Re: Dating of the Mahabharatha
V Subrahmanian
A K Kaul
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V Subrahmanian
G Gadadhar
BVK Sastry
Namaste
1. The crux of discussion is < Thus the million dollar question is as to when the Kaliyuga started actually!>
And resolving this issue depends on understanding the term ' yuga'!
What does this Samskruth Language Term mean!
What did the term mean when it was used thousands of years ago ?
2. There are options in exploring what the 'yuga' - Samskruth term- meaning analytics.
Term-Meaning analytics covers five different unified analytics in Samskrutham. They are:
(2.1) Vyutpatti ( Derivation) ,(2.2) Nirukti- Kosha ( Meaning Extraction and lexicon listing) , (2.3) Prakriyaa ( Word form fixation through rules of grammar processing) , (2.4) Paribhashaa (Technical domain specific meaning) , (2.5) Prayoga ( usage in context).
What approach is to be taken to fix the Samskruth term meaning? And in this ' yuga' case, Do we go by context of planetary position, as on date of war ? Or narratives that occured on the battle field, as per description of the term in Bhagavad-gita , said to be discourse on the battle field just before the commencement of war ?
Should one go by the Gregorian model of years or one of the eighteen Jyotisha siddhantas spread over some 2000 years or more?
2a) Vedanga Jyotish (1400 BCE) indigenous approach is seen mixed with Dharma Shastra models of ' Four yugas', under which ' Kali yuga' comes in. Here goes the Aryabhatiya reference, leading to < February 18, 3102 BCE as the start of Kaliyuga> . Conclusion simply is Nobody knows as to when the kaliyuga started !
2b) Follow what Srimad Bhagavad gita (8-17), which is said to be dialogue-discourse on Mahabharata - Kurukshetra war-filed ; where we find the reference of Yuga time measure, specifically mentioning the ' Vedanga Jyotisha tradition as ' aho-raatra vido janah':
sahasra-yuga-paryantam, ahar yad brahmano viduh ; ratrim yuga-sahasrantam te 'ho-ratra-vido janah ||
Close on the heels of this, we have Yuga-Purana / Hari-Vamsha where in this 'time' cycles are explained more clearly in relation to Jyotisha ! THE Y UGA-P URANA AND THE TREATISES OF GARGA : The Yuga-Purdna appears as a chapter within a work on jyotisa ("astrology" in its widest sense, or the study of natural phenomena), whose author is stated to be either Garga or Vrddha-Garga ("the elder Garga").
( https://archive.org/stream/TheYugaPurana/The%20Yuga%20Purana_djvu.txt; http://vedicilluminations.com/downloads/Mahabharata/Harivamsa/hvapp0707.txt)
This model leads to different mind boggling time scale of several thousands of years ! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_units_of_time) (https://www.bhagavad-gita.us/bhagavad-gita-8-17/)
3. These references, for a land-people events history, need a proper understanding of the 'Yoga' model of 'Samskruth Language'. The ' dhatu's linked to the term 'yuga' and contextual interpretation of the same may hold the key to resolve the issue.
4. The interesting side question for research would be :
Did Vedanga jyotisha teams use different measures of time associated to the term ' yuga' in the works from 1400 C.E to 449 A.D ?
Are current Jyotisha software's providing a historic time cycle calculation and sky maps of early period constructed to be in tune with the texts of Vedanga jyotisha ??
There is a serious research required. This could change the way ' Indology (Swadeshi and Anya-deshi) is understood.
This is where that ' Yoga way of understanding Samskruth terms becomes critical'.
This 'Samskruth Language Modeling' is missing in the current 'Classical - oriental- conversational modes of Sanskrit learning'. While each approach is having its utility, they cannot over rule or substitute other model.
Regards
BVK Sastry
Pradeepa Simha
Manju
A K Kaul
What does this Samskruth Language Term mean!
What did the term mean when it was used thousands of years ago ?>
The sense in which the term yuga is used often is a conglomeration of four yugas (Chaturyuga or Mahayuga) viz. the Satya/Krita, Treta, Dwapara and Kaliyuga. It has been used in that sense ever since the Surya Siddhanta, in its present "Avatar", came into existence. In 1/13-17 it has explained in quite an unambiguous manner the duration/definition and composition of a "yuga"
मासैर्द्वादशभिर्वर्षं दिव्यं तदह उच्यते |13|
सुरासुरानामन्योन्यमहोरात्रम् विपर्ययात् | तत्षष्टिः षड्गुणा दिव्यं वर्षमासुरामेव च ||14||
तद्द्वादश सहस्राणि चतुर्युगमुदाह्रतम् | सुर्याब्दसंख्यया द्वित्रि सागरैरयुताहृतैः |15|
सन्द्यासंद्यांश सहितम् विज्ञेयम् तच्चतुर्युगं | कृतादीनां व्यवस्थेयं धर्मपादव्यवस्थया ||16||
युगस्य दशमो भागश्चतुस्त्रिद्व्येक संगुणः | क्रमात् कृतयुगादीनां षष्ठांशः संद्ययो स्वकः ||17||
"Solar month is the time which the sun requires to travel from one sign of the zodiac to the next. A solar year consists of twelve solar months and this is called a day of the gods. An ahoratra (day and night) of the gods and that of the demons are mutually the reverse of each other (viz a day of the gods is a night of the demons and a night of the gods is a day of the demons). Sixty such ahoratras multiplied by six is a year of the gods and demons.
The time containing twelve thousand years of gods is called a Chaturyuga i.e. the aggregate of the four yugas viz. Krita, Treta, Dwapara and Kaliyuga. These four yugas including their sandhyas and sandhyamshas contain 4,320,000 solar years. The number of years included in these small yugas are proportional to the number of the legs of dharma (Virtue) personified".
Almost all the Purana and siddhantas are of a similar view regarding the Yuga dauration etc.
sahasra-yuga-paryantam, ahar yad brahmano viduh ; ratrim yuga-sahasrantam te 'ho-ratra-vido janah || >
( https://archive.org/stream/TheYugaPurana/The%20Yuga%20Purana_djvu.txt; http://vedicilluminations.com/downloads/Mahabharata/Harivamsa/hvapp0707.txt)>
Whether it is "Yuga Purana" or Markandeya Purana or Narada Purana or Shri Vishnu Purana and so on and so forth, all of them echo the SS dimensions of time span of yugas ignoring Aryabhatiya dimensions as if they never existed! (attachment VP yugaduration)
However, no Purana has give any starting date of any yuga, unlike Aryabhata who had claimed in 499 AD that he was 23 years old when 3600 years of Kaliyuga had elapsed! (Aryabhatiya 3/10)
<This model leads to different mind boggling time scale of several thousands of years ! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_units_of_time) (https://www.bhagavad-gita.us/bhagavad-gita-8-17/)>
There is a serious research required. This could change the way ' Indology (Swadeshi and Anya-deshi) is understood.
