Re: Islam is based on AtharvaVeda

[Shashi Joshi]

just because it is composed in sanskrit doesn't make any connection

there is an entire bible written in sanskrit as well

if it was based on atharvaveda, then why did the violent attacks against the land of bharat happen, and still going on at various levels and forms?

----

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allopanishad#Views_on_authorship_and_authenticity 

Views on authorship and authenticity

[edit]

In an issue of The Theosophist, R. Ananthakrishna Sastri wrote that the work was written by converted Muslims for monetary rewards during the time of Muslim rule in India. He further remarked that the work was not in the style of ordinary Upanishads and its words appear to sound more like Arabic.^[4] Bhattacharya and Sarkar categorize Allopanishad as an Islamic Work and write that it was written by a converted Muslim courtier of Akbar who had, as an apocryphal chapter of the Atharvaveda. Charles Eliot suggested that the work may have been written in connection with the Din-i-Ilahi movement, and wrote that the work can hardly be described as other than a forgery.^[3] Author S. N. Sadasivan says, "When emperor Akbar was toying the idea with new religion Din-i Ilahi, converted Muslims had written for him a new upanishad called "Allopanishad" (upanishad of Allah) which strangely was not acceptable for him".^[6] Swami Vivekananda wrote that Allopanishad was evidently of a much later date and that he was told that it was written in the reign of Akbar to bring Hindus and Muslims together.^[5] Sadasivan writes that it was written by converted Muslims for Akbar when he was experimenting with a new religion.^[7] Debendranath Tagore wrote in his autobiography that Allopanishad was composed in the days of Akbar with the objective of converting Hindus into Muslims.^[8] Bankim Chandra Chattopadhyay wrote that the Allopanishad was the shameless production of some converted Muslim sycophant of Muslim rulers of India.^[9] Abraham Eraly states that the book was symbolic of the various cross-cultural pollination between Hindu and Muslim cultures during the time of the Mughals and was meant to bring the two communities together.^[10]

Thanks,

~ Shashi

On Fri, Feb 7, 2025 at 1:32 PM संस्कृत संवादः <samskrit...@gmail.com> wrote:

शब्दकल्पद्रुमः

अल्ला 

  

अल्ला¦, स्त्री, (अल + क, स्त्रियां टाप् ।) परमेश्वरः । एतन्नाम्ना यवना उपासन्ते । यथा । “ओँ अस्मल्लां इल्ले मित्रावरुणो दिव्यानि धत्ते । इलल्ले वरुणो राजा पुनर्ददुः । हयामि मित्रो इल्लां इल्लल्लेति इल्लाल्लां वरुणो मित्रो तेजकामाः । होवारमिन्द्रो होतारमिन्द्रो माहासुरिन्द्राः । अल्लो ज्येष्ठं श्रेष्ठं परमं पूर्णं ब्रह्माणमल्लां अल्लोरसुर महमदरकं वरस्य अल्लो अल्लां आदल्लावुकमेककं । अल्लां वुकं । निखातकं । अल्लो यज्ञेन हुतहुत्वः अल्ला सूर्य्यचन्द्रसर्व्वनक्षत्राः अल्लो ऋषीणां सदिव्या इन्द्राय पूर्व्वं मायापरमन्त अन्तरिक्षाः । अल्लो पृथिव्या अन्तरिक्षं विश्वरूपं दिव्यानि धत्ते इल्लल्ले वरुणो राजा पुनर्ददुः । इल्लाकवर इल्लाकवर इल्लल्लेति इल्लाल्लाः इल्ला इल्लल्ला अनादिस्वरूपा अथर्व्वणी शाखां ह्रूँ ह्रीँ जनान् पशून् सिद्धान् जलचरान् अदृष्टं कुरु कुरु फट् । असुरसंहारिणीं हुँ अल्लो रसुरमहमदरकं वरस्य अल्लो अल्लां इल्लल्लेति इल्लल्लः” । इत्याथर्व्वणसूक्तं ।

अल्ला 

  

