"Karma is circular logic" - open challenge to disprove this and its corollaries below
Vichitra Thandava
Vishal J
I would say the intent is to accept the reality as it is without getting disturbed, and to live in harmony with others (not just the human species) and the planet.
Nothing in karma theory can be proved by anything in modern science and tech as of today.
"And therefore, there must be an original sin and an original sinner.And therefore, there cannot be have been an original good deed and good doer."
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Nagaraj Paturi
The first return, as it is nowadays happening was google's generative AI .So the following is as obvious as to the google's generative AI:
- Humanity is inherently flawed and sinful due to the transgression of Adam and Eve, inheriting a corrupted nature and a tendency towards sin.
- Suffering is a consequence of humanity's fallen state and separation from God.
- Emphasizes inherited sinfulness and the need for redemption through faith in Jesus Christ.
- Genesis (Christian Bible).
- Every action, thought, and intention creates a corresponding effect, shaping future circumstances, including rebirths.
- Suffering arises from past negative actions, while positive actions lead to positive outcomes.
- Emphasizes individual responsibility for actions and the potential for liberation from suffering through ethical conduct and spiritual practice.
- Dharma (righteous conduct) and liberation from the cycle of rebirth (samsara).
- Original sin attributes suffering to inherited sinfulness, while karma attributes it to individual actions.
- Original sin views humans as inherently flawed, while karma acknowledges humans as capable of both good and bad actions.
- Original sin emphasizes redemption through divine grace, while karma emphasizes self-effort and ethical conduct.
- Original sin primarily applies to humans, while karma applies to all sentient beings.
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Dhiraj Hegde
"And therefore, there must be an original sin and an original sinner.And therefore, there cannot be have been an original good deed and good doer."
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Rajaram Krishnamurthy
AN INTERSTING TOPIC IN ANOTHER GROUP
"Karma is circular logic" - open challenge to disprove this and its corollaries below
1 "And therefore, there must be an original sin and an original sinner.
And therefore, there cannot be have been an original good deed and good doer."
--
I would say the intent is to accept the reality as it is without getting disturbed, and to live in harmony with others (not just the human species) and the planet.
Nothing in karma theory can be proved by anything in modern science and tech as of today.
I keyed in "originial sin vs karma theory" in the google browser :
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Hare Krishna !
My 2 cents.
Karma is anadi, has no beginning. By being beginning less, it does not get into the trap of circular logic.
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CONTD K RAJARAM IRS 26 6 25
Sanskrit learned group needs no extra lessons. Sanatana dharma is based on CAUSE AND EFFECT WHICH MODERN SCIENCE DISCOVERED AS ALATE AS Newton’s 3rd law of motion. Generally, what goes up comes down; may be rarely it may go up up up also. Property of Physics modern youth knew better is unlearnt if it comes to sanatana dharma-is a surprise. There are British ways of interpretations as a theory etc and named it as Karma -theory.
To my best of Knowledge and belief, the best Logic do exist only here where Adi shankara had conducted the classes. HETU is one such. Proof of modern science is conditional and hence subject to change, moderations. Modern science is not even a day baby lacking explanations for so many things. On the basis of subjective conditions only science provided Q E D. Newton was right for long time; because of Einstein, Newton was proved partially correct; that meant, proof was incorrect but we were all ready to believe whatever is uttered in the name of modern science; but if said by Vyasa it is a myth! The concept of cosmology started only by scientist Kapila as Purusha and Prakriti; matter cannot be created nor be destroyed; but alterable. ADVAITHAM IS THAT SIMPLE. STEPHAN HAWKING WAS CHASING A MIRAGE TO FIND PROOF AND ENFORCE ONE BUNDLE THEORY CALLED SINGULARITY BUT UTTERED THAT IT IS NOT POSSIBLE; BUT FAILED TO NOTE THE ADVAITHAM. LOGIC HAS ONE BRANCH CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE IF APPLIED TO THE ACCETABLE MIND PROVIDES ALL THE PROOF; IF NOT……..FOLLOW SATAN THAN DEVAS HERE.
II Now a similar situation was explained by Maha Pericaval in deivatjhin kural to a foreigner who refuted karma theory:
24. Sri Sankara Charitham by Maha Periyava – The Principle of God
The funny part is that Meemamsa, which prescribed only the practice of Vedic rituals, did not talk about Eswara. Jainism and Buddhism, which completely objected to the Vedic rituals, also did not acknowledge Eswara. More funny is this: Keeping aside the observance of Vedic rituals, don’t we talk about principles of Karma and theory of Karma? Every action has a reaction. Every bad action (vinai) has a consequence. Nobody can escape from this. For every good action or bad action that we do, there is a consequence. That is why Karma theory says that even when death occurs to a Jeeva in one body, the soul has to take birth in another body and has to experience the consequences, and that is how the life cycle (samsara chakra) repeats. This concept of taking repeated births to fulfil the requirement to go through the consequences of one’s actions, is not spoken by religions like Christianity, Islam etc. Although this principle is not existent in the present form of these religions, it existed in their original form. Or it is said that this karma concept was there in the Hebrew religions which was prevalent before these religions in those countries. This is not a matter of concern to us. There is no mention about anything related to Christianity and Islam in the historical accounts of Aacharya. However, the reason why I mentioned about the Karma theory is that the religions which had a connection with Aacharya, positively as well as those otherwise, the three religions, Meemamsa, Jainism, and Buddhism had accepted the karma theory. Although these three accepted the karma theory, the funny part is that they did not acknowledge Eswara, the giver of fruits for our actions.
