My article on etymology of Kashmir
Nityanand Misra
Shrikant Jamadagni
Bengaluru
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Srinivasakrishnan ln
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Hardik Joshi (हार्दिक जोशी)
Very nice article. Well-argued. I feel this article should put to rest some of the wilder speculations on the origin of the toponym e.g., that of Wilson, Babur etc.Still, ' a place to which people go' may not present itself as an arresting final argument to some of us. But we do have other janapada's like anga, vanga, kalinga, mithila etc whose names appear to me to be without etymology.Regards,Srini
On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 9:23 AM, Nityanand Misra <nmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear listSome of you may be interested in my article on etymology of the word Kashmir.Unfortunately the diacritics did not pass the copy-editing process. The attached word article is a pre-publication draft with diacritics. The attachment is for your reference only, and for any citations, please cite the article in Swarajya.Your feedback and comments are welcome, as always.Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Nityanand--Nityānanda Miśra
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Shrikant Jamadagni
Bengaluru
Ganesh R
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K S Kannan
Nagaraj Paturi
Dmitri Semenov
Was a derivation from dhatu kaz with two suffixes -mi and -ra ever proposed?
Suresh Kolichala
In addition to Sanskrit literature -- where the name Kāśmīra is widely attested -- the linguistic evidence from the other languages must be considered in attempting to derive the etymology as well. We know that the term Kāśmīra appears as kaspīra in Pasai language, kaśīr in Dardic Ṣiṇa language, and as kamhīra, kambhāra, kasamīra in various Prakrits. Interestingly, the Tibetan has Kaspara as well. There is some evidence to show that Middle Chinese may have a spelling closer to kaspir for this area.
Nagaraj Paturi
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Suresh Kolichala
Nagaraj Paturi
Shrikant Jamadagni
Bengaluru
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Nityanand Misra
On Tuesday, 4 April 2017 11:53:19 UTC+8, Suresh Kolichala wrote:
Dear Vidwan Nagaraj-ji,As I said, it is difficult to trace the etymologies of some of these geographical terms, as they may belong to long lost aboriginal languages of India -- from the pre-IE, pre-Dravidian linguistic strata (what I call a Niṣādic substrate) about which we have almost no knowledge, other than some intractable toponyms, hydronyms and ethnonyms. As I said, what etymology do we assign to the terms such as: hammīra (हम्मीर = of a king of Śākam-bharī), samīra (समीर = of a people), timīra (तिमीर), kirmīra (किर्मीर =Rākshasa or goblin conquered by Bhīma-sena), karmīra (कर्मीर) etc?Regards,Suresh.
Thanks to Shrikant Jamadagni Ji, L Srinivas Ji, Hardik Joshi Ji, Shatavadhani Galu, Prof. Kannan, and Prof. Paturi for their kind comments.
Our friend Dmitri Semenov asked if a derivation with two suffixes “-mi” and “-ra” was ever proposed. I have not come across any such derivation. Other list members may enlighten if they have seen such a derivation.
To Suresh Kolichala Ji,
You asked “have you considered …”. Let me clarify that I am not the source of the etymology from the root “kash” that I mention in the article. The etymology is from the Unadi Sutra and Sanskrit grammar tradition. I do not know if they considered the other similar names or not. It is possible that the word is what is called avyutpanna, having no derivation. I have briefly touched this in the article where I wrote:
“It may be argued that since words formed from Unadi Sutra-s are considered to be ready-made by Panini, kashmira is really an underived proper noun for which the author of Unadi Sutras traced the most similar-sounding root.”
If this view is taken then any Sanskrit etymology is fanciful indeed and there is no point in even attempting. However, the name may also be a Sanskritized version of a previous name, in which case the way Sanskrit sources derive the name becomes critical for our consideration.
However, the focus of the article is not on whether the name is derived or underived, but rather on how Kashmir is derived in
the tradition of Sanskrit grammar, and it is clear that for more than 2,500
years, the word has been considered as derived in a specific way in Sanskrit. This
is why I wrote (italics for emphasis):
“what is certain is that if an etymology of Kashmir from a Sanskrit word or root is to be considered at all, it must be in accordance with Sanskrit etymological and grammatical sources.”
Nagaraj Paturi
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Nagaraj Paturi
Dr. P. Ramanujan
On Tuesday, 4 April 2017 11:53:19 UTC+8, Suresh Kolichala wrote:
Dear Vidwan Nagaraj-ji,As I said, it is difficult to trace the etymologies of some of these geographical terms, as they may belong to long lost aboriginal languages of India -- from the pre-IE, pre-Dravidian linguistic strata (what I call a Niṣādic substrate) about which we have almost no knowledge, other than some intractable toponyms, hydronyms and ethnonyms. As I said, what etymology do we assign to the terms such as: hammīra ( हम्मीर = of a king of Śākam-bharī ), samīra ( समीर = of a people), timīra (तिमीर), kirmīra ( किर्मीर = Rākshasa or goblin conquered by Bhīma-sena ), karmīra ( कर्मीर) etc?Regards,Suresh.
Thanks to Shrikant Jamadagni Ji, L Srinivas Ji, Hardik Joshi Ji, Shatavadhani Galu, Prof. Kannan, and Prof. Paturi for their kind comments.
Our friend Dmitri Semenov asked if a derivation with two suffixes “-mi” and “-ra” was ever proposed. I have not come across any such derivation. Other list members may enlighten if they have seen such a derivation.
To Suresh Kolichala Ji,
You asked “have you considered …”. Let me clarify that I am not the source of the etymology from the root “kash” that I mention in the article. The etymology is from the Unadi Sutra and Sanskrit grammar tradition. I do not know if they considered the other similar names or not. It is possible that the word is what is called avyutpanna, having no derivation. I have briefly touched this in the article where I wrote:
“It may be argued that since words formed from Unadi Sutra-s are considered to be ready-made by Panini, kashmira is really an underived proper noun for which the author of Unadi Sutras traced the most similar-sounding root.”
If this view is taken then any Sanskrit etymology is fanciful indeed and there is no point in even attempting. However, the name may also be a Sanskritized version of a previous name, in which case the way Sanskrit sources derive the name becomes critical for our consideration.
However, the focus of the article is not on whether the name is derived or underived, but rather on how Kashmir is derived in the tradition of Sanskrit grammar, and it is clear that for more than 2,500 years, the word has been considered as derived in a specific way in Sanskrit. This is why I wrote (italics for emphasis):
“what is certain is that if an etymology of Kashmir from a Sanskrit word or root is to be considered at all, it must be in accordance with Sanskrit etymological and grammatical sources.”
I have already mentioned my reasons to favour the Unadi Sutra etymology over the popular etymologies by Wilson, Vigne, etc. and the ‘folk etymology’ (Ka = water + shimir = dessicate).Regarding non-Sanskrit languages, they may certainly be explored but are there sufficient textual sources that mention/derive the word Kashmira prior to Unadi Sutras (~ 500 BCE)?
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K S Kannan
कार्ष्मर्यो नाम यज्ञियवृक्षविशेषः वेदेषु श्रुतः ।पुष्कलतया तद्वत्त्वात् काष्मीर नाम युज्यते वा इति काचित् मनीषा ।रामानुजः
On April 4, 2017 at 10:16 AM Nityanand Misra <nmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, 4 April 2017 11:53:19 UTC+8, Suresh Kolichala wrote:Dear Vidwan Nagaraj-ji,As I said, it is difficult to trace the etymologies of some of these geographical terms, as they may belong to long lost aboriginal languages of India -- from the pre-IE, pre-Dravidian linguistic strata (what I call a Niṣādic substrate) about which we have almost no knowledge, other than some intractable toponyms, hydronyms and ethnonyms. As I said, what etymology do we assign to the terms such as: hammīra ( हम्मीर = of a king of Śākam-bharī ), samīra ( समीर = of a people), timīra (तिमीर), kirmīra ( किर्मीर = Rākshasa or goblin conquered by Bhīma-sena ), karmīra ( कर्मीर) etc?Regards,Suresh.Thanks to Shrikant Jamadagni Ji, L Srinivas Ji, Hardik Joshi Ji, Shatavadhani Galu, Prof. Kannan, and Prof. Paturi for their kind comments.
Our friend Dmitri Semenov asked if a derivation with two suffixes “-mi” and “-ra” was ever proposed. I have not come across any such derivation. Other list members may enlighten if they have seen such a derivation.
To Suresh Kolichala Ji,
You asked “have you considered …”. Let me clarify that I am not the source of the etymology from the root “kash” that I mention in the article. The etymology is from the Unadi Sutra and Sanskrit grammar tradition. I do not know if they considered the other similar names or not. It is possible that the word is what is called avyutpanna, having no derivation. I have briefly touched this in the article where I wrote:
“It may be argued that since words formed from Unadi Sutra-s are considered to be ready-made by Panini, kashmira is really an underived proper noun for which the author of Unadi Sutras traced the most similar-sounding root.”
If this view is taken then any Sanskrit etymology is fanciful indeed and there is no point in even attempting. However, the name may also be a Sanskritized version of a previous name, in which case the way Sanskrit sources derive the name becomes critical for our consideration.
However, the focus of the article is not on whether the name is derived or underived, but rather on how Kashmir is derived in the tradition of Sanskrit grammar, and it is clear that for more than 2,500 years, the word has been considered as derived in a specific way in Sanskrit. This is why I wrote (italics for emphasis):
“what is certain is that if an etymology of Kashmir from a Sanskrit word or root is to be considered at all, it must be in accordance with Sanskrit etymological and grammatical sources.”
I have already mentioned my reasons to favour the Unadi Sutra etymology over the popular etymologies by Wilson, Vigne, etc. and the ‘folk etymology’ (Ka = water + shimir = dessicate).Regarding non-Sanskrit languages, they may certainly be explored but are there sufficient textual sources that mention/derive the word Kashmira prior to Unadi Sutras (~ 500 BCE)?--
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Nityanand Misra
On Wednesday, 5 April 2017 22:43:25 UTC+8, Gérard Huet wrote:
On Sunday, April 2, 2017 at 3:23:13 PM UTC+2, Nityanand Misra wrote:A new edition of the उणादिकोशः was published in 2004 by Rashtriya Sanskrit Vidyapeetha, Tirupati. It lists कश्मीरः as obtained by rule [4,32] कशोर्मुट् च.However, the word is interpreted differently there, as कष्टे गच्छति इति कश्मीरः i.e. "Kashmir is that which experiences pain".Thus, even if one adheres to the व्युत्पन्न point of view, your conclusion about uṇādisūtra(s) giving an authoritative unambiguous etymology is to be taken with a grain of salt, since pandits differ in their interpretation...
David and Nancy Reigle
Dear Nityananda Ji,
Your article on “The Etymology of Kashmir” is,
to my mind, an excellent example of exactly the kind of research that is
needed. When old and authoritative sources exist, in this case the Uṇādi-sūtras,
they must be preferred. Then there is no need for speculations or guesses based
on later or less central sources.
Speculative answers to problems related to Sanskrit words are common. A case similar to yours came to my attention some years ago, regarding the meaning of the word praśaṭhatā. The answer was there all the time in the Pāṇinīya Dhātu-pāṭha (https://www.academia.edu/6423804/The_Virtually_Unknown_Benedictive_Middle_in_Classical_Sanskrit_Two_Occurrences_in_the_Buddhist_Abhisamayalankara, p. 123).
Just wanted to add my voice to all the appreciations already expressed here. Whether or not one is interested in the etymology of kaśmīra, your article provides a good model for research. You clearly give the reasons why previous speculative etymologies are incorrect, and you demonstrate the value of consulting primary sources from the Sanskrit grammatical tradition in arriving at the correct etymology.
Thank you.
Best regards,
David Reigle
U.S.A.
sunil bhattacharjya
KN.Ramesh
Origins of Kashmir as per mythology
The Kashmiri tradition holds that the region was once a great lake by name Sati-saras. It was the lake (saras) in which young Sati Devi (Goddess Uma when born as the daughter of Daksha) would bathe and sport in. Later on, the Naga-s, born of Kashyapa Prajapati, populated these waters.
Apparently there suddenly rose in these waters an asura by name Jalodbhava (“born in water”). He had a boon that he could not be destroyed in water, and therefore began to persecute the Nagas in impunity. At this, and there are two stories beyond this point, the Naga-s appealed to their patriarch Sage Kashyapa, who by His powers of penance dried the region thereby rendering the asura powerless and easy to conquer. As “Kashyapa” caused this land to relatively become a “Maru” (desert, in compared to the entire area being under water before), it came to be called “Kashyapa-Maru” which transformed into “Kashmira”.
Another account says that the Nagas appealed to Vishnu, Shiva and Ambika. Taking pity on them, Shiva created a path for the water to drain away from the region by the edge of a great plough (or the tip of His bow the Pinaka). Even then, the asura by his powers of illusion, would fly here and there when attacked. To prevent this, the Devi took the form of a mynah (Hari in Kashmiri) and dropped a stone on him, which prevented him from flying. Vishnu then beheaded him with His discus.
[It is interesting to note that even in modern geography, they say that in very ancient times, towards the north of India was a great lake by name Tethys Sea which slowly drained away as a result of geological shifts in the Himalayan region.]
The Devi who took a form of a Hari then came to rest in a hill in Kashmir, which came to be called Hari Parbat. She is manifested in the form of a Shrichakra on the rock-face of this hill, and the place is called Chakreshvari Peetham. This is one of the numerous Shakti Peethams in Kashmir. Due to the importance of the Devi manifested in the Shrichakra, the city that developed around this kshetra became to be called Shri-nagara. As the bird Hari is also known as Sharika, the Devi here is known as Sharika Devi, and is the presiding family deity to many Kashmiri Hindu families.
Once the water had been drained for vanquishing the asura, the Nagas were no longer able to live in physical form as before, and therefore took a subtle form and entered the various water sources underground. Thus every spring is called a “Nag” in Kashmir. The villagers would use river water for bathing, washing etc, but for cooking and drinking they would only use the sweet water of the Nag after doing puja to the Naga deity. As a result of the draining of water many learned people from all around came to the region and settled there, enamoured by the natural beauty and peace that prevailed in this place. It was also the favourite haunt of many sages doing their penance. Thus was the settlement of Kashmir in times long gone.
KN.Ramesh
Origins of Kashmir as per mythology
The Kashmiri tradition holds that the region was once a great lake by name Sati-saras. It was the lake (saras) in which young Sati Devi (Goddess Uma when born as the daughter of Daksha) would bathe and sport in. Later on, the Naga-s, born of Kashyapa Prajapati, populated these waters.
Apparently there suddenly rose in these waters an asura by name Jalodbhava (“born in water”). He had a boon that he could not be destroyed in water, and therefore began to persecute the Nagas in impunity. At this, and there are two stories beyond this point, the Naga-s appealed to their patriarch Sage Kashyapa, who by His powers of penance dried the region thereby rendering the asura powerless and easy to conquer. As “Kashyapa” caused this land to relatively become a “Maru” (desert, in compared to the entire area being under water before), it came to be called “Kashyapa-Maru” which transformed into “Kashmira”.
Another account says that the Nagas appealed to Vishnu, Shiva and Ambika. Taking pity on them, Shiva created a path for the water to drain away from the region by the edge of a great plough (or the tip of His bow the Pinaka). Even then, the asura by his powers of illusion, would fly here and there when attacked. To prevent this, the Devi took the form of a mynah (Hari in Kashmiri) and dropped a stone on him, which prevented him from flying. Vishnu then beheaded him with His discus.
[It is interesting to note that even in modern geography, they say that in very ancient times, towards the north of India was a great lake by name Tethys Sea which slowly drained away as a result of geological shifts in the Himalayan region.]
The Devi who took a form of a Hari then came to rest in a hill in Kashmir, which came to be called Hari Parbat. She is manifested in the form of a Shrichakra on the rock-face of this hill, and the place is called Chakreshvari Peetham. This is one of the numerous Shakti Peethams in Kashmir. Due to the importance of the Devi manifested in the Shrichakra, the city that developed around this kshetra became to be called Shri-nagara. As the bird Hari is also known as Sharika, the Devi here is known as Sharika Devi, and is the presiding family deity to many Kashmiri Hindu families.
Once the water had been drained for vanquishing the asura, the Nagas were no longer able to live in physical form as before, and therefore took a subtle form and entered the various water sources underground. Thus every spring is called a “Nag” in Kashmir. The villagers would use river water for bathing, washing etc, but for cooking and drinking they would only use the sweet water of the Nag after doing puja to the Naga deity. As a result of the draining of water many learned people from all around came to the region and settled there, enamoured by the natural beauty and peace that prevailed in this place. It was also the favourite haunt of many sages doing their penance. Thus was the settlement of Kashmir in times long gone.
On Sunday, 2 April 2017 18:53:13 UTC+5:30, Nityanand Misra wrote:
