(July 2020) Reading Yāska's Nirukta in 2020: jottings of consequence to the Global history of astronomy, Yāska's chronological epoch and the Indic history of writing and knowledge systems

[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

Reading Yāska's Nirukta in 2020: jottings of consequence to the Global history of astronomy, Yāska's chronological epoch and the Indic history of writing and knowledge systems

[Sivasenani Nori]

Congratulations Sri Megh Kalyanasundaram for showing that Yaska was the first one to show that the Moon reflects Sunlight and not Anaxagoras.

Your view on Nirukta text 'उपदेशाय ग्लायन्तोऽवरे बिल्मग्रहणायेमं ग्रन्थं समाम्नासिषुः। वेदं च वेदाङ्गानि च। as showing that the 'act of compiling' is the other of 'oral communication'. The interpretation that I was taught, is that compilation refers to the division of Vedas and development of certain concepts explicitly in Vedangas. Interesting, nevertheless, that you see it as related to writing, or at least the 'other' of oral transmission.

Regards

Senani

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 at 09:12, Megh Kalyanasundaram <kalyanasun...@gmail.com> wrote:

Reading Yāska's Nirukta in 2020: jottings of consequence to the Global history of astronomy, Yāska's chronological epoch and the Indic history of writing and knowledge systems

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[K S Kannan]

Good effort by Sri Megh.

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Dr. K.S.Kannan  D.Litt.

​Sant Rajinder Singh Ji Maharaj Chair Professor, IIT-Madras.

Senior Fellow, ICSSR, New Delhi.

Academic Director, Swadeshi Indology.

Member, Academic Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthana.

Nominated Member, IIAS, Shimla.

Former Professor, CAHC, Jain University, Bangalore.

Former Director, Karnataka Samskrit University, Bangalore.

Former Head, Dept. of Sanskrit, The National Colleges, Bangalore.

[Irene Galstian]

Congrats on the paper, Megh!

Irene

[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

Thank you Dr Galstian, Professor Kannan and Sri Sivasenani-ji.  

Best,

Megh

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/bvparishat/N1hSyzwsfm0/S30V-nDSDgAJ

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[Veeranarayanacharya Pandurangi]

It seems quite convincing argument to me. Congratulations Megh.

Vee.paa.

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[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

🙏 Thank you!

Best,

Megh

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[Subrahmanyam Korada]

Dear Megha

I have gone through your Paper .

It is clear from the references that you have touched all Papers / Articles that are related to the subject .

Following the Paninisutram - yaskadibhyo gotre  2-4-63 - it is established by traditional scholars that Yaskamaharshi preceded  Panini .

In Indian tradition the uninterrupted tradition of Guru and Sishya is considered as the highest Pramanam (authority) in all matters . Such a tradition also suggests that Panini came after Yaska .

As far as the letter ळ is concerned it is listed in Paniniyasiksha by the name दुःस्पृष्ट ।

It is not there in Ashtadhyayi because Panini did not need the same in his scheme of  Grammatical Applications .

Since Patanjali , in Paspasahnikam clearly says that Panini was aware of all the 1130 branches of Veda , one need not discuss as to whether was

familiar with a particular Vedasakha or not .

Sages , like Patanjali , do not and need not twist things as they do not expect anything in return and we cannot compare the present day Scholars with the sages .

Congratulations for this beautiful and usefulPaper .

Subham bhuyat

Dr.Korada Subrahmanyam
Professor of Sanskrit

299 Doyen , Serilingampally, Hyderabad 500 019
Ph:09866110741(M),91-40-23010741(R)

Skype Id: Subrahmanyam Korada

Blog: Koradeeyam.blogspot.in 

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[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

Thank you so much for going through the paper and sharing these observations, Mahamahopadhyaya Dr Korada Subrahmanyam ji 🙏. 

Gratitude. 

Best,

Megh

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[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

Of 943 respondents, to a 24-hour (unpromoted) poll, asking respondents to indicate the age (range) when they first heard about the Nirukta, ~90% voted for "Nirukta what".

n=943 is, of course, a very sample size.    

Source: https://twitter.com/meghkalyan/status/1304643482519175168?s=20

[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

Intriguingly (for me atleast and from a tech point-of-view in this case), the results of the same Nirukta poll, when accessed through the Twitter app on mobile, displays results without decimals. 

[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

Namaste, 

This thread contained a paper (and here is its successor) which engaged with, amongst other things, some literature (over the years) concerned with the chronological epoch of Yāska's Nirukta. Included below is a paper subsequent to both above, and more importantly, the most recent—"Published online by Cambridge University Press: 10 December 2020"[1]—example (at least amongst what I could find) where the chronological epoch appears (some may say) 'altered'. 