Karma is an inanimate thing. How can it systematically prepare a plan where it can so decisively determine that this is the effect or result for a particular action? Is it not that only an intelligent Eswara could determine and hand out a particular effect for a particular action? Still, on the one side, Meemsakas, denying the existence of Eswara, said that the actions themselves determined the effects or results. On the other side, while continuing to deny the existence of Eswara, the completely non-vedic Buddhists and Jains, built the structure of their philosophy without any foundation when they kept saying that there will be repeated births depending on the karma without giving an explanation as to how the results were obtained and who gave them. In Buddhism, the state of nothingness (Nirvana), Shoonya, is described as the state of moksha and all that happens in the world is only an impression that is obtained by a series of happenings due to Maya and totally false (non-existent). If in this entirely false state everything continues to join and disjoin, how can it so systematically determine, without exception, that this is the specific result for a specific karma (action)? Can’t we guess that everything is not simply an illusion (maya) but there must be a great brain behind which has consciously determined the causes and effects? That great brain is what is called Eswara.
One thing needs to be mentioned here. An important matter. When our Aacharya also said all the worldly activities are in fact, maya and that Brahmam alone is true, some people tend to think that it is a complete copy of Buddhism. These people should understand an important difference. When our Aacharya said that the world is an illusion, he did not at all, say it to mean that it is a continuous run of random activities without a beginning or end, as Buddhists claimed. Aacharya has established that the Eswara, who has the Maya as a quality or with the help of the maya shakthi (energy), has created this form of the world out of Brahmam and also managing it, meting out the results to various karma (actions). To put it in another way, He has described the Brahmam as Nirguna Brahmam, when it is devoid of action and qualities, but manages the world, when it becomes the Saguna Brahman, Eswara, combining with the Maya Shakthi (energy). The very objective of his Adwaitha is to escape from this saguna to Nirguna and indistinctly merge. To achieve this, he has said that it is essential to get the blessings of this Saguna Brahman, the Eswara conjoined with maya and has set the sadhana approach where bhakthi to that brahman is the first step to proceed on this path of Adwaitha knowledge.
One more difference: When you say Maya, it does not mean totally false or illusion. If it is completely false, he would term it as Adhyantha Asath (entirely false). Brahmam is the absolute truth, that is the Nirguna Brahmam (quality-less Brahmam). The thing which is between these two is “Prathibhasika Sathyam”. That is, which appears to be practically true, but which ceases to be true, on attaining the superior knowledge (Gnana). Aacharya calls this Maya as the “Prathibhasika Sathyam, the ephemeral reality and not as entirely false. The world is not absolutely false. It is a temporary truthful state called “Mithyai”.
Only in this in between state of truth and the world, we can say that the Mayi, Eswara is classifying actions as good and bad and accord results for them. In that way only, it can be said that by doing only good, one can get purity of mind with the blessings of Eswara and proceed on the path of superior knowledge. What is it to do good? Being disciplined and conducting righteously. In Buddhism, which says that there exists a state of nothingness which is called Moksha and all other things are entirely illusory, but prescribes disciplines like Ahimsa, Truthfulness, etc., if a question is asked as when everything is illusory or false, what if it is himsa or ahimsa, truth or falsehood, where is the need for dharma, no proper answer can be given. Only in our Aacharya’s philosophy, it is possible to give an answer quoting the Maya world, an in-between state, which is neither fully true nor fully false, controlled by Eswara, when he hands out the fruits as per actions, it can be said that a soul, if it adheres to the code of discipline and righteousness, would get its mind purified and get elevated by Him to the path of superior knowledge. Aacharya acknowledged the Vedic practices talked about in Meemamsa also, as a means which facilitated the adherence to righteous principles.
The greatness of Aacharya’s religion lies in the fact that it has accommodated at different levels and also endorsed the practices prescribed by Meemamsa, the concept of Maya of Buddhism and the principle of Ahimsa of Jainism.
All that I wanted to say was that Buddhism and Jainism, which did not acknowledge Eswara but accepting the Karma theory and prescribing dharmic code of conduct as a part of it, is like raising a building, without a foundation. In both Buddhism, which dismisses everything as a continuous run of false happenings and Jainism, which ends saying that nothing can be certainly determined either way, there is no clear explanation to the link between results and action and the arrangement which causes the cycle of samsara. Only Eswara is the acceptable explanation as the person administering the Maya lokha (World of Maya) and the giver of results to the karma.
