The impossibility of Kurukshetra War at 5561 BCE and of Rama's life at 12009 BCE

[Jijith Nadumuri Ravi]

Dear All

Gone through many interesting email threads in this group, showing the impossibility of the Kurukshetra War dated to 5561 BCE and Ramayana at 12009 BCE by various researchers including Shri Raja Ram Mohan Roy.

I had done this talk in June 2020 on the platform of Sangam Talks, arguing the same. 

The link for the same is here:-

https://youtu.be/YeqvIkojal4

This talk is a re-rendering of the talk I have done on 02-02-2020 refuting the grossly exaggerated dates of Sri Nilesh Oak given to Kurukshetra War and Rama's life-time. I am still awaiting the video recording of this debate, but despite repeated reminders, it is not made available as a YouTube video for public consumption.

In my view, this gross exaggeration of the Bharatiya Chronology does the same harm that AIT with its gross contraction of the Bharatiya Chronology does, - viz. sending the new generation of researchers into wrong paths, wasting their career and valuable research time.

My analysis is external to archaeo-astronomy based dating. 

It is based on the genealogies that connect  Yudhisthira and Parikshit to the historical kings like Mahapadma Nanda and Chandragupta Mourya. Thankfully, many Puranas contain information that records the number of years elapsed between Parikshit and Maha Padma Nanda. This information serves as a validation criteria to evaluate any Kurukshetra War date developed solely based on the interpretation of the verses containing some astronomical information in the Mahabharata.

The Puranas to look for such information are the Vishnu Purana, Vayu Purana and Matsya Purana. For example, Vishnu Purana records that 1015 years elapsed between Parikshit and Mahapadma Nanda.

Many think that when the archaeologists discover more and more ancient sites in Bharata, this will automatically validate and support the older Kurukshetra War dates. But this is only partially correct. Like a kite tied to its rope, like a cow tied to a tree, the Kurukshetra War date is tied to historical kings like Mahapadma Nanda and Chandragupta Mourya due to the Puranic record of the number of years elapsed between Nanda and Parikshit.

I do see proposals by researchers to circumvent this bondage of Kurukshetra War date. One is the chronology revision proposed by Shri Vedaveer Arya, which argues for the revision of the date of Buddha, Nanda and Mourya. This is but not easy as it requires the revision of the entire established world chronology including that of Greece, Europe, China, Mongolia and so on and new dates for the birth of Jesus and Muhammad. Everything will be pushed back into the past by around 1350 years.

Others try to exaggerate the number of years between a father king and his descendant king, beyond the healthy range of 25 to 36 years. Exaggerating the generation gap between a father king and his son to beyond 36 years such as 60 years or 200 years etc is absurd. But this is the only way the Kurukshetra War dates like 5561 BCE can be supported.

I have also observed social media debates in Facebook and Twitter, where none of the researchers are seen as using this important information to refute the exaggerated Kurukshetra War dates.

Similarly, many researchers still use the Rama Jataka verses in the non-Critical Editions of Valmiki Ramayana to arrive at the 5114 BCE date for the birth of Sri Rama. Knowing that the Rama Jataka verses are later additions to the Valmiki Ramayana corpus and hence it is removed in the critical edition, researchers shall avoid using it in their chronological analysis.

Here also I am providing my analysis for the Rama's date, which is external to archaeo-astronomy based dating. Hence, it can serve as an external validation criteria to evaluate any date on Rama developed solely based on the interpretation of the verses containing some astronomical information in the Ramayana.

Sri Rama is mentioned as a patron king doing Daana to the Rgvedic poets in the 10th Mandala of the Rgveda. Shantanu the father of Bhishma too is mentioned as a patron king doing Daana to the Rgvedic poets in the 10th Mandala of the Rgveda. Thus both Sri Rama and Samtanu are contemporaries. Any date on the Kurukshetra War will automatically provide a date for Samtanu due to the lineage connecting Santanu to Parikshit (who is born 1 year after the Kurukshetra War):- Samtanu-Vichitravirya-Pandu-Arjuna-Abhimanyu-Parikshit. 