[1] t.ly/8u6k 

VISIGALLI, P., & KAWAMURA, Y. (2020). Classifying and Defining Deities in the Late Vedic Age: A Study and an Annotated Translation of Yāska's Nirukta Chapter 7. Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society, 1-40. doi:10.1017/S1356186320000553

Abstract: "Yāska's Nirukta (ca. fifth-third century bce), the seminal text of the Sanskritic discipline of nirvacana or ‘etymology’, is one of the most important yet least studied late Vedic texts. Particularly little attention has been paid to Nirukta Chapter 7. This chapter outlines Yāska's views on Vedic deities and articulates the hermeneutic principles whereby they are classified and defined. It plays a crucial, yet underappreciated, role in the history of ancient India's theological and hermeneutical speculations. The absence of an accessible English translation, which tackles the text's many conceptual and linguistic complexities, is the main reason why Nirukta Chapter 7 has not received the attention it deserves. We offer the first complete annotated English translation in a century. A comprehensive introduction clarifies the structure and rationale of Chapter 7 and elucidates the salient features of Yāska's theology." [Emphasis added]

Best,

Megh

PS: It is not my intention to reduce this paper just the portion highlighted. For example, I have read some of Dr. Visigalli's other papers and it has been mostly time well-spent. 

At the same time, I am flagging this facet, for anyone else who may be interested in this facet too, amongst other (some may say higher-order) things. 

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[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

Namaste, 

Atharva Forum has published, on Jan 12, 2022, a video titled निघण्टु एवं श्री यास्काचार्य का निरुक्त (भाष्य ) Part 1 - प्रो. वसंतकुमार भट्ट

I thank Prof. Vasantkumar Bhatt and Atharva Forum for making this video possible. 

Two amongst other excerpts I transcribed while listening: 

~10:59 "...और दुनिया का कालानुक्रम से अगर सोचा जाए, तो समग्रह भूमण्डल में यह निघण्टु नाम का शब्दकोश, वैदिक शब्दों का कोश, सबसे पहला कोश है, सब से पहला समानार्थक शब्दों का कोश है..." https://youtu.be/tLCnNZUjH_Y?t=659 [almost verbatim, if not wholly so]

~11:49 "...तो यास्क ने ईसापूर्व आंठवी शताब्दी में निरुक्त की रचना की और उन्होंने इन निघण्टु में आये हुए शब्दों को लेकर उसपर अपनी एक commentary लिखी, एक भाष्य लिखा, उसका नाम है निरुक्त" https://youtu.be/tLCnNZUjH_Y?t=709 

[almost verbatim, if not wholly so]

Best,

Megh

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 1:27 AM Subrahmanyam Korada <kora...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

Namaste,

यास्काचार्य के निर्वचनों का स्वरूप Part 2 - प्रो. वसंतकुमार भट्ट: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW_hUR7eDZM

Best,

Megh 

[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

2022 June 23: "भारत में वर्णमाला लेखन का इतिहास: डोमिनिक वुजास्तिक [Dominik Wujastyk] और कुछ अन्य लोगों के अनुसार साउथ एशिया [South Asia] में “वर्णमाला लेखन” (alphabetical writing) तीसरी शताब्दी ईसा पूर्व में शुरू हुआ था[9]। लेकिन छठी शताब्दी ईसा पूर्व (या उससे पहले) निरुक्त “ग्रन्थं”[10] शब्द को प्रमाणित करता है। अधिक विवरण के लिए कल्याणसुंदरम (2020ए) में पृष्ठ 20-21 देखें।" [(https://shorturl.at/fg3gq, खगोल, धातु, प्रकाशिकी विज्ञान के वैश्विक इतिहास तथा भारत के वर्णमाला लेखन और ज्ञान प्रणालियों के इतिहास के लिए निरुक्त का महत्व]

Footnote [9] referred to above: “Although writing was probably known to exist outside India before Aśoka, it has been compellingly argued that Aśoka created the first alphabetical writing specific to South Asia, in order to promulgate his edicts.” (Wujastyk 2014:163) [Emphasis added]

कल्याणसुंदरम (2020ए), being the paper at the top of this thread (with response from, amongst others, Mahamahopadhyaya (Dr) Korada Subrahmanyam ji,  Acharya (Dr) Veernarayana Pandurangi, and (Dr) Irene Galstian. 

Fast forward to 2025 Sep 23:

"The report  -- Recent Scientific Dates of Archaeological Sites of Tamil Nadu --- also states that an extensive dataset of radiometric dates from sites yielding Tamiḻi (Tamil-Brahmi) inscribed potsherds, such as Keeladi, Sivagalai and Kodumanal, places the script’s origins in the 7th-6th centuries BCE. ... Majority of the early historic sites in South India date back to 3rd century BCE based on the assumption that the Brahmi script was introduced in South India after Asoka. However, the new findings challenge the long-held notion." [Emphasis added] 

Read more at: https://www.deccanherald.com/india/early-historic-period-in-south-india-began-in-6th-century-bce-report-3739614

Furthermore: 

Best,

Megh 

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 1:27 AM Subrahmanyam Korada <kora...@gmail.com> wrote:

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