Generally, a religion which does not have Eswara, does not appeal to the people at large.
III Values of Punyam and Paapam
Once a foreigner interested in the philosophy of Hinduism was waiting for Darshan of Mahaperiva ( Most revered Mahaswami) at Sri Madam to clarify his doubt. Shortly, he got his appointment and without wasting time, he put forth his question.
Swamiji, I understand all your concepts, value them but for one particular faith (i.e.) same soul taking various births, papa, punya being carried forward to the next births etc. Can you please make me comfortable on this aspect? Because, in all our religions, we get the reward for what we do in this birth only. (i.e.) if we are honest, God is pleased and blesses us with benefits and we are dishonest, we get punished by Him.
At this point, Periva asked him, whether he owns a car and if he could do a favour of collecting some statistical information within Kancheepuram using his vehicle. The guest readily agreed, at the same time wondering why his question was not answered spontaneously.
Please, Swamiji, go ahead, What is the service you expect me to do now?
Periva said, Please go around 10 maternity centres within Kancheepuram and collect the data of children born within the last 2 days – Child’s gender, health condition, parents name, status, educational qualification, time of birth.
The man said – Fine, this is nothing, – immediately rushed in his car like Lord Muruga goes in Thiruvilayadal and within a day he was back in the matam with exact statistics in front of Mahaperiva. He went through the statistics, about 15 children were born in 10 hospitals, 8 female and 7 male infants, out of which 3 children had malnutrition defects, 2 children were the first child of highly rich parents born in luxury hospitals, while 4 were children of coolie labourers who already had few children.
Maha Periva now looked at the gentleman and started asking few questions:
Do you think any of these children have been honest / dishonest within 2 days of their birth? Probably they could not even recognize their own mother. So, they have neither earned papa or punya in this birth.
According to your concepts, all these children should be living exactly identical to each other, but not so practically, some are ill, some are healthy, some are born to rich parents, some are born to poor parents. Remember all children born in the same day, same longitude, latitude, you can’t blame their horoscope which is going to be almost identical.
The gentleman was dumbfounded!
It is here the concept of previous birth erupts! All these children have taken their present birth according to their deeds (karma) and the resultant papa, punya which they have assimilated in their previous births.
Hara Hara Shankara Jaya Jaya Shankara
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IV Karma and planets
Towards Mahaperiyava
Every soul is driven towards a womb based on the karmic fruits of that soul. This is the ongoing process. Happiness and sorrows, success and failures, for everything we look up the sky for submitting our inabilities. This practice is prevailing from an ordinary man to the cream of elites in the society.
When everyone is looking up the sky for everything which implies that there is a mystic connection between the souls and sky. I will make you understand better by giving you the authentic information which is reflecting in our Vedic teachings.
We all know about the horoscope which rules the destiny of a person by virtue of its planetary position. Who decides the planetary position? In fact astrology is a part of our Vedic teachings. In a family the predictions and positions of a father are calculated based on the position of the Sun.
The same way future of the mother in the family is predicated by the position of moon. For our naked eye the sun is visible for all the thirty in a month whereas the visibility of the moon is only for twenty seven days in month. When all know the ladies are out of home due to their menstrual cycle for three days in a month.
This is an authentic proof that our destiny is driven by the planetary position in the sky. We all know during full moon day the sea will be rough and on new moons day the sea behaves calm and quiet. The same influence on human beings and nature too.
We all know that planets are in the sky including the sun and the moon. Even the so called “Yama Dharma ” and other gods, who are known as “Kala Mirthue” and “Akala Mruthyu” are only in the sky. Kala Mrityu is responsible for bringing the life of a soul to halt by taking the “Prana ” out of the body when the soul’s destiny is complete in this planet. Prana is responsible for the body to function through respiration.
Akala Mruthyu is responsible for taking the life of a body even before destined period of soul to live in this planet. For example accidents, natural calamities and many more things are part of Leela Vibhuthi. . Natural calamities and invisible adversities of life is a part of living in this Leela Vibhuthi in planet earth. In our earlier lessons, I am sure that you have been taught regarding Nithya Vibhuthi and Leela vibuthi .
How our karma of earlier Genma come in contact with us and starts driving our life?
Our good karma and bad karma are getting registered in our soul. When a soul leaves the body, the only thing which goes along with the soul is our karma good and bad. According to the karma this soul is driven towards a womb for taking up next birth.
When a soul is responsible for certain act then the goodness and badness of the act is classified and respective planets observes this act from a soul and register it in the planet. On certain well defined frequency the planet registration is always becomes a part of the particular soul. When a soul departs from a body and start its travel towards another birth the planet registration Pilots the soul towards a particular womb according to the karmic registration which already the planet possess.
When this soul takes a womb and grows as a child then through delivery that child comes in to existence. From this point onwards you can understand a full cycle of a karmic theory. The child grows to the level of an adult where he can think and acts by himself (attaining wisdom) then all his actions are come under cosmic audit.