This is where that ' Yoga way of understanding Samskruth terms becomes critical'.
This 'Samskruth Language Modeling' is missing in the current 'Classical - oriental- conversational modes of Sanskrit learning'. While each approach is having its utility, they cannot over rule or substitute other model.>
Bijoy Misra
A K Kaul
A K Kaul
May be I have overlooked it but astronomically, whether siddhantic or modern, such a phenomenon is impossible.
BVK Sastry
Namaste
1. Bijoy Misra ji - On < In this context, is there a description of युगक्षय somewhere? Reference? > :
The expression ' Yugakshaye' is found in Vishnusahasranama preamble related text. It reads:
yasmiM shcha pralayaM yaanti punareva yugakshaye || (16) tasya lokapradhaanasya jagannaathasya bhuupate | vishhNornaamasahasraM me shRuNu paapabhayaapaham || (17).
The context is explaining the cosmology time scale in relation to Mahavishnu and importance of chanting Vishnu sahasranaama. The Vishnu sahasra naama is linked to Bhishma of Mahabharata.
The term meaning 'yuga' is flexibly interpreted, mainly in tune with the Dharma Shaastra understanding; leading to the huge number of human years scaled up to construct the ' day- Night / life frame of Four faced Brahma'.
2. Avatar Krishen Kaul : I appreciate and agree with your observation < Yes, we must do a serious research .... But in spite of all such integrity ...if we are still groping in the dark, we must certainly do a lot of introspection as to why it is happening like that!... Could it be that we are carrying some "baggage" ---having some psychological constrictions/constraints... I see no reason of have these double standards of paying just lip service to the Siddhantas but going by the ''Anya-deshi" software and algorithms? > The field is open . Let all of us explore.
If the BVP team, with all the resources at their command and faith-force can establish < Krita-Yuga-- at least about 1,200,000 years before the Incarnation of Bhagwan Ram> the World History, the ancientness of Vedas and Date of Buddha would certainly need to be re-written and taught afresh. Academic Scholars are still bargaining for the antiquity of ' Vedas' between 1800 BCE to 10,000 BCE; and may be at best 60,000 years !! For Buddha , the range is still 700 BCE to 1500 BCE; Less spoken about Acharya Shankara , better it is in this context !! And Jains have the Teerthankaras time list that may be close to the kind of years -time cycle you have indicated.
3. On < Vedanga Jyotisha is talking of nothing but a five year yuga comprising Samvatsara, Parivatsara, Idavatsara, Anuvasara and Idvatsara. It does not talk of any planets, much less their longitudes and positions, but gives simply the fundamental arguments for working out mean longitudes of the sun and the moon so that proper "muhurtas" like tithi, nakshra, ritu, masa, paksha etc. for yajnyas could be determined. >
Please revisit the basics of these TIME DIVISION concepts from the original texts, the meaning of ' Tri-Skandha' organization, the ongoing practices and contemplate on the 'Yoga meaning of Samskruth terms used in the originals. Please raise above the literal translations and preferred meanings to align the text with preferential practice seen now.
The term 'yuga' will not be clear if the term 'varsha' translated as ' human year' ( 36- to 365 depending upon what one prefers ! so does the related term kalpa used in Gita < kalpakShaye punastAni kalpAdau visR^ijAmyaham .. 9\-7.. >
The term ' varsha' comes from prevalent texts of Ramayana , attributed to Valmiki original narrative, mentioning the ruling period of Dasharatha. If one has to go by this, the land based history needs to be written on the Astronomical scale. It does endorse faith and greatness of the ' Avatars' as ' Concern of Divine for human welfare, descending in the form of Avataras'. But the hardnosed evidence seeking archeologists, indologists, IE linguists and theological religion constructionists ( = Colonial scholars and many oriental scholars going by their views) do not accept it.
If one thinks Amarakosha, the celebrated lexicon will clarify this, it does not take any further on this issue.
If one takes the ' Vedanga Jyotisha', the amount of confusion that is prevalent has already been noted.
If Vedanga Jyotihsa people desire that ' (Divya) Yuga' calculations need to be scaled down to ' human scale' and lock the TIME DIVINE concept ( Kaala / Mahaa-Kaala) - from Gita and other texts, using ' ahargana' calculations, the ayanmsha working is going to bail them out, they are in to much deeper soup. Why? The mechanical model of TIME measured in the Solar system by planetary objects going round the Sun-Star totally violates the ' Graha-Devataa' concept, so fundamental to Vedanga Jyotisha !
Positioning that Surya Siddhanta is superior to other systems will not resolve this issue. Irrespective of the numeric calculation models out of the eighteen siddhantas, and their subtle differences ( and Ego positions locked to the claims on accuracy of the calculations) , connecting the ' Muhurta accuracy calculation and the ' phala-soochanaa' using the primary axiom of ' TIME DIVINE influencing the Human activity ( unfolding of Punya / Karma phala/ Dharma / graha-chara) is still falling in the ' yet to be proved zone of science'.
Coming to Nakshatras -Moon ( Nakshatra bhoga Kaala by Chandra) clarity for Dashaa - bhukti reckoning , the Jyotish teams have divided views! When these terms and axioms were placed in to the texts, the authors seems to be extremely clear on what they were talking and method of using them for calculation. But today ( in the last 300 years at least; certainly after the mechanical and quartz clocks; the shift to Gregorian calendar; the fifty plus Panchangas floating around Bharath) it is difficult to establish what might have been the true meaning of the term and shifts in its meaning. Surprising enough, with all this confusion, the practice of Parashari Vednaga Jyotisha still gives reasonably good predictions and accurate timing to the window of one day for events. How it happens - is still a mystery. Experience shows it works. Reasoning is not able to comprehend the logic of this.
