Language of Srimad Bhagavata Purana

[shankara]

Pranams to all,

In the preface to 'Bhagavata Bhasha Pariccheda', Charudeva Sastry observes that 'the language of the Bhagavata differs widely from the other 17 Puranas which betray a community  of language. The style too is markedly dissimilar. This is a stern reality which none dare deny'.

He also says, "Admittedly this Purana is not the composition of the sage Vyasa. Yet, it is the work of a scholar steeped in traditional learning and gifted with a high intellectual stamina..."

Is it possible for a poet write a kavya in a style totally different from all his other works?

regards
shankara

[Dipak Bhattacharya]

Why not admit that the Puraanas were not composed by a single person?  Hazra’s studies try to show that they were composed by several persons and in different ages.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[shankara]

Bhattacharyaji,

The question is not merely about the single authorship of Puranas. When Charudeva Sastry compared the language & style of Bhagavata with other Puranas, he might have also had Mahabharata in his mind. He would have felt that the Bhagavata is not the composition of the sage Vyasa who authored Mahabharata.

Is there any philological or similar other tool using which we can ascertain whether the same person wrote two kavya/puranas?

Bhagavata Bhasha Parichcheda is available at the link given below. Though Sastry mentions the authorship of Bhagavata in the preface, it is not the main theme of the book. It is a critique of the language of the Bhagavata.

https://archive.org/details/BhagavataBhashaParichchedahCharudevaShastriVishveshvaranandInstitutePublications

regards
shankara

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

[Kalyan K]

There are questions on whether even the Mahabharata was the work of a single person, leave alone the puranas.

[Sivasenani Nori]

Shankara ji

There are two views. Vyasa is verily the Avatara of Vishnu and what is not possible for him? So any difference in style is easily explicable.

Another view is that everything has to happen exactly as we know, the underlying assumption being that the only paradigm which is ever possible is that which can be explained by our current stage of knowledge. And often, in order to fit our theories. So notwithstanding the great variety in the language used by authors in our own lifetime (my grandfather wrote a variety of genres in a variety of registers, for instance), we have to force fit an interpretation on the past, evidence not being mandatory.

Regards 

N. Siva Senani 

--

[Nagaraj Paturi]

In continuation of Dr Sivasenani Nori-ji's multiple registers or styles, the topic of the book too is a significant factor in style variation. 

Srimad Bhaagavata PuraaNa is a Bhakti rasa grantha while the other puraNas are not. 

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

[vasantkumar bhatt]

Even the authorship of Shrimad-bhagavad-geeta ( a portion of Bhishma-parvan, the Mahabharatam ) is in dispute  !!! Scholars have found out multipal authorship there even !!!!!

   Epics and Puranas are full of various interpolations. So, We have to find out linguistically different portions of the same. This is the real point of research / textual criticism. 

Vasantkumar M.Bhatt 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

https://www.academia.edu/28309493/Ways_and_Reasons_for_Thinking_about_the_Mah%C4%81bh%C4%81rata_as_a_Whole

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 1:09 PM, Kalyan K <pk.k...@gmail.com> wrote:

There are questions on whether even the Mahabharata was the work of a single person, leave alone the puranas.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

[Nagaraj Paturi]

older thread on multiple vyasas:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/bvparishat/Bhagavad$20gita$20me$20ashok$20aklujkar%7Csort:date/bvparishat/3dFmk_4vmd0/Asqk4D0EG2wJ

[Nityanand Misra]

On Thursday, 13 September 2018 12:09:48 UTC+5:30, shankara wrote:

Pranams to all,

In the preface to 'Bhagavata Bhasha Pariccheda', Charudeva Sastry observes that 'the language of the Bhagavata differs widely from the other 17 Puranas which betray a community  of language. The style too is markedly dissimilar. This is a stern reality which none dare deny'.

Some context around this. I believe Charudeva Shastri was influenced by the Arya Samaja, whose position on Shrimadbhagavata Purana is well-known. Its founder Dayananda Sarasvati was known to attack the language and matter of the Shrimadbhagavata Purana. In the Satyartha Prakasha, he ridicules the author of Shrimadbhagavata Purana (and other Purana-s also). I recall reading somewhere that he belaboured the point that कथितो वंशविस्तारो (10.1.1) is non-Paninian and shows the ignorance of the author of the work. I have not read Charudeva Shastri’s work, but the language seems to be polemic (e.g. सर्वथा स्तनन्धय इव लोहलः कविः). 

Can the same poet or author write in two different styles? Definitely. One finds many stanzas with dandaka-style long samasa-s and highly Sanskritized language in the Vinayapatrika of Tulasidasa whose language and style are very different from those in the the Ramacharitamanasa. Are there similar usages in other Purana-s as Bhagavata? Possibly yes (I am not sure if Charudeva Shastri has compared Bhagavata with other Purana-s in this work). The traditional view is that Vyasa wrote the Shrimadbhagavata Mahapurana after writing all others. 

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Regarding Bhagavadgita :

Multiple layers argument is in 

Quest for the original Gita by G S Khair

On the unity:

https://www.academia.edu/21508955/Paradigm_lost_The_application_of_the_historical-critical_method_to_the_Bhagavadgita

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Discussion on Khair's book:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/bvparishat/gita$20interpolations%7Csort:date/bvparishat/tf6zCKs3YPE/xlfwm9z6HQAJ

[vasantkumar bhatt]

I would like to attach my article on the  linguistic analysis of the Markandeya Purana. It shows that sometimes some interpolater , who doesn't know how to compose verses in  अनुष्टुप् , have ventured to include an Upaakhyaana like Harishchandra in this Puaran !!! 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

[shankara]

Siva Senani ji, Paturiji,

Thanks for pointing out the possibility of a poet writing in variety of genres in a variety of registers.

regards
shankara

[shankara]

Misraji,

Thank you for the kind response.