All good and bad karma of the particular person is getting registered in the respective planets which are known as “Subha Grahangal” and Asubha Grahangal” means planets which will register good and bad karmas which will rule the horoscope of a person at the time of birth.
When a child is born then the planet that possesses the data’s of good and bad karma of a person takes their position and the life chart is prepared for the child which is known as pre destined life (Horoscope). This is the reason children born on the same day enjoys different living atmosphere. Some born as a child for the rich and some are born for the poor.
What is Karma? How it is classified as good and bad Karma?
Karma means actions. When an action is staged by a person, the classification of goodness or badness of the karma is classified according to our Vedic teachings. When an act is performed as per Vedic disciplines then that particular act is classified as good.
When act is performed contrary to the Vedic disciplines then that particular act is classified as bad. When this universe was created by the Brimhamam, simultaneously the formation of planets and its capabilities to classify as good and bad was also created.
The other entities like Yama dharma kala mirthue and Akala Mirthue and panja Boothangal also was created. When Brimhamam thought of creating this universe along with the planet earth, immediately the respective planets and other gods also were created and took their positions.
Likewise all four yugams and the number of year for each yugam were allotted at the same time of creation. As such there is no primordial for this act of Brimhamam and Brimhamam is the origin of everything. A doubt may surface in to your mind how a classification of Good and Bad of those yester years can be valid in this kaliyugam.
Please note one thing even the attitude and behavior of people in this kaliyugam were foresaw by the almighty by his Extradinory powers and based on the meticulously perceived perception the rules the life game was formulated.
Every soul is under strict vigil not to find fault with the soul but to ensure the cosmic actions are unbiased and impartial. The purpose of this meticulously planned exercise million years back is to take back the soul in its purest form and enable the soul to get dissolved in Brimhamam. Kindly note that we are all fractional state of Brimhamam.
Every soul enjoys the privileges and special powers of Brimhamam in its purest form. When a soul goes out of body then the soul becomes god by itself. The soul can become pure only when its karmic cycle is dismantled. The karmic account should become zero.
I feel it is time that I should stop with this so that you will be able to sustain the enriched knowledge and apply the same when you graduate further with forthcoming lessons.
V A Study of Selected Allusions in K.R. Srinivasa
V. Ch. N. K. Srinivasa Rao
A Study of Selected Allusions in K.R. Srinivasa Iyengar’s ‘Sitayana’
As an avid teacher and great admirer of Shakespeare, Milton and other great poets and with the ripe experience of studying Oriental as well as English Literatures over a long period, it is but natural that Srinivasa Iyengar’s writings are filled with many allusions. As such, Sitayana is richly allusive in more places than one.
In Book I, Canto I, Janaka conversing with Narada, philosophically refers to birth and death as the poles of existence and in lines reminiscent of Macbeth in Shakespeare, the poet describes life as a tale told by an idiot:
We swing between the poles of existence:
here at the nadir, a tale
by an idiot told, a race towards
the final embrace of Death;(Sitayana, P.4)
In Shakespeare’s Macbeth, the protagonist philosophises on the news of his wife’s death being brought to him:
Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage.
And then is heard no more, it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Macbeth utters these lines with a sense of resignation, born of despair while Janaka is a philosophical doubter.
In his reply Narada speaks about the trials and tribulations of human life on earth and in line reminiscent of Shelley, remarks that we fall on thorns again. The defeat of man is often caused by his own ego which vitiates all other virtues. Here Iyengar, an avowed admirer of Shakespeare, brings in the parallel of Hamlet by insinuation, makes Narada Shakespearean as he is made to say:
Sometimes, too, a singular ensemble
of excellent qualities,
Yet marred by a single mole of nature,
explosive in the context: (Sitayana, P. 5)
The above lines are modelled on what Hamlet speaks to Horatio in Act I, Scene IV, of his fellowmen, the Danes. Hamlet bemoans that all the virtues of the Danes stand cancelled as a result of this one vicious habit.
So oft it chances in particular men
That, for some vicious mole of nature in them,
As in their birth, wherein they are not guilty,
Since nature cannot choose his origin;
The descent of the Divine which is a typical Aurobindonian concept along with the reference to the Dawn which is ushered with the touch of the divine, is used by the poet to demonstrate the fact of Sita being an incarnation of the Divine destined to uplift Dharma for the benefit and betterment of humanity.
If only our age with its discontents
and proneness to suffering
could invoke the descent of the Divine
in a meltingly fair form,
that Radiance, the blessed Feminine,
that compassionate Power,
that symbol of Shakti as sufferance,
might usher in a New Dawn.
(Sitayana, P.12)
Prof. Iyengar was an avid teacher of Shakespeare and did not hesitate to quote such excerpts from his work which seem to suit the Indian mind with its Karma theory and belief of the Indian mind that God is the all-doer. The poet borrows from Hamlet, ‘There is divinity that shapes our ends rough hew them how he will’, an unshakable faith in the Divine which is far more casually accepted by the Indian mind than its Western counter part .
