Hyperbaric oxygen therapy and Pranayam

[Satish Kumar Dogra]

Dear friends,

                       Modern researches show that an increased supply of blood to the body cells results in rejuvenation of damaged body cells and consequent recovery from serious diseases. This process is different from slower-aging: it is reversal of the aging process.

The hyperbaric oxygen technique seems to be a modern version of pranayam. The practice of pranayam increases the 'prana-vayu' in the body. It, thus, produces the effects that are now sought to be produced by HBOT (Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy). This technique stimulates the production of omnipotent stem cells in the part of the body where the tissue is damaged. These stems cells in the presence of increased supply of oxygen repair the damaged tissue by producing healthy cells.

As it is, my exercise routine has for many years now integrated principles of pranayam with aerobic exercises. But now I am trying to re-discover pranayamic techniques that would give the benefits of HBOT. I would be glad to associate with others who might be working on similar techniques. My mobile number is: 9840093148.

Regards,

Dogra

============================================
Read my websites:
Sanskrit: dograindia.org
English: satishkumardogra.com

Tamil: dogratamil.com

My contact number:
+91 98400 93148

[Satish Kumar Dogra]

Sorry, one typo in the very first sentence: it should be 'increased supply of oxygen in the cells'.

============================================
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My contact number:
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[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Are you a doctor who is practicing traditional medicine? If so it ok if not Please don’t post advertisements here thanks

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[Vijaya Rani]

I am sorry to say this, Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy, apart from its usefulness in treatment for decompression (among divers) and an increase in mobilization of stem cells, is a questionable science at best (at least as far as it being a panacea). 

Regarding the statement made by Dogra ji, "The hyperbaric oxygen technique seems to be a modern version of pranayam", it is incorrect and not very helpful. First of all, HBOT involves nearly three times the ambient atmospheric pressures (i.e. 3 atm = 3*10^6 Pa). Human lungs can barely generate a pressure differential of 10 - 15 kPa. That is a couple of orders of magnitudes of difference. So, no amount of pranayam/yoga is going to make up for that.

And lastly, as an aside, for anybody interested, prANa is actually exhalation and apAna is inhalation. So, despite us calling oxygen the prANa-vAyu, it should technically be called apAna-vayu, as it is apAna that is rich in oxygen and prANa is rich in carbon dioxide. The reason we call (or associate) prANa to be the breath of life is because we can check if a person is alive by sensing one's exhalation (i.e. prANa).

vidvat-jana-anuyAyI bhavadIyah,

Vijaya Rani

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Vijaya Rani

[Vijaya Rani]

And, one more thing, this post seems like a blatant self-promotion. I am no fan of censoring, but we (as in bvparishat) should have a basic screening mechanism to filter out such threads.

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Vijaya Rani

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

I had posted on this thread before. Please see my post thanks

[Satish Kumar Dogra]

Dear Shri Gangeshwari and Vijaya Rani,

                                                                   Yesterday when, in response to my post, Shri Gangeshwari Ji reacted by calling it 'advertisement' I took it in all humility as a violation of the rules of this Forum. However, now that I find a wider reaction building to my post, I wish, in complete intellectual honesty, to question this attitude.

To my mind Sanskrit and its study havd value if we are able to dig into the ancient scriptures and find useful techniques for healthy and meaningful living. If I find that a certain technique being used by modern researchers is akin to Pranayam and, if my practice of it gives benefits, and if I would like to know whether people who are well-versed in Sanskrit texts can throw more light on the practice and we could together recapture these techniques for the benefit of the members of this Group and for the benefit of humanity at large, then in what way have I indulged in self-promotion or advertisement?

Does my post in any way give an indication that I have developed a technique that I would like to sell for a price? I have simply asked if there are members on this Forum who are aware of subteties of the techniques of Pranayam, through practice or through study of scriptures, who could associate with me, so that we could together carry the re-discovery of the techniques further.

When Shri Gangeshwari reacted, I remained quiet. But why I am now responding to this is because as a sincere member of this Forum I am keen to know whether this Forum has space for such discussions where we might together build up practical implications of what we find in the scriptures.

Mind you, the Westerner is already converting OUR Pranayam into HIS HBOT technique, and if we do not wake up and re-discover our ancient techniques, we might find ourselves in another Polock-type controversy where we would blame the Westerns for taking our ideas and making them theirs. They shall, if we don't.

