Hyderabad Amarakosha

[Mārcis Gasūns]

Namaste,

 What am I doing wrong at http://sanskrit.uohyd.ac.in/scl/amarakosha/frame.html when I get "Could not find गनेश in the Amarakosha"? 'all relations' gives a blank screen.

M.G.

[G S S Murthy]

Yes. Looks like he has gone mouse-riding!

Murthy

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My web site : http://murthygss.tripod.com/index.htm
and also my Sanskrit blog :

http://simplesanskrit.blogspot.com/

http://gssmurthy.blogspot.com

[shankara]

Namaste,

Amarakosa Index also does not show गणेश. One has to search only those words that are in the Amarakosa.

regards
shankara

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[Narasimhan Subbaraman]

The word गणेशः is not found in Amarakosha.  The following pratyayaas are there - विनायको विघ्नराजद्वैमातुरगणाधिपाः अप्येकदन्तहेरंबलम्बोदरगजाननाः

On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 2:33 PM, 'shankara' via भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत् <bvpar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Namaste,

Amarakosa Index also does not show गणेश. One has to search only those words that are in the Amarakosa.

regards
shankara

On Saturday 28 October 2017, 12:05:32 PM IST, Mārcis Gasūns <gas...@gmail.com> wrote:

Namaste,

 What am I doing wrong at http://sanskrit.uohyd.ac.in/scl/amarakosha/frame.html when I get "Could not find गनेश in the Amarakosha"? 'all relations' gives a blank screen.

M.G.

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[ajit.gargeshwari]

The word गणेश is not listed in Amarakosha and I don't know about the word गनेश  which you are searching for.
Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari

[Mārcis Gasūns]

On Sunday, 29 October 2017 18:25:08 UTC+3, ajit.gargeshwari wrote:

The word गणेश is not listed in Amarakosha and I don't know about the word गनेश  which you are searching for.

At http://www.payer.de/amarakosa/amara101.htm Gaṇeśa is there, that's why I wondered - but it's only for index purposes, now I understand. So if I do not know that विनायकोis gaReSa, I will not find him, right? I wish the UI would be as smart as http://sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/awork/apidev/simple-search/v1.0/list-0.2s.html "simple" is - if you enter "ganesa", you get 2 results:

gaṇeśa gāṇeśa 

[S. L. Abhyankar]

Dear Mr. Marcis,

The link given by you to "amara101"-html page seems to be a German interpretation of the अमरकोश. An interpretation will always have the bias of the interpreter. Hence we need to be cautious about treating any interpretation to be the only interpretation or the final word. Your query about the word गणेश being in the original text of अमरकोश itself is good. So one needs to search the original text of अमरकोश only, not in any interpretation of अमरकोश.

The problem with अमरकोश would be that it cannot be expected to list all the names of all deities. For example, there is विष्णुसहस्रनामस्तोत्रम् where one gets 1000 names of Lord Vishnu. Can one expect अमरकोश to give all those 1000 names ? Likewise there is महागणपतिस्तोत्रम् excerpted from नारदपुराणम्, wherein we have at least twelve names of Lord Ganesh.

The fact of the matter also is that most of the names of deities are adjectival. Adjectives tend to become names by ardent association. गणेश has become name of गणपति the elephant-headed deity. As such there is no difference in the meanings of the two words गणेश and गणपति also. Even the other well-known name विनायक is also adjectival only (विशेषः नायकः इति विनायकः) one, who is special among leaders. Can we not grant that Alexander the Great was also विनायकः ?

My humble submission would be that let us take अमरकोश to be what it is, not attaching too much of expectations, which may often prove to be extraneous. 

[Mārcis Gasūns]

So good to see such a detailed comment, so good.

On Monday, 30 October 2017 09:57:57 UTC+3, अभ्यंकरकुलोत्पन्नः श्रीपादः | wrote:

The link given by you to "amara101"-html page seems to be a German interpretation of the अमरकोश.

Indeed, but I have not seen anything similar in any other language. With detailed etymologies and illustrations.

 

An interpretation will always have the bias of the interpreter. Hence we need to be cautious about treating any interpretation to be the only interpretation or the final word.

Yes.

 

Your query about the word गणेश being in the original text of अमरकोश itself is good.

I mean it was a surprise for me. So that means that without an Index I could never locate the right place, that's important.

 

So one needs to search the original text of अमरकोश only, not in any interpretation of अमरकोश.

