Gayatri and Vyahritis
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Niranjan Ni
Jan 27, 2018, 2:42:41 PM1/27/18
to भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Dear List members:
1. Can you please explain the exoteric and esoteric significance of the vyahritis wrt the Gayatri mantra?
2. Why is there a difference between different schools of Vedas in the 3rd vyahriti?
3. Some say Svah and others use Suvah. And those who use Suvah use Ogum instead of Om as prefix for both Suvah and Sathyam.
Can some one elaborate?
4. On page 132 of the book Aghora By Robert Svoboda, there is a claim made that the Gayatri mantra being repeated is not the real Gayatri and that it (the real gayatri) has been hidden. It is said that this supposedly real Gayatri is so potent that it has to be perfomed immersed in water due to the extreme heat created. I know the present mantra is the savitri, but can some one comment about this claim?
Thanks
Niranjan
Nagaraj Paturi
Jan 28, 2018, 12:10:50 AM1/28/18
to Bharatiya Vidvat parishad
>On page 132 of the book Aghora By Robert Svoboda, there is a claim made that the Gayatri mantra being repeated is not the real Gayatri and that it (the real gayatri) has been hidden. It is said that this supposedly real Gayatri is so potent that it has to be perfomed immersed in water due to the extreme heat created. I know the present mantra is the savitri, but can some one comment about this claim?
---- This forum is not suitable for enquries because these "real Gayatri type claims are unverfiable.
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Nagaraj Paturi
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,
(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
Nagaraj Paturi
Jan 28, 2018, 12:40:29 AM1/28/18
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Nagaraj Paturi
Jan 28, 2018, 2:52:58 AM1/28/18
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Nagaraj Paturi
Jan 28, 2018, 2:55:56 AM1/28/18
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Nagaraj Paturi
Jan 28, 2018, 3:06:38 AM1/28/18
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Nityanand Misra
Jan 28, 2018, 9:07:49 AM1/28/18
to भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
On Sunday, 28 January 2018 01:12:41 UTC+5:30, Niranjan Ni wrote:
Dear List members:1. Can you please explain the exoteric and esoteric significance of the vyahritis wrt the Gayatri mantra?
व्याहृति
व्याहृति शब्द का अर्थ है “उक्ति” या “कथन”। “व्याह्रियते इति व्याहृतिः”। व्याहृति = वि + आ + √हृ + क्तिन्। “जो बोली जाए” वह व्याहृति है, अर्थात् “उक्ति” या “कथन”। यह सामान्य शाब्दिक अर्थ है। जैसा महाकवि कालिदास ‘कुमारसंभव’ में कहते हैं—