This post is written with the utmost sincerity of creating healthy atmosphere of discussion and honest intellectual pursuits.

Regards,

Dogra

============================================
Read my websites:
Sanskrit: dograindia.org
English: satishkumardogra.com

Tamil: dogratamil.com

My contact number:
+91 98400 93148

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

You have the right to discuss but not promote spurious beliefs and un needed extrapolation more than facts can support. Please don’t post HIS HBOT and such other techniques unless you are qualified doctor with a license to promote such claims. Thanks for your understanding.

[Satish Kumar Dogra]

Gangeshwari Ji,

                            I think we need to agree to disagree, because we seem to have different ways of approaching issues. While I agree that a qualified doctor is the best person to deal with medical issues, I also know that Maharishi Patanjali most likely did not possess a medical degree. Freud, when he gave his path-breaking discoveries about the Unconscious, was a physician and not a trained psychologist. And Pavlov discovered Conditioning when he was a physiologist working on the production of saliva in response to various types of food.

I shall bow to your command and not discuss issues other than those strictly connected with Sanskrit language and literature. But let me share with you and others that I do believe in straying into other areas. I started as a man of literature, but by now I have learnt enough to produce software. So, here I share with you my Easy Learn Geeta, with a request to popularise it, so that more and more people might benefit from the facility.

I would also be glad if others could join me in capturing data for this and other similar programs for presenting to readers our scriptures in easy format.

Regards,

Dogra

============================================
Read my websites:
Sanskrit: dograindia.org
English: satishkumardogra.com

Tamil: dogratamil.com

My contact number:
+91 98400 93148

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

I am not a General and I have no commands to make.  Did I ask you to bow down no I did not.

Another note

“Mind you, the Westerner is already converting OUR Pranayam into HIS HBOT technique, and if we do not wake up and re-discover our ancient techniques, we might find ourselves in another Polock-type controversy where we would blame the Westerns for taking our ideas and making them theirs. They shall, if we don't. “

Please don’t write about any scholar in this manner. Please give all the respect they deserve. What do you mean Pollock-type controversy. Has he taken any Indian techniques and made any patented drug I don’t think so. Don’t drag names and individuals when there is no need.

 

“So, here I share with you my Easy Learn Geeta, with a request to popularise it, so that more and more people might benefit from the facility.

I would also be glad if others could join me in capturing data for this and other similar programs for presenting to readers our scriptures in easy format. “

I hope more and more people join your crusade.

[Satish Kumar Dogra]

Gangeshwari Ji,

                            I think at the end of this dialog, we are both on clearer ground, and I am sure this will be for the good of the Forum. I must thank you for your understanding.

At the bottom of this mail I am giving the link to Easy Learn Geeta. 

A few points for the scholars:

While giving meanings, I have tried to break the shlokah into meaningful expressions --- semantic groups, as modern linguists might say. Secondly, I have tried to give word-for-word meanings, so that the reader might be able to match the word and the meaning. This often results in distortion of the syntax, as the English and the Sanskrit syntax do not match. My target is the person who knows Hindi and can easily make a jump to Sanskrit, even if he is not taught much grammar. I wish to popularise Sanskrit by pulling into our circle those who are keen to learn the language but have the initial hesitation.

In the Explanations section on the right I have given some essential grammar and my interpretation of the given shlokah.

I shall be glad to get the feedback and advice of the scholars on the Forum on how to further improve the facility.

Scholars may also contact me on my phone: 9840093148.

Here is the link:

http://dogratamil.com/geeta_2/geeta_2.html

Regards,

Dogra

============================================
Read my websites:
Sanskrit: dograindia.org
English: satishkumardogra.com

Tamil: dogratamil.com

My contact number:
+91 98400 93148

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Sure Please post with corrected subject line

[Satish Kumar Dogra]

Vijaya Ji,

                 Thanks for your views. The idea that building up pressure through pranayam might not be possible came to my mind also. That is why I thought perhaps there are techniques of pranayam that might be able to achieve this. I have been developing my own techniques that perhaps simulate this to some extent. My post was primarily out of a keen desire that perhaps there is someone out there among this group of experts who might be able to quote a certain text and say, "This is what it is !" I have often seen Mr. Subramania Korda, the encyclopedia of Sanskrit, come up with such absolutely-to-the-point quotations from scriptures.

HBOT is certainly more than just experimentation. Concrete results through MRI have been obtained. Since the results achieved tally with the references to a 10000-year life in our scriptures, it tempts me to think that some methods of pranayam, now lost to us, can perhaps give us those techniques.

During the past four decades, my experiments with the techniques in Yog Sutras have produced dramatic results. This gives me the confidence that there is a lot in our scriptures that is now lost to us, but, which once re-discovered, can revolutionise life.

I agree with Gangeshwari Ji that logically a doctor alone should talk of medical issues, but somehow, my experience of past several years shows that, when you pursue something with dedication, you develop a power of intuition that leads you to results. ऋतम्भरा तत्र प्रज्ञा।

Regards,

Dogra

============================================
Read my websites:
Sanskrit: dograindia.org
English: satishkumardogra.com

Tamil: dogratamil.com

My contact number:
+91 98400 93148

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

There is no biological reason to believe that it works, and there is no published scientific literature on this topic. The fact that these physicians were electing not to publish this is also very suspicious - in general that means they are concerned about the rigors of the scientific review process by their peers. In addition hyperbaric oxygen, kind of like stem cells, are at this time a typical "scam" industry where they advertise to people with conditions that have no cure. I doubt it would cause harm, outside of your wallet and perhaps false hopes. At the end it would be your decision of course.

 

As per Indian Yoga practice, in praanayama we used to control only breathing process not the intake of oxygen.

 

Hence was my remark a doctor alone should talk of medical issues As this list has predominantly Sanskrit and Indological scholars. This list might not be right place

 

This is a news paper article of HBOT

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/pune/Oxygen-therapy-promises-faster-healing-of-wounds/articleshow/18142493.cms

Here is another View

http://www.indiadiets.com/Alternative%20Healing/Oxygen_Ozone_therapy.htm

 

Another Link

https://sarasgarden.org/services/hyperbaric-oxygen-therapy/

 

Here is a discussion

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Can_oxygen_therapy_have_a_good_impact_on_restoring_the_state_of_human_health

 

Another discussion

 

https://cadasil.forumchitchat.com/post/hyperbaric-oxygen-therapy-hbot-to-reduce-cadasil-symptoms-5850566

 

 

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Satish Kumar Dogra

Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 12:40 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Hyperbaric oxygen therapy and Pranayam

[Satish Kumar Dogra]

Gangeshwari Ji,

                           Thanks for the links. I understand the risks involved in such experiments with one's body, and whatever I try I shall take precautions. But I certainly plan to go into the Sanskrit texts that deal with pranayam, and whenever I need help of the scholars in understanding them, I shall take the liberty of asking for explanations on this Forum.

Regards,

Dogra

============================================
Read my websites:
Sanskrit: dograindia.org
English: satishkumardogra.com

Tamil: dogratamil.com

My contact number:
+91 98400 93148

[vishal jaiswal]

100% real practical yoga always remained a secret, being passed on
from guru to deserving disciples. It cannot be found in scriptures or
any written works which remain mere pointers or vague references that
cannot be reconstructed to even closely approximate the real thing.
So the question of either the west (or the east for that matter)
laying claim to something from such sources is irrelevant.


On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 11:26 AM, Satish Kumar Dogra

[Sivasenani Nori]

Sir

I am thinking aloud here whether "blatant self-promotion" is to be avoided and whether we react the same way when other such posts which could be categorised as "blatant self-promotion". We have scholars posting notices about seminars, books published by their institutions and themselves, events conducted by organizations the scholars are associated with, interviews of their own selves and their articles in media, poetry and so on. Surely, some element of "blatant self-promotion" is involved in all this. So why do we react to only some posts? My observation, open to refinement and correction, is that while we are agreeable to posts of the nature of self-promotion if the information contained is useful or potentially useful to others, we seem to be very concerned about any commercial gain to the poster, book-promotion by authors being the big exception. 

Even if we take these implict conditions - usefulness of information and commercial gain - the post of Sri Satish Dogra is similar to other posts. The information about Pranayama helping increase the supply of oxygen to cells is indeed useful. Some people do not have faith in Yoga / prANAyAma and a modern scientific application is useful to convince such people. By "some people", I don't necessarily mean those on BVP, but even those known to BVP members; this kind of information is indeed useful for BVP members in discussion with those without faith in Yoga. 