4. . Did any of the Vedanga Jyotisha works use the yuga concept- time scale to fix up the ' land anchor date of Kurushetra war, Date of birth of Sri Rama and Krishna, the day when Sri Hayagreeva made his avataara to uplift the ' pruthvi' - ? It does not seem to be there. The Dharmashaastra kaaras seem to have mirrored the large time scale to a cyclic lunar / solar/ stellar/ Jovan year to mark certain time segments as ' auspicious'. It is in this context we see ' Jyotisha' as ' Hora - shaastra' associating the ' Graha devataas' as ' Hour- deities' creates the ' Vaara-Chakra' ( Seven day week cycle of sunday to sunday) . Given this scenario, the Monday time of 7.30 to 9.00 does not make any difference for the clock in the morning or night; but the vedanga Jyotisha marks one segment as ' Time of Rahu/ inauspicious'. Why ? Not explained.
5. . On < On the other hand, Aryabhata has taken the orbital elements from the old Surya Siddhanta of Pancha-Siddhantika and "manipulated" them in a manner to work out a "Chaturyuga" of his choice since according to him, every yuga has a duration of 4,320,000 divided by 4 = 1,080,000 years instead of the ratio 1:2:3:4! >
so you suggest that Aryabhatta was at fault and acted as a manipulator-misleader of the tradition ??!!
You think that the later writers on Vedanga Jyotisha were dumb fellows to over look such manipulations if it existed ??
6. . On < इत्थं युग सहस्रेण भूतसंहारकारकः | कल्पो ब्राह्ममहः प्रोक्तं शर्वरी तस्य तावती ||
"Thus a thousand of the great yugas make a KALPA, a period which destroys the whole world. It is a day of the God Brahma, and his night is equal to his day"| Bapu Dev Sastri translation. >
Another term that is a mess, because ' Yuga' meaning is messed up. What is the logic for Bapu deva Sastri's translation of gita ??
How on earth did the term < Samkalpa> which means ' Declaration at the beginning of the 'karma' get connected to the time scale ' kalpa'? Word similarity ? Then why not to Vedanga ' Kalpa' ??
There needs to be some rationale in the practice of tradition.
And just for records sake, please let us know : what is the first known occurrence of the current popular <samkalpa>, reading ' Shubhe shobhane muhurte, adya-brahmanah dviteeya parardhe .. jamboodweepe, bharatavarshe, bharatakhande, ... shaalivahana shake, bauddhavataare ... ramakshetra , asmin vartamaane vyaavaharike ..... > Could this be as old as ' Ramayana' itself ? Or some Gruhya sutra gives this framework ??
7. . On < about 22 lakhs of years back! ... What is all the more surprising is that it has survived in its "pristine" form for such a long duration of time! ...Till about a few decades back my grandfather, my father and even I myself in my childhood days believed every word of this ''Arsha work"! But with the passage of time, I started feeling quite uneasy as to how I was being taken for a ride by the manipulation that the Surya Siddhanta that I am/was "reciting" is a work of 22 lakhs of years back>
Finding an answer to this question is what Yoga way learning- using Samskrutham will provide ! Through the 'Jyotir-Yoga ( = Vedanga Jyotisha) one will realize the meaning of the BG Statement< Kalosmi> and then the 'finite divisions and processes that occur in TIME-SPACE; the scaled relative measure of which is 'aho-raatra'- the cyclic manifestation and involution of Consciousness.
Sorry for a stright talk. Sorry if the truth of ' kings clothes' hurts any ones sentiments. As a devout religious person, when i recite the Samkalpa, i am not looking at the land history; and it does not mean anything for the ' samskara' - poojaa- vrata' perfomance with 'Shraddhaa' .
Bijoy Misra
Ashok Aklujkar
BVK Sastry
Namaste
(To keep focus on the point in your mail, I am taking out the trail mail portions; and it saves the time in reading the response).
Yuga-kshaya is both conceptual as well as ' real religion practice in Vedic tradition'. It is to be understood as ' Transition from one stage to another'- say from gruhastha to vanaprastha. It is a beginning of new togetherness , an end of previous togetherness.
From the discussions it is amply clear that the term ' yuga' has multilayered interpretation ; and in this context, it is on the TIME-SCALE ( KAALA - MAANA ) , a numeric measure of time -period.
From this perspective, 'yuga- kshaya' is to be understanding as roll back of TIME to the Next- Zero point in the cyclic model. ( Or in a sine wave completion of one cycle trending from 1 towards zero; and heading to the next marked beginning of 1). The vedic tradition uses the Kaala- Chakra / yuga- chakra model to provide its terminology and teachings. The linear time thinkers fail to see the value of the cyclic model. ( See Gita: evam pravartitam chakram nanuvartayatiha yah, aghayur indriyaramo mogham partha sa jivati : BG 3.16).
Different schools of Vedic tradition pick on the ' chakra' - cycle and analyze it for right action in right time ( kaala- dharma ( Changing times) / kaala- karma ( Appropriate action for the time) :: dharma - kaala (Samskaara - samaya) / karma-kaala ( Muhurta)
In this model, end of dwapara yuga would be the beginning of Kali-yuga.
This may be characterized as ' dwaapara yuga-kshaya; kaliyuga- praarambha' :: End of Dwapara yuga cycle - beginning of Kaliyuga cycle'.
The descending node of time is iconically illustrated as ' the Dharma-Cow losing one leg (25% support) in each changing cycle.
Why mark the time cycle ? - It is a measure of changes in the practice of Ten Values of Dharma in society ( or say the Cosmos. This may be too much to comprehend, or accept. so we limit this to the local land -community context.) In this sense, yuga-kshaya means ' Change in the Togetherness, the dynamic eco system in which the life progresses, loss of togetherness'. In Valmiki's model, the separation of male and female birds due to the intervention of hunters act ( kraucha dvandva viyoga ; vadha of partner is yuga- kshaya).
What are markers for the time cycle ? - (i) The inner tendency (Swabhaava) observance of 'Dharma'; (ii) the potential (Sattva, Veerya) of people to perceive and pursue Yoga-Dharma for Higher values of life (iii) the ability to become a ' mantra drashtaa ( rushi) in ones life time.
Due to these changes, the ' role, purpose and teaching of 'avatara's', the guidance for good living keep changing. This is dynamics of Dharma-Shaastra in different yuga cycles.
This is ' CONTEXTUALIZATION' of Teaching- Instruction; It is NOT a new rule to overrule the previous version.
What is our time cycle in relation to given ' yuga-kshaya' like Dwaapara yuga end ? - This is used in the ' declaratory statement ( poojaa samkalpa) in every rite of passage. It is a recognition of Time and changing realities.
