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"वाकोवाक्यं = तर्कशास्त्रम्।" शाङ्करभाष्यम्।
"वाकोवाक्यं प्रश्नोत्तररूपं वेदवाक्यम् । "
याज्ञवलक्यस्मृतौ व्याख्या।
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A History of Indian Philosophy Volume 1 (by Surendranath Dasgupta)
Part 2 - Nyāya and Vaiśeṣika sūtras < [Chapter VIII - The Nyāya-Vaiśeṣika Philosophy]
disputation was regarded even then as a subject of study, and it probably passed then by the name of vākovākya
vākovākyam | वाकोवाक्यम् = तर्कशास्त्रम् q. v.; Ch. Up.7.1.2.
https://www.sanskritdictionary.com/?q=v%C4%81kyam |
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Dear Veeranarayana Pandurangi,according to Böhtlingk’s PW vāká- refers to ‘Spruch, Recitation, Formel im Ritus’ (Apte ‘speech, uttering’), a specific kind of expression destined for the ritual context. Alfred Ludwig (forthcoming) translates the whole stanza:“by the gâyatra-metre he measures the arka,by the arka the sâma, by the trišṭubh-metre the vâka |by the vâka, that has two feet, the vâka that has four (read: catušpadam);by the mora he measures the seven modes of singing || 24 ||”Best,RS
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Raik Strunz, M.A.
Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter
Email: raik....@indologie.uni-halle.de
Tel.: +49 345 / 55 23655
Martin-Luther-Universität Halle-Wittenberg
Institut für Altertumswissenschaften
Seminar für Indologie
Emil-Abderhalden-Straße 9
D-06108 Halle (Saale)
>>> Veeranarayana Pandurangi via INDOLOGY <indo...@list.indology.info> 24.07.19 16.01 Uhr >>>
Dear friends,I am baffled by meaning of Vaaka that appears in RV १,१६४.२४ गायत्रेण प्रति मिमीते अर्कमर्केण साम त्रैष्टुभेन वाकम् ।१,१६४.२४ वाकेन वाकं द्विपदा चतुष्पदाक्षरेण मिमते सप्त वाणीः ॥
It is also found in MB
“यं वाकेष्वनुवाकेषु निषत्सूपनिषत्सु च । गृणन्ति सत्यकर्म्माणं सत्यं सत्येेेेषु सामनि।
I request all of you to kindly Enlighten me.
I have seen S Jamison translation with no use.
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Jan E.M. Houben
Directeur d'Études, Professor of South Asian History and Philology
Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite
École Pratique des Hautes Études (EPHE, PSL - Université Paris)
Sciences historiques et philologiques
54, rue Saint-Jacques, CS 20525 – 75005 Paris
Dear Dr. Houben,“this first complete translation of the Rgveda [.] now being translated into English” is actually Ludwig’s very own translation of the Rigveda into English.He made it in 1885–86 and 1893 (Maṇḍala IX.). Thanks to Prof. Slaje I got the chance to edit and publish this translation from Ludwig’s manuscript that had been bought ca. 1912 onto Oxford, possibly by then Boden Professor Macdonell (based on a comparison of the secondary page count in the ms. with Macdonell’s handwritten numbers in an earlier letter). On some occasions we could find that it differs to his German translation, rarely giving information about exegetical sources he newly consulted. So Ludwig did even after his release of the German translation and the commentaries further on consult this secondary literature, perhaps we should interprete the English RV translation as an update to his German one (also he now counted the hymns in the established manner, not anymore in his very own way by sorting them anew}.Maṇḍalas I–V will be published this year in a first volume, and the other five will also come out some time over the next few years.Best,Raik Strunz
–––––––––––
Raik Strunz, M.A.
Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter
Email: raik....@indologie.uni-halle.de
Tel.: +49 345 / 55 23655
Martin-Luther-Universität Halle-Wittenberg
Institut für Altertumswissenschaften
Seminar für Indologie
Emil-Abderhalden-Straße 9
D-06108 Halle (Saale)
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सर॑स्वत्यै॒ स्वाहा॑ ॥
>>> "Jan E.M. Houben" <jemh...@gmail.com> 28.07.19 13.12 Uhr >>>
for example this translation by Ludwig
“by the gâyatra-metre he measures the arka,
by the arka the sâma, by the trišṭubh-metre the vâka |
by the vâka, that has two feet, the vâka that has four (read: catušpadam);
by the mora he measures the seven modes of singing || 24 ||”
is largely based on Sayana who is about measuring. परिच्छिनत्ति or संमितान् करोति is the word.
how one is measuring arka by gayatri metre? what arka? how measuring sama by arka? how can one measure vaka by tristubh metre? which two feet vaka? which four feet vaka? by what mora which seven seven modes of singing?
how prati mimite relates to measuring?