Some inscrutable divinity shapes
our ends, and we don’t see all;
(Sitayana, P.79)
In another brilliant stroke the poet takes an opportunity to compare Bharata’s predicament with Hamlet’s.
And perhaps, when things go awry, and fair
turns foul, and Time’s out of joint,
You’ll sustain me - silently and unseen
and that’ll be the higher bliss.
(Sitayana, P. 89)
The absence of Rama makes Bharata feel the burden and also feel that the time is out of joint in the absence of Rama, like Hamlet who feels the time as out of joint, troubled with the mysterious death of his father. The analogy is easy to work out, (although not easy to include in a work of art as it would not have suggested itself to anyone less than Prof. Iyengar) - as Bharata’s grief over the death of his father accentuated by his devotion to Rama finds its analogue in the poet’s mind, in Hamlet’s devotion to his dead father. The noble comparison confers greater glory on Shakespeare’s Hamlet as Valmiki is far more ancient and India has the Sanatana Dharma.
Sitayana seems to bear spiritual analogy to Sri Aurobindo’s Savitri. Prof. Iyengar was a great devotee of Sri Aurobindo. Aurobindo, we know, calls Savitri, ‘Legend as well as a symbol’. Savitri is no mere physical entity but a spark of the Magna Mater. Sita like wise is aptly described by the poet not merely as a woman, not merely as the beloved but as the all pervasive, all - inclusive Mother.
Prof. Iyengar creatively telescopes the literal meaning of Doll’s House with the sentiments which Ibsen voices in favour of the freedom of women.
This, my lord, this popular assumption
that we’re but Doll’s House creatures.
(Sitayana, P. 141)
In using capital letter for Doll’s House the writer intends both a reference to Ibsen and his creations, nevertheless retaining the general sense of the living creation as mere puppets in the hands of God. The poet hints that even from the times of Ramayana there was no dearth of women voicing their sentiments freely, as Sita castigates Rama as a woman in man’s image. Only Prof. Iyengar could have thought of the camparison between Valmiki and Ibsen, the former a sage and the latter, a social reformer.
Even Shakespeare in his Hamlet refers to the inward temple that grows wide withal –
For nature crescent does not grow alone
In thews and bulk, but as this
temple waxes,
The inward service of the mind and soul
Grows wide withal.
In lines reminiscent of the above the poet writes:
‘Isn’t the body the Temple of the lord?
Why, then, this mangling, maiming,
mutilation of God’s tabernacle?
what Vandalism is this.
(Sitayana, P. 198)
In another philosophical statement, Prof. Iyengar holds that the mind is responsible for the perversions of human behaviour:
All errors and perversions of human
behaviour must proceed from
the mind’s suggestions, vital impulses; (Sitayana, P. 199)
In this, he acts like other Hindus who believe that the mind is responsible for human bondage and human salvation:
Taking a clue from the well-known proverb, ‘all that glitters is not gold’, the poet makes use of the proverbial wisdom to illustrate the gulf between the apparent and real.
Glitter is not gold, and gold is not life,
and seeming is not being.
(Sitayana, P. 215)
The true quality of life is not to be measured by the clap-trap that goes with it, as mere glitter cannot be gold and life is not merely to be measured by physical grandeur. The true quality of life is often invisible and beyond more interpretations which base themselves upon superficial and luxuriant growth however abundant it might be.
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VI Thus, the question of “linear” versus “cyclic” time is an issue.’
This very concept of ‘Linear Time’ found its way into Islam, even though there was a significant section among the early Muslims, known as Mutazalites, who believed in ‘cyclical time’ and rational thinking. It was the Sufi Al-Ghazali who teamed up with the conservatives and completely demolished the rational spirituality in Islam around the 11th century. Even though Al-Ghazali propounded a concept of metaphysically broken Time, renewing itself every instant, but essentially killing off the spiritual strand of Islam that was close to Hindu thinking in Time beliefs. People like Mansoor Hallaj were persecuted and killed for believing in concepts close to the Sanatana Advaita (Ana-‘l-haq or I am the Truth is considered a variation of Aham Brahmasmi).
It is because of this notion of quasi-cyclical Time that the Indian notion of Karma-Saṃskāra inheres as an exercise of autonomy in temporal affairs of mankind. It is because of this that Hinduism carries unique sense of gratitude to the environment around them (the concept of Ṛna or debt) and treats life as a celebration. This is in contrast to Christianity that treats Life as a sin, and Islam that treats Life as a test for a good time in an eternal afterlife. The unique culture of treating the entire nature and living beings as manifestation of the Supreme comes from this belief in cyclical Time. Beliefs in Creationism and Linear Time are a direct negation of gratitude towards anyone else except the One creator, such as Yahveh, God, or Allah. In essence, culture and values are a byproduct of not just the geography, but also of Time belief.