This wisdom is lost due to the failure of the performing parties to understand and contemplate on the Samskruth statements. and the failure of ' Education pedagogy in Training the Purohita's to a requisite level of proficiency in the language of the sacred text.
Abrahamic religions have two models to address this social problem : (i) X-ian model: Translate and define-dilute interpret the scripture in language of society (ii) Jewish and Islamic models:- Society Trains and supports well being of the Scholar of Text , language and Practice. ( No dilution or severance of language from society).
In the last three hundred years of 'Hinduism by colonial Oriental Sanskrit standards', the ' Scholar, the consumer, the society of Vedic Documents' have caused irreparable damage to what survived as a standard over at least for five millennia ( Valmiki to Acharya Madhwa and his disciple Vadiraja during Vijayanagar empire ! This is ' (deva-Bhashaa- Yuga- Kshaya). or loss of Vak-Yoga pedagogy of Panini-Patanjali- Yaska in Samskruth studies.
Regards
BVK Sastry
From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bijoy Misra
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 3:14 AM
To: Bharatiya Vidvat parishad
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Dating of the Mahabharatha
Dr BVK,
So there is conceptual understanding of युगक्षय.
Now the question is to locate any descriptive understanding.
Valmiki uses: excessive expansion of the sun, large clouds.
Looks like astronomical speculations.
So my interest is to look how it is characterized.
BM,
On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 2:20 PM BVK Sastry <sastr...@gmail.com> wrote:
Namaste
1. Bijoy Misra ji - On < In this context, is there a description of युगक्षय somewhere? Reference? > :
The expression ' Yugakshaye' is found in Vishnusahasranama preamble related text. It reads:
yasmiM shcha pralayaM yaanti punareva yugakshaye || (16) tasya lokapradhaanasya jagannaathasya bhuupate | vishhNornaamasahasraM me shRuNu paapabhayaapaham || (17).
The context is explaining the cosmology time scale in relation to Mahavishnu and importance of chanting Vishnu sahasranaama. The Vishnu sahasra naama is linked to Bhishma of Mahabharata.
The term meaning 'yuga' is flexibly interpreted, mainly in tune with the Dharma Shaastra understanding; leading to the huge number of human years scaled up to construct the ' day- Night / life frame of Four faced Brahma'.
From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bijoy Misra
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2019 7:53 PM
To: Bharatiya Vidvat parishad
Subject: Re: {
भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Dating of the Mahabharatha
Bijoy Misra
--
Nagaraj Paturi
Nagaraj Paturi
Bijoy Misra
Nagaraj Paturi
Bijoy Misra
Nagaraj Paturi
Bijoy Misra
shankara
shankara
Bijoy Misra
A K Kaul
Kalicharan Tuvij
Simple checks of consistency are able to reveal if someone writing about something in humanities is worthy of respect/ attention or not.
Yavana-s in general fail this test. The reason is that their quest - be it scientific or humanities related - has been propelled by a singular goal: "the elimination of the other". I'd rather go so far as to say that this deep (and unique) motivation is what defines the term "yavana".
Amid ourselves we have a set of confused lot (NRI's leading the eminent charge) who avidly believe in the virtues of science (a sword can be used to chop vegetable, no?) without having delved in its true depths (at the most only attaining some excellence in a especiality such as Engineering which is a mediocre field at best).
People from such fields should remember that Sanskrit goes deeper (than their training helps them access), and without first hand delving in Sanskrit (not Paninian necessarily) no real contribution (if that be the motivation) can be made.
Coming to the topic at hand, i.e. the dating of Mahabharata, I have not come across any serious challenge to the 3000 BC time window for the epic.
Shri Nilesh Oak as I understand has done some good research that clearly demonstrates the awareness of the effects of precession in the Mahabharata era. (This lends credence to the view that Hindu Panchanga actively makes use of precession.)
However, his own plot on Arundhati shows a sharp curve in the 3000 BC window validating the observation made in Mahabharata in the same span. Unsurprisingly he erred because he relied on others' translation of the text.
पृष्ठतः need not mean "behind". The correct translation is "showing its back". In a couple the most inauspicious position would be "the male showing his back to the female".
This is also somewhat corroborated by accounts (कलियुगी no doubt) from certain other cultures depicting the couple as "rider on the horse back" with Vashishtha being the horse.
P.S.
To those on the atheist/ agnostic bent reading this, I would say it is perhaps time to accept 3000 BC setting for the epic (even if the "story" was concocted by some insanely clever person in, say, 1000 AD).
More than this personally I am not interested in splitting hairs about the exact times and dates in Mahabharata.
Thank you
Bijoy Misra
A K Kaul
Bijoy Misra
BVK Sastry
Namaste
On < Yuga-Kshaya> ...< astronomical speculations> .. the works dealing with ' Vedanga Jyotisha- Astronomical observation and calculation deals with this. Valmiki's usage is literary (kavya). Dharma shastra usage is cosmology- model. Vedanga Jyotisha usage is predefined -contextual meaning for the term ' Yuga'.
1. Vedanga Jyotisha adapts the ' Yuga' Time measure understanding, which yields huge numbers. Vedanga jyotisha is not having any deviation from the <yuga> concept prevalent other wise.
2. The term ' yuga' has to be contextually interpreted for the duration of the length it is supposed to point. The meaning of 'Yuga' in Dharma Shastra' cannot be ported blindly to 'Vedanga Jyotisha'. Please see the details in the attached book, by Mohan, Chander. (2015). THE STORY OF ASTRONOMY IN INDIA. The book is available online at the link: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/288838271_THE_STORY_OF_ASTRONOMY_IN_INDIA .
The work has specific sections addressing your question from Astronomical and Dharma Shastra perspective.
The extract from 4.1 reads:
4.1 Five Year Yuga
A Yuga in Vedang Jyotish has 5 years, 1830 days and 62 lunar months. This results in (1830/5) i.e. 366 days in an year and the number of solar days in a lunar month to be 1830/62 i.e. 29.516 days. (Had the length of a Yuga been taken to be 1831 days, then the number of days in a lunar month would have been a bit more accurate. However the number of days in a solar year would have been 366.2. This would have been much farther from the correct value).
It is apparent that the length of Yuga chosen was too small. (It is just one year more than the present day leap year period of four which too has some error which is rectified when a century is considered a leap year only if it is divisible by 400 and not four thus reducing the number of leap years in a four hundred year period by 3). Of course the length of 29.516 solar days in a lunar month is a bit better estimate than 29 and a half solar days. However still it has some error. For example after a 20 year period, one would notice that when according to calculations it should be new moon in reality it would be a crescent (a
difference of around three and a half days!). Such a result would have indicated that there was some basic mistake in the assumed length of Yuga. Later period books on Indian astronomy in fact assume a very large length of a Yuga. For example in Aryabhattiya (which was written in fifth century A.D.), a Yuga is taken to be of 43,20,000 solar years duration!
3. It is a mute question for research : Did Vedanga Jyotisha works carry multiple meanings of the term ' Yuga' ? simultaneously ? OR contextually for different calculations?
It seems to be so, if one goes through the work ' Karna- Kuthoohala' by one author Bhashara ( 1150 - 1200 C.E.) under the technicality of ' Tantra ( Technicality of term) ' ( Not the Tantra as in the context of Mantra, discipline etc;.)
See the research paper available from link : http://shodhganga.inflibnet.ac.in/bitstream/10603/47605/7/07_chapter%201.pdf ( File attached).
4. On the specific point on < yuga-kshaya>, the Vedanga Jyotisha works speak of < tithi-kshaya / vruddhi > . As this is related to TIME-MEASURE concepts, the concept of yuga-kshaya might have surfaced as a logical extension of thought.
Bijoy Misra
BVK Sastry
Namaste
1. On < I might sound like a complaining person > . Not at all.
2. Your question < My quest is to locate any text that might talk about astronomical phenomena connected with the < Yuga-Kshaya>. > represents a perspective of looking at the text and seeking an answer.
'yuga-anta' is another connected expression that one may start looking for in this exploration. The term ' yuganta' is connected with several contexts in the narratives. some describe the event as ' Brilliant sun light'; some as dissolution of earth with floods of cosmic waters. To filter out from all these usages, what could be the < astronomical phenomena> that may satisfy your quest, is something that needs further study.
Additional note: Similarly ' Yuga-Aadi= beginning of the Yuga becomes elusive when the meaning of yuga is not clear. Yet, with all this , we do have an annual celebration of YUGADI ( solar and Lunar, the panchanga publications and all related programs).
3. There are 27 occurrences and connected explanation of < yuganta> in the Mahabharata text, as available at the url: http://bombay.indology.info/mahabharata/text/ASCII/MBh03.txt
Your question carries a premise of Sky phenomenon and Earth-phenomenon connected with the expression < yuga-kshaya>. In all cases, the term 'Yuga' does not stay consistent with the ' TIME MEASURE' associated with it - be it the five thousand year scale or several thousand years scale.
Your expression < astronomical phenomenon> is understood as something that happens in the Sky, as observed from Earth. The Mbh text speaks many social changes also.
4. The problem continues to remain a vexed one.
We are not the only one who are perplexed by this question on ' Yuga'- Yugaanta'- Yuga-kshaya' and 'Yugaadi'.
If any one was more sure and clear on this issue, it was the earlier writers on Dharmashastra and Vedanga jyotisha. How we lost the clarity on these terms and ending in this discussion scenario is something deeply connected with the way we are studying our traditional texts, the language of the text, namely :SAMSKRUTHAM.
The academicians call this as problems in ' Sanskrit Language Pedagogy'. Computational Sanskrit Linguists call this a challenge of ' Sanskrit Language Modeling'. Colonials and Orientalists call this as ' Natural decays and meaning shifts in Historical Sanskrit language usage.
Lexicons offer little help to resolve this issue ! Try to figure out the ' listing of the term 'yuga' in all the dictionaries listed at https://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/ .
On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 2:20 PM BVK Sastry <sastr...@gmail.com> wrote:
Namaste
1. Bijoy Misra ji - On < In this context, is there a description of युगक्षय somewhere? Reference? > :
The expression ' Yugakshaye' is found in Vishnusahasranama preamble related text. It reads:
yasmiM shcha pralayaM yaanti punareva yugakshaye || (16) tasya lokapradhaanasya jagannaathasya bhuupate | vishhNornaamasahasraM me shRuNu paapabhayaapaham || (17).
The context is explaining the cosmology time scale in relation to Mahavishnu and importance of chanting Vishnu sahasranaama. The Vishnu sahasra naama is linked to Bhishma of Mahabharata.
The term meaning 'yuga' is flexibly interpreted, mainly in tune with the Dharma Shaastra understanding; leading to the huge number of human years scaled up to construct the ' day- Night / life frame of Four faced Brahma'.
From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bijoy Misra
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2019 7:53 PM
To: Bharatiya Vidvat parishad
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Dating of the MahabharathaDear Dr Kaul and Dr BVK,
In this context, is there a description of युगक्षय somewhere?
Reference?
Thank you for your help.
BM
--
Bijoy Misra
--
A K Kaul
You think that the later writers on Vedanga Jyotisha were dumb fellows to over look such manipulations if it existed ??>
Namaste
1. Bijoy Misra ji - On < In this context, is there a description of युगक्षय somewhere? Reference? > :
The expression ' Yugakshaye' is found in Vishnusahasranama preamble related text. It reads:
yasmiM shcha pralayaM yaanti punareva yugakshaye || (16) tasya lokapradhaanasya jagannaathasya bhuupate | vishhNornaamasahasraM me shRuNu paapabhayaapaham || (17).
The context is explaining the cosmology time scale in relation to Mahavishnu and importance of chanting Vishnu sahasranaama. The Vishnu sahasra naama is linked to Bhishma of Mahabharata.
The term meaning 'yuga' is flexibly interpreted, mainly in tune with the Dharma Shaastra understanding; leading to the huge number of human years scaled up to construct the ' day- Night / life frame of Four faced Brahma'.
2. Avatar Krishen Kaul : I appreciate and agree with your observation < Yes, we must do a serious research .... But in spite of all such integrity ...if we are still groping in the dark, we must certainly do a lot of introspection as to why it is happening like that!... Could it be that we are carrying some "baggage" ---having some psychological constrictions/constraints... I see no reason of have these double standards of paying just lip service to the Siddhantas but going by the ''Anya-deshi" software and algorithms? > The field is open . Let all of us explore.