The problem with अमरकोश would be that it cannot be expected to list all the names of all deities. For example, there is विष्णुसहस्रनामस्तोत्रम् where one gets 1000 names of Lord Vishnu.

Yes, I'm working on a Russian commented edition of the list of names.

 

Can one expect अमरकोश to give all those 1000 names ?

Sure, can not.

 

Likewise there is महागणपतिस्तोत्रम् excerpted from नारदपुराणम्, wherein we have at least twelve names of Lord Ganesh.

You answered my unasked question - where do the 12 names instead of 8 come from, thanks!

 

The fact of the matter also is that most of the names of deities are adjectival.

Right.

 

Adjectives tend to become names by ardent association. गणेश has become name of गणपति the elephant-headed deity.

So you think  गणपति was the 1st one?

 

As such there is no difference in the meanings of the two words गणेश and गणपति also. Even the other well-known name विनायक is also adjectival only (विशेषः नायकः इति विनायकः) one, who is special among leaders.

 विशेषः नायकः इति विनायकः is just another interpretation. How do we know that वि stands for विशेषः?

 

Can we not grant that Alexander the Great was also विनायकः ?

No, he was a chakravartin :)

 

My humble submission would be that let us take अमरकोश to be what it is, not attaching too much of expectations, which may often prove to be extraneous. 

Yes, yes, but let me try to understand the principles it is built on. Like I do not understand the meta structure of SKD.

Sincerely,

Marcis

 

[Amba Kulkarni]

Hello Marcis,

I think by now you got the explanation.

-- Amba

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Fellow,
Indian Institute of Advanced Study,
Shimla


आ नो भद्रा: क्रतवो यन्तु विश्वत: ll
Let noble thoughts come to us from every side.
- Rig Veda, I-89-i.
Prof. (On leave)
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University of Hyderabad

Prof. C.R. Rao Road 

Hyderabad-500 046

(91) 040 23133802(off)

http://sanskrit.uohyd.ac.in/scl
http://sanskrit.uohyd.ac.in/faculty/amba

[Mārcis Gasūns]

Hello Amba,

On Monday, 30 October 2017 17:00:45 UTC+3, ambapradeep wrote:

I think by now you got the explanation.

Not exactly, but sure a lot I understood. The links on the page to .pdfs are not working.

So there is no additional markup as of who is the object of description, right? Thanks.

And last thing, a possible improvement in the search UI https://github.com/sanskrit-lexicon/Cologne/issues/156

[G S S Murthy]

Regarding vinaayaka, the word also denotes a malevolent spirit.

"VinayakaaSca shaamyanti." Valmiki Ramayana

Regards,

Murthy

--

[Hnbhat B.R.]

विनायक is synonym of Buddha

( १. १. २७) षडभिज्ञो दशबलोऽद्वयवादी विनायकः| 

[S. L. Abhyankar]

Dear Mr. Marcis,

Mr. GSS Murthy and Dr. H. N. Bhat have given more explanation about विनायकः You also have inquired whether the prefix वि in विनायकः stands only for विशेषः. It does not stand only for विशेषः. It has many interpretations. As detailed in my post उपसर्गवृत्तिः the prefix वि has many many interpretations as summarized in a phrase नानार्थवियोगातिशयभयदूरार्थभृथार्थकलहैश्वर्यमोहपौशून्योत्कर्षकुत्सनेषदर्थानाभिमुख्यानवस्थानाप्राधान्यदर्शनशौर्येषु One has to take the interpretation, which fits the context.

Since you seem to be also interested in etymology, may I add that विनायकः has in it धातुः वि+नी where meaning of नी is given as णी॒ञ् प्राप॑णे (= To arrive at, to carry unto, to lead) Since Euclid carried the knowledge of geometry to a unprecedented level of understanding, he merits the adoration as विनायकः. 

By the way, the स्तोत्रम् giving twelve names of गणेश / गणपति goes like this => प्रणम्य शिरसा देवं गौरीपुत्रं विनायकम् / भक्तावासं स्मरेन्नित्यम् आयुःकामार्थसिद्धये / प्रथमं वक्रतुण्डं च / एकदन्तं द्वितीयकम् / तृतीयं कृष्णपिङ्गाक्षम् / गजवक्त्रं चतुर्थकम् / लंबोदरं पञ्चमं च षष्ठं विकटमेव च / सप्तमं विघ्नराजेन्द्रम् / धूम्रवर्णं तथाष्टकम् / नवमं भालचन्द्रं च दशमं तु विनायकम् / एकादशं गणपतिं द्वादशं तु गजाननम् // As can be seen, in this स्तोत्रम् also, there is no गणेश. But गणपति is there, the eleventh. As such there is no difference in the meanings of गजवक्त्र the fourth and गजानन the twelfth. Also, although the twelve names start at प्रथमं वक्रतुण्डं there is गौरीपुत्र along with विनायक before the first. 