अनन्यभाजं पतिमाप्नुहीति सा तथ्यमेवाभिहिता भवेन।
न हीश्वरव्याहृतयः कदाचित्पुष्णन्ति लोके विपरीतमर्थम्॥ ३.६३ ॥
“भव (शिव) ने उनसे (पार्वती से) सत्य ही कहा, ‘तुम एकनारीव्रत पति प्राप्त करो’। निश्चित ही, ईश्वरों (महात्माओं) की व्याहृतियाँ (उक्तियाँ या वचन) संसार में विपरीत अर्थ का पोषण नहीं करती हैं।”
कालिदास का भाव यह है कि महात्माओं के वचन संसार में मिथ्या सिद्ध नहीं होते हैं।
लेकिन व्याहृति का एक विशेष शाब्दिक अर्थ भी है। ‘आहृति’ शब्द में भी “जो बोली जाए” यह अर्थ संभव है, क्योंकि आ + √हृ धातु का भी बोलना अर्थ है। 'भागवत पुराण के अष्टम स्कन्ध में तामस नामक मन्वन्तर में भगवान् के अवतार का वर्णन करते हुए शुकदेव परीक्षित् से कहते हैं “भगवान् ... हरिरित्याहृतः” (“हरि कहे/बोले जाने वाले भगवान्”)। टीका में श्रीधरस्वामी कहते हैं कि ‘आहृतः व्याहृतः’। अतः यदि ‘आहृति’ शब्दका भी “जो बोली जाए” यह अर्थ है तो ‘व्याहृति’ = वि + आहृति में वि उपसर्ग का “विशेष” अर्थ लेना उपयुक्त है। “विशिष्टा आहृतिः इति व्याहृतिः”। “जो विशेष आहृति है” या “जो विशेष रूप से बोली जाए” वह व्याहृति है।
मन्त्र शास्त्र में ‘भूः’, ‘भुवः’, ‘स्वः’, ‘महः’, ‘जनः’, ‘तपः’, ‘सत्यम्’ ये सात व्याहृतियाँ कही गयी हैं। इनमें ‘भूः’, ‘भुवः’, ‘स्वः’ ये तीन महाव्याहृतियाँ हैं। ये विशेष उक्तियाँ मन्त्रों के प्रारम्भ में विशेष रूप से बोली जाती हैं अतः इन्हें व्याहृतियाँ या महाव्याहृतियाँ कहा जाता है।
और भी कारण है कि ये विशेष उक्तियाँ ‘व्याहृति’ कहलाती हैं। बृहद् योगी याज्ञवल्क्य स्मृति में कहा गया है—
चतुर्दशविधं सर्गं दृष्ट्ववेदं व्याहृतं स्वयम्।
सप्त लोका भविष्यन्ति तस्मात् व्याहृतयः स्मृताः॥ ३.७ ॥
भूर्भुवःस्वस्तथा पूर्वं स्वयमेव स्वयम्भुवा।
व्याहृता ज्ञानदेहेन तेन व्याहृतयः स्मृताः॥ ३.९ ॥
“[सात लोकों में] चौदह प्रकार की सृष्टि देखकर यह (व्याहृति-सप्तक) स्वयं व्याहृत (=प्रकाशित) हुआ। [और] सात लोक [आगे] भी होंगे [यह व्याहृत अर्थात् प्रकाशित हुआ] इस कारण से ये व्याहृतियाँ कहलाती हैं। और प्रारम्भ में भूः, भुवः, और स्वः को स्वयं ब्रह्मा ने अपने ज्ञान रूपी शरीर से पहले कहा था (व्याहृत किया था), इस कारण से ये व्याहृतियाँ कहलाती हैं।”
तीन महाव्याहृतियाँ (भूः, भुवः, और स्वः) ब्रह्माण्ड के तीन लोकों अर्थात् पृथिवी, अन्तरिक्ष, और स्वर्ग का प्रतीक हैं। ये मनुष्य के स्थूल शरीर का भी प्रतीक हैं, भूः शरीर के निचला भाग की, भुवः मध्य भाग की, और स्वः ऊपरी भाग की प्रतीक हैं। मनुस्मृति में कहा है कि तीन महाव्याहृतियाँ तीन वेदों का सार हैं। मनु महाराज कहते हैं “प्रजापतिः वेदत्रयान्निरदुहद्भूर्भुवःस्वरितीति च” (२.