Secondly, Sri Dogra's invitation to connect might have sounded like a solicitation, but a man of his stature need not resort to these activities for commercial gain. He retired as the Director General of Police in Tamil Nadu. Of course, this fact might not be known to you and you might have reacted generally. And, I do agree that this kind of language is often used by conmen nowadays.

Still my submission is that, since we will inevitably err sometime or the other, let us make an effort to err on the side of caution.

To the Parishat in general, I have a couple of submissions to ponder over:

1. Is Sri Ajit Gargeshwari the moderator of the List or is he only advising other members as a member? When I checked BVP page of Google Groups (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/bvparishat) there is only an email ID corresponding to a moderator.

2. Assuming he is a member of the Moderator Group, is this a fit case for "spurious belief"? Consider:

Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT)  involves breathing 100% pure oxygen (the atmospheric air contains about 21% ) effectively increasing the supply of oxygen to lung, and thereby to every cell of the body (as blood reaches every cell, and blood carries oxygen to the cells). In prANAyAma, a similar efffect is produced differently. Typically the lungs of an average adult can hold 6 liters of  air. In each breath, we recycle about half-a-liter - this is called "tidal volume". Now, prANAyAma increases the tidal volume, i.e helps us take deeper breathes. How much is this increase? I have not seen systematic studies measuring this, but say it increases to 1 liter to 1.5 liters - as there are so many varities of prANAyAma. So in effect, the supply of oxygen is doubled or tripled, whereas HBOT would theoretically qunitiple the supply of oxygen. Then broadly speaking, two or two and a half hours of prANAyAma may equal one hour of HBOT, without the fancy equipment that HBOT requires, and with an additional advantage of having been tried, tested and proven safe over centuries.

I do hope that the Bharatiya Vidvat Parishad treats learned scholars and individuals who have contributed significantly to society considerately.

Regards

N. Siva Senani

[Satish Kumar Dogra]

Shri Siva Senani Nori,

                                     When I was DIG of Tanjavur way back in late 1990s, I was invited for a school function in a small village near Miyladuthurai. There the 76-year old yoga-teacher of the school (who looked like a man in his fifties) gave a demonstration of pranayam which at that I thought was wrong, but now the encounter with HBOT brings back to my mind. He literally pumped in air into his lungs, perhaps creating an over-supply of oxygen as well as some pressure. After this he breathed deep and held the breath. This is exactly what the HBOT people seem to be doing. They give an excess of oxygen and then bring the quantity down and this seems to provoke the generation of omnipotent stem cells.

So, there does seem to be something that needs to be tried and explored.

Regards,

Dogra

============================================
Read my websites:
Sanskrit: dograindia.org
English: satishkumardogra.com

Tamil: dogratamil.com

My contact number:
+91 98400 93148

[Shrivathsa B]

hariH OM,

   About the issue of moderatorship, things were clarified a few months ago. As far as I remember, Mr. Ajit isn't a moderator.

   I also felt that his reaction to Mr. Dogra's post was excessive.

स्वस्ति,
      भवानीभारती जयतेतमाम्,
                                   श्रीवत्सः ॥

[Nityanand Misra]

On Tuesday, 26 July 2016 22:39:23 UTC+5:30, Vijaya krishna Rani wrote:

And lastly, as an aside, for anybody interested, prANa is actually exhalation and apAna is inhalation. So, despite us calling oxygen the prANa-vAyu, it should technically be called apAna-vayu, as it is apAna that is rich in oxygen and prANa is rich in carbon dioxide.

This mapping (prāṇa=exhalation and apāna=inhalation) makes sense only in specific contexts like that of BG 5.27 (prāṇāpānau samau ktvā ...). In the general, larger context of five prāṇa-s (vital forces), prāṇa is the vital force in the heart, apāna in the gudā (rectum), samāna in the nābhi (navel), udāna in the throat, and vyāna in the whole body. When Dogra Ji mentioned that prāṇāyāma increases prāṇāvāyu, he may have had the general context in mind. I do not think he meant oxygen by prāṇa (I may be corrected if he did).

In addition, disagreeing with Ajit Ji and Vijaya Krishna Rani Ji, I do not see any self-promotion in the original post. IMHO, asking like minded people to connect over an area of interest does not amount to self-promotion.

[Bijoy Misra]

There is a whole group in Bangaluru  http://vyasa.org/

They have been active for a long time.

Research on Pranayama or medical benefits can be referred to them.

They did a Conf in association with Harvard Medical School last month.

They would be deeply interested in the findings as reported.

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

I never said Pranayama is not beneficial and is not a science it is an exact science and researches conducted by SVYASA and other organisation are high quality research. My serious doubts and objection are towards Hyperbaric Oxygen therapy. I did provide all the possible links I could get from the google . Experts in various forums have clearly said there are no published works on the befits of Pranayama in the context Hyper Oxygen therapy. I hope all agree as there scholars in this list Prana does not mean air we breathe and pranayama does not mean breathing exercises. Similarly Yoga does not mean physical exercises in isolation.  A person whatever his capacity he might be in or might have served may at times get misled. Its best to leave treatments to doctors. A doctor can be Aurvedic, Yoaga specialists traditional therapists etc. Even they are doctors.  I don’t understand why we often get edgy and propose doubtful or unproven methods and keep saying again and again our Vedas say that or our sages said that. Enormous progress were achieved by ancient Indian in all fields including yoga and pranayama no one doubts that nor do I.

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

 

[Satish Kumar Dogra]

Keeping my personal post out of the picture, I would like to say it as a general remark that we should not be sensitive to 'personal promotion', unless it is done with a crass commercial motive.

Does posting one's interview or a link to one's article amount to personal promotion? I don't think so. What is it that such a person is seeking to achieve through such effort? Is he expecting to get business or some other pecuniary benefits? I don't think so.

Links are often given with the good inention of sharing one's work with the members of the BVParishad  family. Even when such a link carries a tinge of "Look, I have done something big !" it is with the sense of pride among one's family-members, and not with the haughty feeling of showing others down.

When I saw Shri Nityanand Misra Ji's interview on Vaartavali, my respect for him increased severalfold. Look, here is a man doing a big job and also a devotee of Sanskrit, I said to myself. Yesterday I interacted with a doctor who is a great devotee of Sanskrit. That makes me proud of Sanskrit. It gives me the good feeling that Sanskrit has in its fold persons of achievement in various fields. 

I say all this, so that the Forum does not get vitiated against sharing one's achievements. When someone shares his or her achievements, we should feel proud, as he or she is a member of the BVParishad family.

As I said, an exception should be made of crass commercial promotion --- but has such promotion been witnessed on this Forum in the past? Not that I know.

Regards,

Dogra

============================================
Read my websites:
Sanskrit: dograindia.org
English: satishkumardogra.com

Tamil: dogratamil.com

My contact number:
+91 98400 93148

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

I agree in principle to what you say now.. There is no question of me being sensitive or insensitive. I expressed my views in the way I know to express. The list or me are not vitiated against any one sharing any information but I may never agree to the information shared and one can express ones disagreement or can debate on the need to share such information. Highlighting controversial use of drugs therapies etc without me or the list by itself being qualified to pass views may be debated. It’s always best to keep away from exaggerated claims made by many on knowledge possessed by our ancients.

 

With this note we can move further on this and other discussions. Thank you for responding to my posts

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Satish Kumar Dogra

Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 5:31 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Hyperbaric oxygen therapy and Pranayam

[Bijoy Misra]

The principal criticism in the west against the modern Indian scholars has been that

they do not fully analyze before expressing.  By discarding the Indian scholars,

then the westerns make their own more nonsensical interpretation.

To create "knowledge" out of "experience": is the key.   SriKrishna said

several thousand years ago. The process of "discovery" in India has

been claimed as "intuitive" which to my mind is a label created by the west.

Everything that has come down as knowledge is expected to have centuries of

empirical experimentation which need be re-simulated.  Of course it is hard!

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear Shrivathsaji,

It is not necessary that we agree to everything Ajitji says and I too find that sometimes he had been overstrict, but in the present case I agree with him in the sense that hyperventilation is a very serious thing and the pH of blood may change abnormally causing distress in breathing, and eventually causing heartt problem. Any hyperventilation exercise must be done under expert supervision only and that too for a very limited time.

Regards,

skb

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

I have seen my closes friend dying believing teaching him Kumbhaka and other advanced pranamaya techniques without his instructor being adequately qualified in such advanced techniques. His advisor was a good Sanskrit scholar and had read a few books but gave him wrong instructions. Its best when you are dealing with your body be with doctors or qualified traditional experts, instead of trying to read a few books and simply start believing them considering one to be the champion of Sanskrit cause and savoir on Indian culture and knowledge. I have nothing more to add than this.

 

I agree also to the view one persons personal experience cannot be a judge for universal acceptance or make one change his or her view. All views are always welcome

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

[Vijaya Rani]

Dear Dogra ji,

My intention was not to censor you or your right to post here at all. I was (may be wrongly) of the opinion that you were advertizing, as it is rare to find posts here that ask to contact someone by phone instead of engaging in a discussion here. Now, I admit I was a bit presumptuous and I apologize for that, but I hope you understand why I got that impression.

As for the merits of the scientific basis for HBOT and/or its relation to prANAyAma, that is a different matter altogether, and I gave my opinion without any bias. 

Thank you

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Vijaya Rani

[BVKSastry(Gmail)]

Namaste

 

Here is  one   primary and basic doubt  that haunts such pointers on Yoga-Research !? connecting  Yoga - Pranayama and Oxygen ! related research claims ; and quoted as  validation  for  Practices linked to Patanjali Yoga-Sutra 2-49 to 51.

 

The source text of Patanajli does not seem to carry even a single word of technical nature to  connect  with the ‘ Three section breathing / Hyperbaric Oxygen’ – issues’.   

 

1.  Patanjali Yoga Sutra  2-49 to 51 speaks of  YOGAANGA and within that ‘ Prana –Aayaama’ (Expansion of Prana)   for a goal of   ‘unmasking the blocking elements  to empower the light of consciousness to shine forth (2-52)’.  This is the test of  successful  Pranayama .

 

2. Pranayama practice  carries a  Precondition of ‘Aasana’ (posture) which need to deliver   a state of ‘ Tranquility of mind’  (2-48 and 2-49 read together : Tasmin dvandava –anabhighate sati). 

 

   The  ‘ Pranayama prescribed under the Yogaanga section   ( with all its diversity of numbers, length of breath, place .. in 2- 50 ) has a pre and post condition of physicality and mind set and a goal set for practice. It does not carry any reference to Oxygen part of Air!  The talk is about the impact of Breath-variations on faculties of Mind in experiencing the ‘ states and shades  of consciousness’.

 

3. Technically  ‘Prana’ is NOT just OXYGEN  or the gaseous mixture called  ‘Air’ !   and ‘ Pranayama –<shvasa-ucchvasa – nishvasa> is not limited to  ‘Breath regulation’ . 

 

     The Concept of ‘ Prana’ is NOT a postulate of Modern medical science . There are no known  physical instruments to sense and measure Prana !  Neither < PRana> is an equivalent of  ‘Energy –Consciousness  (Dravya –Chetana> ’ talks in Advanced Physics !

 

Such being the ‘ oranges and apples’  difference between traditional concept of ‘Prana’  in Yoga / Yogaanga,  in contrast to the ‘Harvard   Medical research’  which focuses on ‘Breathing – Lung functionality – lobe and belly filling -  numeric variation of breath length –pace, mix  and intensity issues impacting Body  and Brain functions,  How are we to understand  the < Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy > as Science validating Yoga ?

 

Unless I seem to be missing something …. And am I  confused  over <Body functionality>  to  < breathing – regulation and modulation > as exclusive measure of < Prana>  and <Brain functionality> to be mapped to < Chitta Vrutti>??

 

I am aware that the ‘ traditional practices of current nature of Pranayama-  as seen in schools and studios of Yoga ( Breath regulation in a forced way with  multiple postures and mudra –finger locks) aiming to create ‘personal sensation-feel ’   as well as ritual practices ( Pranayama as holding the nose with fingers with a mantra repetition ?!) are seriously distorted practices, failing the standards set by Patanajli for ‘ Pranayama’.  This is one standing example of failure to understand the Samkruth word  <Pranayama> in the <Yoga way> asking the simple one liner: What is Pranayma unifying as breath regulation:   What is the Yoga? What s Prana-Yoga ?  What is unified with what ?  

 

A wrong practice does not give enough justification to interpret a source text inaccurately or map research of one domain to another inadvertently.

 

 

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

 

 

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bijoy Misra
Sent: Wednesday, 27 July, 2016 6:45 AM
To: Bharatiya Vidvat parishad
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Hyperbaric oxygen therapy and Pranayam

 

There is a whole group in Bangaluru  http://vyasa.org/

They have been active for a long time.

Research on Pranayama or medical benefits can be referred to them.

They did a Conf in association with Harvard Medical School last month.

They would be deeply interested in the findings as reported.

On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 5:21 AM, Shrivathsa B <shrivath...@gmail.com> wrote:

hariH OM,

   About the issue of moderatorship, things were clarified a few months ago. As far as I remember, Mr. Ajit isn't a moderator.

   I also felt that his reaction to Mr. Dogra's post was excessive.

स्वस्ति,
      भवानीभारती जयतेतमाम्,
                                   श्रीवत्सः ॥

On 27-Jul-2016 14:35, "Satish Kumar Dogra" <dogra...@gmail.com> wrote:

Shri Siva Senani Nori,

                                     When I was DIG of Tanjavur way back in late 1990s, I was invited for a school function in a small village near Miyladuthurai. There the 76-year old yoga-teacher of the school (who looked like a man in his fifties) gave a demonstration of pranayam which at that I thought was wrong, but now the encounter with HBOT brings back to my mind. He literally pumped in air into his lungs, perhaps creating an over-supply of oxygen as well as some pressure. After this he breathed deep and held the breath. This is exactly what the HBOT people seem to be doing. They give an excess of oxygen and then bring the quantity down and this seems to provoke the generation of omnipotent stem cells.

So, there does seem to be something that needs to be tried and explored.

Regards,

Dogra

 

 

On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 2:18 PM, Sivasenani Nori <sivas...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Satish Kumar Dogra]

Dear Shri Shastri,

                              Thanks for your elaborate discussion. I believe all of us must discuss things threadbare and share knowledge as well as experience to arrive at useful techniques that might benefit us and the society.

I have developed a certain practice that simulates the HBOT and gives good benefits to the body and the brain. It improves mental and physical agility, and seems to sharpen the memory. I have been looking for Sanskrit texts that might describe different types of pranayama techniques, so that I might sharpen and fine-tune my technique. That was the purpose of my post. Since this is a Forum with great scholars, I thought someone might come up with some text that describes a pranayama similar to what I practice.

As for Yog Sutras, I take it as a treatise on the flow of electric impulses through the neurons and, more particularly, the bunches of neurons called chakras. I have benefited tremendously from the practices in the Yog Sutras and have fair amount of clarity about these practices.

Now, my focus is on pranayam. Can a further fine-tuning of the pranayam I practice help derive the type of benefits that Yog Sutras has given --- that is the question that impelled me to put up my post.

I believe that a practitioner can re-discover our ancient techniques better than the doctors. The doctors are bound by the theories learnt by them. The practitioner is a free-bird who brings a totally new approach to the issues.

Regards,

Dogra 

============================================
Read my websites:
Sanskrit: dograindia.org
English: satishkumardogra.com

Tamil: dogratamil.com

My contact number:
+91 98400 93148

--

[Bijoy Misra]

Dear Satishji,

You are putting a strange argument.  Validation of an experience or a hypothesis 

is not achieved by posting it in a scholarly forum.  You should write it up fully

as a scholarly paper and post.  People who may fathom your description,

might be able to suggest or advise.  

Regarding Ram's hypothesis I have the similar opinion.  It has to be articulated

completely with its logic and expertly commented upon by people who might 

understand the vocabulary.

Arbitrary lay comments with wikipaedia as reference simply mock the discipline 

in either case.

Best regards,

Bijoy Misra     

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

I agree with Arbitrary lay comments with wikipaedia as reference simply mock the discipline 

in either case.

 

Further comments should be posted if there is sufficient data

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bijoy Misra
Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 5:34 PM
To: Bharatiya Vidvat parishad
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Hyperbaric oxygen therapy and Pranayam

 

Dear Satishji,

 

You are putting a strange argument.  Validation of an experience or a hypothesis 

is not achieved by posting it in a scholarly forum.  You should write it up fully

as a scholarly paper and post.  People who may fathom your description,

might be able to suggest or advise.  

 

Regarding Ram's hypothesis I have the similar opinion.  It has to be articulated

completely with its logic and expertly commented upon by people who might 

understand the vocabulary.

 

Arbitrary lay comments with wikipaedia as reference simply mock the discipline 

in either case.

 

Best regards,

Bijoy Misra     

On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 5:24 AM, Satish Kumar Dogra <dogra...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Shri Shastri,

                              Thanks for your elaborate discussion. I believe all of us must discuss things threadbare and share knowledge as well as experience to arrive at useful techniques that might benefit us and the society.