अल्ला¦, स्त्री, (अल्यते इत्यल्, क्विप्, अलें भूषायै लाति गृह्णाति, ला + क ।) नाट्योक्तौ माता । इति वोपदेवः ॥ (अथर्व्ववेदे अल्लाल्लेत्यादिख्यातो यवनोपास्यः परमेश्वरः ।)

वाचस्पत्यम्

अल्ला 

  

अल्ला¦ स्त्री अल्यते इत्यल् क्विप् अले भूषायै लाति गृह्णाति ला--क ४ त० । १ मातरि । अलतीति अल् पर्य्याप्तः सन् लाति सर्व्वानत्ति गृह्णाति जानाति वा ला--क । २ सर्व्वज्ञायां सर्व्वभक्षिकायां परमात्मदेवतायाम् सा च अथर्व्ववेदे अल्लाल्लेत्यादिसूक्ते प्रसिद्धा ।

Best Regards,
डोकानियोपनामको मोहितः
संस्कृत संवादः
https://linktr.ee/samvadah

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[संस्कृत संवादः]

[Krishna Kashyap]

see more information here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allopanishad

https://archive.org/details/AllahUpanishad/mode/2up

https://ia804606.us.archive.org/14/items/biostor-281186/biostor-281186.pdf

Best Regards,

Krishna Kashyap

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[G S S Murthy]

Has the authenticity of so-called "Allopanishad" been checked?

Regards,

Murthy

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[sandeep k]

Namaskar,

 Please refer to the following link for detailed explanation on how to interpret and counter such a false narrative. 

Thank you.

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[Krishnaprakasha Bolumbu]

Pranamam

Shabdakalpadruma is a modern work composed between 1828 and 1858 CE. Vachaspatyam, too, was composed between 1866 and 1884. This could give some clues about the validity of these ideas.

[Yogananda CS]

Namaste,

Here is a link to it in the Sri Jayachamarajendra Grantharatna Maala

https://grm.sirinudi.org/php/bookreader/templates/book.php?bookID=016&pagenum=0152#page/156/mode/2up

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CADi6ZRiz2VZnwbKKzQesSV3kaNQ5sjakb1F3RfyTVtTs6%3DCjWg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Yogananda CS]

Namaste,

Here is a link to it in the Sri Jayachamarajendra Grantharatna Maala

https://grm.sirinudi.org/php/bookreader/templates/book.php?bookID=016&pagenum=0152#page/156/mode/2up

This seems to have nothing to do with Alla as is know in public!

Regards. . . . .yoga

On Sat, Feb 8, 2025 at 10:27 AM G S S Murthy <murt...@gmail.com> wrote:

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CADi6ZRiz2VZnwbKKzQesSV3kaNQ5sjakb1F3RfyTVtTs6%3DCjWg%40mail.gmail.com.

[G S S Murthy]

As regards Mysore Palace publications, I may be permitted to narrate a here-say: The Maharaja commissioned reputed scholars for translating all puranas, Vedas etc. For reasons best known to those reputed scholars, they subcontracted the job to their shishyas, who in turn duly and obediently adopted the same methodology.  And the translations under the authorship of the reputed scholars got published with considerable expenditure. It is said that there were no buyers  and the heavy tomes were distributed to Government libraries. They are not known for their depth of scholarship.

Thanks and Regards

Murthy

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAJFChufzj9700WuOjTZiiuQRWAkOXB%3D8pCYRp8SSVADMZVi%3D-A%40mail.gmail.com.

[K S Kannan]

I have gone through a few volumes of the Palace publications.

The Vedic volumes show considerable width and depth of scholarship.

Of course, the problem of distribution is as usual a harrowing one 

wrt even our university publications even to this day. You can get OUP publications

in our book stalls, but not our own Govt./Uni publications.

They are designed to rot in godowns. Our authorities ensure that 

in no way does the public ever come to know about them.

This is true of all our ORI books/books from our Sanskrit Universities.

They are all low-priced. But they are never given to any book-shops.

I know of many palace-publications that became fodder for termites.

To procure them, you had to make a dozen visits to the Uni. office,

and you drop buying - out of sheer disgust.

You write to even BORI, just for an example, and ask for their latest catalogue of publications.

All that they have to do is send a one-liner link. But they will not.

