Devanagari QWERTY on MAC OS
Srinivasakrishnan ln
Shashi Joshi
Thanks,
Shashi
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Srinivasakrishnan ln
Shashi Joshi
Thanks,
Shashi
Dr.BVK Sastry(G-MAIL)
Namaste
The two statements below are deeply suspect, over stretched and need careful analysis.
There is a definite need and critical urgency to take stock of the Devanagari Samskruth typing- on any system (Mac Linux or Windows) that is mapping Devanagari varna- Akshara to Roman alphabetic system and calling it PHONETIC.
a) you can type the closest english spelling and it converts to correct devanagari most of the time. …. Works across all software that accept unicode.
This is NOT sufficient for Samskruth. There are inherent UNICODE challenges that remain unresolved, nay not even addressed in the software’s ! And the fault points , less spoken, better it is. As the statement goes, if the tea has gone wrong by mistakenly putting one spoon of sugar like looking salt’ instead of ‘sugar’, the tea cannot be repaired by adding two spoons of sugar as a compensation ! The entire tea ( = Word processing Software and Standards) need an ab initio remaking to be properly usable by the language community.
In many of my earlier posts on this topic, I have drawn attention to this point.
b) < Devanagari QWERTY is a phonetic keyboard. It works with all other word processors on my Mac, just not with MS Word >
Unless you qualify this statement with all the machine settings and version specifications and other font settings etc. Everyone is not privileged to have a Mac and Office suites upgrade !
Making Samskruth walk forcibly on the footprints of ‘English /roman alphabet Characters ( = Making Samskruth a Spelling mode language) ’ and ‘ simulate English likeness ( in code segments for pada-nishpatti /roopaavataara) to call it as ‘Samskruth Programming / Computational Sanskrit Linguistic advancement.
Summarily, SAMSKRUTH – DIGITAL DEVICE LIFE and HEALTH is surviving at the mercy of ‘ Technologists of software, OS and Standards’, while linguists are serving as ‘ window side observers and commentators ’ lamenting on degeneration of language representation in digital devices. Of course GOI Tax payers money is going on a huge drain , effectively disturbing the shape and structure of Paninian Langauge. ( I am limiting my comment to the context of Devanagari script ; while the statement has a wide applicability across all languages of Bharath.)
Presenting ‘Devanagari’ language script using the ‘ Roman alphabetic characters’ was a convention that was devised by Colonial missionary scholars for Non English Language studies and writing. This method has serious limitations and inherent dangers in diluting and distorting the ‘ Voice’ of ‘Samskruth’. The Patanjali term for this would be ‘ dushtah shabdah’. The legacy of defective mapping of earlier period has moved on smoothly from the ‘ TYPEWRITER made’ to ‘ KEYBOARD ( HARD AND SOFT) and is being recommend widely. The recent post I made on ‘ Naabhi – Naabha’ related in which extracted and presented web resources is one example of this. Coming back to Samskruth, Technologists have NOT given the right care that this language deserves to bring out its critical sensitivity to the level of an accent and an ending that can push the word and sentence meaning poles apart !
I can give several examples and illustrations on this. Anyone interested more on the work carried out by me in this regard and the solutions exploration, please write off line. ‘ Sanskrit is best suited language for Computers’ has remained a cliché till date.
Regards
BVK Sastry
Srinivasakrishnan ln
--
Shashi Joshi
I agree that it abstracts one level away from the devanagari script, but then anything except a pen and paper would be abstracting away from the life of a script. For, a script is not to be punched with one finger but to be drawn, calligraphied with a flowing pen or stylus.
Thanks,
Shashi
--
G S S Murthy
and also my Sanskrit blog :
Shashi Joshi
Thanks,
Shashi
Dr.BVK Sastry(G-MAIL)
Namaste Shashi Joshi
My responses are indented and placed below. The mute question here to ponder is:
^^^^^^^^^^^
1. BVK Sastry ( on ) :
------------------------------
From:
bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Shashi Joshi
Sent: Friday, 22 December, 2017 11:15 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Devanagari QWERTY
on MAC OS
I understand your point very well.
^^^^^^^^^^^
1. BVK Sastry : Thanks for recognizing the issue.
------------------------------
But many of us are used to english keyboards and for them it becomes very easy to have google input tool kind of solution.
Its limitation is only as much as of unicode font, which is only regarding some missing ligatures .