The concept of Linear Time had its greatest validation in Newton’s theories, but General Relativity and the concept of spacetime has dealt it a body blow. The problem of time is sought to be resolved through integration of the Relative (very large) and Quantum (very small) phenomena through a Unified Field theory such as Quantum Gravity. This has not yet succeeded but Linear Time is under serious questions. This is a challenge to the religions that cast their lot with Linear Time. Do not, however, underestimate the flexibility and manoeuvrability of the Church, which recognized Galileo in 1992 (imagine), and supported Stephen Hawking’s model of singularity that mimics God.
Hinduism, on the other hand, has had no such problems at the doctrinal level. Problems of Hinduism lie more on its behavioral side with sectarian schisms, and exploitation of fault lines by its adversaries.
According to Dr. CK Raju, “Hinduism is scientific, because (a) its core notions of ātman and moksha depend upon the concept of quasi-cyclic time (b) which can be experimentally TESTED “here and now” by using the connection to a local “tilt in the arrow of time”, and testing for a tilt in the arrow of time, as explained in my books. The mark of a scientific theory is that it can be tested or refuted according to Karl Popper.”
To sum up, the belief in ātman and moksha is NOT a superstition but part of a viable scientific theory which needs to be tested experimentally (“physics”). But the belief in linear time or superlinear time is a superstition. That is, “reincarnation” is possible, but the post-Nicene Church notion of “resurrection” is a superstition (“metaphysics”).
Thank you K Rajaram IRS 26625
"And therefore, there must be an original sin and an original sinner.And therefore, there cannot be have been an original good deed and good doer."
--
Dmitri Semenov
Sane Sun
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Vichitra Thandava
Rajaram Krishnamurthy
Verses 14.10 to 14.18
रजस्तमश्चाभिभूय सत्त्वं भवति भारत ।
रज: सत्त्वं तमश्चैव तम: सत्त्वं रजस्तथा ॥14.10॥
rajas tamaś cābhibhūya sattvaṁ bhavati bhārata
rajaḥ sattvaṁ tamaś caiva tamaḥ sattvaṁ rajas tathā
O descendant of Bharata, sometimes the mode of goodness (sattva) becomes prominent by overpowering passion and ignorance. Sometimes passion (rajas) dominates, overpowering goodness and ignorance, and at other times, ignorance (tamas) prevails, overpowering goodness and passion.
When, in this body, all the senses get illuminated by knowledge, then one should know that goodness (sattva) has become prominent.
O best of the Bharatas, when the mode of passion becomes prominent, greed, excessive activity, the undertaking of many actions, restlessness, and intense desires arise.
O descendant of the Kurus, when the mode of ignorance increases, darkness, inactivity, negligence, and delusion arise.
यदा सत्त्वे प्रवृद्धे तु प्रलयं याति देहभृत् ।
तदोत्तमविदां लोकानमलान्प्रतिपद्यते ॥14.14॥
yadā sattve pravṛddhe tu pralayaṁ yāti deha-bhṛt
tadottama-vidāṁ lokān amalān pratipadyate
When one dies with predominance of sattva, that embodied soul attains the pure worlds of the wise who know the highest truths.
rajasi pralayaṁ gatvā karma-saṅgiṣu jāyate
tathā pralīnas tamasi mūḍha-yoniṣu jāyate
When one dies with predominance of rajas, they are reborn among those engaged in fruitive activities. Similarly, dying with predominance of tamas, one takes birth in the wombs of the deluded.
karmaṇaḥ sukṛtasya āhuḥ sāttvikaṁ nirmalaṁ phalam
rajasas tu phalaṁ duḥkham ajñānaṁ tamasaḥ phalam
It is said that action performed in the mode of sattva results in purity; action done in the mode of rajas results in misery; and actions performed in the mode of tamas results in darkness.
सत्त्वात्सञ्जायते ज्ञानं रजसो लोभ एव च ।
प्रमादमोहौ तमसो भवतोऽज्ञानमेव च ॥14.17॥
sattvāt sañjāyate jñānaṁ rajaso lobha eva ca
pramāda-mohau tamaso bhavato ‘jñānam eva ca
From the mode of sattva arises knowledge, from the mode of rajas arises greed, and from the mode of tamas arise carelessness, delusion, and surely ignorance as well.
ऊर्ध्वं गच्छन्ति सत्त्वस्था मध्ये तिष्ठन्ति राजसा: ।
जघन्यगुणवृत्तस्था अधो गच्छन्ति तामसा: ॥14.18॥
ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ
jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtta-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ
ऊर्ध्वम् (ūrdhvam) – upwards; गच्छन्ति (gacchanti) – go; सत्त्वस्था: (sattva-sthāḥ) – those situated in the mode of goodness; मध्ये (madhye) – in the middle; तिष्ठन्ति (tiṣṭhanti) – remain; राजसा: (rājasāḥ) – those in the mode of passion; जघन्य (jaghanya) – abominable; गुणवृत्तस्था: (guṇa-vṛtta-sthāḥ) – those under the influence of the modes; अध: (adhaḥ) – downwards; गच्छन्ति (gacchanti) – go; तामसा: (tāmasāḥ) – those in the mode of ignorance;
Those situated in the mode of goodness gradually go upward to the higher planets; those in the mode of passion live on the earthly planets; and those in the mode of ignorance, abiding in the lowest qualities, go down to the hellish worlds.
As discussed in the previous set of shlokas, this chapter of the Bhagavad Gita focuses on the intricate dynamics of the three gunas (modes) of material nature—sattva (goodness), rajas (passion), and tamas (ignorance). These gunas are the fundamental constituents of Prakriti (material nature) and influence every aspect of the embodied soul’s existence. Lord Krishna explains how these gunas compete among themselves for dominance within an individual and how they shape one’s mental states, actions, desires, and ultimate spiritual trajectory.
Influence of Food and Environment
The Chandogya Upanishad (6.5.4) states:
अन्नमयम् हि सोम्य मन:
annamayam hi somya manaḥ
The mind is made of the essence of what we eat.
This Upanishadic statement highlights that the quality of our mind depends significantly on the quality and nature of our diet. Pure, nutritious, and sattvic food helps cultivate a mind inclined towards clarity and balance. In modern parallels, it is often said in the West: “We are what we eat.” If one consumes rajasic or tamasic foods (excessively spicy, stale, processed, or harmful), the mind and senses become agitated or dulled accordingly.
Alongside food, the activities we engage in, the company we keep, and the media we consume influence our mental states. By consciously choosing sattvic influences (clean diet, serene surroundings, company of wise and spiritual people, study of sacred texts), we can tilt the internal balance towards goodness.
The Nine Gates and the Body as a City
The body has been compared to a city with nine gates (navadvāra-purī). These nine gates are the two eyes, two ears, two nostrils, the mouth, the genitals, and the anus. Through these “openings” the external world interacts with our inner consciousness. In Gita 5.13, Shri Krishna states:
सर्वकर्माणि मनसा संन्यस्यास्ते सुखं वशी ।
नवद्वारे पुरे देही नैव कुर्वन्न कारयन् ॥
sarva-karmāṇi manasā sannyasyāste sukhaṁ vaśī
nava-dvāre pure dehī naiva kurvann kārayan
The embodied being who has renounced all actions mentally lives happily in the city of nine gates (the body), neither acting nor causing action.
The implication is that while the soul temporarily resides in this body-city, it can maintain inner happiness if it renounces the sense of doership and attachment to results. This resonates with the concept of becoming a witness or an observer of the interplay of the gunas rather than being under their control like a puppet.
Shri Krishna explains in BG 14.11 that when all the doors or senses of the body are illuminated by knowledge, then we know sattva is predominant. Light entering all gates means the senses perceive truth as it is, unclouded by delusion. The soul, while dwelling within, recognizes its nature and the unity underlying existence.
Destinies After Death (BG 14.14–14.15)
Shri Krishna explains that at the time of death, the predominant guna determines the soul’s next destination. One’s final thoughts and mental state become the launching pad for the next birth. This aligns with the broader Hindu teaching that the consciousness at death shapes the future journey of the soul.
Sattva at Death: When leaving the body while predominantly in sattva, one attains pure worlds inhabited by those who have realized the Self or have at least acquired higher knowledge (uttama-vidām lokān, as the Gita states). The word “amalan” (pure, spotless) indicates that these higher realms or births offer excellent opportunities to continue on the spiritual path. Such births may place one among wise sages or in conditions favorable for spiritual advancement, making liberation more accessible.
Rajas at Death: Dying under the dominance of rajas leads one to be reborn among those attached to material rewards and ceaseless activity (karma-saṅgiṣu). Such births provide opportunities for worldly enjoyment, possibly even heavenly realms where desires can be temporarily fulfilled, but they do not inherently facilitate liberation. One remains bound to the wheel of action and reaction.
Tamas at Death: Passing away under the influence of tamas results in births in ignorant or deluded species. Krishna mentions “mūḍha-yoniṣu,” referring to animal births or lower forms of life where spiritual progress is nearly impossible. In such states, the soul experiences severe limitations, making it hard to break free from ignorance. The texts remind us that merely being human now does not guarantee remaining human in the next birth. The risk of regression into lower life forms is real if we cultivate tamas and fail to pursue spiritual goals.
As per Vedantic teachings, there are over 8.4 million species, and our soul can keep cycling through these various species endlessly. And being human is a rare opportunity for liberation. Thus, Shri Krishna emphasizes the seriousness of properly utilizing one’s human life.
Fruits of Actions in Each Guna
Shri Krishna states:
Sattva leads to purity (nirmalam phalam).
Rajas leads to suffering (duḥkham).
Tamas leads to darkness and ignorance (ajñānam).
Actions influenced by sattva purify the mind, bringing one closer to truth and ultimately reducing one’s karmic burden. Rajasic actions, done with desire and attachment, create mental agitation, dissatisfaction, and future bondage. Tamasic actions deepen the darkness and confusion, blocking spiritual growth.
