‘Chariot’, ‘chariot-makers’ and ‘rathakāra’ in Joel Brereton’s introduction to the “Proceedings of the Fourth International Vedic Workshop”

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Megh Kalyanasundaram

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Dec 5, 2019, 1:04:53 AM12/5/19
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9-Note on Chariots.pdf

Megh Kalyanasundaram

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Jan 10, 2020, 9:46:47 PM1/10/20
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https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1215571391551946752.html

rniyengar

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Jan 11, 2020, 12:22:24 AM1/11/20
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The jarring title makes me respond.
Screen Shot 2019-12-04 at 1.09.20 PM

 F. Staal is quoted as ....

Rather, the chariot existed in the minds of chariot-makers.” (p. 17) 
 
"Vedas in Indian Culture & History" as depicted by F. Staal and several others; some listed in the Editorial Board of the so called international Vedic workshop exists in the minds or rather workshops of these modern rathakāras.

RN Iyengar

Megh Kalyanasundaram

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Jan 11, 2020, 12:28:33 AM1/11/20
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"...so called international Vedic workshop exists in the minds or rather workshops of these modern rathakāras...." 

Nice one that (at least in my book), Prof. Iyengar :-). 

Best,
Megh

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Megh Kalyanasundaram

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Feb 22, 2020, 12:43:48 AM2/22/20
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Megh Kalyanasundaram

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Feb 23, 2020, 3:13:11 AM2/23/20
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"

ASI joint director S K Manjul, who led the excavations at Sanauli, told TOI that carbon dating has now confirmed that the burials date back to 1900 BC. “Between 2005 and 2006, 116 burials were found while 10 more were discovered in the last two years, making it India’s largest known necropolis.” The burial pits had legged coffins along with systematically arranged vases, bowls and pots. One of the coffins was decorated with eight anthropomorphic figures.


A recent report submitted by the Birbal Sahni Institute of Paleosciences in Lucknow to the ASI had said that there are two C-14 (carbon dating) dates -- 3815 and 3500, with a margin of error of 130 years -- for the Sanauli site. It added, "Carbon dating marks this site as an earliest history of a warrior tribe in the Indian subcontinent (sic).""



Megh Kalyanasundaram

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Feb 23, 2020, 3:17:57 AM2/23/20
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"

The burials bear similarity to Vedic rituals, said officials. “What is startling is the impressions of cloth found on bodies that suggests purification of bodies similar to what we practice in Hindu religion,” said Manjul.


The joint director added that three chariots found at the site “have a fixed axle linked by a long pole to the small yoke” and were run by a pair of animals. 

“The size and shape of the chariots indicate they were pulled by horses. The axle, chassis and wheels show similarities to contemporary chariots,” he said"

Megh Kalyanasundaram

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Mar 6, 2020, 11:00:47 AM3/6/20
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L Srinivas

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Mar 13, 2020, 10:20:26 AM3/13/20
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This is very interesting. Thanks very much for sharing.

A curiosity question: what relation do the Sinauli finds have with the so called Sintashta chariot burials from the Chelyabinsk province in Russia? The Sintashta chariot burials have been dated by the archaeologist to 15th to 17th century BC by archaeological methods and to 18th to 20th century BC by radio carbon dating. It seems then the antiquity of these two widely separated sites works out to be roughly the same, per carbon dating methods. The Sintashta archaeologist V F Gening too has made use of Vedic textual material to interpret the finds in the site. The gap in space between Chelyabinsk and Baghpat need hardly be stressed.

Is it possible for you to give a layman's summary of what this means archaeologically, without getting into what language the authors of these two cultures may have spoken.

Thanks,

Srini
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Megh Kalyanasundaram

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Mar 14, 2020, 6:35:59 AM3/14/20
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Welcome, Srinivas-ji.  As you may have noticed, my (Dec 4, '19) post was a specific response to some statements of Dr. Brereton. 

With regard to this portion of your ask—"what this means archaeologically"—I cannot think of a more substantive response than sharing this video (of a presentation on Aug 2nd 2019 from the conference Sarasvati - A paradigm shift in Indology (University of Delhi, Aug 2-3 2019)) in which 'Dr. Sanjay Manjul presents his recent findings unearthed during excavations at Sanauli, Baghpat, including possibly the largest necropolis of the chalcolithic period and a highly sophisticated material culture.' [Portions within ' ' from the description of video in Youtube].

Best,
Megh

PS: While a qualified archaeologist (and hence not a layman) is explaining it, a layman (that is, me) could grasp most of it. 

Megh Kalyanasundaram

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Feb 20, 2021, 1:49:29 AM2/20/21
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