७६) अर्थात् प्रजापति ने तीन वेदों से भूः, भुवः, और स्वः को दुहा (ऋग्वेद से भूः, यजुर्वेद से भुवः, और सामवेद से स्वः)। अतः तीन महाव्याहृतियाँ तीन वेदों की प्रतीक हैं। वेद परब्रह्म के ज्ञान का साधन हैं। वेद आध्यात्मिक प्रतीक भी हैं। शुक्लयजुर्वेद में एक सुन्दर मन्त्र है “ऋचं वाचं प्रपद्ये मनो यजुः प्रपद्ये साम प्राणं प्रपद्ये” (३६.१)। इसके अनुसार ऋग्वेद वाणी है, यजुर्वेद मन है, और सामवेद प्राण हैं। इस प्रकार भूः वाणी है, भुवः मन है, और स्वः प्राण है। तैत्तिरीय उपनिषद् की शिक्षावल्ली के अनुसार हृदय के भीतर जो पुरुष (भगवान्) हैं वे अग्नि में भूः के रूप में, वायु में भुवः के रूप में, सूर्य में स्वः के रूप में, और ब्रह्म में चतुर्थ व्याहृति महः के रूप में प्रतिष्ठित हैं। एतावता भूः, भुवः, और स्वः बाह्य जगत् में अग्नि, वायु, और सूर्य हैं और आन्तरिक जगत् में ब्रह्म की तीन प्रतिष्ठान हैं। अनेक लोगों में एक भ्रान्ति है कि तीन महाव्याहृतियाँ वैदिक गायत्री मन्त्र में जोड़ी गयी हैं। सत्य तो यह है कि गायत्री मन्त्र महाव्याहृतियों सहित शुक्लयजुर्वेद की वाजसनेयी माध्यन्दिन संहिता में प्राप्त है (मन्त्र ३६.३)।
इसी प्रकार सात व्याहृतियाँ सात लोकों की, शरीर के सात भागों की, और सात चक्रों की प्रतीक हैं। बाह्य जगत् में सात लोक हैं—भूर्लोक, भुवर्लोक, स्वर्लोक, महर्लोक, जनलोक, तपोलोक, और सत्यलोक; आन्तरिक जगत् में ते सात चक्र हैं—मूलाधार, स्वाधिष्ठान, मणिपूरक, अनाहत, विशुद्धि, आज्ञा और सहस्रार।
व्याहृति शब्द का अर्थ है “उक्ति” या “कथन”। “व्याह्रियते इति व्याहृतिः”। व्याहृति = वि + आ + √हृ + क्तिन्। “जो बोली जाए” वह व्याहृति है, अर्थात् “उक्ति” या “कथन”। यह सामान्य शाब्दिक अर्थ है। जैसा महाकवि कालिदास ‘कुमारसंभव’ में कहते हैं—
अनन्यभाजं पतिमाप्नुहीति सा तथ्यमेवाभिहिता भवेन।
न हीश्वरव्याहृतयः कदाचित्पुष्णन्ति लोके विपरीतमर्थम्॥ ३.६३ ॥
“भव (शिव) ने उनसे (पार्वती से) सत्य ही कहा, ‘तुम एकनारीव्रत पति प्राप्त करो’। निश्चित ही, ईश्वरों (महात्माओं) की व्याहृतियाँ (उक्तियाँ या वचन) संसार में विपरीत अर्थ का पोषण नहीं करती हैं।”
कालिदास का भाव यह है कि महात्माओं के वचन संसार में मिथ्या सिद्ध नहीं होते हैं।
लेकिन व्याहृति का एक विशेष शाब्दिक अर्थ भी है। ‘आहृति’ शब्द में भी “जो बोली जाए” यह अर्थ संभव है, क्योंकि आ + √हृ धातु का भी बोलना अर्थ है। 'भागवत पुराण के अष्टम स्कन्ध में तामस नामक मन्वन्तर में भगवान् के अवतार का वर्णन करते हुए शुकदेव परीक्षित् से कहते हैं “भगवान् ... हरिरित्याहृतः” (“हरि कहे/बोले जाने वाले भगवान्”)। टीका में श्रीधरस्वामी कहते हैं कि ‘आहृतः व्याहृतः’। अतः यदि ‘आहृति’ शब्दका भी “जो बोली जाए” यह अर्थ है तो ‘व्याहृति’ = वि + आहृति में वि उपसर्ग का “विशेष” अर्थ लेना उपयुक्त है। “विशिष्टा आहृतिः इति व्याहृतिः”। “जो विशेष आहृति है” या “जो विशेष रूप से बोली जाए” वह व्याहृति है।
मन्त्र शास्त्र में ‘भूः’, ‘भुवः’, ‘स्वः’, ‘महः’, ‘जनः’, ‘तपः’, ‘सत्यम्’ ये सात व्याहृतियाँ कही गयी हैं। इनमें ‘भूः’, ‘भुवः’, ‘स्वः’ ये तीन महाव्याहृतियाँ हैं। ये विशेष उक्तियाँ मन्त्रों के प्रारम्भ में विशेष रूप से बोली जाती हैं अतः इन्हें व्याहृतियाँ या महाव्याहृतियाँ कहा जाता है।