And then they say there are no buyers.

All the same, I am not saying the fact that our people are incapable of doing shoddy jobs:

they'll miss no opportunity doing it. There are exceptions, however.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CADi6ZRjAM_LD_oF7717Oed-LVVG63PauVVprQYNYjb2qK1cUYg%40mail.gmail.com.

--

Dr. K.S.Kannan  D.Litt.

​Sant Rajinder Singh Ji Maharaj Chair Professor (Retd.), IIT-Madras.

Member, Advisory Board, "Prof. A K Singh AURO Chair of Indic Studies", AURO University, Surat.
Member, Expert Committee for Review of Criticism of Indian Knowledge Traditions, Central Sanskrit University (under MoE, GoI), Ganganath Jha Campus, Prayagraj.
Adjunct Faculty, Dept of Heritage Science and Technology, IIT Hyderabad.

Nominated Member, Academic Committee, Kavi Kula Guru Kalidasa University, Ramtek.
Member, Academic Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthana.
Academic Director, Swadeshi Indology.
Nominated Member, IIAS, Shimla.

Former Professor, CAHC, Jain University, Bangalore.

Former Director, Karnataka Samskrit University, Bangalore.

Former Head, Dept. of Sanskrit, The National Colleges, Bangalore.

https://sites.google.com/view/kskannan

[K S Kannan]

The links sent by CSY do not seem to work,

or they seem to be inestimably slow :

too heavy perhaps.

[shankara]

Murthy ji,

Attaching a journal article on this topic - 'On the Authenticity of the Allopanishad' by R. Nath, Journal of Oriental Institute (Baroda), XXVI.3, March 1977. 

The author concludes that Allopanishad was composed under Akbar's directions.

regards
shankara

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[K S Kannan]

Thank you for the article 

on this new "upaniṣad"!

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/1785416372.6024240.1739080253252%40mail.yahoo.com.

[G S S Murthy]

Shankara ji,

That is more like it!

Murthy

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[Ganesh R]

Dear Mr. G. S. S. Murthy,

I have read many of the publications of the Mysore palace that were published in the Jayachamarajendra gantha ratbamalaa and their quality of translation is certainly good and above average. Especially the Rgveda volumes, the prasthaanatraya Bhashya-s and quite a number of Puraana-s are laudable. It is not fair to make a blanket statement about their alleged low quality.

With warm regards

Ganesh

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[BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)]

Namaste

 

My submission:

 

Subject title can be Provocative like News Paper Headlines to attract attention; But Academic Scholarly presentation needs to go beyond ‘Head Line’ mode to ‘ How the subject title lines gets in to HEAD’ .

The difficulties I foresee in the attached article and lexicon entries:

 

1. If ISLAM / Holy Koran ( spelling is in popular – alternative is Quran) traces its roots back to OLD TESTAMENT and Abrahamic Religions context, with ‘Arabic as the language of Scripture’, then following  clarities need to emerge:

 

1.1. What is common ‘Root’ – Link  of ‘Gods Language/ Dev Bhashaa’ ?

                        Samskrutham and or Arabic Or Hebrew/ Araimac …. Depends on what one likes.

 

1.2. What is ‘God’: Devataa in Atharva Veda context (Eko Devah…) to do with ‘One God’ in Abrahamic Traditions?

 

Why the lexicographer made ‘Allah’ as  a Feminine gender word ? – And Koran sections became ‘Veda- sukta- equivalents’ ??

 

अल्ला¦ स्त्री अल्यते इत्यल् क्विप् अले भूषायै लाति गृह्णाति ला--क ४ त० । १ मातरि । अलतीति अल् पर्य्याप्तः सन् लाति सर्व्वानत्ति गृह्णाति जानाति वा ला--क । २ सर्व्वज्ञायां सर्व्वभक्षिकायां परमात्मदेवतायाम् सा च अथर्व्ववेदे अल्लाल्लेत्यादिसूक्ते प्रसिद्धा ।

 

1.3. What is ‘History – time line link ?  The historicity of Islam refers to the study of its origins and   development, primarily beginning with Muhammad's mission in the 7th century CE. Most historians believe that Islam  originated in Mecca and Medina, while Muslims view this period as a return to the original faith of the   Abrahamic prophets. The historicity of Muhammad examines him as a historical figure, analyzing the sources of traditional accounts, including the Quran and Hadith.