Houben’s translation of 1.164.24 too suffers from same problem-
With gayatri (line) one makes the song of praise (arka): with the song of praise a chant, with the tristubh (line) the recitation. With the two and four lined recitation (one makes again a larger) recitation; according to the SYLLABLEthey make the sven VOICES
Why and how gayatri line alone is making a song of praise? Why other metre lines are not doing this? Why one making chant by full arka rather than a simple line? Why recitation is made by tristubh lines and not other lines? What kind of recitation is this? Recitions can be made of even a sentence without metre. Why making a larger recitation only by two and four lined recitations? Why not with three five six or hundred line recitations? Why “according” is added here when it is not understood in previous lines? What are the seven voices? (this is guessed as voices belonging to seven priests) why one seven voices? Not hundred voices? (Even a single voice too made according to syllable)
How prati mimite refers to “make”
There are somany uses of prati mi (ma)
किं स ऋधक्कृणवद्यं सहस्रं मासो जभार शरदश्च पूर्वीः । नही न्वस्य प्रतिमानमस्त्यन्तर्जातेषूत ये जनित्वाः ॥४,०१८.०४ इति, प्र तुविद्युम्नस्य स्थविरस्य घृष्वेर्दिवो ररप्शे महिमा पृथिव्याः । नास्य शत्रुर्न प्रतिमानमस्ति न प्रतिष्ठिः पुरुमायस्य सह्योः ॥६,०१८.१२ त्वमस्य पारे रजसो व्योमनः स्वभूत्योजा अवसे धृषन्मनः । चकृषे भूमिं प्रतिमानमोजसोऽपः स्वः परिभूरेष्या दिवम् ॥ त्वं भुवः प्रतिमानं पृथिव्या ऋष्ववीरस्य बृहतः पतिर्भूः । विश्वमाप्रा अन्तरिक्षं महित्वा सत्यमद्धा नकिरन्यस्त्वावान् ॥१,०५२. १२-१३ गोजिता बाहू अमितक्रतुः सिमः कर्मन्कर्मञ्छतमूतिः खजङ्करः । अकल्प इन्द्रः प्रतिमानमोजसाथा जना वि ह्वयन्ते सिषासवः ॥ १,१०२.०६ त्रिविष्टिधातु प्रतिमानमोजसस्तिस्रो भूमीर्नृपते त्रीणि रोचना । अतीदं विश्वं भुवनं ववक्षिथाशत्रुरिन्द्र जनुषा सनादसि ॥१,१०२.०८ यो विश्वस्य प्रतिमानं बभूव यो अच्युतच्युत्स जनास इन्द्रः ॥२,०१२.०९ आपान्तमन्युस्तृपलप्रभर्मा धुनिः शिमीवाञ्छरुमां ऋजीषी । सोमो विश्वान्यतसा वनानि नार्वागिन्द्रं प्रतिमानानि देभुः ॥ (१०,०८९.०५) न अर्वाक् इन्द्रम् प्रतिमानानि दभ्नुवन्ति, यैर् एनम् प्रतिमिमते न एनम् तानि दभ्नुवन्त्य् अर्वाक् एव एनम् अप्राप्य विनश्यन्ति इति निरुक्तम्। इन्द्रो दिवः प्रतिमानं पृथिव्या विश्वा वेद सवना हन्ति शुष्णम् । महीं चिद्द्यामातनोत्सूर्येण चास्कम्भ चित्कम्भनेन स्कभीयान् ॥ (१०,१११.०५) स्तुषेय्यं पुरुवर्पसमृभ्वमिनतममाप्त्यमाप्त्यानाम् । आ दर्षते शवसा सप्त दानून्प्र साक्षते प्रतिमानानि भूरि ॥ (१०,१२०.०६) वि सूर्यो मध्ये अमुचद्रथं दिवो विदद्दासाय प्रतिमानमार्यः । दृळ्हानि पिप्रोरसुरस्य मायिन इन्द्रो व्यास्यच्चकृवां ऋजिश्वना ॥ (१०,१३८.०३)
Why aksara means syllable? When it is used in different meaning in same context ऋचो अक्षरे परमे व्योमन्यस्मिन्देवा अधि विश्वे निषेदुः । यस्तन्न वेद किमृचा करिष्यति य इत्तद्विदुस्त इमे समासते ॥(१,१६४.३९) This mantra apparently does not refer to Syllable, because a person who does not know syllable can not know Rk. Then what is the fun of censuring such a person “what one will do with Rks if he does not know syllable”
How those who know Aksara sit comfortably? Everybody knows syllables. What is speciality of this Syllable?
Again the translation of 1.164.23 by Houben raises this question--
“That the Gayatri (line) is based on the Gayatri (hymn) (the smaller on the larger unit, rather than the other way round), and that the Tristubh (line) is fashioned of Tristubh (hymn) and that the Jagati LINE is based on the Jagati (hymn): only those who know this have attained immortality”
Why only three metres are quoted here? When the concept is that smaller part is derived from larger. Why Pada means only line and not anything line तद्विष्णोः परमं पदं सदा पश्यन्ति सूरयः । दिवीव चक्षुराततम् ॥ १,०२२.२० तद्विप्रासो विपन्यवो जागृवांसः समिन्धते । विष्णोर्यत्परमं पदम् ॥ १,०२२.२१
The bigger questione is How one attains amrtatva by knowing this base of hymns?
Jamison translation is same as Houben. It does not make much sense.