और भी कारण है कि ये विशेष उक्तियाँ ‘व्याहृति’ कहलाती हैं। बृहद् योगी याज्ञवल्क्य स्मृति में कहा गया है—
चतुर्दशविधं सर्गं दृष्ट्ववेदं व्याहृतं स्वयम्।
सप्त लोका भविष्यन्ति तस्मात् व्याहृतयः स्मृताः॥ ३.७ ॥
भूर्भुवःस्वस्तथा पूर्वं स्वयमेव स्वयम्भुवा।
व्याहृता ज्ञानदेहेन तेन व्याहृतयः स्मृताः॥ ३.९ ॥
“[सात लोकों में] चौदह प्रकार की सृष्टि देखकर यह (व्याहृति-सप्तक) स्वयं व्याहृत (=प्रकाशित) हुआ। [और] सात लोक [आगे] भी होंगे [यह व्याहृत अर्थात् प्रकाशित हुआ] इस कारण से ये व्याहृतियाँ कहलाती हैं। और प्रारम्भ में भूः, भुवः, और स्वः को स्वयं ब्रह्मा ने अपने ज्ञान रूपी शरीर से पहले कहा था (व्याहृत किया था), इस कारण से ये व्याहृतियाँ कहलाती हैं।”
तीन महाव्याहृतियाँ (भूः, भुवः, और स्वः) ब्रह्माण्ड के तीन लोकों अर्थात् पृथिवी, अन्तरिक्ष, और स्वर्ग का प्रतीक हैं। ये मनुष्य के स्थूल शरीर का भी प्रतीक हैं, भूः शरीर के निचला भाग की, भुवः मध्य भाग की, और स्वः ऊपरी भाग की प्रतीक हैं। मनुस्मृति में कहा है कि तीन महाव्याहृतियाँ तीन वेदों का सार हैं। मनु महाराज कहते हैं “प्रजापतिः वेदत्रयान्निरदुहद्भूर्भुवःस्वरितीति च” (२.७६) अर्थात् प्रजापति ने तीन वेदों से भूः, भुवः, और स्वः को दुहा (ऋग्वेद से भूः, यजुर्वेद से भुवः, और सामवेद से स्वः)। अतः तीन महाव्याहृतियाँ तीन वेदों की प्रतीक हैं। वेद परब्रह्म के ज्ञान का साधन हैं। वेद आध्यात्मिक प्रतीक भी हैं। शुक्लयजुर्वेद में एक सुन्दर मन्त्र है “ऋचं वाचं प्रपद्ये मनो यजुः प्रपद्ये साम प्राणं प्रपद्ये” (३६.१)। इसके अनुसार ऋग्वेद वाणी है, यजुर्वेद मन है, और सामवेद प्राण हैं। इस प्रकार भूः वाणी है, भुवः मन है, और स्वः प्राण है। तैत्तिरीय उपनिषद् की शिक्षावल्ली के अनुसार हृदय के भीतर जो पुरुष (भगवान्) हैं वे अग्नि में भूः के रूप में, वायु में भुवः के रूप में, सूर्य में स्वः के रूप में, और ब्रह्म में चतुर्थ व्याहृति महः के रूप में प्रतिष्ठित हैं। एतावता भूः, भुवः, और स्वः बाह्य जगत् में अग्नि, वायु, और सूर्य हैं और आन्तरिक जगत् में ब्रह्म की तीन प्रतिष्ठान हैं। अनेक लोगों में एक भ्रान्ति है कि तीन महाव्याहृतियाँ वैदिक गायत्री मन्त्र में जोड़ी गयी हैं। सत्य तो यह है कि गायत्री मन्त्र महाव्याहृतियों सहित शुक्लयजुर्वेद की वाजसनेयी माध्यन्दिन संहिता में प्राप्त है (मन्त्र ३६.३)।
इसी प्रकार सात व्याहृतियाँ सात लोकों की, शरीर के सात भागों की, और सात चक्रों की प्रतीक हैं। बाह्य जगत् में सात लोक हैं—भूर्लोक, भुवर्लोक, स्वर्लोक, महर्लोक, जनलोक, तपोलोक, और सत्यलोक; आन्तरिक जगत् में ते सात चक्र हैं—मूलाधार, स्वाधिष्ठान, मणिपूरक, अनाहत, विशुद्धि, आज्ञा और सहस्रार।
Niranjan Ni
Jan 28, 2018, 12:25:40 PM1/28/18
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Dear Sri Nagaraj:
thank you for all the links.
The book link does not work sir.
And what is the reason for some saying Om and some saying Ogum before Svah/Suvah and Satyam?
And why Svah vs Suvah?
Thanks,
Niranjan
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संकर्षण त्रिपाठी
Jan 28, 2018, 12:25:40 PM1/28/18
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अपि च
28 जनवरी 2018 को 7:37 pm को, Nityanand Misra <nmi...@gmail.com> ने लिखा:
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।। डॉ0 संकर्षण त्रिपाठी ।।
Niranjan Ni
Jan 28, 2018, 12:25:40 PM1/28/18
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Dear Sri Nityanand Misra,
Thanks for the write up but Sanskrit/Hindi is not my forte.
Can I trouble you to give the explanations in English please? The mantras etc can stay in devanagari.
Thanks,
Niranjan
संकर्षण त्रिपाठी
Jan 28, 2018, 12:25:41 PM1/28/18
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28 जनवरी 2018 को 7:37 pm को, Nityanand Misra <nmi...@gmail.com> ने लिखा:
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Nagaraj Paturi
Jan 28, 2018, 12:45:20 PM1/28/18
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Both Om Vs Ogm and Svah Vs Suvah are different conventions of pronunciation followed by different recitation traditions.
There are studies on such variations in the Veda reciting traditions.
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Niranjan Ni
Jan 28, 2018, 12:55:23 PM1/28/18
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Thank you sir.
अपि च
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Sivasenani Nori
Jan 28, 2018, 10:42:25 PM1/28/18
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Ogum (heard in the Taittiriya sakha) is Om with the anusvaara being elongated, on account of a savarNa like a sibilant or a hakaara following it (oguM suvaH, oguM satyam, saguMhitA etc.). In the maadhyandina sakha, the principle of elongation of the anusvaara is accepted but the pronunciation is different. The actual pronunciation ought to be like an elongated humming sound reverberating in a hollow space. There is a special symbol somewhat like the inversion of the Greek letter omega to represent it in Devanagari. In Telugu, it is being printed as ఓగ్ం (ओग्ं) but it should be noted that there is only an anusvaara following the vowel and that there is no consonant involved at all. If more information is required, there is a paper by Prof. M. Gopal Reddy in the journal of Dept of Sanskrit, around 2008. If you want, Sir, I can search for it and send it.
SuvaH and svaH are different forms of the same word like prithvI and prithivI.
Regards
N Siva Senani
Nagaraj Paturi
Jan 29, 2018, 12:44:25 AM1/29/18
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Thanks Dr Sivasenani-ji,
For more detailed references confirming that they are recitation conventions in different recitation traditions.
If it is not too much of work for you, can you please share Prof. Gopal reddy's publication?
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Nagaraj Paturi
Jan 29, 2018, 1:02:22 AM1/29/18
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Vyaahritis are lokas. Lokas are visualised as objective vertically upward physical levels. They ( lokas ) are deeper and deeper planes/levels/degrees of inward subjective experience of one's own inner world too.
dhee -> dhiyah has/have all these levels. Correspondingly, Savitr and its prochodana of dhiyah too have all these levels. Correspondingly dhyaana indicated by dheemahi too has all these levels.
Doing Om (after learning the proper procedure -if available, through the Guru-), opens the saadhaka into this entire (all degrees of the ) inner world. Uttering vyaahritis is just identifying the places visited during the journey.
Jaya Prakash
Jan 29, 2018, 2:01:04 AM1/29/18
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Hello Niranjan Ji,
Kindly find reply from Dr.Korada Subrahmanyam Sir.
नमो विद्वद्भ्यः
explain the main difference between the Gayatri Mantra with 3 Vyahruti and 7 Vyahruti
-- Vidvan Jaya Prakash
The question is related to कल्पशास्त्रम् - गृह्यसूत्रम् ---
Since there are three sentences in गायत्रीमन्त्र only three व्याह्रुतिs are taken as per गृह्यसूत्रम् ।
I shall take up उपनयनम् from आपस्तम्बगृह्यसूत्रम् and discuss the matter --
कल्पः - कल्प्यते समर्थ्यते मन्त्राणां प्रयोगः अत्र अनेन वा (घञ्) इति कल्पः ।
कल्पशास्त्रम् deals with the practical part of different rites - the procedure.
आपस्तम्बगृह्यसूत्रम् ( खण्डः 11 स् 8-11) with सूत्रतात्पर्यदर्शनम् of सुदर्शनाचार्य --
सू 8 -- पुरस्तात् प्रत्यङ्ङासीनः कुमारो दक्षिणेन पाणिना दक्षिणं पादम् अन्वारभ्य आह सावित्रीं भोः अनुब्रूहीति ।
आचार्य is facing east whereas कुमार is facing west , both of them face each other , कुमार holds आचार्य’s right foot with right hand and says आचार्य preach me गायत्री ।
सू 9 - तस्मा अन्वाह तत्सवितुरिति
आचार्य says - तत्सवितुर्वरेण्यम् ( etc , to be construed along with the next सूत्रम्)
सू 10 - पच्छोर्धर्चशः ततः सर्वाम्
Having stopped at the end of each पाद of the ऋक् , then stopping at the end of half of the ऋक् and finally stopping at the end of complete ऋक् --
1. तत्सवितुर्वरेण्यम् । भर्गो देवस्य धीमहि । धियो यो नः प्रचोदयात् ।
2. तत्सवितुर्वरेण्यम् भर्गो देवस्य धीमहि । धियो यो नः प्रचोदयात् ।
3. तत्सवितुः .... प्रचोदयात् ।
सू 11. व्याहृतीः विहृताः पादादिषु अन्तेषु वा तथा अर्धर्चयोः उत्तमायां कृत्स्नायाम्
Separated व्याहृतिs , viz भूः , भुवः , स्वः , these three are pronounced - before or after the three legs (of गायत्री) , or - before or after two legs, or pronounce the last व्याहृति , ie स्वम् , before or after the entire गायत्री ।
What about the ओंकार ( प्रणवः) ?
ओमिति ब्राह्मणः प्रवक्ष्यन्नाह ( तै उ 1-8)
ओंकारः स्वर्गद्वारं तस्मात् ब्रह्माध्येष्यमाणः एतदादि प्रतिपद्येत ( आप धर्मसू 1-13-6)
ओमभ्यादाने (पा सू )
प्रणवश्छन्दसामिव ( कालिदासः - रघु.)
But the above said procedures of pronouncing व्याहृतिs are not in practice in this part of the country - it is simply
ओं भूर्भुवस्सुवः । तत्सवितुः ....प्रचोदयात् ।
In मन्त्राधिकरणम् of पूर्वमीमांसा also it is concluded that whatever , in whatever form , is inherited from scholars as मन्त्र should be taken as प्रमाणम् ।
Therefore , for doing जप , गायत्रीमन्त्र would have three व्याहृतिs whereas in स्वाध्याय (वेदाध्ययनम्) it would have seven .
धन्यो’स्मि
Dr.Korada Subrahmanyam
Professor of Sanskrit, CALTS,
University of Hyderabad,
Ph:09866110741(M),91-40-23010741(R),040-23133660(O)
Professor of Sanskrit, CALTS,
University of Hyderabad,
Ph:09866110741(M),91-40-23010741(R),040-23133660(O)
Skype Id: Subrahmanyam Korada
Blog: Koradeeyam.blogspot.in
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Hello
Thank you & warm regards
U.N. Jaya Prakash Narayan Maiya,
IT Infrastructure Admin, IBM India Prv. Ltd,
Bangalore 560079.
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venkat veeraraghavan
Jan 29, 2018, 2:46:22 AM1/29/18
to भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Dear Shri Siva Senani ji:
Thank you for the clear distinction you made. Please please do post the paper by Shri. M. Gopal Reddy.
Can I trouble you further to include an audio of each way of pronouncing this Augm?
Thanks so much!!!
Venkat
Sivasenani Nori
Jan 29, 2018, 3:42:52 AM1/29/18
to भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Please find attached the paper by Sri M. Gopal Reddy.
Regarding the pronunciation, I pronounce it the way I learnt from my guru - i.e. the typical way of the Taittiriyas. I am not trained in the Madhyandina tradition.
Regards
N. Siva Senani
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venkat veeraraghavan
Jan 29, 2018, 4:41:15 AM1/29/18
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Thanks for the paper Sir.
You write //The actual pronunciation ought to be like an elongated humming sound reverberating in a hollow space.//
Is this like "Auumm"?
Is there anyone who can clarify the pronunciation wrt the Madhyandhina Shakha?
And any inputs on how and why these differences came about?
Normally the Augm is used only AFAIK in combination with Suvah and Sathyam.
I understand that Suvah is a different form of Svah, but doesnt it alter the tonal nature of the chandas etc? Although the chandas is not applied to the mahavyahrtis and only to the mantra proper. Any thoughts on this?
Thanks,
Venkat
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Sivasenani Nori
Jan 29, 2018, 9:38:01 AM1/29/18
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As you yourself observed Sir, the Vyahrutis are not a part of the mantra. So there is no impact on Chandas.
All pronunciation differences - be it in ऋ, ज्ञ or even श, ष and स - that we see are a result of Siksha Sastra not being followed correctly. In some cases, especially where separate letters, like ba for va, ja for ya, or la for ta, are used it is usually a case of there being a vikalpa, and different regions following different options. In the case of Anusvaara, Whitney (in his translation of the Taittiriya Pratisakhya) suggests that some (Vedic sakhas) view the anusvaara as the nasalisation of the preceding vowel, whereas others take anusvaara as a separate component (like in the Taittiriya sakha). All these matters were decided by Parishads of the learned in years gone by.
Regarding examples, we have many beyond oguM suvaH and oguM satyam. To cite from commonly recited sUktas: gaNapatiguM havaamahe, omIdaguM sarvam, oguM Somiti SastrANi SaguMsanti, teshaaguM sahasra yojaneva dhanvaani tanmasi, ekaviguMSatiSca me, trayoviguMSatiSca me, purusha evedaguM sarvam, ISvaraguM SaaSvataguM Sivamacyutam, ISvareeguM sarvabhootaanam taamihopahvaye Sriyam etc.
Regards
N Siva Senani
Dr.BVK Sastry(G-MAIL)
Jan 29, 2018, 12:57:02 PM1/29/18
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Namaste
1. Here is a typical case to explore and contemplate : Unless one keeps track of the issue very closely the significance of these discussions and references just get lost as a
‘ kaala-kshepa of some vaidikas on an obscure way of pronunciation’ where anyone can be as right as any other person or equally wrong !
2. The post exchange has brought out the dynamics of Script –Sound correlation for Veda Mantra ( here Ganapati mantra and Pranava). The things to take note being:
(a) How Devanagari Veda Scripting conventions have distracted the ‘ True (?! Mantra ) pronunciation of Vedic text.
(b) How to Study –Teach- Validate Samskrutha Ucchaaranam using Vedas scripted in NON-DEVANAGARI Scripts and Technology usage ! Especially in the mass published books of Veda from social institutions like Ramakrishna mission etc;.
3. The attachment ( Gopal Reddy) explained clearly the challenges of ‘ Anusvaara pronunciation’ and about the ‘ Shaastreeyataa’ part.
Sri Sivasenani Nori has drawn attention to the ‘ differences in tradition of ‘ Maadhyandina and Taittiriya’ and also the ‘ Telugu’ scripting convention where one
‘Consonant’ is introduced.