It seems you are right. Charudeva Sastri's goal seems to be to prove that the Bhagavata is not the work of a Rishi. In twelve chapters of Bhagavata Bhasha Parichcheda, he examines more than 2500 verses from the Bhagavata and points out various flaws in them such as 'aprasiddha artha, klishtanvaya, apaaniniyaprayoga, durghata-samasa, chandobhangabhayad sabdavairupyam, anauchityam' etc.

What could be the reason(s) for Vyasa's composition of Bhagavata in a different style and language?

I would also like to know if someone has made a comparative study of the languages of the Bhagavata and other Puranas and Mahabharata.

regards
shankara

[shankara]

Bhatt ji,

Thanks for sharing your paper on Markandeya Purana. It is easy to understand when a scholar identifies certain part of a Purana as interpolation.

In Charudeva Sastri's preface, the authorship of a Purana is questioned based on linguistic study pointing out the difference in language and style. This prompted me to post the query at BVP.

regards

shankara

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Sri Shankara-ji,

Charudeva Sastri-ji is not alone in making such claims. 

For the general and common features of modern accounts you might want to see

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavata_Purana#Modern_scholarship

Modern scholarship dates its composition to between 500 CE to 1000 CE, but most likely between 800 and 1000 CE.^[17] A version of the text existed no later than 1030 CE, when it is mentioned by al Biruni^[17] and quoted by Abhinavagupta. The Bhagavata Purana abounds in references to verses of the Vedas, the primary Upanishads, the Brahma Sutra of Vedanta school of Hindu philosophy, and the Bhagavad Gita, suggesting that it was composed after these texts.^[49] The text contains more details of Krishna's biography than the 3rd- 4th-century Harivamsha and Vishnu Purana, and is therefore likely to have been composed after these texts, suggesting a chronological range of 500–1000 CE.^[17][50] Within this range, scholars such as R. C. Hazra date it to the first half of the 6th century CE, Bryant as well as Gupta and Valpey citing epigraphical and archaeological evidence suggest much of the text could be from the 4th to 7th century,^[51][52] while most others place it in the post-Alvar period around the 9th century.^[17][53][54] Parts of the text use an archaic Vedic flavour of Sanskrit, which may either suggest that its authors sought to preserve or express reverence for the Vedic tradition, or that some text has an earlier origin.^[49] There are two flavors of Krishna stories, one of warrior prince and another of romantic lover, the former composed in more archaic Sanskrit and the later in a different linguistic style, suggesting that the texts may not have been composed by one author or over a short period, but rather grew over time as a compilation of accretions from different hands.^[10][55]

The Bhagavata Purana contains apparent references to the South Indian Alvar saints and it makes a post factum prophecy of the spread of Vishnu worship in Tamil country (BP XI.5.38–40);^[27][50] these facts, along with its emphasis on "emotional Bhakti to Krishna" and the "Advaita philosophy of Sankara", lead many scholars to trace its origins to South India.^[5] However, J. A. B. van Buitenen points out that 10th–11th CE South Indian Vaishnava theologians Yamuna and Ramanuja do not refer to Bhagavata Purana in their writings, and this anomaly needs to be explained before the geographical origins and dating are regarded as definitive.^[27][50]

Since the 19th-century, most scholars believe that the Bhagavata Purana was written by a group of learned Brahmin ascetics, probably in South India, who were well versed in Vedic and ancient Indian literature and influenced by the Alvars.^[56] Postmodern scholars have suggested alternate theories.^[57]

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 6:48 PM, 'shankara' via भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत् <bvpar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Bhatt ji,

Thanks for sharing your paper on Markandeya Purana. It is easy to understand when a scholar identifies certain part of a Purana as interpolation.

In Charudeva Sastri's preface, the authorship of a Purana is questioned based on linguistic study pointing out the difference in language and style. This prompted me to post the query at BVP.

regards

shankara

On Thursday, 13 September, 2018, 3:01:40 PM IST, vasantkumar bhatt <bhatt...@hotmail.com> wrote:

I would like to attach my article on the  linguistic analysis of the Markandeya Purana. It shows that sometimes some interpolater , who doesn't know how to compose verses in  अनुष्टुप् , have ventured to include an Upaakhyaana like Harishchandra in this Puaran !!! 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------

From: Nityanand Misra <nmi...@gmail.com>

Date: 13/09/2018 14:46 (GMT+05:30)

To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत् <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Language of Srimad Bhagavata Purana

On Thursday, 13 September 2018 12:09:48 UTC+5:30, shankara wrote:

Pranams to all,

In the preface to 'Bhagavata Bhasha Pariccheda', Charudeva Sastry observes that 'the language of the Bhagavata differs widely from the other 17 Puranas which betray a community  of language. The style too is markedly dissimilar. This is a stern reality which none dare deny'.

Some context around this. I believe Charudeva Shastri was influenced by the Arya Samaja, whose position on Shrimadbhagavata Purana is well-known. Its founder Dayananda Sarasvati was known to attack the language and matter of the Shrimadbhagavata Purana. In the Satyartha Prakasha, he ridicules the author of Shrimadbhagavata Purana (and other Purana-s also). I recall reading somewhere that he belaboured the point that कथितो वंशविस्तारो (10.1.1) is non-Paninian and shows the ignorance of the author of the work. I have not read Charudeva Shastri’s work, but the language seems to be polemic (e.g. सर्वथा स्तनन्धय इव लोहलः कविः). 

Can the same poet or author write in two different styles? Definitely. One finds many stanzas with dandaka-style long samasa-s and highly Sanskritized language in the Vinayapatrika of Tulasidasa whose language and style are very different from those in the the Ramacharitamanasa. Are there similar usages in other Purana-s as Bhagavata? Possibly yes (I am not sure if Charudeva Shastri has compared Bhagavata with other Purana-s in this work). The traditional view is that Vyasa wrote the Shrimadbhagavata Mahapurana after writing all others. 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

[G S S Murthy]

Has Adi Sanakara made any reference to Bhagavata?