If we put the average generation gap of 25 years:- Shantanu was born around  125 years before the  Kurukshetra War / the birth of Parikshit. If we put the average generation gap of 36 years then Shantanu is born around 180 years before the Kurukshetra War / the birth of Parikshit.

Even otherwise, the ascetic lineage of Vasistha-Shakthi-Parasara-Vyasa hints at a gap of much below 200 years between Kurukshetra War and Sri Rama. Vasistha was the priest of Sri Rama and of the age of his grandfather. Shakthi was thus of the same generation of Rama's father Dasaratha. Parasara is of the same generation as Rama and Shantanu. Vyasa is of the same generation as Bhishma and Vichitravirya. Vyasa was the grandfather of the Pandavas

The ascetic lineages avoid exaggerations. The royal lineages often add many kings from other parallel royal lineages. For example Nahusha and Yayati, clearly Chandra Vamsha kings are added into the Ikshwaku lineage of Sri Rama in the Valmiki Ramayana. The ascetic lineages are thus more reliable.

Hence, in diverse ways, we get a clarity that there is only a few generations of gap between the Pandavas and Sri Rama. 

This is also corroborated by the narrative of Ramayana and Mahabharata which shows the same mode of transport and warfare, which uses the horse driven chariots in both Ayodhya and Hastinapur, both situated in the Indo-Gangetic plain.  The social life described both in Mahabharata and Ramayana are similar without much change. This is how it will be when the gap between these time periods is less than 200 years. 

If there were 2000 years of gap between these periods, substantial changes will be noticeable in the social life, warfare and transport methods described in both these texts. 

A Ramayana date put in 12009 BCE will place Sri Rama in the Ice Age. 

The warmer periods in geology that triggered farming and prosperity occurred after 9500 BCE. This progressed into small settlements, villages, towns, cities, cultures, civilizations and traditions. As the Earth Warmed after the Last Glacial Maximum, temperatures fluctuated. About 9700 BCE, temperatures rose again suddenly and began to stabilize, marking the beginning of a new geological epoch, the Holocene. 

Placing Sri Rama before the Holocene is thus far-fetched.

Regards

Jijith

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi

Former Scientist ISRO,

Founder: Dharma Digital, AncientVoice

http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/

Dharma Digital:- Dharmic revival through holograms, virtual worlds and digital technologies 

AncientVoice:- World's 1st and Largest Veda-Puruana-Itihasa wiki portal website with 23700 plus pages

[Munagala Subrahmanyam]

Respected sir , 

   

 I have some doubts please clear them .

  1. As i heard Raja Tarangini tells the lineage of the kings from the starting of kaliyuga. Have you  completely gone through the sanskrit edition of it ?

2. Citing Raja Rama Mohan Roy with similar opinion won't be suitable in the present era due to technological advancements. His opinion may be suitable for that era . We accept his scholarships and his contributions but it doesn't mean that we accept everything what he said. He himself against such a blind following .

3. What about the application of Radio Carbon Dating technique on Ramasetu or dwaraka ?? It gives a better result than historical opinions . Is it done by anyone ??? May i know it please .

4.Imagination of that time with the present time won't be suitable. We cant take the age limit of a generation as 25 years like ours. Because we have 300 years lived person namely Trailinga swamy in kashi. His identity has historical records also. 

5. We had already a great historian who told that Yudhistira was inspired by Buddha . 

Please don't spread those types of stories. And please don't indulge yourself into finding evidences for such things.

There is a need to re - search the history along with scientific technologies .  Mere opinions differs from individual to individual.

Thank you 

Sorry for inconvenience if any.

[Raja Roy]

Respected Munagala ji,

Just wanted to correct that Shri Jijith Nadumuri Ravi is talking about me, not the great social reformer. Here is my 10-part comprehensive refutation of 12209 BCE dating of Ramayana.

Dr. Raja Ram Mohan Roy – Medium

Regards,

Raja

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/a92912c0-92d7-4b5c-8f19-c0cfd1614a7en%40googlegroups.com.