I am drawing attention to the UNICODE Page charts (http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1CD0.pdf ) and the Page maintained at
http://www.unicode.org/~emuller/southasia/vedic/ which presents Techno-Linguists version of Vedic Anusvaara, the difference between the Indian Government
proposal, the Technolinguists versions of scripting based on ‘ manuscript evidence’. ( I am attaching the file; Don’t know whether it will go through).
4. What seems to be Net outcome: Chaos and More Chaos with Total ‘mata bheda’ on what symbol represents what sound and the ‘ shuddha – patha’.
So each one seems to be ending with the stand –‘ asmdaachaarya padaaih yathaa kathitam….’ A recourse to NON-VERIFIABLE Proof
( Do we want to call it the alukika / paara- laukika pramaana ? because the people of yore are no more in this loka and we can not access ‘ para-loka – praamaanya’ ?
What seems to be the likely Social, Religion Practice impact of this ? Veda –Patha Bheda OR ashuddha –pathas proliferation which kills the ‘ Integrity of
Shadanga Saanga Veda’. ( If at all any residual life is left in Samskruth as the Classical language ? [ classical = dead, gone out of speaking, usage].
How then would justify the claim of ‘ unchanged Veda paramparaa by script or sound, for the Mantra –efficacy claims’ ? And future trends of this ??
What would Ganesha accept as the ‘ Beeja mantra’ according to Ganapathyatharva sheersha upanishat ?
Regards
BVK Sastry
From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sivasenani Nori
Sent: Monday, 29 January, 2018 2:13 PM
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Gayatri and
Vyahritis
Please find attached the paper by Sri M. Gopal Reddy.
Regarding the pronunciation, I pronounce it the way I learnt from my guru - i.e. the typical way of the Taittiriyas. I am not trained in the Madhyandina tradition.
Regards
N. Siva Senani
On 29 January 2018 at 13:16, venkat veeraraghavan <vvenk...@gmail.com> wrote:
Nagaraj Paturi
Jan 29, 2018, 1:06:47 PM1/29/18
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venkat veeraraghavan
Jan 29, 2018, 1:11:27 PM1/29/18
to भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Dear Sri Siva Senaniji:
// ba for va, ja for ya, or la for ta, are used it is usually a case of there being a vikalpa, and different regions following different options. In the case of Anusvaara, Whitney (in his translation of the Taittiriya Pratisakhya) suggests that some (Vedic sakhas) view the anusvaara as the nasalisation of the preceding vowel, whereas others take anusvaara as a separate component (like in the Taittiriya sakha). All these matters were decided by Parishads of the learned in years gone by.//
the agnimILe vs agnimIDe should probably be added to this list.
What I dont understand is the Shabda or sound came first and the script to represent the said sound next. There must have been some standards on which the script was to be parsed in literature?
And considering the fact that we have had unbroken oral traditions passed on, this shouldn't be the contentious issue it has turned into.
//Regarding examples, we have many beyond oguM suvaH and oguM satyam. To cite from commonly recited sUktas: gaNapatiguM havaamahe, omIdaguM sarvam, oguM Somiti SastrANi SaguMsanti, teshaaguM sahasra yojaneva dhanvaani tanmasi, ekaviguMSatiSca me, trayoviguMSatiSca me, purusha evedaguM sarvam, ISvaraguM SaaSvataguM Sivamacyutam, ISvareeguM sarvabhootaanam taamihopahvaye Sriyam etc. //
When I said only case of Augm for Suvah and Satyam I meant within the Gayatri mantra.
I am still not clear of the purpose behind this special usage for Suvah and Satyam in YV.
Kind Regards,
Venkat
N Siva Senani
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Nagaraj Paturi
Jan 29, 2018, 1:19:02 PM1/29/18
to Bharatiya Vidvat parishad
Sri Jaya Prakash-ji,
This post by Prof. Korada is part of the thread
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/bvparishat/gayatri$20mantra%7Csort:date/bvparishat/OplJHyeoL80/6qgAPXkSAwAJ
already reminded by me in the very early responses by me in the present thread.
The link to the specific post in that thread is
Its not wrong to post it here. Just for the sake of record.
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