Original Bhagavadgita -verses from Saiva Agama (from Two Days National Seminar on Saivagama....)

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Sri Sunil K Bhattacharyaji said:

Namaste,
 
Congratulations for organizing national seminar on Saivagama. Due to logistical obstacles I would not be able to attend that, but hope that the proceedings will be published. 

Very few people know that more than twenty verses of the Bhagavad Gita are from Saivagama and that is why in the original Bhagavad Gita there is a verse, where Sanjaya says that Lord Krishna has given  teacings from both Agana and Nigama. Somebody at some stage deleted that verse as well as quite some more verses from the Original Bhagavad Gita and one would not find that verse of Sanjaya in the vulgate version of the Bhagavad Gita.

Sri Bhattacharyaji shall provide evidence for his claims here in this thread. 

Others interested in the topic may post here in this thread.

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Thank you Prof. Paturiji,

The Original Bhagavad Gita has the following verse:

संजय उवाच
राजन्भगवतो वाक्यं निगमागमगर्भितम् ।
निशम्य स्वस्थमनसा प्रह्वोऽवोचदथार्जुनः ॥१८.७३॥

In this verse, Sanjaya tells king (Dhritarashtra) that hearing with a steady mind, the words of the Lord, full of the essence of the Nigamas and the Agamas, the humble Arjuna said like this.Then follows the nest verse.

One scholar late E. Vedavyas, in the early nineteen eighties, reported  that indeed as many as twenty one verses of the Bhagavad Gita have been found to correspond to the verses from the Paramesvara Agama and the Sukshma Agama. These two Agamas belong to the list of the early 28 Shaivagamas.

To my knowledge, the way Vedanta  is considered para-vidya as compared to the apara-vidya of the Vedas, that Agamas too are considered as Para-vidya. as compared to the apara-vidya of the Vedas. The Agamas consider the four Vedas to be authentic, but at the same time, to my understanding, they  also consider the Vedas to be difficult to understand, whereas the Aganas are direct to understand and easy to follow.

May be we have Agama scholars in this forum, who may like to add more on this.

Regards,

Sunil KB

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[Vidyasankar Sundaresan]

Dear Sunil ji,

For the benefit of list members, please specify which text you intend, when you use the term "Original Bhagavad Gita." The verse you cite below, numbered 18.73, will not be found in any of the generally available publications of the Gita and that will lead to confusion for readers about your textual reference.

Best regards,

Vidyasankar

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear Vidyasankarji,

I am referring to the Original Bhagavad Gita of 747 verses and not the vulgate version of 700 verses.

Regards,

Sunl KB

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

Did you share this 747 verses version earlier? If yes, please remind. If not, please share it. 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

I have further question. What is meant by ‘Original Bhagavad Gita’ what is the criteria of including or excluding verses to the proposed ‘Original Bhagavad Gita’. What are the texts manuscripts and printed editions that were consulted in preparing the Original Bhagavad Gita”

Can the report of  E. Vedavyas be shared. These details would be helpful to me.

 

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[sunil bhattacharjya]

Namaste,

The book entitled "The Original Bhagavad Gita, Complete with 745 verses (including all the Rare Verses)",  was released in Delhi in May 2014,  under the aegis of the World Association for Vedic Studies (WAVES). It took me almost two and a half decades to complete that book. The book was sold in India and people from Europe and America also ordered it. I have announced about the book-release in the BVP at that time.

The book was sold at Rupees 350/- and if I remember right Shri  Nityananad Misraji expressed in this forum  that the price of the book was moderate. In fact I have incurred financial loss in publishing the book, the only happiness I have is that I could bring out the book. The book went out of print about a year ago. I have plan to bring out the next edition with addition of certain allied topics, but it may take some time.

Regards,

Sunil KB

[sunil bhattacharjya]

In the Mahabharata, Vaishampayana says in the Bhishma parva as follows:

shat-shatAni savimsAni shlokAnAm prAha keshavah

arjunah sapta panchashat saptashatim  ca sanjayah

dhritarashtrah slokam ekam GitAyA mAnam ucyate.

The commonly available version does not meet that requirement. Not only that, there are clear indication of gaps in the commonly available version, which shows that certain verses were removed from the Original Bhagavad Gita to make the common version.

The book brought out by me has 336 pages and out of that the preface and the Introduction are covered in 34 pages, which covers the questions such as yours. As the book is out of print I am not in a position tot send you a copy of that now. I have my personal copy with me and I carry it with me wherever I go. Six months ago when I was in Bangaluru the book was with me, but not at time when we met. Hopefully during my next trip to Bangalauru, I  should  be able to show you the book. It could be that some of the members of BVP from Bangaluru may already be having copy of the book.

Regards,

Sunil KB

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[Ajit Gargeshwari]

All this curiosity and my questions could have been answered at the outset  if you had said my edition of Bhagvad Gita covers the points I have raised. You could have simply attached the introduction pages as the book is out of print I am not asking you for the entire book. It’s your book and your painfully carried out research and you have the right to share or not as it is your material.  I will look for the book either from you directly or from libraries if they do have a copy.  Even now I don’t know anything about the report of report of  E. Vedavyas. Thank you

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of sunil bhattacharjya
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:49 AM
To: BHARATIYA VIDVAT
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Original Bhagavadgita -verses from Saiva Agama (from Two Days National Seminar on Saivagama....)

 

In the Mahabharata, Vaishampayana says in the Bhishma parva as follows:

shat-shatAni savimsAni shlokAnAm prAha keshavah

arjunah sapta panchashat saptashatim  ca sanjayah

dhritarashtrah slokam ekam GitAyA mAnam ucyate.

The commonly available version does not meet that requirement. Not only that, there are clear indication of gaps in the commonly available version, which shows that certain verses were removed from the Original Bhagavad Gita to make the common version.

The book brought out by me has 336 pages and out of that the preface and the Introduction are covered in 34 pages, which covers the questions such as yours. As the book is out of print I am not in a position tot send you a copy of that now. I have my personal copy with me and I carry it with me wherever I go. Six months ago when I was in Bangaluru the book was with me, but not at time when we met. Hopefully during my next trip to Bangalauru, I  should  be able to show you the book. It could be that some of the members of BVP from Bangaluru may already be having copy of the book.

Regards,

Sunil KB

 

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 6:19 PM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have further question. What is meant by ‘Original Bhagavad Gita’ what is the criteria of including or excluding verses to the proposed ‘Original Bhagavad Gita’. What are the texts manuscripts and printed editions that were consulted in preparing the Original Bhagavad Gita”

Can the report of  E. Vedavyas be shared. These details would be helpful to me.

 

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

--

 

 

 

 

[Jsr Prasad]

More about Dr. Ekkirala Vedavyasa, IAS, can be found from the following page - http://vedavyasabharati.org/index.html?page=founder/the_man

From the publications link, it is evident that he has authored a book titled 'Ancient Bhagavad Gita' consisting 745 verses - http://vedavyasabharati.org/publications/pb_EBG.html

Regards

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Namaste,

Yes, Dr.E. Vedavyas did  publish his work  and that was preceded by  another work on the the Bhagavad Gita of 745 from Gondal pith in Gujarat. Prof Kulkarni, who,was a Sanskrit professor in Osmania university, commented that Vedavyasa's book was a copy of the Gondal pith version. Both Vedavyasa's and Gondal pith versions have more than 750 verses and cannot be called the version as was told in the Mahabharata. There was another book in Hindi published from Varanasi, and that too was not exactly as per the Mahabharata statement.

Regards,

Sunil KB

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear Prasadji,

Vedavyasa's as well as the earlier works on 745 verses such as from the Gondal pith have more than 750 verses. That prompted me to work on the original Bhagavad Gita of 745 verses, corresponding to the Gitamana verse of the Mhabahrata.

Regards,

Sunil KB

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 9:49 AM, Jsr Prasad <jsrap...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Vishal Agarwal]

It might be just beneficial to share a scan with all the scholars, just as other Shastras too are available online these days.

