screenshot above, the kannada word ಗುಂನೆ is transliterated as gunne (ಗುನ್ನೆ). 

I have two doubts here.

1) After ಗು (gu) the sound is m(ಮ್), but in the transliteration, it is given as n(ನ್).  The expected transliteration is gumne, but it is given as gunne. The same kind of transliteration is given in the dictinary. Please see the screen shot.

2) In the dictionary I can find only ಗುಂನ (gumna) but not ಗುಂನೆ (gumne). But in this grammar book it is given as ಗುಂನೆ (gumne).

I request scholars to help me out.

Regards

Ramana murthy

[Suresh Kolichala]

Dear Ramana murthy,

In many Indian languages, the anusvāra (ṃ) sound represents a homorganic nasal, not just 'm' sound. For example, it is pronounced as the dental nasal /n/ (ನ್) before dental consonants, as the bilabial nasal /m/ (ಮ್) before bilabial consonants, etc. Such usage is found not just in Kannada, but in Telugu, Marathi and even in Hindi. Please note that in many north Indian languages, where loss of nasal sound is common, the anusvāra often simply represents the vowel nasalization, and therefore you might find the symbols of anusvāra and  anunāsika (candrabindu) used interchangeably (although not in the South Indian scripts such as Kannada and Telugu). 

Coming back to Kannada script:

aṅga is written as ಅಂಗ (aṃga) and pronounced as ಅಙ್ಗ (aṅga)

kañca is written as ಕಂಚ (kaṃca) and pronounced as ಕಞ್ಚ (kañca)

kaṇṭha is written as ಕಂಠ (kaṃṭha) and pronounced as ಕಣ್ಠ ( kaṇṭha)

danta is written as ದಂತ (daṃta) and pronounced as ದನ್ತ (danta)

pampa is written as ಪಂಪ (paṃpa)  and pronounced as ಪಮ್ಪ (pampa)

Such simplified representation of nasal in nasal-consonant clusters using a single sign was found even in some of the earlier Prakrit inscriptions, and, I believe, is a brilliant innovation in simplifying the scripts by exploiting the homorganic nature of the nasal sounds.

Regards,

Suresh.

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[RamanaMurthy Bathala]

Dear Sir,

I have complicated the second question. I put in a simple way.

What is the Kannada word for young? Is this ಗುಂನೆ /ಗುನ್ನೆ gunne (ending in ಎ e) or ಗುಂನ/ಗುನ್ನ gunna (ending in ಅ a)?

ಗುಂನೆ /ಗುನ್ನೆ gunne (ending in ಎ e)): This is the word used in the grammar book. But this word is not found in dictionaries. I referred three dictionaries.

ಗುಂನ/ಗುನ್ನ gunna (ending in ಅ a): This is the word found in the dictionaries.

Regards

Ramana murthy

[Srivatsa B R]

Dear scholars,

'guMna/guMne' becoming 'gunna/gunne' as cited by Shri. Ramana Murthy, is a natural language phenomenon known as 'Assimilation' in linguistic terminology.

with regards,

Shrivatsa

Srivatsa B R

Senior Linguist

Centre for Development of Advanced Computing (C-DAC)

'Knowledge Park', # 1, Old Madras Road, Baiyappanahalli, Near Baiyappanahalli Metro Station,

Bengaluru - 560 038

Karnataka, India

[Srivatsa B R]

Dear Ramana Murthy,

The more common word for a youngling in Kannada is 'mari' or 'piLLe'. You can find these words in any dictionary easily.

with regards

Shrivatsa

Srivatsa B R

Senior Linguist

Centre for Development of Advanced Computing (C-DAC)

'Knowledge Park', # 1, Old Madras Road, Baiyappanahalli, Near Baiyappanahalli Metro Station,

Bengaluru - 560 038

Karnataka, India

[Nagaraj Paturi]

The word gunna ēnugu = young elephant is found in Telugu. 

The gu here could be voiced form from the unvoiced ku in words like

kūna = baby, young one (Telugu)

kūchi = baby , young one (Telugu)

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Director, Indic Academy of Sanskrit and Indological Studies.

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

[G S S Murthy]

The word "gunna" or "gunnu" is not in usage to mean a "calf of an animal" in current Kannada. I have checked in "sankShipta kannaDa nighanTu" published by Kannada Saahitya Parishad. Word, "kunni" exists and it means "a calf". "gunna" on the other hand means,a scratch or a mark, especially a mark made by the nail of a top(buguri) on the body of another buguri.

Regards,

Murthy

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[V Subrahmanian]

On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 12:15 PM G S S Murthy <murt...@gmail.com> wrote:

The word "gunna" or "gunnu" is not in usage to mean a "calf of an animal" in current Kannada. I have checked in "sankShipta kannaDa nighanTu" published by Kannada Saahitya Parishad. Word, "kunni" exists and it means "a calf". "gunna" on the other hand means,a scratch or a mark, especially a mark made by the nail of a top(buguri) on the body of another buguri.

I agree with the above observation. Over fifty years ago I have heard the word 'gunna' being used by boys in the above context of 'buguri' game.

regards

subrahmanian.v  

Regards,

Murthy

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Sri Ramana Murthy-ji shared a snapshot from a Kannada dictionary in which the meaning the young of the animal is given. 

"current Kannada"  is a vague concept. 

The snapshot has a meaning 'dwarf ' also. 

In Telugu, there is gūni in the sense of humped back. 

kunni used in the sense of calf is in all probability must be connected to gunna/gunne in that sense to whichever period the usage in that sense belongs. 

On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 12:15 PM G S S Murthy <murt...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[RamanaMurthy Bathala]

Dear Sir,

It seems both the words ಗುಂನ/ಗುನ್ನ gunna (ending in ಅ a) and ಗುಂನೆ /ಗುನ್ನೆ gunne (ending in ಎ e), exist in Kannada.

ಗುಂನ/ಗುನ್ನ gunna (ending in ಅ a): This is the mainstream word found in the dictionaries.

ಗುಂನೆ /ಗುನ್ನೆ gunne (ending in ಎ e)): This is the dialectal variation of mainstream word ಗುಂನ/ಗುನ್ನ gunna, used in Mysore region.

This is found in "A KANNADA-ENGLISH DICTIONARY BY REV. F. KITTEL". See screen shot. Please see the markings.

Regards

Ramana murthy

On Sunday, 7 October 2018 22:26:59 UTC+5:30, RamanaMurthy Bathala wrote: