Shlok Purti

[Dr.D.G.Vedia]

Please furnish me with remaining portion of the verse.

 

Yojakah tatra durlabhah....

--
Thanks & Regards,

Dr.D.G.Vedia

[Hnbhat B.R.]

अमंत्रमक्षरं नास्ति नास्ति मूलमनौषधम् । 

अयोग्यः पुरुषो नास्ति योजकस्तत्र दुर्लभः॥ 

A good English annotation is here:

योजकस्तत्र दुर्लभः ll

With regards

--
Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R. M.A., Ph.D.,
Research Scholar,

Ecole française d'Extrême-OrientCentre de Pondichéry

16 & 19, Rue Dumas

Pondichéry - 605 001

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Amantram aksharam nasti,Nasti mulam na aushadham;
Ayogyah purusho nasti,Yojakah tatra durlabhah

अमंत्रमक्षरं नास्ति वनस्पतिरनौषधम् ।

अयोग्यः पुरुषो नास्ति योजकस्तत्र दुर्लभः ॥

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 6:32 PM, Dr.D.G.Vedia <d.g....@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Ajit Gargeshwari]

अमंत्रमक्षरं नास्ति नास्ति मूलमनौषधम्‌ ।

अयोग्यः पुरुषो नास्ति योजकस्तत्र दुर्लभः॥

amantramakSharaM nAsti, nAsti moolamanauShdhaM |
ayogyaH puruSho nAsti, yojakastatra durlabhaH ||

Please see this link

http://sanskritpearls.blogspot.in/2010/01/january-11th.html

Amantram aksharam nasti,Nasti mulam na aushadham;

Ayogyah purusho nasti,Yojakah tatra durlabhah:

Meaning :
There is no letter in the scriipt that is not a mantra, a chanting, a principle; what we need is a Pandit, a scholar to pronounce it. There is no root / plant without medicinal value; what we need is a doctor to diagnose it. There is none in this world who is ineligible, inefficient, ineffective; what we need is a MANAGER who manifests it. We therefore approach the young minds with firm belief within that they are ayogyah nasti. The entire curriculum, the pedagogy, the activities and the events, the projects and the programmes, the resources and its recurrences are all designed and devoted in this Department of Business Administration and Research of Shri Sant Gajanan Maharaj College of Engineering, Shegaon to manifest their innate and infinite potential. The department endeavors to emit desired behavior (ASK) in its inmates for shaping their Attitude, enhancing their Skill and building Knowledge by inculcating in them the culture of Ask, Seek and Knock (ASK).

Please also see this book extract

http://tinyurl.com/6mvyqgg

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 9:48 PM, kuldeep kumar <kuldee...@gmail.com> wrote:

Respected scholars

Though these are good readings,I am acquainted with rather different reading communicating the almost meaning with exera stress on the point involved here i.e. for a wise man everything is useful.The reading is as follows:

naamantramaksharam kincit naasti moolamanaushadham

naayogyah purushah kascit yojakastatra durlabhah

The philosophy of management and wisdom is so beautifully presented in this verse.

Thanking all scholars

Dr. Kuldeep Kumar

Guest Faculty

Special Centre for Sanskrit Studies

JNU, New Delhi 

2012/5/15 Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com>

--
K. Kumar

[Dr. Yadu Moharir]

Namaskar Scholars:

Can some one elaborate the meaning of term "मंत्रमक्षरं"

Is this not trying to suggest and convey that meaning is more important than the mechanical recitation of mantra ?

tajjapastadarthabhaavanam.h .. 28..

and

nmatraH mananaata   !?

Please enlighten.

Thank you all is advance,

Best regards,

Dr. Yadu

---

From: Hnbhat B.R. <hnbh...@gmail.com>
To: d.g....@gmail.com
Cc: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Shlok Purti

[Hnbhat B.R.]