Vishal

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[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Thank you Prof. Prasad

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jsr Prasad
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:19 PM
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Original Bhagavadgita -verses from Saiva Agama (from Two Days National Seminar on Saivagama....)

 

More about Dr. Ekkirala Vedavyasa, IAS, can be found from the following page - http://vedavyasabharati.org/index.html?page=founder/the_man

 

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[Mamata Dash]

With regards to Vidvaans, this discussion of the great scholars put more importance to the Critical Edition of any text. 

reagards

Mamata

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 7:26 AM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you Prof. Prasad

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvparishat@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jsr Prasad
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:19 PM
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Original Bhagavadgita -verses from Saiva Agama (from Two Days National Seminar on Saivagama....)

 

More about Dr. Ekkirala Vedavyasa, IAS, can be found from the following page - http://vedavyasabharati.org/index.html?page=founder/the_man

From the publications link, it is evident that he has authored a book titled 'Ancient Bhagavad Gita' consisting 745 verses - http://vedavyasabharati.org/publications/pb_EBG.html

Regards

 

Even now I don’t know anything about the report of report of  E. Vedavyas. Thank you

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

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[Jsr Prasad]

Prof. Mamata ji raised an important question in connection with the claim on original Bhagavad-Gita. Until the underlying methodology is detailed, debate can't proceed further. 

The verse from Bhishma-parvan describing verses beyond 700 is interesting. I would suggest Sunil ji to verify the same with BORI's research on 27,000 interpolated verses in Mahabharata. Do not know whether this is in or out of that purview.

Scanned preface or introduction of the book may help scholars here to to better understand the perspective.

Regards

Sent from my Motorola phone

[श्रीमल्ललितालालितः]

To add to it, people must validate their edition themselves and then present to scholars for critical analysis. Without that, it will be just an edition, no matter what you want to label it.

On Wed 1 Feb, 2017, 08:00 Mamata Dash, <mamat...@gmail.com> wrote:

With regards to Vidvaans, this discussion of the great scholars put more importance to the Critical Edition of any text. 

reagards

Mamata

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 7:26 AM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you Prof. Prasad

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jsr Prasad
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:19 PM
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Original Bhagavadgita -verses from Saiva Agama (from Two Days National Seminar on Saivagama....)

 

More about Dr. Ekkirala Vedavyasa, IAS, can be found from the following page - http://vedavyasabharati.org/index.html?page=founder/the_man

From the publications link, it is evident that he has authored a book titled 'Ancient Bhagavad Gita' consisting 745 verses - http://vedavyasabharati.org/publications/pb_EBG.html

Regards

 

Even now I don’t know anything about the report of report of  E. Vedavyas. Thank you

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

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[Ajit Gargeshwari]

I agree with scholars unless one reads the introductory pages of Sunilji’s edition and understand the methodology he has used and why he has not accepted the critical edition it will be very difficult to pursue this matter further. If Sunilji has difficulty in sharing the introductory part may I request if any other scholars on the list have access to Sunilj’s edition to please share the introduction.

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Else, he may provide a gist of the methodology followed by him, here in this thread, in arriving at the 745 verses version published by him.

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

Else, he may provide a gist of the methodology followed by him,  in arriving at the 745 verses version published by him, here in this thread. 

[Jaya Prakash]

Hello Nagaraj ji,

Hari OM,

Long back I had read this book below is the link it may be useful for you.

Sri Bhagavad Geeta Vol I. 5010010078166. K.T.Sreenivasachariar. 1922. multilingual. RELIGION. THEOLOGY. 566 pgs.

Sri Bhagavad Geeta,Volume 1 Upodghata. 5010010078108. Pandit K T Sreenivasachariar. 1922. multilingual. RELIGION. THEOLOGY. 566 pgs. Hari OM.

[Mamata Dash]

With regards to the Vidvans, there are more than one hundred commentaries available on Bhagavadgita. The commentaries have been arranged school wise in the New Catalogus Catalogorum. may be the Sivadvaita Com.(Arthasangraha) Abhinava Gupta would have focused on the verses related to Saiva. And the Com. of Nilakantha on the whole Mahabharata can also be taken into consideration, as he declares that he collected the reading for diff. parts of the country. We need to have critical edition of the text.

with regards

Mamata

[Vishal Agarwal]

The critical text of Gita recording all textual variants has already been published within the MBH critical text by BORI, and the same has been published separately. In addition, Vasudeva Sharan Agrawala published a Hindi as well as an English translation of this critical text noting the major textual variants in footnotes.

The opinion of Dr Belvalkar was that the extra 14 odd verses in the Kashmirian recension were later editions (something that I disagree with), but he was also firm that the Suddha Dharma Mandala version containing 745 verses in 26 chapters was also fake. He was also of the firm opinion that the Geetamaana shlokas giving the extent of the Geeta were also later insertions because the manuscript authority does not support their authenticity.

If one counts the verses using the letter count of anushtup as the basis, and also count the letters of 'shri bhagavan uvaacha' etc., then you come close to 743 (I did that exercise a few years back, but it might not have been 100% accurate, although close to it). Some of the so called Kashmirian verses are also found in the extant portion of Bhaskarabhatta's commentary. In one case, he notes 5 extra verses  that occur in the 3rd chapter, but says, "These verses are found only in the Samkhyan commentaries of the Gita, and therefore we will not comment on them." In the Shri Vaishnava tradition, Venkatanatha notes that these same 5 verses were accepted by Narayanarya, following the commentary of Yadava Prakasha.

Dr Veda Vyasa too published a 745 verse version of the Gita, which is not much dissimilar from the Gondal version published earlier. Those who have seen the 'unique manuscript' on which the Gondal edition was based state that the orthography is modern Devanagari even though the paper on which is written is old.

I have eCopies of the Gondal edition, E Vedavyas edition as well as the Suddha Dharma Mandala editions, but I am not convinced entirely of their claims. 

On the other hand, there are texts that attribute to the Gita things that are not found therein. For instance, the Brihatkathashlokasamgraha of Buddhaswamin quotes a passage and says that it is from our Bhagavad Gita, but it is not present therein.

I have also read that the manuscript library of the Baroda Oriental Institute has an old commentary Lasiki on the Gita, that incorporates within it a preShankara commentary of Vasugupta (~500 AD ?).

It would be very interesting to learn more about Shri Sunil Bhattacharya's edition, and I say this as an unabashed Geeta-Premi.

Vishal

--

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

--

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[K S Kannan]

There are some interesting statements in the Kashmir recension such as -
10.38:

oṣadhīnāṁ yavaś cāsmi

     dhātūnāṁ asmi kāñcanam/

sarvāsāṁ tṛṇa-jātīnāṁ
     darbho'haṁ Pāṇdunandana //

But a good many of the variant readings are slight modifications of the original.

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[K S Kannan]

The Kashmir editions were championed by
Dr. Otto Schrader (Germany),

Jivaram Kalidas Sastri (Gondal), and

SNTadpatrikar (Poona)

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

The Kashmir edition  was also discussed on Indology list
http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/1998-January/010296.html

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear Shri Lalitaalaalitahji,

You said it. To be valid,  the edition of  the Original Bhagavad Gita has to meet the stipulations given in the Gitamana verse of the Mahabharata, in all its details. The Gitamana verse has specified the number of verses attributed to each speaker.  I found that  the previous works on the Original Bhagavad Gita by Dr. E. Vedavyas from Hyderabad and the one from the Gondal Pith in Gujarat  and the other editions, did not meet the requirements of the Gitamana verse.

Thanks for the mail.

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 6:47 PM, श्रीमल्ललितालालितः <lalitaa...@gmail.com> wrote:

To add to it, people must validate their edition themselves and then present to scholars for critical analysis. Without that, it will be just an edition, no matter what you want to label it.

On Wed 1 Feb, 2017, 08:00 Mamata Dash, <mamat...@gmail.com> wrote:

With regards to Vidvaans, this discussion of the great scholars put more importance to the Critical Edition of any text. 

reagards

Mamata

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 7:26 AM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you Prof. Prasad

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvparishat@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jsr Prasad
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:19 PM
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Original Bhagavadgita -verses from Saiva Agama (from Two Days National Seminar on Saivagama....)

 

More about Dr. Ekkirala Vedavyasa, IAS, can be found from the following page - http://vedavyasabharati.org/index.html?page=founder/the_man

From the publications link, it is evident that he has authored a book titled 'Ancient Bhagavad Gita' consisting 745 verses - http://vedavyasabharati.org/publications/pb_EBG.html

Regards

 

Even now I don’t know anything about the report of report of  E. Vedavyas. Thank you

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

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[shankara]

Namaste,

Gitamana issue was studied in detail by scholars like Belvalkar and Kunjunni Raja. Attaching an article 'The Bhagavadgita: the problems of the text' by K Kunjunni Raja, extracted from 'Gita Samiksha' collection of papers presented in a Gita Seminar at SV University in 1970. It gives details of the research done by other scholars on this subject.

 

Gita Samiksha is available online at https://archive.org/details/gitasamiksa014825mbp

regards
shankara

---

From: sunil bhattacharjya <skbhatt...@gmail.com>
To: BHARATIYA VIDVAT <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 1 February 2017 11:10 PM

Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Original Bhagavadgita -verses from Saiva Agama (from Two Days National Seminar on Saivagama....)

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[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear Mamata Dashji,

You are very right.  I also wonder why scholars like Abhinava Gupta and other scholars failed to identify the verses which correspond to the Shaivagamas. The Shaivagama verses are present in both the Original Bhagavad Gita of 745 verses and the common version of Bhagavad Gita of 700 verses, but it is the Original Bhgavad Gita of 745 verses, which points that out. That is why it is all the more necessary that scholars need to read the Original Bhagavad Gita of 745 verses.

Regards,

Sunil KB

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear Ajitiji,

I have followed the Gitamana verse as I don't find any reason as to why I should consider it to be spurious. If you or any other scholars have convincing reasons to believe  that the  Critical edition of the Mahabharata is only correct, I will like to be educated on that

I have already shared, with the BVP group, some time ago, the views of the editor of the booklet  brought by the Asiatic Society of Bombay which contains the  material of the  four lectures delivered by Dr. Sukhtankar, just before his death. The Editor of tha booklet does tell us that Dr, Sukhtankar himself  negated the the very methodolgy of the critical edition. Dr. Sukhtankar was the Chief Editor of the Critical edition and he laid down the guidelines for making the critical edition.

Regards,

Sunil KB

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[Vidyasankar Sundaresan]

Dear Sunil ji,

As you can see from the PDF file of Prof Kunjunni Raja's paper attached earlier in this thread, Vedanta Desika, one of the greatest scholars of the Srivaishnava tradition, has explicitly said, "na ca gItAshAstrasya shlokasankhyA vyAsAdibhir uktA. arvAcInat tv-avishvasanIyA." (The number of verses in the Gita shastra has not been given by Vyasa and others. It cannot be trusted, because it is a new development.) 

The absence of additional verses in the text that was taught, learned and memorized (adhyayana-prasiddhy-abhAva, according to Vedanta Desika) and the corresponding divergence in the written manuscripts is therefore a very old issue. You must acknowledge that your perspective on it is obviously diametrically opposite. That remains an issue, even though you set aside the critical edition of the Mahabharata, citing Prof. Sukthankar's alleged change of mind about it the day before he died. 

Therefore, it would help the discussion on this list if you can briefly explain the criteria you adopted to identify 45 additional verses in your own publication and where they occur, in relation to the well-established vulgate text. The numbers should not only conform to those given in the gItAmAna verse (even if it is of doubtful provenance), but scholars should have convincing reasons to believe that they are based on sound research methodology, including manuscript evidence and primary/secondary citations and a critical study of these different pieces of evidence.

Best regards,

VIdyasankar

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear Vidyashankarji,

Unfortunately for Vedantadeshika, he did not know that the north-Indian editions of the Mahabharata, have that Gitamana verse. More than a century ago, Wsternitz was one, who initated the move about the need to prepare the critical edition as the south-Indian edition  and the north -indian editions of the Mahabharata do not match. That to my mind was the beginning of the movement, which culminated in the critical edition, which however seems to have been negated later by Dr.Sukhtankar himself, if the editor of Asiatic Society of (Bombay) book on his lectures, is to be believed.

In another forum, I expressed my apprehension that Adi Shankara might not have written a bhashya on the Bhagavad Gita, as Prof. Karmarkar seems to have opined from linguisic study on the Shankarabhshya. He said that the Shanakara bhashyas, other that the Bbhashya on the Bhagavad gita, appeared to have come from a mature person.  If that is the case, the first Bhagavad gita bashya could have been written by Bhaskaracharya, and Abhinava Shankara could have refuted it verse by verse.

Regards,

Sunil KB

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

I would wait for you to explain your methodology and manuscripts you have consulted for edition of Gita with 745 verses

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

[Nagaraj Paturi]

                           ============================= Moderator's note===========================

No other post from Sri Sunil Bhattacharyaji shall be allowed in this thread, than the one which answers the following questions:

1.Did he have a manuscript or an earlier printed version of Bhagavadgita with 745 verses that he published as "the Original Bhagavadgita" ? If yes, what are the details/basis of authenticity of this manuscript or older printed version?

or

2. Did he create the 745 verses version himself by adding 45 verses to the 'vulgate' edition or did he omit a few and add some more verses to make the total number of verses to 745 ? If yes, what is the basis for the addition of 45 verses and what is /are the source(s) of these 45 verses or if he omitted a few, what is the basis for that , if he added some more after omitting a few, what is the basis for adding and what is /are the source(s) of the added verses ?

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[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear friends,

The title of the book,,written by me is as follows:

THE ORIGINAL BHAGAVAD GITA
Complete with 747 verses
(including all the rare verses)

Translation and commentary
by
Sunil Kumar Bhattacharjya

I was waiting for Ajitji to read my book as he wrote that he will try to find a copy in the library or get it from someone who has got a copy of that. But it seems that he has changed his mind and he desperately wants me to tell him where I got the 745 verses.

Anybody, who has purchased my book and read it, will clearly see that I have made it specifically clear in the book that all the 700 verses of the commonly available version of the  Bhagavad Gita are genuine and they are integral part of the Original Bhagavad Gita.

In the book I have also showed, with the help of columns and rows, that L presented the book as per the Gitamana verse, after restoring the missing verses of Lord krishna, and I marked the missing verses as "rare verses". 

The restored verses are common to all the other books claiming to be original Bhagavad Gita, except that their authors were confused and they  could not identify and remove the spurious verses in their versions, which made their vesions end up with more than 750 verses, which made their readers also confused as to which are the original 745 verses

I also want to make it clear that the Bhagavad Gita teachings were given by Lord Krishna and Maharshi Krishnadvaipayana Vedavyasa versified that more than five thousand years ago pand I don't think I am as competent as any of them to create any verse of the Bhagavad Gita.  I tried to contribute with my translation and commentary.

With great sadness i have to tell you I contacted several  Indian scholars within India and abroad to review my book but I did not get any response. Then I contacted a German Indologist and he gladly reviewed the book and permitted me include his foreword in the book.

Regards,

Sunil KB

.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Can we assume that your version is Dr.E. Vedavyas's  and  Gondal pith( Gujarat.)'s version minus the verses considered by you to be 'spurious'? 

Does your book or Dr.E. Vedavyas's  and  Gondal pith( Gujarat.)'s book contain the information on the source of the additional verses than the 700 verses in vogue ?

[Jsr Prasad]

So far, Sri Sunil ji confirmed that the 700 verses in vogue are 'endorsed,' but not rejected. However, he has yet to attend the latest questions raised by Sri Vidyasankar ji and Prof. Paturi ji. A bye-product question apparently emerges out of this discussion is, that the 'authority of critical editions' of Sanskrit texts.

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

I was not desperate and will never be desperate wanted to better understand your claims which you keeping making on every other BVP thread

 Thank you for your response and having given your methodology. When  I said I don't have or access to your book the question of reading your book doesn't arise. Good to know your views about Gita .As with a view its left to people who have made critical reading on your book to comment if what you say can have acceptability or not.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

From the link provided by Prof. Prasad, the book "Ancient Bhagavadgita" by Dr Ekkirala Vedavyas, IAS the following sentences could be seen:

Original Text of 745-verses with Critical Introduction. A miracle in history is the rediscovery of the complete text of the Original Bhagavad-Gita with all its 745 slokas,of which 45 were lost for over 2000 years from popular circulation. Thus the common man loosing the complete "The sermon of God". 

  This is now printed with the rediscovered slokas demarked for a comparative study and for the first time made available to the general public beyond the learned and the Research Scholar's desk.

It does not provide information about how the 'rediscovery' happened. 

May be the book has it, may be it does not have. 

I am looking for the info on Sri Gondal Pith's publication. 

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

BHAGAVAD GITA (745 VERSES, BHOJAPATRI GITA, GONDAL GITA)

Published 1937 and 1996 by Published by Shri Bhuvaneshwari Pith and Shri Bhuvaneshwari Prakashan, The Gondal Rasashala Aushadhashram, Gondal, Gujrat 360311, India. .

More Information is here

http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/1998-January/010305.html

The book was reviewed by Bedkar V.M. in ABORI 45, 1964 pp. 161-163

http://www.jstor.org/stable/41682451

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Bhojapatri Gita is the interesting word in this. 

We need to find more. Anyone who read the review by Bedkar V.M. in ABORI 45, 1964 pp. 161-163 ?

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[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Please see review by Bedkar V.M. in ABORI 45, 1964 pp. 161-163

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

[K S Kannan]

All the versions are compared and contrasted in columns in the book

A Critical Word-Index of the Bhagavad Gita  by PCDivanji

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Thank you Prof. Kannan. For those who would like to view this book its available here
http://asi.nic.in/asi_books/4463.pdf

and one can also see the postings at this site or Blog  a review by Anirudh

http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?12883-The-Original-Bhagavad-Gita-Complete-with-745-verses

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

[Jsr Prasad]

Prof. Bedekar says - "It must be however, pointed out that the claim of the Editor to have been able to discover and present the authentic BG of 745 verses rests on dubious foundations." He has totally rejected the claim referring to Schrader and authenticity of Kashmir recension - as already mentioned by Prof. Kannan. Strangely, Schrader (1930) opined that 14 additional verses were known to Sankara! Prof. Bedekar even refers to Prof.S.K. Belwalkar's article of 1940.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Now to Sri Sunilji,

Can you kindly directly answer the following? 

1. Is your edition based on this Gondal Pith edition or you had access to a source independent of and different from the one used or claimed to have been used by the compiler of the Gondal Pith book ?

2. Can you please substantiate your statement "Very few people know that more than twenty verses of the Bhagavad Gita are from Saivagama" pointing us to the more than twenty verses of the Bagavadgita that you had in mind while making this statement? 

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[sunil bhattacharjya]

No you cannot ssume that. Vedavyasa had mutilated the very first verse in his book and he selected most of  the rest of the verses from the Gondal pith. papers. However  Vedavyas checked whether any of the verses of the Bhagavad Gita correspond to the Agamas ,

Real good work was done by one of the past Swamijis of the Gondal pith, who brought out the original Bhagavad Gita from an old manuscript found in  Varanasi. Gondal pith published the details of that in some of the journals produced from the pith and then brought out their book. The verse mentioning the Agamas was very much there in their journals, but they did not include that in their version, probably thinking that there cannot be verses from the agamas.

Both Vedavyas and Gondal pith-swami  were not sure whether all the verses in the common edition of the Bhagavad Gita are genuine or not, but on my part I did not think anybody would have presented any fake verse in the common edition. My feeling is that Bhaskaracharya has most probably dropped the verses from the original Bhagavad Gita, which is non-sectarian, and by dropping the verses he could try to bring a vaishnavite bias in it. Earlier I was thinking of the possibility that both the vulgate and the original versions could have existed for long time before that.

I am glad that like Ajitji, you are also very keen to know how the original Bhagavad gita.  corresponding to the Gitamana verse has been presented for the first time. Nobody wants to do this type of thankless job.

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Not only that. Vedavyas should have admitted that his book contains more than 745 verses, which he did not. Personally, I don't think an honest man should do that. 

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear paturiji,

I have replied to your first question in the two previous mails and one for correction of typo., sent about an hour ago, but they are yet to be approved The question had to be in somewhat details,

Sorry, i missed your second question, which is

<2. Can you please substantiate your statement "Very few people know that more than twenty verses of the Bhagavad Gita are from Saivagama" pointing us to the more than twenty verses of the Bagavadgita that you had in mind while making this statement? >

As regards the second question. for several years I have been asking many people as to whether they know that there are agama verses in the Bhagavad gita, but none appeared to know that. BTW, did you find everybody knew that. If so I apologige I was wrong.

Sincerely,

Sunil KB

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear friends,

I have a request. I have written the book "Bhagavad Gita of 745 verses". Please count that in case any of you have the book, and check whether it corresponds to the Gitamana verse of the Mahabharata or not.  I am surprised that nobody seems have counted the verses in the Vedavyasa's edition and the Gondalpith edition to check whether they really correspond to the Gitamana verse or not.  Also if you have time and inclination, you may  also check the number of verses in all the editions (available to you) of the  vulgate bversion of the Bhagavad Gita, to see whether all the editions have exactly 700 verses or not.

Secondly, when the next edition comes out with additional materials, and of course the publisher will not agree to sell at the same old price, you may if you think necessary, browse through the book and satisfy yourself, before purchase.

Dr. Belvalkar could have been a Sanskrit scholar, as he was professor of Sanskrit in Banares Hindu University, and to me knowledge he edited the Bhshma parve, but I don't think that one should think thatDr.  Belvalkar could not have been wrong, now that very guidelines of the critical edition appears to be have been negated by the chief editor, Dr. Sukhtankar.exact  Somewhere (I do not recollect the work of Prof. Belvalkar)  I found him saying that he was born on the Gita Jayanti day, and seemed to have felt blessed with that and I wonder if he really checked the tithi of his birthday. If anybody knows the tithi and that birthday of that great personality,  he or she may kindly let me know that.

Regards,

Sunil KB

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Sorry, there were typos. Kindly read  <to me knowledge he edited the Bhshma parve>  as

<to my knowledge he edited the Bhshma parva>

Regards,

Sunil KB

[Nagaraj Paturi]

                                      ==============================Moderator's note=========================

This thread is being closed with this concluding note.

Sri Sunil Bhattacharyaji was given a full hearing. 

All that he is able to say is that the number of verses in his book correspond to the number mentioned in Gitamana verses. 

He did not tell the forum his source, methodology and the validity of either of them. 

He did not substantiate the claim that lead to the present thread by pointing the forum to any Saiva agama verses in Bhagavad Gita of any version or edition. 

He thinks that because people do not know that there are agama verses in Bh G, his statement "Very few people know that more than twenty verses of the Bhagavad Gita are from Saivagama' is valid. 

When I say "very few people know that there are flowers in the sky or hare has horns" , I can not say that since people do not know these , my statement is valid. My statement can not be valid unless and until I show or prove that there are flowers in the sky or hare has horns.

Sri Sunilji already said he has nothing more to say. 

Sorry for keeping you all waiting, with the hope that the reward for which all scholars wait, a new learning might result, all in vain. 

The thread is being closed.