If the BVP team, with all the resources at their command and faith-force can establish < Krita-Yuga-- at least about 1,200,000 years before the Incarnation of Bhagwan Ram> the World History, the ancientness of Vedas and Date of Buddha would certainly need to be re-written and taught afresh. Academic Scholars are still bargaining for the antiquity of ' Vedas' between 1800 BCE to 10,000 BCE; and may be at best 60,000 years !! For Buddha , the range is still 700 BCE to 1500 BCE; Less spoken about Acharya Shankara , better it is in this context !! And Jains have the Teerthankaras time list that may be close to the kind of years -time cycle you have indicated.
3. On < Vedanga Jyotisha is talking of nothing but a five year yuga comprising Samvatsara, Parivatsara, Idavatsara, Anuvasara and Idvatsara. It does not talk of any planets, much less their longitudes and positions, but gives simply the fundamental arguments for working out mean longitudes of the sun and the moon so that proper "muhurtas" like tithi, nakshra, ritu, masa, paksha etc. for yajnyas could be determined. >
Please revisit the basics of these TIME DIVISION concepts from the original texts, the meaning of ' Tri-Skandha' organization, the ongoing practices and contemplate on the 'Yoga meaning of Samskruth terms used in the originals. Please raise above the literal translations and preferred meanings to align the text with preferential practice seen now.
The term 'yuga' will not be clear if the term 'varsha' translated as ' human year' ( 36- to 365 depending upon what one prefers ! so does the related term kalpa used in Gita < kalpakShaye punastAni kalpAdau visR^ijAmyaham .. 9\-7.. >
The term ' varsha' comes from prevalent texts of Ramayana , attributed to Valmiki original narrative, mentioning the ruling period of Dasharatha. If one has to go by this, the land based history needs to be written on the Astronomical scale. It does endorse faith and greatness of the ' Avatars' as ' Concern of Divine for human welfare, descending in the form of Avataras'. But the hardnosed evidence seeking archeologists, indologists,
If one thinks Amarakosha, the celebrated lexicon will clarify this, it does not take any further on this issue.
Namaste
On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 9:09 PM V Subrahmanian <v.subra...@gmail.com> wrote:
Someone shared this image:
Does the date mentioned here give any clue to the dating of the Mahabharatha? Experts in the field of Mahabharaha dating studies may examine.this.
regards
subrahmanian.v
--
Subrahmanyam Korada
Professor of Sanskrit, CALTS,
University of Hyderabad,
Ph:09866110741(M),91-40-23010741(R),040-23133660(O)
--
S R Ivaturi
Venkatakrishna Sastry
Lokesh Johri
On Friday, February 8, 2019 at 5:33:39 AM UTC-8, A K Kaul wrote:
Respected Shri Subrahmanianji,Jai Shri Ram!<Does the date mentioned here give any clue to the dating of the Mahabharatha? ..........>The "image" statesQuoteShri Krishna departed on the first day of bright fortnight of Chaitra month (which corresponds with 18th February of English calendar) in the year 3102 BC at 2:27:30 hours.UnquoteBhagwan Krishna is supposed to have "ascended" to "Goloka" the same day when Kaliyuga started. Thus the million dollar question is as to when the Kaliyuga started actually!It was Aryabhata, who in 499 AD, had said in the fourth stanza of Gitika Section of AryabhatiyaQuoteThese revolutions commenced at the beginning of the sign Aries on Wednesday at sunrise at Lanka when it was the commencement of the current yuga.UnquoteHe had arrived at the date of February 18, 3102 BCE as the start of Kaliyuga through back-calculation of these mean planetary longitudes (supposed to have been zero except for Rahu and lunar perigee/apogee) at sunrise time on that date. (Atachment Aryabhatiya Kaliyuga).But the fact of the matter is that as per the attachment Aryabhatiya-Kali-zero, none of the planets had a mean longitude of zero degrees actually then. Similarly, though it was Shukla pratipad, but the second month of Shishira Ritu having just started, it could never by Chaitra Shukla paksha! Besides, though Aryabhata claimed that it was Wednesday on that date but it was Friday actually!As per the Test page of Swiss Ephemeris, the delta time as on that date was 78245 seconds i.e. about 21 hrs 44 mts.Thus it was the start of an imaginary Kaliyuga that could not be declared as imaginary till the advent of modern astronomy!What is also ironic is that as per the old i.e. Pancha-Siddhamntika Surya Siddhanta as well as the current Surya Siddhanta, the mean longitudes of planets (except for Rahu and lunar apogee/perigee) were supposed to be zero not at about 6 am of February 18, 3102 BCE but at the mean midnight (Ujjain Time) for midnight of February 17/18 of 3102 BCE. Even Aryabhata had initially "back-calculated" the same date and time as per Aryabhata-Siddhanta which is not available these days.The latter is the Kaliyuga-arambha date that is given by all the panchangas, including the Rshtriya Panchanga as well the Surya Siddhanta Panchanga of BHU and the respected Jagadgurus etc. etc. these days!The well-known Varahamaihira was highly peeved with Aryabhata as to how a yuga could start twice, once at the time of midnight and then again at the time of sunrise the next day! However, as per the attachment SS-Kali-Zero, none of the planets had mean longitudes of zero degrees even at the midnight of February 17, 3102 BCE!The last indigenous Siddhntic astronomer viz. Bhaskaracharya-II also has given the mean longitudes of planets much different from zero in his Siddhanta Shiromani!Thus nobody knows as to when the Kaliyuga started actually which means it is impossible to decide the date of Mahabharata war as per planetary details of the siddhantas or even the Mahabharata since there is no mention of any planets in the earliest available indigenous astronomical work viz. the Vedanga Jyotisham of 1400 BCE.
With regards and Jai Shri Ram!Avtar Krishen Kaul
On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 9:09 PM V Subrahmanian <v.subra...@gmail.com> wrote:
Someone shared this image:--Does the date mentioned here give any clue to the dating of the Mahabharatha? Experts in the field of Mahabharaha dating studies may examine.this.regardssubrahmanian.v
A K Kaul
A K Kaul
.
Subrahmanyam Korada
BVK Sastry
Namaste Kaul
The summary point you are making is : < That proves it conclusively that even around fifth/sixth century BCE, Mesha etc. Rashis were not ''available" in India!>.
Here is the line of thinking i suggest you to explore as research:
The grouping of rashi's with nine-paadas of nakshatra, and graha-adhipatya is a standing practice in Vednaga jyotisha.
When did this grouping start with specific nomenclature ? is the question to investigate.
Indian stand is : It has been there as a part of Vedanga Jyotisha, ever since.