I have developed a certain practice that simulates the HBOT and gives good benefits to the body and the brain. It improves mental and physical agility, and seems to sharpen the memory. I have been looking for Sanskrit texts that might describe different types of pranayama techniques, so that I might sharpen and fine-tune my technique. That was the purpose of my post. Since this is a Forum with great scholars, I thought someone might come up with some text that describes a pranayama similar to what I practice.

As for Yog Sutras, I take it as a treatise on the flow of electric impulses through the neurons and, more particularly, the bunches of neurons called chakras. I have benefited tremendously from the practices in the Yog Sutras and have fair amount of clarity about these practices.

Now, my focus is on pranayam. Can a further fine-tuning of the pranayam I practice help derive the type of benefits that Yog Sutras has given --- that is the question that impelled me to put up my post.

I believe that a practitioner can re-discover our ancient techniques better than the doctors. The doctors are bound by the theories learnt by them. The practitioner is a free-bird who brings a totally new approach to the issues.

Regards,

Dogra 

============================================

 

The source text of Patanajli does not seem to carry even a single word of technical nature to  connect  with the ‘ Three section breathing / Hyperbaric Oxygen’ – issues’.   

[BVKSastry(Gmail)]

Namaste

 

My responses  indented and placed below:

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^

BVK Sastry – ( On   ) :

 

--------------------

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Satish Kumar Dogra
Sent: Monday, 01 August, 2016 5:24 AM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Hyperbaric oxygen therapy and Pranayam

 

Dear Shri Shastri,

                              Thanks for your elaborate discussion. I believe all of us must discuss things threadbare and share knowledge as well as experience to arrive at useful techniques that might benefit us and the society.

I have developed a certain practice that simulates the HBOT and gives good benefits to the body and the brain. It improves mental and physical agility, and seems to sharpen the memory.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

BVK Sastry – ( On Practice Developed  ) :  The evaluation of practical  benefit of practice is the domain of medical experts. If you share the theory part, and make some pointers to the source authenticity for your ‘practice ideology’, one may look in to texts and trace a reference.

 

--------------------

I have been looking for Sanskrit texts that might describe different types of pranayama techniques, so that I might sharpen and fine-tune my technique. That was the purpose of my post. Since this is a Forum with great scholars, I thought someone might come up with some text that describes a pranayama similar to what I practice.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

BVK Sastry – ( On Pranayama in Sanskrit Texts   ) :  The guidance for Pranayama do come up in many works of Yoga, Tantra, Aagama, Ayurveda and Upanishads. All are built on specific understanding of  ‘Prana’. The concept of ‘Prana’ is alien to modern medicine.  PRanayama is not just breath regulation. The need is to deliberate on basics and practice –benefits, which are of practical design nature , fall outside of a  public forum debate and public domain  discourse. Off forum private and personal discussion is what is called  ‘Anu-shaasnam’ condition.

 

--------------------

 

As for Yog Sutras, I take it as a treatise on the flow of electric impulses through the neurons and, more particularly, the bunches of neurons called chakras. I have benefited tremendously from the practices in the Yog Sutras and have fair amount of clarity about these practices.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

BVK Sastry – ( On Yoga-Sutra treatise  ) :  Your view is valid from a particular layered perspective and resolution. There are much more deeper issues. This is neither the beginning or the bottom of the text.

 

--------------------

 

Now, my focus is on pranayam. Can a further fine-tuning of the pranayam I practice help derive the type of benefits that Yog Sutras has given --- that is the question that impelled me to put up my post.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

BVK Sastry – ( On Pranayama Fine tuning  ) : Pranayma can be and has been fine tuned. It is a ‘Custom prescription’ and NOT an off the shelf –early morning TV driven leisurely practice. The Sunday prayer talk in a church is not the same as serious bible scholarship.

 

--------------------

 

I believe that a practitioner can re-discover our ancient techniques better than the doctors. The doctors are bound by the theories learnt by them. The practitioner is a free-bird who brings a totally new approach to the issues.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

BVK Sastry – ( On  rediscovery  ) : Yes. Doctors are better equipped and interested in these as t helps them to add one more ‘ prescription for improving the bottom line’.  

Yes, Practitioner is a Free Bird who flies at their own risk, according to ones own ability and will.  Birds and Planes have different comfort zones of  speeds and flying paths along with their own  altitudes.        

 

--------------------

 

Regards,

Dogra