 

1.4. The invoked Lexicons of Samskrutham refer to a ‘Word in Usage- without questioning the ‘Historicity of Word-Context- Creation and USAGE’.

 

Today, if one scholar of Samskruth desires( and is supported adequately) , a new ‘Samskruth Language- versioned document  of ‘Satya-Quaran –Veda- Upanishad and ‘ new genre of pura-navam’ can be crafted out.

And it can be claimed as ‘Dream Visioned with an authority of choice God’ ?!

 

Is this a new exercise ? Trace the history of ‘Scripture Translation exercise’ and ‘Bible Translation to Sanskrit’- a work in progress – started around 1808.   The New Testament was published at the Baptist Missionary Press in Calcutta in 1808, and the Old Testament in four volumes followed in 1818.

Bible translations into Sanskrit - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_translations_into_Sanskrit

 

Vachaspatyam  is around historic time line  of Lexicographer:  Tarkavachaspati, Taranatha, 1812-1885.

Vacaspatyam : Tarkavachaspati, Taranatha, 1812-1885 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

 

And for a Kannada version of ‘ Old/ New Testament in Modern Languages, which becomes a feed to ‘Digital Lexicons’ :

Download ಕನ್ನಡ ಸತ್ಯವೇದವು C.L. Bible (BSI) | KANCLBSI Bible | 100% Free

https://www.bible.com/versions/1692-kanclbsi-%E0%B2%95%E0%B2%A8%E0%B2%A8%E0%B2%A1-%E0%B2%B8%E0%B2%A4%E0%B2%AF%E0%B2%B5%E0%B2%A6%E0%B2%B5-cl-bible-bsi

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

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[Yogananda CS]

Namaste, 

This one is translated by Patankara Chandrashekhara Bhatta, a Vidwan of considerable repute. 

The story you narrated is familiar to me but no particular author/ volume is mentioned.  So unless an example is there, perhaps not proper to cast aspersions.

Regards.  . . . . . Yoga

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[Yogananda CS]

Namaste, 

One of the contributors to the Jayachamarajendra Grantharatnamala, Sri Satchidanandendra Saraswati swamiji has explained the scheme. The Palace would pay for printing 1000 copies of the book of which 200 copies are to be given to the palace. The contributor of that volumes is free to utilise the remaining 800 as he wishes - sell or otherwise. So there was no money directly for writing. 

Please take a look at the contributing vidwans. No one can say any one of them is undeserving. 

Regards. . . . . . Yoga

On Sun, 9 Feb, 2025, 10:29 am G S S Murthy, <murt...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Yogananda CS]

Namaskara KSK sir, 

I tried on my mobile phone on the train now and it opened.

The article sent by Sri Shankar has a very interpretation from that in the kannada translation where it refers to Devi.

Regards. . . . Yoga

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[G S S Murthy]

Respected scholars,

I am sorry my previous note in this chain has provoked adverse comments. As I mentioned, I heard long back and I said now. I should not have.

Regards,

Murthy

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[Ganesh R]

Thank you Mr. G. S. S. Murthy ji,

It is not new to come across adverse comments about many large scale literary projects. Ho, if we are interested to know the truth, it would be nice to  personally examine them and come to a balanced conclusion.

At times, even such a stand may need the validation of subject experts who have a vision of the larger picture.

With utmost warm regards

Ganesh

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[K S Kannan]

Thank you CSY for your efforts and for confirmation wrt the accessibility.

I must retry. I will.

Regards

KSK

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[संस्कृत संवादः]

I apologize for not being able to participate in the discussion, as my original post was deleted, so I was not receiving any notifications. The reason for the deletion is unclear to me, and it feels somewhat discouraging, as it may suggest censorship. It has become hard to pursue any conversation here these days.

सोमवार, 10 फ़रवरी 2025 को 5:40:16 pm UTC+5:30 बजे K S Kannan ने लिखा: