sandhyavandanam

[Abhijit Todkar]

Do shaivaites perform sandhyavandanam?If yes does anyone have the procedure and the mantras?

[Abhijit Todkar]

Do Shaivaites perform Sandhyavandanam? If yes then can anyone forward to me their procedure?

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Those who perform the samskara of Upanayana Sandhyavandana is performed. The procedure or mantras might vary slightly depending on the Veda one follows. I don't know about any vaishnavaite shaivaite or Sakata Sandhyavandana

If by shavaites you mean those who don't have the tradition of upanayana may not perform sandhyavandana.

There is enough information available on the web about Sandhyavandana

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 4:42 PM, Abhijit Todkar <abhi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Do shaivaites perform sandhyavandanam?If yes does anyone have the procedure and the mantras?

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[Dr BVK Sastry]

Namaste

 

The question is a mix up and messy understanding  between   ‘Veda –Guidance for ‘Spiritual / Yoga routines’ as ‘Brahma / Brahmana – Karma ( - A consequent commitment of a Samskara) ’  and  < Faith-Community practices / Sampradayas, to show a social belongingness by practice - appearences > .

 

 

A.     On < Do shaivaites perform sandhyavandanam?   >    

 

1.   < Some Shaivites, who consider themselves as ‘  Orthodox Veerashaiva Brahmanas and Vedadyayi’s do perform ‘Vedic Sandhyavandanam’ with a flavor of ‘Shiva Devotion’ and imagery association; similar to the Vaishnavites who do perform  Sandhyavandanam with a ‘Narayana –Devotion and imagery association’.  So does the <Shaakta’s ; Gaanapatyas and Sauras !.

 

2.  Veda Guidance is for ‘Varna’ status person and is a prescribed practice injunction ( = Vihita Karma) .  Vedas  have nothing to offer as flavors and variations of ‘Sandhya-Vandanam’ by faith-God- Guru flavors.  

 

What if a  Varna person violates this guidance ? ( vihita-karma - akaraNe PratyavAyah).

 

 Vedas are not going to punish a violator  like a ‘ God/ Goddess (Devataa)   who would curse ( = Shaapa /Aprasaada)  the individual who is misdoing’ and ‘ reduce the  benefit  due to displeasure’.    

 

Nor Vedas would grant a special ‘boon (vara) for a regular performer of Sandhya. 

 

Why then should one be a stickler to this practice ?

 

The answer is to  ‘ Keep a daily  Spiritual Fitness for Upliftment =  ‘Yogayataa- rakshana’ for ‘Adhyatma Jnana –Nityatvam’.

 

Why flavor  Vedic Sandhyavandana practices with faith-colorations  ?  There is a ‘Taste’ difference in eating Plain rice for sustenance and the ‘Vegetable fried rice’ for taste !  Wearing a plain white saree is different from wearing a design printed saree. The cloth  and the design printed are not easy to separate.

 

3.  ‘ Sandhya-Vandanam’ is technically a plurality of ‘Yoga- practices, a bundled sequenced Yogas.  It is guarded by the practices of  the Highest of the Varna Category’  and with the ultimate goal set as ‘ Parameswara Preetyartham  / ‘Dhee –prachodanaa / Brahma –Medha Siddhi’.

 

 These words are loaded with a plurality of meaning and defy any simple translation.  

 

Sandhyavandanam is unlike any other ‘ Ishta- Kamya Samkalpa’ = Speciifc desire seeking and personal want fulfilling activity like a ‘Vrata, yajna, prayaschitta..’.    

 

4. Sandhyavandanam , as  ‘Yoga’  is an ‘Anu-Shaasanam’ = Custom prescription ( =Shaasanam)  in a CONTEXT AFTER a Due deliberation and Examination (= Anu)  ( like answering the ‘anubandha chatushtaya’:  Why, Who, When, How, …questions for each seeker). As ‘Custom prescription’, one sees the streamlined prescription of Sandhya –practice system by ‘Veda’ , by ‘Varna – Ashrama ’ and by ‘ Samskara’ -  and several other critical factors.

 

 An analysis of each individual by these checklists , are provided in ‘Dharma-Shaastra’ as a preparation for the ‘ proper initiation to Sandhya-Vandanam’.  A total application of these factors explains the diversity of ‘Sandhya vandanam’ practices seen around us. This analysis, when completed, yields the final output on the total structure and scope of Sandhya-Vandanam; giving What mantras are to be used, in what sequence, what form of the deity needs to be worshipped.. et al.

 

What is seen in practice of current period,  is a serious violation of this ‘Sandhyaa-vandana Anushaasana Paddahti’. This is a result of poor and inadequate identity understanding of ‘Varna –Status’ before administering and authenticating entry to the portal of ‘Vedas’. And of course, bad understanding of the ‘Samskrutham: Language of the documents of Tradition.    

 

The ‘ praticum of Sandhya-Vandana Samskara and Practice  is to be arrived at and understood under the totality of ‘ Gruhya Sutras and Dharma –Shastras’  and  analyzing ‘ individual requirements ‘  case by case basis.  Sandhya vandanam practice  needs an annual audit and update through the review system of ‘ Upaa-karma’ (= Annual Thread Changing program, a time to review and make course correction in  ‘Brahma-Karma /Brahmana-Karma Practice).  This has ended up as a farcical  practice of ‘ New Thread wearing’, not understanding why the old thread was worn in the first instance.

 

 The blind-follow- blind method of following  ‘ (Fore/ Grand- ?)-Fathers method (?) of Sandhya-mantras, by son’  needs a serious review!  The son /daughters needs through Sandhya-Vandanam are different from the Father/ Mothers needs: Exactly like the Dress and food   by  Size and Quantity. In this sense, Sandhya-Vandanam is an evolving Practice of Yoga –Guidance and Practice. It is not a freezed system for all years same –from day one to end.

 

If the ‘Acarya’ fails to  make the Parents /Vatu understand and educate on  these aspects of ‘Sandhya-vandanam’ as ‘Yoga’; and worst, substitutes it by ‘Simplified Systems of Convenience’ limited to wearing the ‘threads to tie the key and scratch the back’, it will be doing no better than the sharvilakas use of the ‘Brahma Sutra, as a measuring thread to cut open the wall for a thieves entry’.    ( Cf. Shudraka’s Mruccha Katika).

 

5. When Vedas do not provide a ‘Faith based classification’ as ‘Shaivites /Vaishnavites /Gaanaapatyas..’, ; and all the ‘Varnas are given a universal injunction ( aadesha)  to perform Sandhya-Vandanam, the right thing is to find out what and how of ‘ putting in to practice’ the injunction.

 

 This aspect is personal fit; and is like the ‘ best fit of an undergarment ( Rahasyam, Gopaneeyam, Guhyam) ’ that suits ones needs, aspirations  and comfort. It is  not meant for public debate and disclosure.

 

The diversity of practice does not matter; The conformity to be compliant with Injunction of Vedas is what does matter.

 

 It would be worthwhile as a research topic for some one to investigate what was ‘prescribed practice for a Shudra’ and method –mantras  to do Sandhya-Vandanam’ according to Vedas. IF ‘Shudras’ are having ‘Gotras’, how can they be missing a ‘Sandhya-Vandanam’ system ? and be violating  Vedic injunction?    The so called ‘Shudras’ who are ‘Fourth Varna’, some of whom could be   ‘Rishis’ having a ‘Veda –Darshana’  <Aitareya Rishi :  associated with Aitareya Brahman and Aitareyopanishad (related to Rig-Veda); Ailush Rishi  mentioned in (Aitareya Brahman 2.19)> ;     Manu Smriti 10.65  pointing to intra-varna movements (Brahmana can become Shudra and Shudra can become Brahmana; Kshtariyas and Vaishyas can also change their Varnas). Read this with ( 2-104, 2-168, 2-172, 4-245). What happens to Sandhyavandanam in such intra-varna movements ?

 

And that opens up the question: What is ‘Veda’ in relation to <  Shiva, as understood by the Shaivites’ !  - Would  Shiva –Rudra be a Tribal chief wielding ‘  trident, and leading a bandit team’   OR Shiva –Rudra is Supreme Divine.  

 

Summing up, the  response: IF  < Shaivites> accept and hold to the statement that ‘ Vedas are the very embodiment of Shiva’ ( Vedah Shivah – Shivo  Vedah  ),   then better they learn to perform ‘Sandhya-Vandanam’ to keep their own Vedic Varna Identity as ‘ Noble Shudras = Arya Shudra’.?!

 

Same thing applies to Vaishnavites , if they firmly believe that ’Vedas’ are the ‘breath and body’ of ‘ Parama Purusha Mahavishnu’.   Shiva is no enemy of Narayana .

 

B.  On < If yes does anyone have the procedure and the mantras   >

The answer is < YES>;  the procedure and the mantras may be sought by the < Traditional Gurus of Shaivite Schools, guiding the  communities.  This would make further sense only if one knows how to separate and see the ‘Core of Vedic Sandhya-vandanam’  and the ‘ Sampradaya Flavors which serve as a Add- on’.

 

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Dear Sri Abhijitji,

From your question, I get an impression that you are interested in knowing the procedure of sandhyāvandanam for you to follow.

If I am right, can you provide me more details about the specific Shaivaite sect of which you would like to know the procedure of sandhyāvandanam?