^^^^^^^^^^^
2. BVK Sastry ( on many of us are used to english keyboards and for them it becomes very easy to have Google input tool kind of solution ) :
2a) The privilege enjoyed by the ‘Technologists, comfortable with English spelling mode of Scripting Samskruth, cannot be pushed down the throat of the ‘ Samskruth / Non-English script Language’ to the
detrimental modification of the very primary and essential nature of script of language. This has a long range devastating effect on the very nature of Devanagari scripting conventions.
2b) There is a ‘ technology – nomenclature’ for this legacy leading to dangerous end. The technical term is ‘Romanization and Transliteration’.
Explore: http://www.eki.ee/wgrs/ ;
For Devanagari there are variant schemas of transliteration and Romanization. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devanagari_transliteration#Transliteration_comparison ) .
There are serious shortcomings in all these schemas.
2c) Here the question to ponder by the Samskruth language – Devanagari script loving technologist should be: How to bring out a ‘ Samskruth Language Appropriate Keyboard and keying in system’.
On the contra, the entire effort is seen in ‘Force-Fitting Devanagari/ every world language script over the template of Roman alphabet character set and phonetics’ and call it as a global solution under
‘UNICODE’.
One may look at the way Korean langauge, which has a comparable phonological complexity like Samskruth, and who have set out their guidelines to resolve similar challenges.
Select extracts reading below from url http://www.eki.ee/wgrs/rom2_ko.pdf : .
There are complicated rules based on pronunciation that determine the conversion of Korean syllables into Roman and the romanizations given in the table reflect only the most typical values.
Most changes concern consonants which are often assimilated when used in combinations. The rules differ in the various romanization systems and for reasons of economy these are not reproduced in this report. When romanization rules conflict with the pronunciation of a word, prefer to represent the pronunciation. http://www.loc.gov/catdir/cpso/romanization/korean.pdf
10. Words of Western Origin : Do not give special treatment to words of Western origin. Apply the McCuneReischauer romanization rules to words of Western origin, with exception of words beginning with
the letter ㄹ.
11. Romanization of Archaic Korean (옛한글) Insofar as possible, strictly apply McCune-Reischauer rules and tables for the romanization of vowels and consonants to the written forms of the words when
romanizing archaic Korean. Do not attempt to romanize archaic Korean following what may be the current pronunciation.
Is there any constraint for Devanagari Samskruth script loving ‘ Samskruth Technology teams’ and ‘ Devanagari script defending Indic language scholars’ to seek such a clause under UNICODE for Samskruth ?
What would prevent Samskruth teams from seeking a similar frame in Unicode?
------------------------------
I agree that it abstracts one level away from the devanagari script, but then
anything except a pen and paper would be abstracting away from the life of a
script. For, a script is not to be punched with one finger but to be drawn,
calligraphied with a flowing pen or stylus.
^^^^^^^^^^^
3 . BVK Sastry ( on finger Keying in and drawing Script shape by hand ) : The issues are connected, yet separate. There is no need to mix up keying in and pattern recognition issues.
When the current norm is punching a visual of a script shown on a key, make a stroke to get a screen display of the script, there are design issues.
Roman alphabet characters are non-agglutinating ; Devanagari Samskruth script are agglutinating and need a different set of diacritic markers to notate ‘ Chandas’.
Latin Character based IPA diacritics are not same as diacritics needed for Devanagari.
Once the narrow space of ‘ Roman alphabet Character set defined space on current QWERTY keyboard is realized’, the second effort of force fitting a larger alphabet set is like seeking a stability on a cone standing
on its cone-end and balancing it by placing weights on the peripheral at the top.
In other words, there is a need for a different keyboard design and layout, appropriate for Samskruth where the script feature has agglutinating characters and special diacritics for ‘ archaic phonologically complex sound unit representation as a glyph combination on screen and print’. And the hardware keyboard needs to generate a Unicode compliant output. User friendliness is a given consideration that need not be specially mentioned. Is there any team working on this direction ?
------------------------------
So as far as a quick solution for typing devanagari on a regular english keyboard goes, I strongly recommend google input tools. If one is not going to use english keyboard and is used to hindi typewriter or some other layout, then it is a different story. Then we sure need better solutions.
^^^^^^^^^^^
4. BVK Sastry ( on ) : The current quick solutions for tying devanagari on qwerty are problem ridden . Soft Key solutions and IME are not user friendly , certainly not for a beginner for language acquisition in a ‘ foreign language voice- noise-clutter free mode’.
I have developed a solution that covers all the expectations marked at point 3 above; and yet is economical even from Indian market user segment. The product is almost ready for launch, soon, waiting for some marketing related inputs. There is a hardware elegant solution option for ‘ Google Input Tools’ – software browser solution model to generate a Samskruth document from direct keying in .
The approach adapted ( Patented) is to embed a pre-processor to enhance the standard QWERTY Keyboard functionality.
The ‘ pre-processor enhanced QWERTY keyboard’ provides following benefits to user:
4.a) Language Selection on hardware for Devanagari keying in: The preprocessor transforms the standard keyboard to a multilingual keyboard suitable for Devanagari Keying in ; generates standard Unicode
compliant output that can be directly passed on to any Unicode compliant word processing application, like Word pad/ Word.
There is no need for any software installation. The user selects the Language on Keyboard through ‘ language select button options’ . There is no dependency on language display and special setting through
Taskbar/ complex short cut key options/ Language settings / Keyboard selection and the like.
4.b) The Pre-processor makes a QWERTY map change to a new virtually changed Devanagari Varnamaala character sequence with easy features to follow, form gunita and samyukta units easily following the
‘uccharana’ = a voiced sequence in true phonetic mode.
4.c) The hardware continue to serve as a standard QWERTY keyboard SB connect in standby mode, when ‘ language select –special mode is not opted for.
4.d) The special feature is ‘ Reverse Romanization, Reverse Transliteration’ which delivers ‘ Type English / Roman alphabet Characters with diacritic marks as provided in standards , Through keying in Devanagari Characters. Type अ आ इ ई and get the output as a ā i ī .
Please contact off line for more details, if this appeals to you and seems a ‘ No Soft ware installation needed’ solution to keep English QWERTY Keybaord and yet Key in Devanagari Samskruth letters Truly phonetically and generate Unicode compliant word processing document.
Regards
BVK Sastry
------------------------------
Thanks,
Shashi
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G S S Murthy
Shashi Joshi
Thanks,
Shashi
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Dr.BVK Sastry(G-MAIL)
Namaste Shashi Joshi ji
1. You are welcome to see and evaluate the ‘ keyboard solution’ - the new product that has been brought out and under ‘ trial test before launch’.
Lot more development has been completed. Currently I am at Bangalore. You are welcome to visit again and see feel and test hands on the new hardware product which addresses all concerns you have raised Namely
(A) to meet the needs of < those who are not using English keyboard, a solution should be found that doesn't force them to learn English keyboard. > and
(B) provide equal comfort at Hardware level for those < who are using computers> and < do know English> and < comfortably type many Indian Languages > and
(C ) The Samskrth / Indic language beginners with digital devices , who need not be forced to learn ‘aAbBcCdD ‘ first before ‘अआइई’.
2. Regarding Google Input Tools and its convenience, Yes, there is good advantage and the product has been serving the need of ‘ many users already knowing English and Devanagari. ( Or those who rely on the Google engine efficiency for Transliteration at Browser level, and Unicode compliance! I am working at the level of ‘ Primary Character editor / Word pad which is critically needed as a basic editor of Unicode multilingual characters. Right now we are operating under the cool shade of Microsoft Word options. This may not lost long or is already lined up to come at a cost to the user. So it is prudent to have localization of Digital devices in a mode that meets the needs of Indian language users without forcing them to learn English Keyboard.
Regards
BVK Sastry
From:
bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Shashi Joshi
Sent: Sunday, 24 December, 2017 12:04 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Devanagari QWERTY
on MAC OS
Sastry ji,
Thank you elaborating the topic for the benefit of all. I have met you at your home in Bangalore and am aware of your wonderful work.
I had already clarified in my mail that for those who are not using English keyboard, a solution should be found that doesn't force them to learn English keyboard.
Here is the last part of my email:
"So as far as a quick solution for typing devanagari on a regular English keyboard goes, I strongly recommend google input tools. If one is not going to use English keyboard and is used to Hindi typewriter or some other layout, then it is a different story. Then we sure need better solutions."
But most folks who are using computers do know English. And being able to type not just Devanagri, but most Indian scripts using the same keyboard does give some ease of use.
As long as we are using a keyboard, any, the script part is dying just a bit.
Google Input tools does provide a very easy and quick solution to typing in most Indic scripts.
That is all I am saying.
I am not saying this is the only solution and must be the only solution.
But there is large body of internet users who do find it useful.
Thanks,
Shashi
On Dec 24, 2017 1:33 AM, "Dr.BVK Sastry(G-MAIL)" <sastr...@gmail.com> wrote:
Namaste Shashi Joshi
My responses are indented and placed below. The mute question here to ponder is:
^^^^^^^^^^^
1. BVK Sastry ( on ) :
------------------------------
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