On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 6:39 AM, Dr. Yadu Moharir <ymoh...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Namaskar Scholars:

Can some one elaborate the meaning of term "मंत्रमक्षरं"

Is this not trying to suggest and convey that meaning is more important than the mechanical recitation of mantra ?

tajjapastadarthabhaavanam.h .. 28..

and

nmatraH mananaata   !?

Please enlighten.

No idea. a-mantram akṣaraṃ nāsti - 

The idea is plain in the line. There is no akṣara that cannot be used as a mantra.

Futher oner can elaborate either mantra or  akṣara or even a independently with different concepts from different sources independently on these terms, but the idea of this is clear. The management of resources (whether it be human, or natural) is important to get the most advantage and this is the purpose of this verse as is emphasized in the fourth paada.

[Hnbhat B.R.]

On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Dr. Yadu Moharir <ymoh...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Respected Prof Bhat,

 

I was trying to probe the concept of eternal knowledge as professed in pata!~najala yoga suutra that may be hidden in the  meaning of  mantra "na ksharati iti and artho vaacaah puShpa phalam " 

 

Any thoughts would be highly appreciated,

 

Best Regards

 

Yadunath

 

The sUtra is trying to say about प्रणव as suggested by Narasimhacarya and it says about meditating on ईश्वर who is the referent of प्रणव - by सूत्र you quoted.

य़्S_१.२८(३३)   तज्जपस्तदर्थभावनम्.

               भाष्य १.२८(३३        प्रणवस्य जपः = प्रणवाभिधेयस्य, च .ईश्वरस्य भावनम् [अभिधा]

It is specific on the annotation of "ईश्वरपणिधानाद् वा" the meditation on ईश्वर as one of the means to चित्तवृत्तिनिरोध. 

It is beyond the focus of the सुभाषित cited as I can think of it. And its emphasis is only the identifying any syllable for the purpose of मन्त्रसिद्धि to be utilized as a "mantra" of any syllable and not limited to the syllable of ऊँ which is the focus of the above quoted सूत्र of पतञ्जलि as the भाष्य on it makes it clear. Both have focus point independent of each other as I can see.

-- 

[Hnbhat B.R.]

I was trying to probe the concept of eternal knowledge as professed in pata!~najala yoga suutra that may be hidden in the  meaning of  mantra "na ksharati iti and artho vaacaah puShpa phalam " 

 

As for 

शब्दज्ञानानुपाती वस्तुशून्यो विकल्पः ॥९॥ 

व्यासभाष्यम् 
स न प्रमाणोपारोही न विपर्ययोपारोही च । वस्तुशून्यत्वेऽपि शब्दज्ञानमहात्म्यनिबन्धनो व्यवहारो दृश्यते । तद्यथा – चैतन्यं पुरुषस्य स्वरूपमिति । 

 

This is the position of शब्द according to Yoga philosophy. Only one ईश्वर is made the tool for practicing target for चित्तवृत्तिनिरोध and it is not concerned with whether ईश्वर exists or not. ईश्वर is पुरुषविशेष one of the पुरुष-s considered as the completely perfect पुरुष ever free from क्लेश-कर्म-विपाक- and आशय distingished by these features and the source of unlimited knowledge as you put it eternal knowledge. This is the difference from its allied सांख्य along with other minor distinguishing features. So the सूत्र is confined to the practice of ईश्वरप्रणिधान by the जप = contemplating on the meaning of प्रणव, referred to in the previous सूत्र - तस्य वाचकः प्रणवः, तज्जपस्तर्थभावनम् is the annotation of the method of ईश्वरप्रणिधान. 

And for the explanations like गायन्तं त्रायते इति गायत्री, मननात् त्रायते इति मन्त्रः etc. these are not supported by etymology strictly based on grammar. The word मन्त्र itself is derived from the verb मत्रि परिभाषणे - मन्त्र्यते इति मन्त्रः - that can be recited or muttered as in जप is called.  अतो मन्त्रब्राह्मणयोः वेदनामधेयमितिवचनाच्च तावत्समुदायात्मकग्रन्थवृत्ति वेदत्वमित्यर्थः । । 

- 

[Gmail Team]

May 17, 2012

 

Dear Dr. H.N.Bhat,

 

Thanks for explaining Mantra. I have a couple of simple questions. Please help. Could any single syllable be used as Mantra for japa?  Could meaningless syllable be used by the reciter? People using languages other than Sanskrit could they use syllable from their language for jap? Some other religions do not have concept of PraNava. But they have some kind of god in their religion. So they cannot use PraNava to concentrate. Is their special place for Mantras composed in Sanskrit only? or will Mantra in any language produce the desired effect?

 

Prof Korada mentioned about Mantra for reducing effect of poison of snake bite in his recent posting. Does such Mantra produce effect due to its special combination of syllables or is it due to power of the individual using the Mantra? Tantras talk about spells (Mantras like rhAm, rhIm,klIm etc) for jAraNa, MAraNa, Stambhana, VashIkaraNa etc. If they work then could I say that they work without referring to the God? Because God cannot be part of such bad karmas. Thanks. N.R.Joshi.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Hnbhat B.R." <hnbh...@gmail.com>
To: "Dr. Yadu Moharir" <ymoh...@yahoo.com>, bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Shlok Purti

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[Hnbhat B.R.]

On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 1:49 AM, Gmail Team <gira...@juno.com> wrote:

May 17, 2012

 

Dear Dr. H.N.Bhat,

 

Thanks for explaining Mantra. I have a couple of simple questions. Please help.

Thank you for writing me personally. I think I am not competent to answer all of your questions. Hence forwarding your message to the group for further analysis of your questions with my attempt to reply them within my limits.

 

Could any single syllable be used as Mantra for japa? 

That is what the verse raised for for the topic of this thread says: 

अमन्त्रमक्षरं नास्ति a-mantram akṣaraṃ nāsti  - which obviously states that there is not any syllable that is not (used as) a mantra.

 

Could meaningless syllable be used by the reciter? People using languages other than Sanskrit could they use syllable from their language for jap? Some other religions do not have concept of PraNava. But they have some kind of god in their religion. So they cannot use PraNava to concentrate. Is their special place for Mantras composed in Sanskrit only? or will Mantra in any language produce the desired effect?

 

 This question has to be dealt with a different stand point of view as it is not within the scope of the शास्त्र-s which justify the above statement in general, but the question is raised from a trans-cultural and trans-language point of view. Hence it could not be answered shortly yes or now straight forward. But this is an attempt to answer your questions free from the limits of शास्त्र-s and each शास्त्र-s have their own register of language Sanskrit. They are valid within their registers and not universal even within the Sanskrit Language. How can their meaning could be taken to be applicable to the concepts of another culture and another language? This is a way of pointing out your question to have a clear focus.

 As for the topic in question, and the statement in it as made clear in my reply to your first question, it falls within the scope of mantraśāstra and the statement cannot be expected to be valid within another register of Sanskrit language, for example मीमांसा. According to मीमांसा, Prof.Korada has made his position clear in his statements about the success of the rites prescribed in the Veda-s.

मन्त्रे तीर्थे द्विजे देवे दैवज्ञे भेषजे गुरौ ।
यादृशी भावना यस्य सिद्धिर्भवति तादृशी ॥

This is within the bounds of मन्त्र or मन्त्रशास्त्र or तन्त्र as the above statement makes it clear, the success is dependent on your attitude or aptitude towards it, which can roughly be equated with faith, belief, religion etc. which are their own cultural content within English language, while भावना has got the same meaning as explained in the योगसूत्र Prof, Yadu Mohineer has quoted and explained in it tajjapas tadarthabhāvanam - contemplation on the referent of the प्रणव (in the case of YogsUtra in question). This is the basis of the statement of Prof. Korada referred to by you in your question below which is within the scope of मन्त्रशास्त्र.

Prof Korada mentioned about Mantra for reducing effect of poison of snake bite in his recent posting. Does such Mantra produce effect due to its special combination of syllables or is it due to power of the individual using the Mantra? Tantras talk about spells (Mantras like rhAm, rhIm,klIm etc) for jAraNa, MAraNa, Stambhana, VashIkaraNa etc.