Virashaiva people who have iṣṭalingadhāraṇa do not consider sandhyāvandanam as important as iṣṭalingārchana.

Shiva advaita followers perform sandhyāvandanam as per the smārtapaddhati only.

ārādhyaśaiva Brahmins  too perform sandhyāvandanam .

If you can provide more background , it may be helpful to help you with more pointers.

Best,

On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 4:42 PM, Abhijit Todkar <abhi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Do shaivaites perform sandhyavandanam?If yes does anyone have the procedure and the mantras?

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

[Sivasenani Nori]

Dr. Sastry ji

Namaste. You wrote:

....

The ‘ praticum of Sandhya-Vandana Samskara and Practice  is to be arrived at and understood under the totality of ‘ Gruhya Sutras and Dharma –Shastras’  and  analyzing ‘ individual requirements ‘  case by case basis.  Sandhya vandanam practice  needs an annual audit and update through the review system of ‘ Upaa-karma’ (= Annual Thread Changing program, a time to review and make course correction in  ‘Brahma-Karma /Brahmana-Karma Practice).  This has ended up as a farcical  practice of ‘ New Thread wearing’, not understanding why the old thread was worn in the first instance.

I wonder if you have any pointers in Saastra which led you to conclude as above or other positions arrived at; or is it a holistic analysis and a view on what ought to be?

Regards

N Siva Senani

--

[Venkatakrishna Sastry]

Namaste

On <   I wonder if you have any pointers in Saastra which led you to conclude as above or other positions arrived at; or is it a holistic analysis and a view on what ought to be?  >

1. Yes, it is a holistic analysis, based on what the texts say, what I have seen as living practice undergoing mutation and a  pointer to course correction for the community on < Hoped expectation on what it ought to be> ; and more so  for 'Vaidika Purohita Training'. This is a status review. This is also a rebuttal on inaccurate interpretation of ' Core Traditional Thought related to  Upaakarma for  Sandhyavandanam -Annual Audit for renewal and recharge'. This is taking in to account the slide down of practices seen in community as 'Corrupted Practice' leading to 'distorting internal soul of Varna-Identity'.  ( Kuryaat anyat, na vaa kuryaat, maitro Brahmana uchyate : Manu Smriti)

For reference sourcing,  Take any upaakarma prayoga book and read the  'samkalpa' that precedes the ' Nootana Yajnopavita Dharana' and 'Brahma Karma Prayoga'. The flavors of Saivite and Vaishnavite -Shaakta et al  does not change the scenario, the rule, standards or the goal.

    My statement is based on  the clear textual statement of authority  in  'Mantras and Vidhis'  prescribed for EACH VEDA recommended ' Upaakarma' Prayoga .  I am of the opinion that the ' Prayoga texts'  do provide a holistic guidance on ' Veda-Practicum' ;  they are extremely accommodative and considerate for  the social dynamics  and economic scenarios. 

    What ' Upaakarma' needs in terms of ' material needs, for one day in a year,  is a few liters of water, some darbha grass, some fruits and flowers, some yajnopavitams, and havan samagri.  Rest is all 'Chants'. Of course, TIME is the premium issue along with personal commitment to stay to the rule book and practices.  A whole one year time is given to pursue the upaakarma commitments (samvatsara kruta dosha prayachittartham)   to help and be helped by the Vedas (  It is the time gap between  Vedaarambhana- Upaakrutaa vai vedaha - utsrushtaa vai vedah) between these  audits.

When  Prayoga texts direct the 'Acharya /(Brahmana -?) community to observe ' Upaakarma Vidhi' by Rik, Yajus, Saama  and Atharva veda specificities,  it is a clear  pointer to the ' Dharma-Shaastra - Prayoga' position. What ought to be used for audit.

When it comes to ' Practice', the social dynamics cause differences in implementation and ' preferential choice by the individuals'. 

In the early period (  and by that I mean even as late as and up to 1990  which I have seen in my own close circles, ; it may be there even now in some special Gurukuls and Veda -Patha Shaalas),  the Rig-Veda upakarma was conducted specifically on 'Shrvana nakshatra) and only for Rigveda teams; And ' Shraavana- Poornimaa' for Yajurveda teams; and some other preferred prescribed days for the Saama-Vedins.    

   The rule was strict. The ' Vedanta flavor 'Mathas, the Gurus, the Jyotisha teams, the space providing Temple authorities' have absolutely no scope to interpret or influence or change what is already in the prayoga texts. ' The ' Upaakarma' vidhi is prescribed by  'Varna -Veda -Samskaara'  factors using when a 'Stellar combination and a lunar tithi/ masa occurs. On which none of us have any control.

On the next probable question why upaakarma on a specific day / nakshatra, the question is to be answered by the 'Sutra-kaaras /Rishis'. I am not competent enough to address it.

Currently, when the ' Personal Vedic Renewal process ( = Upaakarma)  has become a Community Collective  Group Regimentation Ritual (Saamoohika Karma ?!) the 'Conducting Acharya handles the 'Team'   in the   Time-constraint and Space Constraint of ' performing place like 'Temple'.  This scenario does not help to address ' individual needs', meet the standards set by Rule books and  'generate  enough service charges for the conducting scholar of Vedas. This is lack of motivation to conduct the 'veda -vihita vidhi' in its appropriate way as prescribed. The net result : Ritual to Keep Appearances', with stress on 'Aakaara minus Aachaara-Vichara  to back the Samskaara'.

 So the individual fruits ( The individual 'brahmanas'/ Varnas -  with 'veda' specificity -   like  the specific fruit category-identity of  of mango, the banana) loose  their  unique identity to the Collective  Identity   when placed in a ' Fruit basket (Brahmana Samooha) along with other (fruits of similar / dissimilar  nature :: sa-jaateeya / vi-jaateeya) in performing a ' Personal Private Samskara' in a 'Public Collective way' .  In Rajiv Malhotras terms, this is 'Digestion and Internal Distortion -dilution'.

All this for what ? The ' Cost and Effort saving for comfort at House'   - For one day??!! to provide support for a Vedic scholar for one day??  The economics of 'Brahmana - Purohita Vrutti'  :: Professional living and life style of 'Brahmana Vedic Scholar' depends upon the  ' Consumers of this service in community'.  Consideration of  Individual Varna Community consumers by factors of  Economics of operation has lead to cutting corners in administration of  'enlightenment samskaras' (= Brahma-Karma and Brahmana Karma), like the 'Shortened and distorted modes of 'Sandhyavandanam, substitution of Sandhyavandanam by ' temple visit and prayers'... et al.  

What would Dharma -Shastra /Prayoga books advocate  on  such distress mode practices ?  It is for each individual family and internal community to make a self-audit : Whether they are in  ' real distress mode to invoke  and -self-prioritize the compliance to Vedic Guidance ' ?  Should  Cost reduction mode- No stress and commitment inside the family and personal heart / head to perform  a 'Veda -Compliant Samskara'  overpower and block ones own 'Swa-Dharma' for 'Atma-Kalyana /Vishva  Kalyana' .    

Ending,

Should one follow a two or more century old ' Prayoga' talking about hoary antique 'Veda / Gruhya /Dharma Sutra' texts written in Samskrutham ? and struggle to retain the 'Varna -Identity Appearance ' by 'display of half naked upper body with decorative marks and tarnished Sacred threads?

   OR

Should one make efforts to make a 'Critical (?) Edition of the ' Prayoga works'  that best suit the  ' Digital Payment ' mode in  the 21st  century ' prescribing  Ultramodern Pizza Berger naivedya prescribtions with aerated drinks for aachamanam' ? May be one needs a ' Boden Initiative' to fund such work ?!

It all depends upon who wants the 'Varna Identity'? Who is ready to research and take lead in the ' Veda -Practicum beyond Temples, Ashrams and Missions' to  'University and Communities'. 'Artha moolau Dharma-Kamau' is Chanakya guidance for such endeavor. Getting Grants for studies is the summing up in current idiom.

Regards

BVK Sastry  

 

--

 

Regards

 

Dr. B V Venkatakrishna Sastry
(G-Mail)

 

 

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Dear Prof. Shastri,

It would be useful if you can sum up you points and post. Please restrict you post to five to six sentences maximum per post. You can always quote articles and books to substantiate you views.  Please post in a manner which is comprehensible to all for quick reading. I could not understand most of what you said. Sorry I am with limited intellectual capacity may be others have grasped the entire contents.

Thanks

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Venkatakrishna Sastry
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 11:39 AM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} sandhyavandanam

 

Namaste

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Regards

 

Dr. B V Venkatakrishna Sastry
(G-Mail)

 

 

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[Sathya Narayanan N]

Hi abhijit,

Yes. If upanayana samskaara isperformed. Tri Kaala Sandhyavandana is must.

For example, Saivites in Tamilnadu and around perform it.

Dikshitaars of Chidambaram or Shivacharyaas perform it.

The procedure varies across Vedas/ Desha/Sutra/ Darshana. Also sometimes based on the guru.

You have to be specific when you ask for the procedure.

regards,

Sathya

[K S Kannan]

I presume Dr.BVKShastry has a lot more to say:

for, his post begins with "1.", [just] the first point, that is.

Either he has forgotten to set forth the next points - "2.", "3." etc.,

or, what is more likely, 

they are going to come in his future message(s), 

perhaps in instalments.

Well, some people adore freedom of expression,

while some people admire conciseness and preciseness.

Is it right, or has anybody the right, 

to call either wrong?

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Regards

 

Dr. B V Venkatakrishna Sastry
(G-Mail)

 

 

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[श्रीमल्ललितालालितः]

I think that asking one to stay within limit of 5 or 6 sentences is as useless and bad as a post expanding to 10 pages. It will not give you enough space to express properly. Long posts have other problem, which are mentioned later.

By the way, I didn't feel any problem in reading and understanding. But, you can't grasp whole picture of thought and flow in such a long post, which makes it useless anyway. Please, note that we don't treat emails as important as a philosophical text in Sanskrit, so it is difficult to dedicate much time to understand it.

One more thing,

I was replying to the last mail by k s kannan. I expanded to see how many posts were quoted. I found that Ajit G's post was there, who had quoted shastri's post who had quoted shivasenAnI's post, who had quoted shstri's post....upto original post.

If possible please avoid quoting useless things. Our laziness and Google's habit to hide quoted post (like ... three dots) is culprit here.

[Ajit Krishnan]

namaste,

Aghora Shivachariar, in his voluminous 'kriyākramadyotikā' addresses the nitya karmas (including the sandhyāvandana) in the first volume. I can scan and send the relevant portion (in grantha script), if it would be useful.

sasneham,

    ajit

 

On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 6:12 AM, Abhijit Todkar <abhi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Do shaivaites perform sandhyavandanam?If yes does anyone have the procedure and the mantras?

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[Ashok Aklujkar]

> On Dec 13, 2016, at 11:46 AM, श्रीमल्ललितालालितः <lalitaa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >If possible please avoid quoting useless things [from earlier posts].<

I too would like to stress this one more time.

Idiosyncratic or popular (newspaper-like) transliterations should also be avoided as far as possible. The system established since the International Congress of Orientalists in 1872 (as far as I know) may not be perfect, but it is important to stick to it especially if computer-searching of words is to be made more efficient.

a.a.

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

I agree Posts should not be toped as Far as possible

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ??????????????????
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 1:16 AM
To: bvparishat
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} sandhyavandanam

 

I think that asking one to stay within limit of 5 or 6 sentences is as useless and bad as a post expanding to 10 pages. It will not give you enough space to express properly. Long posts have other problem, which are mentioned later.

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[Dr BVK Sastry]

Namaste

 

On Précising and restricting the response:

 

A)       If questions can be straight simple, simplified responses can be attempted.

 

           Prof. KSK wrote < Well, some people adore freedom of expression, while some people admire conciseness and preciseness.  Is it right, or has anybody the right, to call either wrong?  >  

 

           It all depends on whether one is looking to satisfy their ‘ Question-Hunger’  for a ‘quick snack  like quick reading’  Or a ‘ Full Five course Menu for a leisurely enjoyment of food delicacy’.  ‘Band-aid’ model answers  may  not be sufficient to address  Battle: Sanskrit scenario missiles in the form of ‘ innocent-questions’.   When complex question needs  a group mode response,  the precision of expression gets compromised to keep the communication flowing, easy and comprehensible in ‘ current idiom’  yet reflect the  textual precise position. It is an option for readers to choose how they desire to engage with such responses.  The ‘ three word –one liner  Starting question in  Brahma Sutra (1-1-1) ’ has been  incessantly, intensely debated for pros, cons, compromises, condemnations  over three plus millennia ! in volumes of writings and by brilliant minds of tradition. And 1800 lines of Gita- narrative dialogue’  is used as an ‘ equal opportunity -equally convincing ’ authoritative exposition of this one liner.  

 

A) On  Summarizing as briefly as possible the thread discussion:

 

The Primary question on Dec 12, 2016 - Abhijit Todkar reads:    - Do shaivaites perform sandhyavandanam?If yes does anyone have the procedure and the mantras?

 

The summary response is :     यदि शैवाः (१) वेदः शिवो, शिवो वेदः,  इति मन्यन्ते( २) वेदादेशः शिवाज्ञा इति मन्यन्ते,   तदा वेदोक्त सन्ध्यावन्दनं तेषां विहितमेव  ||   सन्ध्यावन्दन-अनुष्ठान-प्रकारः स्व-गुरुमुखेन ज्ञातव्यः, स्व कुल -संप्रदायः ज्ञातव्यः इति दिक्  |  

 

This is the sanskrit version of my first response which read  <Summing up, the  response: IF < Shaivites> accept and hold to the statement that ‘ Vedas are the very embodiment of Shiva’ ( Vedah Shivah – Shivo  Vedah),   then better they learn to perform ‘Sandhya-Vandanam’ to keep their own Vedic Varna Identity.>