Regards,

Murthy

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

My web site : http://murthygss.tripod.com/index.htm
and also my Sanskrit blog :

http://simplesanskrit.blogspot.com/

http://gssmurthy.blogspot.com

[Sivasenani Nori]

On Thu 13 Sep, 2018, 9:32 PM G S S Murthy, <murt...@gmail.com> wrote:

Has Adi Sanakara made any reference to Bhagavata?

Regards,

Murthy

No. 

Regards 

N Siva Senani 

[Venkatesh Murthy]

Namaste

In Prabodha Sudhakara the Acharya is explaining some incidents from Bhagavata like cows and Gopas loving the young ones created and duplicated by Krishna. 

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Regards

 

-Venkatesh

[V Subrahmanian]

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 9:32 PM G S S Murthy <murt...@gmail.com> wrote:

Has Adi Sanakara made any reference to Bhagavata?

In the Bhagavadgita 18th ch. occurs this verse:

संन्यासस्य महाबाहो तत्त्वमिच्छामि वेदितुम् । 
त्यागस्य च हृषीकेश पृथक्केशिनिषूदन ॥ १ ॥

For the word 'keshi-nishuudana' Shankara recounts the keshi-killing by Krishna.  Not sure if this story occurs in some other purana or Mahabharata, but the story is there in the Bhagavatam.

 

संन्यासस्य संन्यासशब्दार्थस्य इत्येतत् , हे महाबाहो, तत्त्वं तस्य भावः तत्त्वम् , याथात्म्यमित्येतत् , इच्छामि वेदितुं ज्ञातुम् , त्यागस्य च त्यागशब्दार्थस्येत्येतत् , हृषीकेश, पृथक् इतरेतरविभागतः केशिनिषूदन केशिनामा हयच्छद्मा कश्चित् असुरः तं निषूदितवान् भगवान् वासुदेवः, तेन तन्नाम्ना सम्बोध्यते अर्जुनेन ॥ १ ॥ 

regards

subrahmanian,v

[Yogesh Pandya]

शङ्करमहाभागेभ्यो  वन्दनानि । 

भागवतभाषापरिच्छेदाख्यो ग्रन्थः कृपया$त्र अनुबध्नन्तु येन तद्दृष्टुं शक्येत । 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[shankara]

Pandya ji,

Bhagavata Bhasha Parichcheda is available at the link given below. I had already added this link in one of my earlier posts in this thread.

Bhagavata Bhasha Parichchedah Charudeva Shastri Vishveshvaranand Institute Publications : nindi punj : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Bhagavata Bhasha Parichchedah Charudeva Shastri Vishveshvaranand Institu... Dharma Texts, 'Bhagavata Bhasha Parichchedah Charudeva Shastri Vishveshvaranand Institute Publications.pdf'

regards
shankara

[Yogesh Pandya]

Thank you very much...Shankaraji ! 

With PranAms

Yogesh Pandya

[Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan]

Shankara-ji,

A long time back, when there was not even the mosaic browser in the scene yet, someone interviewed the now retired Professor George Hart of Berkeley by email and posted this (among other things) in the news-group soc.culture.tamil:

One of the most intriguing contributions of the Tamil area to Sanskrit 
is the Bhagavatapurana.  It is pretty universally agreed that it was 
written by a Tamilian and that it is filled with motifs and themes from 
the Divyaprabandha and other Tamil literature.  Its author also uses 
"Vedic" forms -- sometimes incorrectly! -- to try to make it sound old 
and hoary.  This work has catalyzed Bhakti movements all over India and 
is, arguably, one of the most important works in the Sanskrit language.  
An example of a Tamilism is the word avamocana, "inn."  This occurs 
nowhere else in Sanskrit -- it is clearly a translation of Tamil viTuti.     

For whatever that's worth, I am just presenting something I heard a long time back. I don't know if there is any detailed study of alleged Tamilisms. 

There is also a tradition of arguments within the Indian scholastic tradition itself on which was the "original" bhAgavatam - the devI-bhAgavatam or the vaiShNava one. A book called durjana-mukha-chapeTikA apparently alleges that the devI is the original one and the vaiShNava one is a forgery and a work of the grammarian vopadeva. An answer to this was supposedly provided by the work durjana-mukha-padma-pAdukA, which was supposedly refuted again by durjana-mukha-mahAchapeTikA. This controversy is summarized quite well by Ludo Rocher in his book "The Puranas" in the History of Indian Literature Series. I have not read any of these polemical works myself. 

Ramakrishnan

[Madhav Deshpande]

Dear Shri Ramakrishnan,

Photographs of a manuscript titled Durjana-mukha-capeṭikā by Rāmāśrama are available at the University of Pennsylvania website:

http://dla.library.upenn.edu/dla/medren/detail.html?id=MEDREN_9946264393503681

Madhav M. Deshpande

Professor Emeritus

Sanskrit and Linguistics

University of Michigan

[Residence: Campbell, California]

[Madhav Deshpande]

Another important book is "Bhagavata Purana: A Linguistic Study" by Ashutosh Sarma Biswas.  A pdf of this book is available at:

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.406551

Madhav M. Deshpande

Professor Emeritus

Sanskrit and Linguistics

University of Michigan

[Residence: Campbell, California]

[K S Kannan]

The Penn in Hand has its last line as 

durjanamukhacapacapetika

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

The stories in the text of Srimad Bhagavata Purana being much older than the date given by modern scholars to it and those stories being prevalent in north India much earlier than that date can not be disputed. 

These modern scholars might be talking about the date of composition of the extant text of the book. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliodorus_pillar#Inscriptions

There are two inscriptions on the pillar.^[specify]

The first inscription describes in Brahmi script the situation of Heliodorus and his relationship to the Shunga Empire and the Indo-Greek Kingdom.