Since all names are adjectival, between गणेश and गणपति, one need not rank which one is first and which one second. Even in this स्तोत्रम्, although it seems to give first rank to वक्रतुण्ड, all the names are eulogies. Their order is only of the sequence in which they occurred to the poet. Maybe, if you compose an eulogy, you will get a different order, maybe with newer adjectives ! There is another popular ode to Ganesha => वक्रतुण्ड महाकाय सूर्यकोटिसमप्रभ / निर्विघ्नं कुरु मे देव सर्वकार्येषु सर्वदा // The words निर्विघ्नं कुरु bring to mind that Ganesha is also called as विघ्नहर्ता. 

I can go on elaborating. Let me stop here.

[Dr. Yadu Moharir]

Namaste Prof. Abhyankar

There is one more important etymology from puraaNaa's that cannot be ignored.

nāyakena vinā devi tava bhūtopi putrakaḥ ॥
yasmāja jātasa tato nāmnā bhaviṣyati vināyakaḥ ॥vamana purāṇ 28.71-72

vinā kṛtā nāyakena yat tvaṃ devi mayā śubhe ।
eṣa tatra samutpannas tava putro rkasamnibhaḥ ॥
nāyakena vinā jāto yasmād eva gajānanaḥ ।
tammad vināyako nāmanā bhaviṣyati sureśvari ॥ skanda purāṇa

Above etymology also conforms the the Gaṇeśā's name from aṣṭottaraśata nāmāvali "dvayamāturāya"  (having TWO MOTHERS), because he is "ayonijaka" .

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[Achyut Karve]

Dear Scholars,

It is my feeling that this is not a forum to score points.

Sanskrit is a generative language.  To look at it as a language of the day is doing disservice to Sanskrit because today languages create a vast vocabulary by importing words from other languages as they do not have a mechanism of generating  new words.  But to be capable of generating new words in Sanskrit one not only needs to have a good grip over Sanskrit grammar but also an aesthetic ear so that one is capable of distinguishing between a word (शब्द) and a non word (अपशब्द).

The question is not whether गणेश appears in the Amarkosha or not but whether it is a well formed word or not and whether it conveys the intended sense or not.

With regards,
Achyut Karve.

--

[Achyut Karve]

Dear Scholars,

Patanjali in his Mahabhashya says that as it is not possible to list all the words (chaste) of a language therefore as a remedy this can be achieved by the rules of grammar.

We should also remember that Amarkosha is not a dictionary.  It was a first attempt at a Thesaurus  and that too poetic, so that it can be easily committed to memory.

With regards,
Achyut Karve.

--

[Achyut Karve]

Dear Marcis Gasuns,

The following para I had drafted in response to your previous mail.  The system of interpreting one language by means of another is a flawed one. One will only appreciate the nicities of a language in terms of another when one is proficient in both of them. 

"The attempt to interpret words without the context ie. that of the sentence, through a dictionary is primarily the work of the West and is the main cause for all the doubts.  The West designed this practice in the colonial era for the sake of administration and extended it for literary works.  Thus the system of appreciating Sanskrit in the West is basically flawed.  Patanjali in his first Anhik of the Mahabhashya has explained the purpose  of the Ashtadhyayi in detail."

With regards,
Achyut Karve.

Dear Scholars,

It is my feeling that this is not a forum to score points.

Sanskrit is a generative language.  To look at it as a language of the day is doing disservice to Sanskrit because today languages create a vast vocabulary by importing words from other languages as they do not have a mechanism of generating  new words.  But to be capable of generating new words in Sanskrit one not only needs to have a good grip over Sanskrit grammar but also an aesthetic ear so that one is capable of distinguishing between a word (शब्द) and a non word (अपशब्द).

The question is not whether गणेश appears in the Amarkosha or not but whether it is a well formed word or not and whether it conveys the intended sense or not.

With regards,
Achyut Karve.

Hello Amba,

On Monday, 30 October 2017 17:00:45 UTC+3, ambapradeep wrote:

I think by now you got the explanation.