 

B)  The legacy of  expanded answer to the primary question goes back to :  December 12, 2016 ripping open the response scope to <   - Those who perform the samskara of Upanayana Sandhyavandana is performed. The procedure or mantras might vary slightly depending on the Veda one follows. I don't know about any vaishnavaite shaivaite or Sakata Sandhyavandana. If by shavaites you mean those who don't have the tradition of upanayana may not perform sandhyavandana. There is enough information available on the web about Sandhyavandana.   And Sivasenani’s follow up < on BVK Sastry's post : < I wonder if you have any pointers in Saastra which led you to conclude as above or other positions arrived at; or is it a holistic analysis and a view on what ought to be?  >

 

 Regards

BVK Sastry

 

 

====================

[K S Kannan]

As in kāvya, so in loka

(or is it vice versa?): 

prolixity is not always a demerit,

nor conciseness a constant merit.

Guṇa-s can become doṣa-s,

and doṣa-s, guṇa-s. 

We can rather go by the dicta of Mammaṭa and Vyāsa -

M (definition of doṣa) : mukhyārtha-hatir doṣaḥ.

V : iṣṭam hi viduṣām loke samāsa-vyāsa-dhāraṇam.

Little to dispute if the above norms are grasped in their right spirit and well assimilated 

- by writers as well as readers; 

and despite Bhāmaha (dhī-khedāyaiva vistaraḥ)

and Shakespeare ("Brevity is the soul of wit"). 

(Hope this is no expatiation upon the merits of concision!)

KSKannan

[Sivasenani Nori]

Dr. Sastry ji

Namaste.

Thank you for your response. I would like to submit a counterview regarding length of posts. Many on BVP are academicians; most of the others are voracious readers. So most of the members are used to heavy reading, by profession or reading or both. As such, length of posts would not be a issue for the silent majority - definitely not for yours truly.

Coming to the res, if you are referring to the practice in some communities of doing the upAkarma collectively, that is not always the case. Where we live (Serene County, Hyderabad), I usually see the Tamil Brahmins congregate in a place and do it collectively with one priest, whereas the Telugu Brahmins do it at home usually without a priest. Further, if the emphasis is on understanding the spirit of the Vidhi, I have no hesitation in agreeing with you - for tradition is consistent that mere learning of mantras by rote is of no use. There is indeed a case for adding some mantras or some other parAyaNa for particular individuals. This is usually done by Guru, but it is not treated as a part of Sandhyavandanam, which is kept short.

However, if by review and revision we talk about introducing new practices, or changing AchAra in the name of progressive practices (example: being half-naked is not "good", therefore we will use normal, clean clothes), I submit that it is a slippery slope. The driver of change with respect to AchAra seems to "avoidance of extreme inconvenience, or public bad", rather than what would

be good, because anAyAsa has the sanction of Gautamasmriti as a necessary perquisite (AtmaguNa) for performing dharma.

Finally, even if we say that there is to be a review, there is nothing in the saMkalpa etc. that I recall which makes upAkarma the candidate for that. Anyway, I will look at it once more. If the upAkarma talks about sins accumulated over a year; in sandhyAvandanam the frequency of washing off sins is much more - यदह्नात् कुरुते पापं तदह्नात् प्रतिमुच्यते यद्रात्रियात् कुरुते पापं तद्रात्रियात् प्ततिमुच्यते ...,  यदह्ना पापमकार्षं मनसा वाचा हस्ताभ्यां पद्भ्यामुदरेण ..., यदुच्छिष्टमभोज्यं यद्वा दुश्चरितं मम सर्वं पुनन्तु मामापः ... ; so that might not be sufficient to say that upAkarma is the chosen rite for review.

Regards

N. Sivasenani

[Ravi Shankar]

Respected sir,

Kindly inform whether the soft copy of agora sivachariyar work available for downloading

With regards,

Ravi Shankar 

Sent from my iPad

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[Dr BVK Sastry]

Namaste

 

Keeping brief:

 

1. Thanks for the ‘ observation on length of response mails’.

 

2.  ‘Veda vihita Karmas (= Upakarma)  have a core and cultural –local wrap. The cultural wrap can be at variance to achieve the intention of ‘ Core’.  Even the ‘Samkalpa’ elaboration has the cultural wrap along with religious, philosophical overtones !  And for practical purposes, the ‘ prasadam’ variation is an interesting study !  The only explanation is ‘ we do like this, because, they used to do like this’.

 

3.  On ‘Review and revision’  and slippery slope’ -   ‘ anAyAsa ( Comfort of operation to avoid  extreme inconvenience or public bad) ’  is not the same as ‘ Alasya ( convenience of lethargy).  anAyAsa is welcome; Aalasya needs careful review.

 

4.  On upAkarma as an annual audit, may be I have drawn from Brahmakarma samucchaya : Local variation here, which refers to ‘Samvatsara Kruta dosha Prayaschittartham’ …’ adheetaanaam Chandasaam saveeryatvaya..’.  IF the clothe is daily washed, there is no need for an annual dry-wash.   Other wise….     

 

The purpose of ‘ Aghamarshana’  and ‘Virajaa Homa as a part of upAkarma (seen lately) – is an interesting ‘ Prayoga issue for review’.

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sivasenani Nori
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 11:20 AM
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} sandhyavandanam

 

Dr. Sastry ji

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[Vidyasankar Sundaresan]

On Thursday, December 15, 2016 at 3:53:27 AM UTC-5, Dr.BVK Sastry wrote:

 .....

4.  On upAkarma as an annual audit, may be I have drawn from Brahmakarma samucchaya : Local variation here, which refers to ‘Samvatsara Kruta dosha Prayaschittartham’ …’ adheetaanaam Chandasaam saveeryatvaya..’.  IF the clothe is daily washed, there is no need for an annual dry-wash.   Other wise….     

 

The purpose of ‘ Aghamarshana’  and ‘Virajaa Homa as a part of upAkarma (seen lately) – is an interesting ‘ Prayoga issue for review’.

Dear Prof. Sastry,

It is news to me that virajaa homa is being used by some in upaakarma prayoga-s now. Could you elaborate?

Best regards,

Vidyasankar

[Venkata Sriram]

Dear Sastry Ji,

On upAkarma day, we do कामोऽकार्षीत् मन्युरकार्षीत् mantra japam.  The next day, which happens to be गायत्री प्रतिपद्,, we do sahasra gAyatri japa.  However, one should perform gAyatri havan with 1000 Ahutis but owing to time constraints and official pressures, I do sahasra gAyatri japa as a pratyAmnAya. 

I never heard of virajA hOma on upAkarma.  This is done prior to taking sanyAsa.

regs,

sriram

[Dr BVK Sastry]

Namaste

 

On < It is news to me that virajaa homa is being used by some in upaakarma prayoga-s now . Could you elaborate >   :  

 

Specific Response: 

 

a)    I have stated what I have seen / seeing in the period (1990 onwards – in and around  Bengaluru) as the ‘practical of upaakarma’ with  the use of ‘ Virajaa Homa mantras’, coming as a  part of  ‘ Mahanarayana upanishat ‘  used as ‘ paahi trayodasha…’  - aajyaahti   in the saamoohika upaakarmas.

 

        Is it a mix up of Rik and Yajus – prayoga methods ?  a mix up of different books of different periods ? Different schools of teaching ? – I have no answer.  

 

       Suffice it to say : There is no Generic rule, standard and Convention of Upaakarma practice, beyond the ‘ event –observation points of : Going to temple / place of  performance, observing a dress code and facial marks,  Do the ‘Group Worship of (Sapta- Gotra) Rishis  invoked in the darbha grass’, Give ‘ ready made yajnopavitam to a few people around, Wear the new yajnopavita, Take Prasadam’  ; and if possible do a ‘Tarpanam’.  The ‘ Brahma Karma, Deva-Rishi Tarpana’ almost becomes a meaningless group act and a drill of left-right shifting of the sacred thread tangled to the thumb or otherwise !

 

b)  The use of ‘virajaa’ mantras may have been prescribed for ‘some other prayoga’, and might have been carried over as an ‘osmosis phenomenon’ by the ‘ Acharya – Purohita’ to the upaakarma prayoga. Mahanarayana upanishat is one of the common veda-portion learnt across the three –acharya schools; and ‘ common knowledge text of vedas’, along with ‘ mantra-pushpam’. It could be a ‘ social community connection establishment model’.

 

The ‘ practical performance, as it comes over a year and in a ‘crowd –crowded event’ does not subject itself to any systematic study by a control model study. One would notice these changes  only over few decades of observation and with a fair comparative acquaintance of ‘Vaidika Brahmana Prayogas(Design and implementation)  in the inner circles’  with a keen sense for details, comparison on how it was done in  the past, and a compulsive  ‘itch’ for ‘ ‘backward compatibility of traditional practices  anchored to some source books, at least some hundred years old (?!) where author cannot be traced or questioned’.

 

Elaborating ( as your pointed question is involved with several issues):

 

a) The ‘prayoga modifications’ of ‘Vaidika Samskara Vidhi’ is currently carried out  at the ‘ discretion of the  lead  Community Ceremony conductors of ‘Vedic religious rituals ( In-House  or at Temples’). Logical reasoning or sanctions is not known. The only answer , in pure personal conversations’ for such modifications is ‘ My Guru Told, My hand scribed book is like this… ,  My teacher taught me like this…..’.   