Hope this has already been answered in short in my reply to your previous question. The same quotation answers your question.

 

If they work then could I say that they work without referring to the God? Because God cannot be part of such bad karmas.

Now your question differs from the concept of previous one in that much that God is an English or probably originated from some PIE - 

God O.E. god "supreme being, deity; the Christian God; image of a god; godlike person," from P.Gmc. *guthan (cf. O.S., O.Fris., Du. god, O.H.G. got, Ger. Gott, O.N. guð,Goth. guþ), from PIE *ghut- "that which is invoked" (cf. O.C.S. zovo "to call," Skt. huta- "invoked," an epithet of Indra), from root *gheu(e)- "to call, invoke." But some trace it to PIE *ghu-to- "poured," from root *gheu- "to pour, pour a libation" (source of Gk. khein "to pour," also in the phrase khute gaia "poured earth," referring to a burial mound; see found (2)). "Given the Greek facts, the Germanic form may have referred in the first instance to the spirit immanent in a burial mound" [Watkins]. Cf. also Zeus. 

 

So it has different connotations in different language as the Etymological dictionary entry gives. While the concept of इश्वर is different in different शास्त्र-s according to their view propounded relating to ईश्वर within Sanskrit Language itself, though the word God originated from PIE can roughly translate the idea. Thus, मीमांसा theory holds the rites independent of God, yields fruit due to the अदृष्ट which is the fore-runner of Karma theory. Each of Six Darshana-s have different views about the concept of इश्वर and thus मीमांसा is called sometimes नास्तिक not accepting God along with सांख्य, and न्याय (though later it accepts along with वैशेषिक the concept of ईश्वर from its parellel).  This has been detailed in every study about Indian Pilosophy and beyond the scope of this message box.

Now you can reconsider your proposal and you will find different answers from each of the Darshana-s and शास्त्र-s. 

The point referred to in my message was to the concept of ईश्वर within योगशास्त्र and which is not even considered as existent in its pair साङ्ख्य as both do not consider शब्द as a valid means of knowledge. Even दृष्ट and अदृष्ट one of them अदृष्ट is taken up by मीमांसा also and to refer to धर्म and अधर्म good and bad deeds by न्याय philosophy. Within

Now according to those who accept ईश्वर, as the inspiration for each acts, good and bad, he inspires them according to their accumulated कर्म वासना क्लेश (different terminology used in different contexts) and is not directly responsible for their results. This is the reply to your question following the theory of कर्म and taking the ईश्वर as the mediator between the karma-s and their results done by each person. Now without his mediation, मीमांसा credits the अद्ष्ट responsible for the results. Now, coming to मन्त्रशास्त्र and तन्त्रशास्त्र, each मन्त्र has its own देवता different from the concept of ईश्वर or western concept of God, and it is the responsibility of the concerned देवता to yield the result according to the successful completion of the required rite. Hence God or ईश्वर is not directly responsible as you have proposed. 

So it follows that any "mantra" will have its own meaning within/without the scope of the register of Veda, or मन्त्रशास्त्र. There are two views prevalent in respect of the knowledge of the meaning of mantra-s. Those who defend the knowledge of the mantra-s used for any rite, within the limits of the शास्त्र, whether it be मन्त्रशास्त्र or मीमांसाशास्त्र, swear the knowledge is necessary to yield the fruit>

"यदधीतमविज्ञातं निगदेनैव शब्द्यते । 

अनग्नाविव शुष्कैधो न तज्ज्वलति कर्हिचित् ।।" इति 

in respect of Veda-s, and in मन्त्रशास्त्र also:

मन्त्रार्थं मन्त्रचैतन्यं यो न जानाति साधकः । 

शतलक्षप्रजप्तोऽपि तस्य मन्त्रो न सिद्ध्यति ।।

the knowledge of meaning of the mantra-s are mandatory for the success सिद्धि of the mantra.