You want to show that it is post 5/6th century BCE. using the argument: < There are no references in Dharma Shaastra works and the like>.
Please note that the names ' mesha, vrushabha..meena' are NOTATIONS (Samjnaa) of VEDNAGA JYTOISHA. So one needs to look at the source books and SAMJNAA prakaranam for the Vedanga Jyotisha. Please explore how Varahamihira gives the slokas for the rashi names and work backwards, as to where from he got it. and why he associates it with Vedanga Jyotisha. You will surely get the answer.
Explore link https://archive.org/details/jyotisha/page/n17 and sloka 4 to 8 : Raashi prabheda adhyaaya. Varahamihira did not come up suddenly with the notations and no reasoning. Please explore the same before going on < attacks >.
Also explore https://archive.org/details/Brihatsamhita.
Regards
BVK Sastry
From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of A K Kaul
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2019 9:13 AM
To: Bharatiya Vidvat parishad
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Dating of the Mahabharatha
Dear Dr. Subrahmanyam Korada,
--
A K Kaul
When did this grouping start with specific nomenclature ? is the question to investigate. >
I have done a lot of "investigation" about it already!
As per the attachment Vamanapu-1 the twenty-seven nakshatras have been apportioned to Mesha etc. Rashis in a sequential order, exactly as desired by you! However, as per the attachment vamana-pu.jpeg, the same Karkata Rashi is said to be the start of Dakshinayana and Makara Samkranti that of Uttarayana! What does it prove? That even the nakshatra divisions are to be subsumed in so called sayana i.e. seasonal rashis!
Even divine incarnations are subject to niraadhaar niraayana faux pas!
On page 2 of his "Notable Horoscopes" Dr. B V Raman had quoted Srimad Bhagavata 10/3/1, Vishnu Purana /1/26 and Harivamsha 1/52 as the source of his information that "Bhagwan Krishna was born in dark half of Shravana Krishna Ashtami in the constellation of Rohini at midnight" and Dr. Raman had calculated His birth chart accordingly! Ironically, again, it was not calculated either from the Surya Siddhanta or from the Siddhanta Shiromani etc. but in the words of Dr. Raman himself,
Quote
I must acknowledge my indebtedness to my friend Mr. Cyril Fagan of Dublin for his unstinting help. He has calculated for me, several of the ancient horoscopes given in this book; in some cases, each horoscope several times".
Unquote
And Cyril Fagan had calculated it---and other "ancient horoscopes" through modern astronomy, of course, and that too so called sayana, with only the Ramana Ayanamsha tonsure having been done for the purpose of proving that Ayanamsha to be correct!
But what is surprising and even ironic is that all these "sources" are talking of nothing but a so called sayana Rashichakra! E.g the Srimad Bhagavata has said at 5/21/4-6
यदा मेषतुलयोर्वर्तते तदाहोरात्राणि समानानि भवन्ति यदा वृषभादिषु पञ्चसु च राशिषु चरति तदाहान्येव वर्धन्ते ह्रसति च मासिमास्येकैका घटिका रात्रिषु | यदा वृश्चिकादिषु पञ्चसु वर्तते तदाहोरात्राणि विपर्ययानि भवन्ति | यावद् दक्षिणायनं अहानि वर्धन्ते यावदुदगयनं रात्रयः ||
"...When the sun is in Mesha and Tula, days and nights are equal. When it passes through the five Rashis of Vrishabha etc., days go on increasing and nights decreasing. In Dakshinayana, it is the reverse. Till Dakshinayana, days go on increasing and then till Uttarayana, nights go on increasing"
Then in 5/22/5, we read
अथ स एष आत्मा लोकानां द्यावा पृथ्व्योरन्तरेण नभोवलयस्य कालचक्रगतो द्वादश मासान्भुङ्क्ते राशि संज्ञान् संवत्सरावयवान् मासः पक्षद्वयं दिवा नक्तं चेति सपादर्क्ष्यद्वयमुपदिशन्ति यावता शष्ठमंशं भुञ्जीत स वै ऋतुरित्युपदिश्य्ते संवत्सराव्यवः ||
"The sun-god, who is the soul of the worlds, mounted on the wheel of time, which is poised in the upper air, midway between earth and heaven, passes through the twelve months that make up the year and are known by the names of the different zodiacal signs. The month consists of two fortnights, the dark and the bright, according to the lunar reckoning. And in the course of one month the sun transits the space occupied by two nakshatras (constellations) and a quarter. The period he takes to traverse one-sixth of the length of the zodiac is called a season, another division of a year". (N Raghunathan translation)
As to what type of Rashichakra the Vishnu-purana is talking about, pl. see the attachment VP-rashis2, which talks of nothing but a seasonal Rashichakra in the following words:
तुला मेष गते भानौ समरात्रि दिनं तु तत् |कर्कटावस्थिते भानौ दक्षिणायनं उच्यते | उत्तरयायनमप्युक्तम् मकरस्थे दिवाकरे |
''When the sun is in Mesha or Tula, the days and nights are equal. When it enters Karkata, that is the start of Dakshinayana and with entrance into Makara, it is known as Uttarayana"
About "Harivamsha", which is a part of the Mahabharata, there are no Mesha etc. Rashis, whether so called sayana or nirayana! But it does talk of Ayanas and Vishuvas!
Thus it is a mystery as to how Dr. Raman could prepare a horoscope of Bhagwan Krishna on the basis of his beloved "Ramana Rashichakra" which is astronomically non-existent and has not been touched by any Purana or siddhanta even with a barge pole!
All the more surprising is the fact that Dr. Raman had correlated the events of Bhagwan Krishna's life to such a non-existent Rashichakra meticulously!
And same is the case with other ''astrologers" who have delineated His chart as per Lahiri or any other niraadhar niraayana rashichakras galore!
What also pains me is that a scholar like you is "searching" for such non-existent Rasichakras galore in the Vedanga Jyotisha, which has not referred to any Rashi even by mistake!
< Please explore how Varahamihira gives the slokas for the rashi names and work backwards, as to where from he got it. and why he associates it with Vedanga Jyotisha. You will surely get the answer.
Explore link https://archive.org/details/jyotisha/page/n17 and sloka 4 to 8 : Raashi prabheda adhyaaya. Varahamihira did not come up suddenly with the notations and no reasoning. Please explore the same before going on < attacks >.
Varahamihira was around in sixth century AD. that is about 1100 years after 6th century BCE! The Surya Siddhanta, the earliest Rashi based ''astronomical" work is of early centuries of CE. That means much water had flown under the Ganges from 5th century BCE till then!
This is what Varahamihira has said in 3/2 of his Brihat Samhita
सांप्रतं अयनं सवितुः कर्कटाद्य्म् मृगादितश्चान्य्त|
"The sun turns South (Dakshinayana - Summer Solstice) when it enters Karkata and it turns towards North (Uttarayana - Winter Solstice) when it enters Capricorn (Makara Rashi)"
The Vamana Purana has said exactly the same thing in 2/16/12
ततो दिवाकरो रात्रिं संप्रयाति च कर्कटम् | ततो अमराणां रजनी भवति दक्षिणायनम्
"The sun enters then Karkata Rashi, which is the start of the six months' night of gods, known as Dakshinaayana".
Varahamihira has also said in Panchasiddhantika 3/21 साम्प्रतम् अयनं पुनर्वसुतः i.e. "Presently the Dakshinayana starts from (the last quarter of) Punarvasu". And since the Vamana Purana also has said in an earlier Adyaya that last quarter of Punarvasu falls in the start of Karkata Rashi, it means both are repeating one and the same thing!
It could have happened only either if Varahamihira and Vamana Purana had been contemporaneous, or as an alternative, both of these works are referring to such phenomena which take place always like that according to them!
That means both of them are so called saayana---following a seasonal year and months and even nakshatras!
Since the Vamana Purana says that Makar Samkranti is the shortest day of the year and at the same time it says that Makar Samkranti coincided with the sun in Uttarashadha nakshatra, it means that it has absolutely no knowledge of precession!
Regarding Makar Samkranti, it was the shortest day of the year as per Varahamihira (Panchasiddhantika III/24) also
उदगयनं मकरादावृतवः शिशिरादयश्च सूर्यवशात् || द्विभवन कालसमानं दक्षिणं अयनंच कर्कटात्
"The sun's turning northward is when it reaches the zero point of Makara (Capricorn) i.e at winter solstice, and its turning southward is at the zero point of Karkata (Cancer) i.e. at summer solstice, with the attendant sacred days. The seasons Shishira etc. commence with the winter solstice and each season lasts two tropical months".
The most interesting thing about Varahamihira is that he expected the Winter Solstice to coincide always with Makar samkranti and Karkata Samkranti with Dakshinayana - Summer Solstice as otherwise there would be nothing but chaos.
In his Brihat Samhita, Aadityachaara Adyaaya, he has said
अप्राप्य मकरमर्को विनिवृत्तो हन्ति सापरां याम्यां | कर्कटकमसंप्राप्तो विनिवृत्तश्चोत्तरां सैन्द्रीं ||4||
''If the sun should change his course before reaching Makara (Capricornus) he will bring evil on the West and South. And if he should do so before reaching Karkata (Cancer), he will bring evil on the north and the east!
The sun when he changes his course from north to south and when in his usual condition will bring on prosperity and increase of crops; but when he undergoes a change in his usual course or his appearance, it causes fear to mankind"
Whether it was ''almighty" Lahiri Makar Samkranti or Ramana Makar Samkranti or even Surya Siddhanta (calculated) Makar Samkranti, it could never coincide with Uttarayana, nor could Dakshinayana coincide with Karkata Samkranti at the time of Varahamaira! Since the SS calculated Samkrantis did not coincide with the Solstices, Vararhamahira was getting panicky as earlier ''astrologers" like Garga and Parashara etc. had said
as per page 23 of Brihat-Samhita translation by Vidvan Subrahmanya Sastri and Vidwan M Ramakrishna Bhatt
यदा निवर्ततेअप्राप्तो धनिष्ठंत्तरायणे | आश्लेषां दक्षिनेअप्राप्तस्तदा विद्यान्महद्भयम्
यद्यप्राप्तो वैष्णवमुदग्मार्गं प्रपद्यते | दक्षिनमाश्लेषां वा महाभयाय ||
Venkatakrishna Sastry
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shivraj singh
For your perusal here is a reference from Mahabharat about Zodiac:
Udyog Parv 5.47
उच्चावचं थैवयुक्तं रहस्यं; थिव्याः परश्ना मृगचक्रा मुहूर्ताः
कषयं महान्तं कुरुसृञ्जयानां; निवेथयन्ते पाण्डवानां जयं च [5.47.93]
"Capable of explaining the mysteries of the Gods and of answering
questions regarding coming events, understanding the signs of
the zodiac, prophesying the great overthrow of the kuru and the
Srinjaya and the triumph of the Pandav." [5.47.93]
In this shloka zodiac and predictions of future are mentioned.
Dhritrashtr also consults rishis to know his sons' future.
And Gita is all about future prediction to Arjun by Krishn himself.
RgVed mentions all 27 nakshatras. It knows 13 solar months including the intercalary month which gets dropped to keep calendars in sync.
In my humble opinion if we approach a topic with a sense of enquiry we might learn more but if the idea is to show absence of this and that we might not learn that much.
Shivraj
--------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Dating of the Mahabharatha
Date: Thursday, March 7, 2019, 5:18 PM
Krishna Kumar Pillalamarri
Krishna Kumar Pillalamarri
A K Kaul
कषयं महान्तं कुरुसृञ्जयानां; निवेथयन्ते पाण्डवानां जयं च [5.47.93]
questions regarding coming events, understanding the signs of
the zodiac, prophesying the great overthrow of the kuru and the
Srinjaya and the triumph of the Pandav." [5.47.93] >
Clearly, Arjuna does not appear to have consulted any soothsayer before jumping into the battlefield nor does he appear to have read, nay even heard about any Brihat Parshara Hora Shastram, as he would have consulted that work and checked his Dasha Bhuktis and gochara etc. before deciding to fight the "mother of all battles"
shivraj singh
Before we proceed on other points let us clarify nakshatras.
Please contest whichever point you might want to but with evidence:
a) RgVed knew 27 Nakshatras
b) Moon spent a single night in every nakshatr. This means 360 degrees were traversed in 27+ nights.
Hence each nakshatra was 360/27 degrees.
Unless you are arguing that moon sometimes spent two nights or three nights in a single nakshatra?
Please clarify.
Shivraj
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Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Dating of the Mahabharatha
To: "Bharatiya Vidvat parishad" <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
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Dushyant Gautam
Dushyant Gautam