Not exactly, but sure a lot I understood. The links on the page to .pdfs are not working.
So there is no additional markup as of who is the object of description, right? Thanks.
And last thing, a possible improvement in the search UI https://github.com/sanskrit-lexicon/Cologne/issues/156

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[Hnbhat B.R.]

This discussion seems go fancifully beyond the subject matter of this thread: the omission of the word "ganesa"  in the Hyderabad Edn. of Amarakosa which is a fact that the word गणेश the synonym of the the son of the gods  शम्भु  is missing in the text according to the scheme of Amarasimha and it could not be found on searching in the edition. The answer is clear.

And explained by many.

Then the question to be asked how he found in the annotated text Marcis had used and how the name गणेश was added of his own in the text of Amara as the synonym? Instead the discussion goes on etymologies of other words as they occur and the discussing continues. Karve has already given a answer that Amarkosha is not a dictionary and explained its nature. 
Hence it cannot be expected to contain each and every word like the dictionary.

Sorry I interference among the discussion.

[Dr.BVK Sastry(G-MAIL)]

Namaste

 

1. Nirukti using Prakriyaa is the way to decode and extract meaning from ‘Samskrutham –Padam’  which is defined as ‘Sup-ting antam’ by Panini.

 

2. This is different from the Dictionary usage listing and Thesaurus model of ‘ Dictionary’; In short,  Kosha does not translate to ‘ Dictionary or Thesaurus’!

 

This what Dr. Yadu and Abhyankar , Karve, Joshi  and many others are pointing out  in this discussion.

 

3.  It would be a worth while question to ponder :

 

Do we have / Did WE have any time in the history of SAMSKRUTH STUDIES and USAGE at India,   a concept, Design frame work comparable to  a  ‘  (English language) DICTIONARY FOR SANSKRIT’,  if  it is not/ can not be  backed by  the authority of :

-          VYAKARANA  (Pada Shaastra)-

-          NIRUKTA ( PRAKRIYAA VYUTPATTI – NIRVACHANA)

-           ANVAYA- SAMANVAYA Shaastra ( As KAAVYA – Shaastra / Meemaamsaa – Nyaya Paddhati )?

-          NYAYA as PRAMANA Shaastra ?

 

Without this ‘ Shaastreeyataa’ bearing, What is the pedagogy of ‘ SANSKRIT TEACHING and RESEARCH / TRANSLATION’ ?  Beyond a ‘ Opinionating’  (= matam)  which does not truly bring out the   ‘VIVAKSHITAARTHA – through VYUTPATTI’ ?

 

Thanks in  advance for helping me to get this clarity in the  Sanskrit studies.

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

[Achyut Karve]

Dear Scholars,

The word kosha is used in many Indian languages to mean a dictionary.

What is the sense in which the word Kosha is used in Classical Sanskrit.  What kind of samas is Amarkosha.

Kindly enlighten me.

With regards,
Achyut Karve.

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[S. L. Abhyankar]

अमरकोशः केनापि अमरसिंहेन विरचितः / अतः अमरस्य कोशः इति अमरकोशः / 

आपटे-महाभागानां शब्दकोशे द्वित्रिंशत्तावताः (32) अर्थाः कोश-शब्दस्य =>

कोशः, -शम् (षः, -षम्) [कुश् (ष्) आधारादौ घञ् कर्तरि अच् वा Tv.] 1 A vessel for holding liquids, a pail. -2 A bucket, cup. -3 A vessel in general. -4 A box, cupboard, drawer, trunk; Rv.6.47.23; स एष कोशो वसुधानस्तस्मिन्विश्वमिदं श्रितम् Ch. Up.3.15.1. -5 A sheath, scabbard; Ki.17.45. -6 A case, cover, covering. -7 A store, mass; ईश्वरः सर्वभूतानां धर्मकोशस्य गुप्तये Ms.1.99. -8 A store-room. -9 A treasury, an apartment where money is kept; Ms.8.419. -10 Treasure, money, wealth; निःशेषविश्राणितकोषजातम् R.5.1; (fig. also); कोशस्तपसः K.45; कोशपूर्वाः सर्वारम्भाः Kau. A.2.8. -11 Gold or silver wrought or unwrought. -12 A dictionary, lexicon, vocabulary. -13 A closed flower, bud; सुजातयोः पङ्कजकोशयोः श्रियम् R.3.8,13.29; इत्थं विचिन्तयति कोशगते द्विरेफे हा हन्त हन्त नलिनीं गज उज्जहार Subhāṣ. -14 The stone of a fruit. -15 A pod. -16 A nut-meg, nut-shell. -17 The cocoon of a silk-worm; निजलालासमायोगात्कोशं वा कोशकारकः Y.3.147. -18 Vulva, the womb. -19 An egg. -20 A testicle or the scrotum. -21 The penis. -22 A ball, globe. -23 (In Vedānta phil.) A term for the five (अन्न, प्राण, मनः, विज्ञान, आनन्द) vestures (sheaths or cases) which successively make the body, enshrining the soul. -24 (In law) A kind of ordeal; the defendant drinks thrice of the water after some idol has been washed in it; cf. Y.2.112. -25 A house. -26 A cloud. -27 The interior of a carriage. -28 A kind of bandage or ligature (in surgery). -29 An oath; कोशं चक्रतुरन्योन्यं सखङ्गौ नृपडामरौ Rāj. T.2.326. -30 The pericarp of a lotus. -31 A piece of meat. -32 A cup used in the ratification of a treaty of peace; देवी कोशमपाययत् Rāj. T.7.8,75,459,492. 

अमर-शब्दस्य सामासिकेष्वपि 

-(अमर )कोशः, -षः N. of the most popular Sanskṛit lexicon called after the author अमरसिंह. ˚(अमर)कौमुदी Title of a commentary on अमरकोश.

शब्देति शब्दस्य सामासिकेष्वपि => 

-(शब्द)कोशः a lexicon, dictionary. 

[Achyut Karve]

Dear Abhyankarji,

So by no means it can be called a Sanskrit Dictionary because as the name suggests it is Amarsingh's Dictionary. 

"diction (n.)
1540s, "a word;" 1580s, "expression of ideas in words," from Late Latin dictionem (nominative dictio) "a saying, expression, word," noun of action from dic-, past participle stem of Latin dicere "speak, tell, say" (source of French dire "to say"), related to dicare "proclaim, dedicate," from PIE root *deik- "to show," also "pronounce solemnly."

In the above sense the Amarkosha is a dictionary par excellence.  Thus the intention of  a dictionary need not be to tell the meaning.  In this sense is not the modern usage of the word dictionary itself misplaced.

One can now if he wishes say that Amarsingh either did know the word गणपति or that he did not find it necessary to include it in his कोष.

With regards,
Achyut Karve.

--

[Dr.BVK Sastry(G-MAIL)]

Namaste

 

1. In response to the question by Achyut Karve, the  32  meaning of the term ‘ Kosha’ is presented below.  If we take the listed meaning at 12, is that to be for the exclusion of the rest ? Does AMARAKOSHA match to this translation ?

 

        QUESTION/s:  How  and which of the 32 meanings  of the  term  ‘ Kosha’ translate and map to the concept of  ‘ Lexicon / Dictionary’ ? 

                                    Who started this ‘ Kosha = Dictionary – Lexicon’ equation ?  Is it the most appropriate  or convenient method to  work with  TERMS IN  SAMSKRUTHAM ?

                                    Does ‘Amarsimha declare his intention of compiling  ‘Amara-Kosha’ on the model of a ‘ Lexicon or a Dictionary’ ?

BECAUSE

                                    Every Samskruth Term ( Pada )  needs VYUTPATTI – NIRVACHANA  and ANVAYA to arrive at the ‘  Vivakshita –artha’ /Taatparya .

                                    Does the current Tools -  of  ‘SANSKRIT DICTIONARIES’  PROVIDE  appropriate facilities with  Critical  Information  pl.

 

 

The explanation of what is a LEXICON and DICTIONARY are provided below:

 

LEXICON :    The vocabulary of a person, language, or branch of knowledge.       ‘the size of the English lexicon’

                        Early 17th century: modern Latin, from Greek lexikon (biblion) ‘(book) of words’, from lexis ‘word’, from legein ‘speak’.

 

 

Dictionary:  A book or electronic resource that lists the words of a language (typically in alphabetical order) and gives their meaning, or gives the equivalent words in a different language, often also providing information about pronunciation, origin, and usage.   Early 16th century: from medieval Latin dictionarium (manuale) or dictionarius (liber) ‘manual or book of words’, from Latin dictio (see diction).

 

 

WIKI on Dictionary :     A dictionary, sometimes known as a wordbook, is a collection of words in one or more specific languages, often arranged alphabetically (or by radical and stroke for ideographic languages), which may include information on definitions, usage, etymologies, phonetics, pronunciations, translation, etc.  or a book of words in one language with their equivalents in another, sometimes known as a lexicon. It is a lexicographical product which shows inter-relationships among the data. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictionary

 

I don’t wish   anyone to build a research theory using the ‘ Kosha’- listed  meanings and selective mapping  to explain ‘ Amara-Kosha = Amara’s ( meaning listed at 18 Vulva, the womb. -19 An egg. -20 A testicle or the scrotum. -21 The penis) as a ‘deconstruction of traditional thinking.

 

 Such  line of  scholarly studies using the armor of academic freedom are not figments of imagination, but a reality seen around in some of the provocative writings  on traditional issues and texts.  

 

Thanks  in advance for clarifying the  term ‘ Kosha’ mapped to   ‘ Lexicon /Dictionary’.

 

Regards

BVK Sastry   

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of S. L. Abhyankar
Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2017 11:25 PM
To: Bharatiya Vidvat parishad
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Hyderabad Amarakosha

 

अमरकोशः केनापि अमरसिंहेन विरचितः / अतः अमरस्य कोशः इति अमरकोशः / 

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[Srinivasakrishnan ln]

The Amarakośa is rightfully better represented in English as a 'thesaurus' than as a lexicon.  A 'thesaurus' per the Latin dictionary is a storehouse, repository etc.

http://latin-dictionary.net/search/latin/thesaurus

In this sense, the word 'thesaurus' accords well with the received meaning of 'kośa'. See, for example, Monier Williams which gives among various meanings:

a treasury , apartment where money or plate is kept , treasure , accumulated wealth (gold or silver , wrought or unwrought , as plate , jewellery , &c.) ib. ; (in surg.) a kind of bandage Sus3r. ; a dictionary , lexicon or vocabulary ; a poetical collection , collection of sentences &c.

In practical terms too, thesaurus works appropriately for 'kośa' as the so called Roget's Thesaurus published in 1805 is similar to Amarakośa. It has topics arranged in thematic fashion in terms of classes, sub divisions and sections, with word lists occurring therein. Its formal name is Roget’s Thesaurus of English Words and Phrases Classified and Arranged so to Assist in Literary Composition. In this sense, it purpose seems to have been similar to that of the Amarakosha. 

In the 18th-19th centuries, Europe went thru what I like to think of as their Samkhya phase when they rolled up their sleeves and started classifying the world. Thus we had Linnaeus' taxonomy i.e., classification of plants and animals, Mendeleyev's Periodic Table which classified naturally occurring elements and Roget's thesaurus, a work that classified words which is said to have been influenced by Linnaeus' taxonomy. Then we had Darwin who organized species in a hierarchy, so to speak. Parallelly in the same age while the classificatory zeal was getting to its acme, a physician named Blumenbach in Göttingen, wrote his thesis in which he classified human beings into 5 races, 'Aryan' being one of them 😊

Hope this helps,

Srini

Srini

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[Jsr Prasad]

So by no means it can be called a Sanskrit Dictionary because as the name suggests it is Amarsingh's Dictionary. 

​Sri Achyut ji, you may be aware, the work is primarily called - 'nāma-liṅgānuśāsanam.'​ The title 'Amarakosha' is more popular than the primary/given title because Amarasimha had created something highly innovative, in kosha tradition. This instance is akin to the case of śiśupālavadham, popularly known as māgham.

[K S Kannan]

It is a fact that Roget's Thesaurus was modelled after Amara-kos'a.

He chose the word Thesaurus as it also means kos'a in the sense of a treasury.

He has tried to criticise the arrangement of Amara,

but then he could not appreciate, because could not understand, certain issues with our ontology.

It is another matter that subsequent editions of Roget's Thesaurus 

have hushed up his indebtedness to Amara-kos'a.

He had seen Colebrooke's translation of Amara-kos'a into English

On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 11:06 PM, Jsr Prasad <jsrap...@gmail.com> wrote:

So by no means it can be called a Sanskrit Dictionary because as the name suggests it is Amarsingh's Dictionary. 

​Sri Achyut ji, you may be aware, the work is primarily called - 'nāma-liṅgānuśāsanam.'​ The title 'Amarakosha' is more popular than the primary/given title because Amarasimha had created something highly innovative, in kosha tradition. This instance is akin to the case of śiśupālavadham, popularly known as māgham.

--

[Achyut Karve]

Dear JSR Prasadji,

Thank you for the information.  This puts the subject to rest.

With regards,
Achyut Karve.

On Nov 2, 2017 11:06 PM, "Jsr Prasad" <jsrap...@gmail.com> wrote:

So by no means it can be called a Sanskrit Dictionary because as the name suggests it is Amarsingh's Dictionary. 

​Sri Achyut ji, you may be aware, the work is primarily called - 'nāma-liṅgānuśāsanam.'​ The title 'Amarakosha' is more popular than the primary/given title because Amarasimha had created something highly innovative, in kosha tradition. This instance is akin to the case of śiśupālavadham, popularly known as māgham.

--

[Srinivasakrishnan ln]

> It is another matter that subsequent editions of Roget's Thesaurus

> have hushed up his indebtedness to Amara-kos'a.

The 1883 edition of Roget's Thesaurus is available for download as a PDF in Google Books. It does have the Preface to the First Edition (1852). The reference to the Amarakośa and its translation by HT Colebrooke (1808) can be seen on page xxviii of the PDF. Note however that the displayed google book appears to be a different edition, so the pagination varies from that of the PDF.

Hope this helps,

Srini

[K S Kannan]

Have you seen any edition of Roget's Thesaurus in recent years, or even decades,

where the Introduction/Preface mentions even casually his knowledge of Amera Cosha, as he calls it?

Here are hypocrites clamouring for Intellectual Property Rights!

Conmen in academic outfits crying foul at plagiarism!

That sums up a good many of the "intellectually honest" West.

(exceptions exempted)

[S. L. Abhyankar]

श्रीमन् जे-एस्=आर्-प्रसाद-वर्य !

I appreciate your clarification that अमरकोश should primarily be known as नामलिङ्गानुशासनम्. Saint ज्ञानेश्वर's commentary on गीता should primarily be called as भावार्थदीपिका though it is popularly known as ज्ञानेश्वरी. 

I would like to also endorse that अमरकोश is more the thesaurus than a dictionary. 

If I know it right, अमरसिंह was not really the first one to do thesaurus-style (subject-based) compilation of a शब्दकोश. Compilations much older than अमरकोश are निघण्टु/निरुक्त compiled by महर्षी यास्क. Orders of words in dictionaries are alphabetical. That, I think, is the big difference. 

See निघण्टः निघण्टुः 1 A vocabulary or glossary of words. -2 Particularly the glossary of Vedic words explained by Yāska, in his Nirukta. 

निरुक्त a. 1 Expressed, pronounced, explained, defined. -2 Loud, distinct. -3 Enjoined, decided; पात्रं त्वत्र निरुक्तं वै कविभिः पात्रवित्तमैः Bhāg.7.14.34. -4 Interpreted, accomplished (as a word); proved from शब्दप्रमाण (as शब्दैकगम्य); वेदांश्च वेद्यं तु विधिं च कृत्स्नमथो निरुक्तं परमार्थतां च Mb.12.245.3. -क्तम् 1 Explanation, derivation, etymological interpretation. स वा एष आत्मा हृदि तस्यैतदेव निरुक्तं हदयमिति Ch. Up.8.3.3; महत्त्वाद्भारवत्त्वाच्च महाभारतमुच्यते । निरुक्तमस्य यो वेद सर्वपापैः प्रमुच्यते ॥ Mb.1.1.274. -2 N. of one of the six Vedāṅgas, that which contains glossarial explanation of obscure words, especially those occurring in the Vedas; नाम च धातुजमाह निरुक्ते Nir. -3 N. of a celebrated commentary on the Nighaṇṭus by Yāska. 

[Srinivasakrishnan ln]

Well, let me tell you a story. The Tirumala Tirupati Devasthanams published a 'History of Tirumala Tirupati Devasthanams' in 1953. The first edition had a Foreword by the then Chief Minister of Madras Presidency, the late Rajaji who was the prime mover behind the history project. Post 1953, Madras Presidency was partitioned into Telugu and Tamil speaking provinces. The Tirupati area fell in the Telugu speaking province so the temple and its admin body, the TT Devasthanam, from then on came under the purview of the then Andhra Pradesh. The 'History' which till date is in print has never had Rajaji's Foreword after the first edition. 

 This happened in our time and in our geography. It's not anything abstract like Sanskrit or some 6th century author or some Victorian era book. It's a work on a temple which millions of people visit today. So what can this anomaly be attributed to? Some due diligence is called for before one attributes hypocrisy, foul play, intellectual dishonesty, linguistic chauvinism or something else. Meanwhile, I find the 'History' rather useful. The TTD have been faithfully printing the original work of the author, Sri TKT Viraraghavacharya, edition after edition without any addition or modification but without the Foreword to the first edition. This too happens.  

I was merely pointing out  that 'thesaurus' may be a better translation for 'kośa' and also that the Preface to the First Edition of Roget's work that you alluded to in your subsequent mail is available in Google Books for anyone to see.  That's all. 

Srini

[G S S Murthy]

Very informative discussion indeed

  The idea of sankhya phase in 19 the century is new to me and thought provoking. Thanks

Regards

Murthy

[K S Kannan]

Hypocrisy is not the monopoly of the West,

but often it is the pot that calls the kettle black

[V Subrahmanian]

Dear Sri Srinivasakrishnan,

If you have access to the Foreword that you mention in your post below, could you kindly share the image of the same on this forum?

Thanks and warm regards

subrahmanian.v

[Srinivasakrishnan ln]

What I have in my possession now is a 1990s edition.  I dont have access to the first edition  now. It may be available in a university library. 

Srini

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

https://archive.org/details/HistoryOfTirupatiVolI

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

--

[K S Kannan]

AG is always resourceful!

[V Subrahmanian]

Thanks Ajit ji, for the link.

subrahmanian.v

On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 8:54 AM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Srinivasakrishnan ln]

Thank you, Ajit-ji.

Srini

[Jsr Prasad]

नमस्ते श्री अभ्यङ्करवर्याः,

Nice to see your elaborations. Even, I thought of the same. That is why I said, 'He did something highly innovative in the Kosha tradition.' Because, Yaska Rishi was the क्रान्तदर्शी who says - समाम्नायः समाम्नातः... छन्दोभ्यः समाहृत्य समाहृत्य समाम्नातः । A kind of ontological approach invented by him, must have inspired the Buddhist scholar, Amara. As you put it right about the structure of the Kosha, other senior scholars also expressed the same.

One may be interested to read a relevant paper, related to Amara and Roget, from here - http://www.languageinindia.com/june2004/amarkosh.html

[Dr.BVK Sastry(G-MAIL)]

Namaste

 

On  Connecting the points  below

 

Question: Do we have anything to connect to affirm Roget’s positive  awareness of  design of  Amarsimhas  work ? beyond ‘transaltion ? Does Colebrook speak about the ‘ Design of Amarakosha’?

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

[Dr.BVK Sastry(G-MAIL)]

Namaste

 

If this ‘ Kosha’ Thesaurus model reference  existed as early as  1883, what made the  Indian Oriental scholars overlook the  mapping of the word ‘ Kosha’  as ‘Dictionary’   ?   And  did not press to include the true sense of ‘- 'nāma-liṅgānuśāsanam ‘  as the communication from the term  ‘Amara- Kosha’ ? 

 

See the images attached.

 

Why did different lexicon makers use different  ‘Word- Meaning Map’ to build the ‘  Sanskrit -Dictionary’ ?  For whose benefit ?

 

MW dictionary came in 1872. ( and many other dictionaries of Sanskrit came since 1832 ! - http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/ ) . Apte’s dictionary came in 1890.

 

Wilson (1832) lists the meaning of this word as     17 A dictionary or vocabulary. f. (-षी)    (http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/WILScan/2014/web/webtc/indexcaller.php   )

 

See link   entry :  http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/MW72Scan/2014/web/webtc/servepdf.php?page=0256

 

And why attribute  ‘hypocrisy’ only one section of scholars for the failure of the native scholars  to take care of the ‘ Home Tradition and Guard it’ ?   

Nay promote the inaccurate model  and tools of Sanskrit studies ??  So what is Battle: Sanskrit for ?? 

 

So on whom should one place the  burden of ‘ diluting,  distorting  Samskrutham  to Sanskrit ?  Tolerating the same ? Proliferating the inappropriate model’ please ?   Translators or Traditionalists ? The damage is not only in understanding ‘Samskrutham of Vedas’ ; but also the ‘ Darshana –Shaastra and Veda –Vijnana’.

 

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

 

 

 

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of K S Kannan

Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2017 3:16 PM
To: bvparishat

Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Hyderabad Amarakosha

[Bharti Khatri]

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BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

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