Devadevasa Va[sude]vasa Garudadhvajo ayam
karito i[a] Heliodorena bhaga
vatena Diyasa putrena Takhasilakena
Yonadatena agatena maharajasa
Amtalikitasa upa[m]ta samkasam-rano
Kasiput[r]asa [Bh]agabhadrasa tratarasa
vasena [chatu]dasena rajena vadhamanasa

^[2]

The Heliodorus pillar inscription, made by Heliodorus circa 110 BCE.

Rubbing of the inscriptions.

This Garuda-standard of Vāsudeva, the God of Gods 
was erected here by the devotee Heliodoros,
the son of Dion, a man of Taxila,
sent by the Great Yona King
Antialkidas, as ambassador to
King Kasiputra Bhagabhadra, the Savior
son of the princess from Varanasi, in the fourteenth year of his reign.

^[8]

The second inscription on the pillar describes in more detail the spiritual content of the faith supported by Heliodorus:

Trini amutapadani‹[su] anuthitani
nayamti svaga damo chago apramado

Three immortal precepts (footsteps)... when practiced
lead to heaven: self-restraint, charity, consciousness

Richard Salomon gives a similar but slightly different translation:^[2]

"This Garuda-pillar of Vãsudeva, the god of gods, was constructed here by Heliodora, the Bhãgavata, son of Diya, of Takhkhasilã, the Greek ambassador who came from the Great King Amtalikita to King Kãsîputra Bhãgabhadra, the Savior, prospering in (his) fourteenth regnal year. (These?) three steps to immortality, when correctly followed, lead to heaven: control, generosity, and attention.^[9]

There is an older thread on the use of the word Bhaagavata:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/bvparishat/Heliodorus%7Csort:date/bvparishat/baT_9Btqieo/sFWRkDSgEwAJ

[Nagaraj Paturi]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishna_Vasudeva

should also be helpful. 

[shankara]

Ramakrishnan ji,

I was at first surprised by George Hart's comment on Bhagavata's South Indian origin. But, when I started looking at journal articles on this subjects I found that several scholars had pointed to this possibility, starting with CV Vaidya in 1925. Most interesting is an article by Amar Nath Ray titled 'Domicile of the Author of the Bhagavata Purana' published in IHQ in 1932 in which he concludes that the author of the Bhagavata was from South India, Dravida Desa in particular. I am not aware if some scholar has challenged this view.

PDF of the article by Amar Nath Ray is attached.

regards
shankara

[Venkatesh Murthy]

Namaste

We have heard two points here. One there are many grammatical  mistakes in Bhagavata and Two it was composed by a grammarian Vopadeva. Both cannot be true. Why will a grammarian compose with so many mistakes? It may be realistic to think there was some ancient manuscript of Bhagavata and then some others from South India added text to it. 

Moreover Amar Nath Ray thinks South Indians except Adi Sankara cannot write graceful Sanskrit. He is not correct. Appayya Dikshita wrote beautiful Sanskrit. Then Ray may say there are exceptions. It is not a convincing  argument.

--

Regards

 

-Venkatesh

[L Srinivas]

There are two other general studies you may want to look at:

1. J A B Van Buitenen, On the Archaism of the Bhagavata Purana, available in SInger, Milton (ed.) Krishna: Myths, Rites and Attitudes. Honolulu, East-West Center Press. 1966. This article poses and seeks to answer the question: Why did the author or authors responsible for the final version of the Bhagavata want the book to sound Vedic?  

2. Also Appendix XII of Friedhelm Hardy's Viraha Bhakti, The Early History of Krsna Devotion in South India, contains a listing of parallel passages in the Bhagavata Purana and the Divya Prabandham. The book's divided into 6 parts, with the first 4 parts devoted to a study of the Divya Prabandham, the fifth to the Bhagavata Purana and the 6th to an evaluation. The thesis is that the Divya Prabandham reflects an emotional Krishna bhakti which seems to have inspired the Bhagavata Purana. 

Hope this helps,

Srini

[V Subrahmanian]

I also heard from a Vishishtadvaitin that there are some texts prior  or contemporary to Ramanuja that have cited the Bhagavatam.  He did not name those books, though.  Scholars here from the Ramanuja following may please clarify on this.

Thanks and regards

subrahmanian.v 

[R. N. iyengar]

Dear Sri Shankara,

My two Paise of discussion:

Bhagavata basic version might have been very ancient. But is it necessary for us to contend that all 18 puraNas have been maintained  exactly in their original form very similar to the Vedic texts? After careful comparison of astronomical and geographical contents of some of the Purana texts concerning Krishna, I feel additions (perhaps deletions also) in  the available versions can not be ruled out. Here I restrict my attention to the Bhagavata as compared with MB. Balarama in MB goes out during the war for 42 days only. In the Bahagavata he is said to have toured south India also crossing Vindhya,  for one year. Pl see extracts from 10th book, Ch 78.  One can certainly write in different styles, but why would the same author make contradictory statements? Is there any logical explanation (other than as later interpolation) for such dramatic changes?

kind regards

RN Iyengar

----

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 11:54 AM rniyengar <narayana...@gmail.com> wrote:

[shankara]

Murthy ji,

It is true that both theories cannot be true. Charudeva Sastri who wrote on the apaniniya prayogas and other grammatical defects in Bhagavata, did not say that Bhagavata was a composition of Bopadeva. So, there is no surpise there.

Theory of Bopadeva's authorship of the Bhagavata is rejected by most scholars. In an article on the 'Date of Bhagavata', published in ABORI in 1933, BNK Sharma clearly states that 'the theory of Bopadeva's authorship doesn't need elaborate refutation since no scholar with any reputation to lose would now think of upholding such a view.'

Regarding Amar Nath Ray's article, I can understand if you disagree with his connecting the stiffness of Sanskrit poetry with South India. But, that doesn't make his other points invalid.

regards
shankara

h

[shankara]

Sriniji,

Thanks a lot for providing these refernces.

I will look into them.

regards
shankara

[shankara]

Iyengar ji,

Thanks for your the reference regarding Balarama's pilgrimage. There is no doubt that all Puranas might contain interpolated passages and chapters. The author of 'Domicile of the author of the Bhagavata Purana' also cites this discrepancy in the description of Balarama's pilgrimage in the Mahabharata and the Bhagavata.

regards
shankara

[V Subrahmanian]

There are discrepancies with regard to amrita mathana, Shiva drinking the poison, in the Bhagavata viz-a-viz various puranas which clearly point to interpolations. 

regards

subrahmanian.v

[Sivakumar,Kollam]

SAdar praNAmamm,

 I remember attending a discussion on the language of Srimad Bhagavatha.My sanskrit master quoted from Some works of Sri Ramanujacharya that the language was described as "saMAdhi bhAsha"by Acharya. That itself is the greatness of it and only those with "athyantha sradha" and "Asthikya budhi" could only get the purport of it becuase in the state of samAdhi the vaighari that comes out could be understood only by another in the same state and need not comply with the "primitive logic " of ordinary human beings.

How far this is acceptable is another aspect.

With praNAms 

Prof. Sivakumar 

[Kalyan K]

In the Mahabharata and vishnu purana, there is no mention of Shiva drinking poison at all. Vishnu Sukthankar writes that Shiva drinking poison is found only in Southern manuscripts of Mahabharata.

[Srinivasakrishnan ln]

Shankara

Since you started with Charudeva Shastri, you may want to look at yet another chapter by chapter linguistic study. Such a study is available.

Biswas, A S. Bhagavata Purana - A Linguistic Study. Dibrugarh, 1968. I remember seeing it sometime back on DLI or archive.org. I dont remember which. 

The author does not seem to know Tamil so he cites linguistic sources and lexicons when he comments on some usage peculiarities. Hardy however explains some of Biswas' entries citing Tamil usage or by citing the Divya Prabandham itself. 

Hope this helps, 

Srini

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/bvparishat/Mo3awJv-kEM/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

[Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan]

Shankara-ji,

Thanks. While I am not up to the mark in historical topics, quite frankly many studies on "place of origin" that I have seen are guess-work on top of other very shaky guess-work. I saw the other reference to  Friedhelm Hardy's Viraha Bhakti which seemed to address the topic directly. An internet search tells me that this book is sold second hand for for a cool $350 or something. Another internet search led me to his wikepedia page where the results of one of Hardy's "research breakthroughs" is described as

After long studies in India, Fred Hardy came up with a theory as to the meaning of erotic sculptures, such as for example visible on the temples of Khajuraho. The erotic sculptures are visible on may temple of the South India, the main area of expertise of Hardy. This theory was first expressed to him by people in a temple's environs. Fred Hardy theorised that the erotic sculptures on the outer walls of Hindu temples are intended to keep away demons from the pure sanctuary of the shrines. 

Hopefully his book is no where in the same level of  Mount Kilimanjaro level "I pulled it from where the sun don't shine" garbage, but I think I am not going to be buying any book whose author has produced gems of wisdom like these, without going through it first :-).

Ramakrishnan

[Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan]

Prof. Deshpande,

Thank you for the two references.

Ramakrishnan

[L Srinivas]

I've heard of judging a book by its cover. But by the price of the used book - that too in the American market? I got my copy from OUP India for Rs 495/- just a few years back. 

There's much data in his book which he worked over 16 years. He seems to be nearly the only person in recent times who has studied both the Divyaprabandham and the Bhagavata Purana, which is something that can not be said for any of the other dozen or so authors who have been cited in this thread. Unlike some people, he didnt seem to have seen red or felt it 'aśauca' to hear a non Sanskrit work being mentioned. He visited Chennai and studied it and commentaries thereof with traditional pundits, and worked on it for those long years. Evidently, he seems to have respected the Indian adage that 'vidvāneva vijanāti' etc.  

  

Cheers,

Srini

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Once, one Tamilian friend asked me my opinion on a theory that AtharvaNa Veda among the four Vedas was a contribution of Tamils. I said, " why atharvaNa Veda alone, all the four Vedas should be theorised to be composed by Tamils. This solves this whole Aryan-Dravidian problem."

The south Indian author of Bhaagavata puraaNa describes Yamuna river etc. as the backdrop of Krishna activities. Bhakti cults centred around Bhaagavata puraaNa are widespread in north India where the book composed by the south Indian Tamil author is held as sirOdhaarya by the pundit and the public alike. Thus bhaagavata puraaNa can be seen to be one of the prime contributors to national integration. 

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

[Dr.BVK Sastry(G-MAIL)]

Namaste

 

Interesting observation and some points to connect on ‘understanding the language of Srimad Bhaagavatam’:

 

1. On < "saMAdhi bhAsha"by Acharya  >  :

    This is more likely to connect with Gita expression of ‘ Language used by Sthitaprajna’ (2-54) :  

 

                         स्थितप्रज्ञस्य का भाषा समाधिस्थस्य केशव । स्थितधीः किं प्रभाषेत किमासीत व्रजेत किम् ॥

                           **

                        sthitaprajñasya kā bhāṣā samādhisthasya keśava,

                        sthitadhīḥ kiṁ prabhāṣeta kimāsīta vrajeta kim. 

 

This ‘Samadhibhashaa’ is   the language of  eighth layer of yogaanga , called ‘Samskrutham’.   

 ‘Samskrutham’ as ‘Yoga-Bhashaa’  has multiple layers: by Yoga and Yogaanga ( Ashtaanga) layers.

 

The name for language of rest of the seven  ‘yogaanga’s’   and Different yoga’s is a separate discussion on the ‘ Vak-Yoga’ Tradition, which addresses how to study ‘Samskrutham as the language of Yoga/s’ ?  One thing  stands for sure: The Biblical Tower of Babel model , the PIE and Socio-Histrical Lingusitics model fails to give a correct picture of ‘ What is /was/ should be  Samskrutham’ !

 

2.  IF as it is widely accepted/ believed by tradition , the language of ‘srimad Bhaagavatha’  is ‘Samskrutham’;

             AND ‘Samskrutham’ is ‘ Language of   Srimad Bhaagavatam, propounding   ‘Bhakti-Yoga’  ,

 

     Then the technical classification of  Language used for  Bhaagavatam would be ‘Ishwara- Pranidhaana/ Bhakti – Yoga- Bhashaa’  under ‘ Samskrutham as  Yoga Bhashaa / Vak- yoga.   Tamil Vaishnava tradition would call this as ‘ Guhya Bhashaa / Siddha Bhashaa (= Secret, encoded, encrypted language of Siddha Class of Yogi’s.  Yogi’s get in to siddha class after they attain the perfection in eight yogaanga called ‘ Samadhi’.  This is endorsed in Patanjali Yoga-Sutra.

 

3.  Panini- Patanjali- Yaska tradition of ‘ Linguistics of Veda- and related texts’ provides the guidance to study – understand- use the  texts as appropriate for the ‘ Yoga- Level for which they are narrated.  Veda is  for ‘Darshana’;  Upa-Veda is for applied Vedas  for utility applications; Vedaangas are Language Tools. This is the ‘Vedanga model of Linguistics ( Bhashaa- Shaastra) of ‘ Samadhi Bhashaa’.

 

4.   On <…. in the state of samAdhi the vaighari that comes out could be understood only by another in the same state and need not comply with the "primitive logic " of ordinary human beings. How far this is acceptable is another aspect. >   The entire debate and analysis on the ‘ Language of Srimad Bhaagavatam’ is vitiated by three violations:

  - Looking at Bhaagavata  as a ‘ narrative composition’ of a specific period, without any connection to the yoga stream, the purana backdrop, and Mahabharata as Fifth veda connection.

 

-  Unquestioned acceptance of ‘ Divide of Vedic texts in to water tight social compartments under  tags of  ‘Saivism- Vaishnavism’ which are against each other.

 

- Too much credence to the ‘ Human Eroticism’ gate to study the ‘ Sacred Text’.  Which has lead to the  failure to get the ‘ clarity on Samskruth Terms ‘ Sam- Yoga / Sam- Yukta (= United) ’  versus  ‘Sam-Bhoga/ Sam-Bhukta (Consumed for  human gender paired  passionate consummation).   The quote from Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan’s post. <    After long studies in India, Fred Hardy came up with a theory as to the meaning of erotic sculptures, such as for example visible on the temples of Khajuraho. The erotic sculptures are visible on may temple of the South India, the main area of expertise of Hardy. This theory was first expressed to him by people in a temple's environs. Fred Hardy theorised that the erotic sculptures on the outer walls of Hindu temples are intended to keep away demons from the pure sanctuary of the shrines. >.

 

There seems to be a terrible critical need to revisit Indian’s understanding of their native texts and traditions, and align it to the ‘ Acharya Sampradaaya’.  I agree on the observation < How far this is acceptable is another aspect. >

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

[shankara]

Sriniji,

I had also seen Biswas's book at archive.org. His work resembles that of Charudeva Sastry. I think both the scholars worked simultaneously, without being aware of the other's work.

Biswas doesn't make any remarks regarding the authorship or the date of SB except in the preface, where he simply makes one statement about the probable date of SB - 'I venture to suggest that the composition of the Purana should be considerably antedated than the twelfth century AD usually assigned to it.'

As you wrote he is silent on the Tamil influences on the Bhagavata language.

regards
shankara

[Subrahmanyam Korada]

नमो विद्वद्भ्यः

Is it possible for a poet write a kavya in a style totally different from all his other works?   

                                                                                        ----- Vidvan Shankara

Do not take such comments seriously ---

we have evidence ---

भज गोविन्दं भज गोविन्दमं गोविन्दमं भज मूढमते । 

संप्राप्ते सन्निहिते काले न हि न हि रक्षति डुकृञ् करणे ॥

विश्वं दर्पणदृश्यमाननगरीतुल्यं निजान्तर्गतम् 

पश्यन्नात्मनि मायया बहिरिवोद्भूतं यथा निद्रया ।

यस्साक्षात्कुरुते प्रबोधसमये स्वात्मानमेवाद्वयं

तस्मै श्रीगुरुमूर्तये नम इदं श्रीदक्षिणामूर्तये ॥

युष्मदस्मत्प्रत्ययगोचरयोः विषयविषयिणोः तमःप्रकाशवद्विरुद्धस्वभावयोः इतरेतरभावानुपपत्तौ सिद्धायां तद्धर्माणामपि सुतरां

इतरेतरभावानुपपत्तिः इत्यतः अस्मत्प्रत्ययगोचरे विषयिणि चिदात्मके युष्मत्प्रत्ययगोचरस्य विषयस्य तद्धर्माणां च अध्यासः

तद्विपर्ययेण विषयिणः तद्धर्माणां च विषये’ध्यासो मिथ्येति भवितुं युक्तम् ( ब्रह्मसूत्रशांकरभाष्यम् - अध्यासभाष्यम्)

It is सार्वजनीनम् that  शंकराचार्य authored all the above for मन्दाधिकारी , मध्यमाधिकारी and उत्तमाधिकारी ।

विद्वान् चारुदेवशास्त्री   thinks that since he or people known to him (may be some from West) did not have the capacity to compile a text like that it is the same case with others also .

शंकराचार्य ( ब्रह्मसूत्रशांकरभाष्यम् , 1-3-33)  heckles such people --

भवति हि अस्माकम् अप्रत्यक्षमपि चिरन्तनानां प्रत्यक्षम् । तथा च व्यासादयो देवताभिः प्रत्यक्षं व्यवहरन्तीति स्मर्यते ।

यस्तु ब्रूयात् इदानीन्तनानाम् इव पूर्वेषामपि नास्ति देवादिभिः व्यवहर्तुं सामर्थ्यम् इति स जगद्वैचित्र्यम् प्रतिषेधेत् ।

इदानीमिव च नान्यदापि सार्वभौमः क्षत्रियो’स्तीति ब्रूयात् । ततश्च राजसूयदिचोदना उपरुन्ध्यात् । इदानीमिव च कालान्तरे

अपि अव्यवस्थितप्रायान् वर्णाश्रमधर्मान् प्रतिजानीत । ततश्च व्यवस्थाविधायि शास्त्रम् अनर्थकं स्यात् ।

........ ऋषीणामपि मन्त्रब्राह्मणदर्शिनां सामर्थ्यं नास्मदीयेन सामर्थ्येन उपमातुं युक्तम् ! तस्मात् समूलमितिहासपुराणम्।

May be the scholar did not digest the purport of योगानुशासनम् (मूलम्) - योगिप्रत्यक्षम् | Translation will

not do .

Nor did he study ज्योतिषम् -- he should have studied at least a 1000 जातकचक्राणि (horoscopes) then it 

would have been clear to him as to why there will be difference in the mental and physical capabilities

of different people .

A person who did not study 14 विद्यास्थानs cannot comment on a पुराणम् like भागवतम् which is the essence 

of वेदान्त ।

A rather राजसं समाधानम् -- I studied 14+ विद्यस्थानानि , was a farmer (agriculture -- both cultivation and 

livestock) for 21 years , am a plumber , electrician, motorbike mechanic etc .

If you have शनि in उच्च (zenith) in  अष्टमस्थानम् then it is possible to become  a jack of all trades.

अपाणिनीयम् is not an अपशब्द -- पाणिनि himself employed an अपाणिनीयशब्द -- ’अपरस्पराः क्रियासातत्ये ’

(6-1-139)-- ’सातत्ये ’ is अपाणिनीय ।

उत्तमः -

शब्दान्तरमिदं विद्यात् दृष्टमभ्यन्तरं त्रिषु -- महाभाष्यम् , अणिञोरनार्षयोः गुरूपोत्तमयोः ष्यङ् गोत्रे , पा 4-1-78 

उत्तमशब्दः अव्युत्पन्नः इति तात्पर्यम् ।

उद्गतं तमः यस्मात् सः उत्तमः -- श्रीधरव्याख्यानम् , भागवतम् ,  1

Almost all पुराणs have interpolations - especially स्कन्दपुराणम् ( 1,00,000 श्लोकाः )

It is a waste of time to even think that some scholar from South India authored  भागवतम् ।

धन्यो’स्मि

धन्यो’स्मि

Dr.Korada Subrahmanyam
Professor of Sanskrit, CALTS,
University of Hyderabad,
Ph:09866110741(M),91-40-23010741(R),040-23133660(O)

Skype Id: Subrahmanyam Korada

Blog: Koradeeyam.blogspot.in 

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 5:38 PM 'shankara' via भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत् <bvpar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Siva Senani ji, Paturiji,

Thanks for pointing out the possibility of a poet writing in variety of genres in a variety of registers.

regards
shankara

On Thursday, 13 September, 2018, 1:42:35 PM IST, Sivasenani Nori <sivas...@gmail.com> wrote:

Shankara ji

There are two views. Vyasa is verily the Avatara of Vishnu and what is not possible for him? So any difference in style is easily explicable.

Another view is that everything has to happen exactly as we know, the underlying assumption being that the only paradigm which is ever possible is that which can be explained by our current stage of knowledge. And often, in order to fit our theories. So notwithstanding the great variety in the language used by authors in our own lifetime (my grandfather wrote a variety of genres in a variety of registers, for instance), we have to force fit an interpretation on the past, evidence not being mandatory.

Regards 

N. Siva Senani 

On Thu 13 Sep, 2018, 12:10 PM 'shankara' via भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्, <bvpar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Pranams to all,

In the preface to 'Bhagavata Bhasha Pariccheda', Charudeva Sastry observes that 'the language of the Bhagavata differs widely from the other 17 Puranas which betray a community  of language. The style too is markedly dissimilar. This is a stern reality which none dare deny'.

He also says, "Admittedly this Purana is not the composition of the sage Vyasa. Yet, it is the work of a scholar steeped in traditional learning and gifted with a high intellectual stamina..."

Is it possible for a poet write a kavya in a style totally different from all his other works?

regards
shankara

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

[shankara]

Korada ji,

Thank you very much for responding to my query.

Your explanation and examples are really helpful.

regards
shankara

[K S Kannan]

Biswas betrays greater concern about Vedic sources of some of the ideas/usages,

and about some cognate expressions in IE etc. rather than origins or chronology.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/bvparishat/Mo3awJv-kEM/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[K S Kannan]

Apropos Prof. Paturi on Atharva Veda etc.

Complex issues invariably have simple solutions.

A Muslim once claimed he had an easy solution to the issue of communal clashes in India:

convert all Hindus to Islam !

Some prefer dissolution thus of the problem to solution.

[Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan]

A little late, but apropos of books and covers, perhaps you should the whole mail and also read the quote I provided from Wikipedia. Of course one quote does not a man make, but judging by the complete and utter stupidity in that quote, I expressed my fear of buying this book without at least flipping through it. Nothing to do with the price itself per se.

Again if he did come to these supremely dumb conclusions as described about temple architectures and these being lauded as one of his key works,  I fear his other work is likely equally silly. Just my daytime job of being a probability theory using man coming into play here, when I consider my other such experiences with these kinds of scholars. White man goes to India, eats dosas and rice with his hand, perhaps wears a dhoti once in a while and is immediately lauded as an “expert”. I fear I have seen too many of these cases and am quite skeptical in my older age. Perhaps the editors in “The Mount road Mahavisnu” and other such organs will find these and professorships in western universities convincing, but not me. But I’ll certainly try to go through this book at some point of time, given that it is available inexpensive.  

Ramakrishnan 

[G S S Murthy]

In VishnupuraaNa nRusimha does not appear from the pillar. In Bhagavata, Nrusimhaavataara occurs. What probably is the reason for this discrepancy?

Regards,

Murthy

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

My web site : http://murthygss.tripod.com/index.htm
and also my Sanskrit blog :

http://simplesanskrit.blogspot.com/

http://gssmurthy.blogspot.com

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Dear Sri Murthy-ji,

Each narrative having several different versions is common place all over the world cultures. Different Puranas having different versions of the same narrative can be viewed as part of this aspect of human culture.

Alternatively, emic /tradition insider's interpretation for multiple versions of the same narrative is kalpa difference, This means as follows: Creation and events in it get repeated in every cycle of creation. During the repetition the events may not take place in exactly the same way as earlier. There can be small differences in details in different occurrences of the same event in different kalpas. 

------------

Apart from this, an event in an itihAsa/purANa work (this category includes Ramayana) not having avatAra view in one work and having avatAra view in another work is also well known. 

 

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

My web site : http://murthygss.tripod.com/index.htm
and also my Sanskrit blog :

http://simplesanskrit.blogspot.com/

http://gssmurthy.blogspot.com

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Director, Indic Academy of Sanskrit and Indological Studies.

[Harihara Krishnan]

Nrusimha story appears in several places in the Mahabharata, with significant variations. Certainly it had captured the popular imagination for a long time, and the story developed in the course of time. 

Hari 

On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 10:25 AM, G S S Murthy <murt...@gmail.com> wrote:

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

My web site : http://murthygss.tripod.com/index.htm
and also my Sanskrit blog :

http://simplesanskrit.blogspot.com/

http://gssmurthy.blogspot.com

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[G S S Murthy]

Many thanks, Paturiji. I thought in every kalpa a new set of Puranas will also get written. I agree with Mr Krishnan's statement, " the story developed in the course of time." Perhaps the story had crystallized by the time Bhagavata was composed.

Warm Regards,

Murthy

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

My web site : http://murthygss.tripod.com/index.htm
and also my Sanskrit blog :

http://simplesanskrit.blogspot.com/

http://gssmurthy.blogspot.com

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Vishal Agarwal]

In fact the very first work of Swami Dayanand Saraswati was the tract 'Bhagavata khandanam' which is now available in a print form. In those days, the Swami was a Shivabhakta and accordingly in this work,he repudiates the Bhagavatam showing how it is opposed to the Mahabharata and other Puranas, and that the true Bhagavata is actually Devi Bhagavata. He distributed several copies of his tract at a Kumbh Mela in Haridwar; and represented the Shaivite group in a debate with the Vaishnavas in Jaipur (the Maharaja at that time became a Shivabhakta and paintings of him in the Jaipur City Palace show him wearing a lot of Rudraksha maalas). Subsequently of course, the Swami repudiated all the Puranas.

Vishal

On Thursday, September 13, 2018, 7:21:13 AM CDT, 'shankara' via भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत् <bvpar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Misraji,

Thank you for the kind response.

It seems you are right. Charudeva Sastri's goal seems to be to prove that the Bhagavata is not the work of a Rishi. In twelve chapters of Bhagavata Bhasha Parichcheda, he examines more than 2500 verses from the Bhagavata and points out various flaws in them such as 'aprasiddha artha, klishtanvaya, apaaniniyaprayoga, durghata-samasa, chandobhangabhayad sabdavairupyam, anauchityam' etc.

What could be the reason(s) for Vyasa's composition of Bhagavata in a different style and language?

I would also like to know if someone has made a comparative study of the languages of the Bhagavata and other Puranas and Mahabharata.

regards
shankara

On Thursday, 13 September, 2018, 2:46:40 PM IST, Nityanand Misra <nmi...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, 13 September 2018 12:09:48 UTC+5:30, shankara wrote:

Pranams to all,

In the preface to 'Bhagavata Bhasha Pariccheda', Charudeva Sastry observes that 'the language of the Bhagavata differs widely from the other 17 Puranas which betray a community  of language. The style too is markedly dissimilar. This is a stern reality which none dare deny'.

Some context around this. I believe Charudeva Shastri was influenced by the Arya Samaja, whose position on Shrimadbhagavata Purana is well-known. Its founder Dayananda Sarasvati was known to attack the language and matter of the Shrimadbhagavata Purana. In the Satyartha Prakasha, he ridicules the author of Shrimadbhagavata Purana (and other Purana-s also). I recall reading somewhere that he belaboured the point that कथितो वंशविस्तारो (10.1.1) is non-Paninian and shows the ignorance of the author of the work. I have not read Charudeva Shastri’s work, but the language seems to be polemic (e.g. सर्वथा स्तनन्धय इव लोहलः कविः). 

Can the same poet or author write in two different styles? Definitely. One finds many stanzas with dandaka-style long samasa-s and highly Sanskritized language in the Vinayapatrika of Tulasidasa whose language and style are very different from those in the the Ramacharitamanasa. Are there similar usages in other Purana-s as Bhagavata? Possibly yes (I am not sure if Charudeva Shastri has compared Bhagavata with other Purana-s in this work). The traditional view is that Vyasa wrote the Shrimadbhagavata Mahapurana after writing all others. 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout

.

[Jsr Prasad]

Namaste.

While there are debates on which Bhagavatam is first, the Bhakti maarga seems to have no clash with the Jnana maarga. One of the most accomplished vaaggeyakaaras of South India, Sri Narayana Tirtha sings -

jaya jaya durge jita vairi varge viyadanilādi vicitra sarge

suṃdara tara caraṇāraviṃde sukhaparipālita lokabṛṃde 

naṃda sunaṃdādi yogi vaṃdye nārāyaṇa sodari parānaṃde

Regards