 

Mathams have no interest in interfering to this area and ruffle feathers of intra-community supporters. Ashrams and Missions keep priority on Spirituality and Social Service, relegating the ‘ Priest’ to background as a ‘ link to the inner sanctorum of temple to do worship’.  The ‘ guru-kuls are burdened with lack of resources and luke warm community support. So Gurukuls are orienting themselves as ‘ outsourcing contract suppliers of vedic religion services to the believers’. And ‘ Universities’ are scuba seat divers in this subject, who do not want their ‘skin and fingers get wet with the practice challenges’. So, where is the ‘Guru delivering Vedic Education  and Training a  Professional fit for Practice ? And a licensing institution (Snaataka –Shikshana Samsthaa) for practice ?

 

b)  Audit of ‘ Prayoga books’ published in any regional language with the name of ‘lead  Community Ceremony conductors of ‘Vedic religious rituals ( In-House  or at Temples’) as  ‘ authority’  are either poorly proofed reprints with ‘ unspecified edits’ and ‘  no reference to source works’ and ‘Samskruth Language check’. There are exceptions of course, as in any case. Like,  One good apple in a basket of unspecified number of rotten apples. The ‘ Granthi – Knot -divide of ‘ Sanskrit –Tamil-Grantham’  is too strong to bridge !

 

c)      The ‘ upaakarma’ practice in the largesse of State, is another messy scenario :  What one would see  is   ‘Veda- Abhyasa/ prayoga’  flavored by ‘ matha specific Vedantacharyavarya’ –localized versions.   

 

          Did Veda –Samskaras exist prior to Vedantacharayas ? Did Vedantacharyavaryas  recommend any change in the ‘Vaidika Samskara prayogas / Sandhyavandanam  ?  OR provide any Vedanta overrides on Dharma-Shaastra prayogas ?  – would be an interesting exploration of academic research on ‘Dynamics of Vaidika Samskaras’.

 

         Some of these are topics of exploration proposed for research with a community interest, at Yoga-Samskrutham University. Also, there seems to  be no evidence to anchor  and engage studies with  ‘ validating people or manuscript or rock edicts’ to decode here ! beyond ‘ Gruhya and Shrauta Sutras’, possibly Dharma Shaastra works. What seems to be left of ‘Veda-Abhyasa /Prayoga’, even inside the core Brahminical institutions,   is a highly, dynamically,  diluted, Vedanta flavored (- A-Karma /Vi-Karma) models of ‘ Purana –aagama –Tantra’ cultural outfits, with atleast a three centuries backlog to be cleared ?  

 

       And this is what is  showcased and studied as ‘ Hinduism /Religion  in India’.   There seems to be no takers, doers, guides and ‘ Funders’  for education investigation and implementation on these fundas!

      Despite < Battle: Sanskrit War cries>. 

 

d)    Going India nationwide, the problem is much more complex ! and Going International, the challenge seems to be of Himalayan magnitude.

 

        Should then the issue be left unanswered ?The options to explore are :   ‘Academic curios engagement ’  OR ‘ Address  Identity –Practice needs of  community in a current Society’ ?

       Should  this issue be answered by  ‘ World Religion-Research Team’  as a ‘Faith Community practices of an ancient period by a miniscule community who desire backward text-practice continuity and compliance’  OR   

       As a ‘ Intra Community Crisis in streamlining the Practice?  - OR  left best for some future ‘ Dharmacharya varya’ ?   

       I don’t have an answer, beyond the pious expression : ‘ I look for some guidance and answer here, for personal solace’ with a lingering question:

       Is there a need to deliberate for a Universal Global Standard Practice of ‘Veda’   ? What was ‘  Viswamitra Gayatri Mantra’ motivation as a ‘ Universal Vedic Practice, across all Varnas and Vedas’

      OR 

      one should stay content with the guidance ‘ Anu-Shaasanam’: The personalized guidance for Self’ ? ‘ Atma-Kalyanam as priority and preference over Loka-Sangraha /Vishwa-Mangalam’ ?   .

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

 

Dear Prof. Sastry,

 

It is news to me that virajaa homa is being used by some in upaakarma prayoga-s now. Could you elaborate?

 

Best regards,

Vidyasankar

--
 

[Dr BVK Sastry]

Namaste

On < post upAkarma Japas  and Virajaa Homa   >

 

1. I am aware of ‘Virajaa Homa’ prior to Sanyasa vishi.

2. What I referred to is the use of ‘ Virajaa homa manatras’ in upakarma.

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Venkata Sriram
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 10:23 AM
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} sandhyavandanam

 

Dear Sastry Ji,