The cycle is self-reinforcing. If we act under sattva, we become more sattvic; acting under rajas drags us deeper into restless pursuits; acting under tamas plunges us further into inertia and despair.
Knowledge from Sattva, Greed from Rajas, and Ignorance from Tamas
From each guna, certain qualities arise:
From sattva: knowledge and clarity arise.
From rajas: unending greed and dissatisfaction manifest.
From tamas: carelessness, delusion, and profound ignorance spring forth.
A sattvic person is naturally inclined towards scriptural study, meditation, and ethical conduct. A rajasic person finds it hard to even consider renouncing the fruits of actions (as advised in BG 2.47) because the mind constantly chases results. A tamasic person may barely recognize higher ideals or even see the point of spiritual life, being stuck in a cycle of confusion and inertia.
These verses do not merely impart theoretical knowledge. They warn and inspire the listener to cultivate goodness and strive to rise above even sattva into transcendence. Vedanta sees life as a ladder. While tamas is at the bottom and must be overcome, rajas can help us break free from stagnation, and sattva can guide us toward clarity and self-realization. Eventually, however, one must transcend all three gunas, recognizing oneself as the pure ātman, beyond material nature.
Practical Takeaways
The teachings given by Lord Krishna between 14.10 and 14.18 paint a roadmap for inner evolution. By understanding how the gunas operate and influence our actions, thoughts, and destiny, we gain a powerful tool for self-improvement:
We learn to assess our current state: Are we predominantly rajasic, restless, and materialistic? Are we sunk in tamas, unable to move forward spiritually? Or are we moving towards sattva, becoming clearer in mind and heart?
We realize the importance of conscious living, healthy eating, proper association, and spiritual practice to cultivate sattva.
We acknowledge the urgency in human life to strive upwards toward liberation rather than remain stagnant or regress downward into less conscious forms of existence.
We recognize the role of thought momentum: by deliberately choosing uplifting, sattvic thoughts and remembering God, we can break out of negative cycles and move toward higher consciousness.
This integrated understanding should inspire the seeker to apply these principles in daily life, transforming ordinary routines into opportunities for spiritual growth. Eventually, having ascended through the gunas to a platform of sattva, the dedicated aspirant can endeavor to transcend even sattva and directly realize the Supreme Reality (Brahman), beyond all dualities and modes.
Such is the essence and purpose behind these verses and their commentaries. They guide the soul from darkness to light, from restlessness to peace, and from limitation to infinite freedom.
Supreme Brahman is everything. He has two forms: Manifest and Unmanifest. All dualities such as good&bad, evil&virtue are indeed Supreme Brahman's MAYA.
Krishna describes Himself as Positive entities of all dualities, deliberately leaving negative entities. For Example,
vedānāḿ sāma-vedo ’smi
devānām asmi vāsavaḥ
indriyāṇāḿ manaś cāsmi
bhūtānām asmi cetanā
Of the Vedas I am the Sama Veda; of the demigods I am Indra, the king of heaven; of the senses I am the mind; and in living beings I am the living force [consciousness].
rudrāṇāḿ śańkaraś cāsmi
vitteśo yakṣa-rakṣasām
vasūnāḿ pāvakaś cāsmi
meruḥ śikhariṇām aham
Of all the Rudras I am Lord Shankara, of the Yakshas and Rakshasas I am the Lord of wealth [Kuvera], of the Vasus I am fire [Agni], and of mountains I am Meru. "Know that all states of being – be they of goodness, passion or ignorance – are manifested by My energy. I am, in one sense, everything, but I am independent. I am not under the modes of material nature, for they, on the contrary, are within Me." (Bhagavad Gita, 7.12) “Pra” prefix means “principal” and “Kriti” means “creation”. Thus the word convey the meaning “one that is principal factor for creation”. Some other derivations include: (b) “Pra” means “sattvik”, “Kru” means “rajasik” and “ta” means “tamasik” and the word “Prakriti” thus conveys the power of the three gunas. (c) “Pra” means “before” and “Kriti” means creation and so Prakriti means that which existed before creation.
Moreverses where both the opposites are HIMSELF. So casting there was bad and so a sin, presume that there is only negative without a positive to name it so. Also Karma has so many meanings and a sanskrit word has 30 meanings power se. Hence B G said KRU in a dextrous manner as:
Bg. 18.63
इति ते ज्ञानमाख्यातं गुह्याद्गुह्यतरं मया ।
विमृश्यैतदशेषेण यथेच्छसि तथा कुरु ॥ ६३ ॥
iti te jñānam ākhyātaṁ
guhyād guhya-taraṁ mayā
vimṛśyaitad aśeṣeṇa
yathecchasi tathā kuru
Thus I have explained to you knowledge still more confidential. Deliberate on this fully, and then do what you wish to do.
K Rajaram IRS 27625To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAJFXi14zpt9Lh69tpEn4Wwwa8TZgRiw8Tkbqo8iVDPgATBd7_Q%40mail.gmail.com.