Now within a general view, free from the above concept, just भावना is important, and सिद्धि will be mandatory on completion of the required repetitions both in the case of सिद्धमन्त्र and साध्यमन्त्र also. सिद्धमन्त्र-s are to yield results immediately on their recitation and साध्य-mantra- need the completion of the procedure for their सिद्धि. They are inherent in the syllables and whether the does know the meaning or not, it should be practiced with dedication to yield fruit desired, just like the fire, whether knowingly or unknowingly, touched will burn with which it comes to contact. Only it need to be kindled with fuel and it will burn anything if fired against or made use for one's own purpose. The phase 

अग्निमीडे would mean the same even if it is  recited ईडे अग्निम्, but the order अग्निमीडे makes it मन्त्र and recitation willl yield the fruit of वेदाध्ययन. This is another view. This has been explained in मन्त्रब्राह्मणयोर्वेदनामधेयम् by which वेद is confined to the order of the text aas earlier cited in my previous message.

१,१५         यदि मन्त्र अर्थ प्रत्ययाय अनर्थकम् भवति इति कौत्सो अनर्थका हि मन्त्राः|

१,१५         तद् एतेन उपेक्षितव्यम् नियत वाचो युक्तयो नियत आनुपूर्व्या भवन्ति

The above quotation is from निरुक्त, which Yaska rejects the above view later. 

The Puranic episodes cite the story of Ajamila, even if he called his son by his name, Hari even without meaning it the lord विष्णु he was taken to वैकुण्ठ. The concept is emphasizing on the faith than intellectual content.

Whether all the mantra-s whether they consist of sentences, words or syllables have the meaning is a different question. Even हुम्, फट् will have their meaning, just like the interjections in English or any language, to express one's feelings, like contempt, pleasure etc.Whether by denotation they convey the meaning or just accidental is another question. And knowledge of them is another question as discussed above.

Hope this much is clear. Further explanations are expected from the scholars specialized in different शास्त्र-s. 

Sorry for the lengthy message. 

--

[sadasivamurty rani]

Prof. NRJoshi ji, As Mantra Sastra is one of my areas of interest I too would like to share my views with you all.  I have seen certain questions in your mail. I shall try to answer them with my limited knowledge in the field. Your question no.1. Could any single syllable be used as Mantra for japa? My reply: Yes, there are even monosyllabic mantras in Mantra Sastra. So such single sylllable Mantras also can be used for Japa in a prescribed manner in the Tantras. Here I would like to support this with some more information. According to Mantra sastra the non-vedic (particular the mantras in Tantras and Agamas) are of three types: 1. Bija Mantras 2. Mala Mantras 3. Sloka Mantras. I. As far as Bija mantras are again of two types: 1. Suddha Bija Mantras 2. Bija + Some Desire specifying Viseshana Dalas+Deity's Name(in Dative case mostly) +one of the six Mantra pallavas Of these two types the Suddha Bija mantras are constituted even with single syllable. There a good number of Mantras of that kind found in the Mantra Sastra. The second type of Bija Mantras are extended to a good length with the structure specified above.  II. Mala Mantras: These Mala mantras are Chaplet like Mantras. These are in lengthy prose style. Sometimes do not have Bija components in them.  Sometimes they have Bija components also.  These Mala mantras still longer than the SECOND TYPE of BIJA MANTRAS. III. The Mantras in Sloka form: These are third type of Mantras composed in Sanskrit in metrical style mostly in Anustubh metre.  These Mantras also are equally effective when recited in a prescribed procedure. Your Question no. 2 Could meaningless syllable be used by the reciter? According to Mantra Sastra no single syllable is meaningless.  There are nearly 52 ekakshara kosas relied upon in the Mantra Sastra Nighantu. IN this context I would like to remind you..Once we had a detailed discussion on the importance of Ekakshara Nighantus.  Some of the scholars provided us the sources of such Ekakshara Nighantus. So I reiterate that no single syllable is meaningless. So every mantra irrespective of its length and nature will be useful for the reciter and can be recited by the reciter. YOur Question No. 3.People using languages other than Sanskrit could they use syllable from their language for jap? Among the three types of mantras, in the second type of mantras i.e. Mala mantras many other language syllables and even phrases can be used.  We often come across such mantras.  I have seen many mantras in Mani pravala style.  Those mantras consist of both Sanskrit phrases and other language phrases also.  I have seen some Mala mantras with Marathi phrases, Malayalam phrase, Konkan phrases, Oriya phrases and some phrases of unknown tribal languages also..  So those mantras also can be used for practical recitation purpose.  Your question no. 4 Is their special place for Mantras composed in Sanskrit only? or will Mantra in any language produce the desired effect? In the Mantra Sastra again the mantras are categorized into two as : Maha Mantras and Kshudra Mantras. Mahamantras are those a) which are composed in Sanskrit, b) Which aim at the self realization or salvation  as the ultimate object of Japa c) The mantras which have been accepted through a long tradition d) The mantras which help for achieving ultimate social good. Kshudra Mantras are those a) which are tiny in size composed either in Sanskrit or in regional languages or in both, b) Which aim at Artha or Kama or revenge taking as the object of Japa c) which are meant for fulfilling exclusive individual baser instincts d) Even without having any traditional acceptance which can directly composed by Sadhakas of advanced stage for meeting some temporary purposes e) IN some cases Maraka mantras. YES: ALL THESE MANTRAS WILL GIVE DUE RESULT AS PRESCRIBED IN THE SASTRA PROVIDED MEDITATED UP ON IN THE PRESCRIBED PROCESS.  Here one thing is to be kept in mind.  The results of the Mantra Sastra is not universally same is in case of physical sciences or other modern positive sciences.  The results vary from person to person depending on the intensity of the Sadhakas' practice and concentration power of their minds. Your last chain of questions: Does such Mantra produce effect due to its special combination of syllables or is it due to power of the individual using the Mantra? Tantras talk about spells (Mantras like rhAm, rhIm,klIm etc) for jAraNa, MAraNa, Stambhana, VashIkaraNa etc. If they work then could I say that they work without referring to the God? According to Mantra Sastra a MANTRA is not merely a means to invoke or please a GODDESS or GOD.  A MANTRA is the very subtle syllabic  form of  the GOD or GODDESS.  In the Mantra Sastra the Upasya Daivam has three forms: a) Anthropomorphic form b) Yantra form and c) Mantra form .  Depending on the levels of Sadhakas they prefer the respective form as the object of their Dhyana. Yantra form is subtler than Anthropomorphic and Mantra is the subtlest of the three. (यां देवतामुद्दिश्य यो मन्त्रो विहित: स: मन्त्र: तस्या: देवताया: सूक्ष्मतमरूपमेव) This is a common principle in the Mantra Sastra. So  no such state can be found without referring to any GOD or GODDESS while reciting those Mantras. Similarly while performing Mantra japa the minimum procedure is : मन: संहृत्य विषयात् मन्त्रार्थगतमानस:। न द्रुतं न विलम्बं च जपेत् मौक्तिकपंक्तिवत्॥ To sum up this attempt: Mantras have Power. All Mantras are naturally Divine. Mantras can be of any length.. Mantras can be new or old.  Mantras will be fruitful only when recited by the performer in the prescribed procedure. Mantras even give evil results by the favor the GOD or GODDESS worshiped. ये यथा मं प्रपद्यन्ते तांस्तथैव भजाम्यहम् is the pratijna of the GOD or GODDESS.  So if we Sadhaka prays to the GOD with Sattvik attitude the result is Sattvic. If the Sadhaka has Rajasic intentions the results are Rajasic.. If the Sadhaka is Tamasic the result is destructive. With these conclusions here I give a pause to my thoughts. With regards, Dr. Rani Sadasiva Murty --- On Fri, 18/5/12, Gmail Team <gira...@juno.com> wrote: