From Dr. N.R.Joshi (USA)
gira...@juno.com
Respected Scholars, Namaskar!
I went beyond Puraanas
Dr. R. N. Iyengar, "I am not suggesting that there may be nothing, but no serious effort has been made by
traditional Sanskrit scholars about investigating ‘historical/ cultural’ links other than stating what is said in the Puranas."
I have made such efforts to find evidence of Mahabharat from countries outside of the subcontinent using the available archaeological information from those countries. I am not involved in fixing the date of the war from epic. I repeatedly asked question to Indian scholars, "Who were in the countries outside of the subcontinent when the epic was fought.?" I discussed this matter on this list in 2009. If daitys, danavas, asuras, gandharvas, devas, apsaras, kinneras were all within the subcontinent in the ancient time, then who were living in the world? To the best of my knowledge I never received satisfactory answer. So I researched the ancient history of those countries. I showed my power point presentation in USA as well as in India. My opinion-Indian people are very much fixed on certain ideas like Kaliyuga. It might be true. However one should try to collect information from the world outside of India. It helps in understanding of the ancient Indian history. Scriptures are no substitute for research.
Using my knowledge of physical properties of articulated sounds, I published the paper on mystic sphota that pops up several time in Sanskrit semantics. The title of the paper is , "Sphota doctrine in Sanskrit semantics is demystified." It is published in the Annals (2008) of Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, Pune. Thanks. N.R.Joshi
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hn bhat
Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R.
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rniyengar
I recollect having corresponded with you on the IC-Yahoo group. I
would like to read your paper on SphoTa if you can send a soft copy or
put it in the file section. Similarly your ppt on MB I like to see....
The number of persons devotedly working in India on science or
scientific content in Sanskrit literature (aka history of science) is
a handful. This group is made of persons with varied backgrounds who
spend time on their narrow interest and have little time to discuss
with others. The challenges are too strong and I feel cannot be
concluded by one or two persons. For example a titan like Kosambi
notwithstanding his Marxist background has very cogently argued why
Krishna should be accepted as historical. Pure Sanskritists and
traditional Pandits do not understand scientific methods and run of
the mill indologists in India have no idea of what archaeology as
science is! [Politicians meddle in the affairs further to suit their
own vote banks. Leftists don’t want Kosambi to be quoted loudly about
his support for searching Vedic links in Indus seals. Rightists want
to see that MB is dated to 3102 BC or earlier.] While individual
research going to the depth of a question is very essential, some type
of consolidation by a committed group of dispassionate non-partisan
scholars is required. This is totally missing in India. TIFR and
Bombay University organized brainstorming on archaeo-astronomy for two
years 2008 and 2009. The exercise has now stopped due to some internal
difficulties. This is one reason why many interesting thoughts and
results go without proper criticism/appreciation/recognition.
About your MB post regarding mention of Antioka and Roma in the Sabha
parvan, my approach is to treat such chapters as later layers. I am
convinced the above cities were not known to Indian authors before
~4th Cent BC. This by itself is no proof that MB is too late.
Orthodox tradition accepts there are three layers in MB. The subject
becomes too emotional for some group of people if the text is
dissected, since Krishna as VishNu is mentioned in some of the Parvans
which obviously could not have formed the deepest layers. Search for
ancient history can not ignore compatibility with geography. However I
have not looked at geography outside greater India in the context of
MB. Within Indian boundary itself there are sufficient difficulties!
The most important being the location of Dvaravati and the linking of
Krishna’s city to Sarasvati, Prabhasa and the Rigvedic IriNa. Please
see the following articles published in the Journal of Geological
Society of India.
abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/maha/dwaraka/
http://eprints.iisc.ernet.in/15391/1/rni-bpr-iriNa.pdf
Thanks
RN Iyengar
gira...@juno.com
Respected Scholars, Namaskar!
Dr. Subrahmanyam Korada is invaluable treasure of knowledge. I tremendously benefit reading his postings. I am reading two of his books-Theories of Language and Four Vrittis of PaaniNi. The first book is written in easy to read style. He has brought together and explained with consistency many concepts and definitions used by Sanskrit pundits.
Dr. S. Korada, I never understood exactly what is meant by "Aakritivaada", its source, use or application. I will appreciate if you take time from your busy schedule to explain about it. This request is for other scholars too. Thanks. N.R.Joshi.
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gira...@juno.com
Respected Scholars, Namaskar!
Vyutpatti of the word “Asura”
I do not remember why the member asked the etymology of the word “Asura”. Now we got the etymology from two Sanskrit scholars. Asuras were present at the time of Mahabharat and even before that. Krishna killed Narakasura. Bheema killed Hidimbasura and Bakaasura. Mother of Ghatotkaca was Hidimbaa. The question is whether these asuras were within the Indian subcontinent or outside assuming that they were people like any other people of the ancient world.
It was written on this list (Dr.Arun Sept7, 2010) that the ancient country Assyria from the Middle-East was called Asura in Puranas. My research shows Asuras mentioned in Puranas had no connection with Assyria. This is simply based on phonetic similitude. The history of Assyria was well researched. It was also written by Dr. Arun that Nineve was destroyed by the king of Medes which was east of Indus. It is true that Nineve was destroyed by Medes but they were never in the known history and in the ancient history east of Indus (within the borders of the subcontinent).
Cyrus the Great (Cyrus II) established the Persian Empire in 546 BC. This empire was known as the Medo-Persian Empire. Medes was the satrapi no one of the empire. Medes were located from the beginning in the western Iran, roughly over the area now called Kurdistan. Medes were the strongest people of the Persian Empire. The name Abhyavarti Chayaman was associated with the ancient history of Vaikarta province (Hyrkania-modern name) of the eastern Iran. Persian Empire spread from Egypt to lower Sindhu River in the known history (546 BC to 326 BC) until it was destroyed by Alexander. The Persian king Daurius III fighting with Alexander sent message to Indians in Gandhar to come to his help with elephants. Indians did not go and just waited until Alexander reached at the doorstep of Gandhar. There is no record of any Indian king extending himself beyond Gandhar to the west before 326 BC. Candragupta went to Afghanistan after 326 BC. This is the only one example.
There is no point calling people outside of the subcontinent Mlenccha or Vris’la. They had empires in the known history. On the other hand India kept losing her land all the time to the outsiders after Candragupta. So there is no point in boasting that kings from Puranas conquered the whole world.
On the other hand my research has established that certain personalities and events from Mahabharat had connections to outside of the subcontinent. Example: Bheema killed Kirmir rakshasa, His descendants moving towards west were known by the name Cimmerians. These were giants.They reached Ukraine. One can get this information from the ancient history (Cimmerians-Sarmatians Era of Ukraine). These Sarmatians were related to Amazons (Ladies kingdom) described in Mahabharat. If one trusts Puranas, then one has to co-relate the information to the history of the outside world. If I were wrong, please give us new information you have so we can grow in knowledge together. Thanks. N. R. Joshi.
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hn bhat
--
अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।
ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः।
निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)
gira...@juno.com
Respected scholars, Namaskar!
War of Indra with Namuchi from Rigveda
First I would like to thank all scholars participating in discussions on "Asura" for offering valuable information.
On this list last year and in the early part of this year I discussed the War of Indra with Namuchi. In that war Namuchi had Abalaa senaa (Lady soldiers). Indra easily defeated them and captured two lady soldiers dear to Namuchi. My research shows that Indra's kingdom (if one would like to call Svarga or Suvarga) was north east of Afghanistan. The ancient Ladies kingdom (Mummies are on display in Houston museum at present) was also in the same area. This was confirmed by another Aachaarya on this list by giving other references. The ancient Indians used to be friends of Indra while the ancient Iranians had frequent wars with Indra. Please remember the ancient Iranians are not Asuras. They were related to the ancient Indians. Indra's land was beyond the northern boundary of the ancient Iranian land. It was foreign country to the ancient Iranians. They called it "Paraa-desha" . All this comes in my book on Mahabharat-History or Myth/"
Now Krishna had war with Indra on Pariyaatra mountain. My research shows this mountain is now called Pamirs. If you bring Pariyaatra mountain within India, then you bring Indra within India too and also all Devas and Asuras, Gandharvas, Yakshas etc. Then nothing makes sense.
If we assume Indra, Varun, Mitra, Naasatya were somewhere in the heaven located far away from the earth, then how could we explain war between Indra and Krishna? We have to admit that it happened in the sky or admit that is just a story.
Indians had Apsaras in heaven. Germans called them Valkyries (please pardon me if spelling is not correct).
Duryodhana sat for prayopos'ana after released from the captivity of Gandharva soldiers of Raja Dharmaraja living in Dvaitavana.(No archaeological evidence of Dvaitavana in the subcontinent) . He could not digest insult. Asuras came from the west and gave him support and inflated his ego again. They wanted the destruction of Mahabharat Empire.
18000 mud tablets in one place and 22000 mud tablets in another place were discovered 150 years ago in excavations in the Middle-East. One cannot afford to ignore the connection of the ancient India to the Middle-East. Hindu Puranas and scriptures could be complementary but they are not substitutes for archaeological discoveries. I presented some of this information in my lecture at BORI Pune. Many scholars in the audience said you told us something we never heard before. Please pardon me for long posting. Please correct me if I were wrong so we grow in our knowledge together. Thanks. N.R.Joshi
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Dr. S. Ramakrishna Sharma
>Dvaitavana.(No archaeological evidence of Dvaitavana in the subcontinent)
which spread over the banks of river Sarasvati.(Mbh.III.24-25.)" quoted from page 27.
The book,Political History of Ancient India<From the Accession of Parikshit to the Extinction of the Gupta Dynasty>
by Hem Chandra Raychaudhury, Forgotten Books, also refers to The Satapatha Brahmana(XIII.5.4.9) which mentions
a Matsya king named Dhvasan Dvaitavana who celebrated the horse sacrifice near Sarasvati.
Encyclopaedic Dictionary of Vedic Terms, Volume I, by Parameshwaranand(Swami) refers to the same as above
in the context of the Matsyas.
"The Matsyas in the epic period lived to the west of the Surasenas of Mathura. Earlier, the Satapatha Br. refers to a king
of the Matsyas, named Dhavasan Dvaitavana(XIII.5.4.9), as he ruled the territory near the lake Dvaitavana(Ibid."With it (horse-sacrifice),
indeed, Dvaitavana, the king of the Matsyas sacrificed where this lake is situated".) quoted from the page 398.
Perhaps there seems to be some misreading regarding the name of the king as Dvaitavana! And both the books seem to make the same (mis)reading? With a minor spelling mistake(?)
How to determine the period of Satapatha Brahmana reference and the Mahabharata reference?
Certainly archeological evidence, if any, will be an eye opener.
--
अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।
ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः।
निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)
--
Aangirasa/Dr.S.Ramakrishna Sharma. M.A.,Ph.D.(Eng.Lit.),Ph.D.(Sanskrit.).
Dr. Yadu Moharir
| Dear Dr. Joshi: I sincerely request Dr. Joshi to use the the Subject line for indicating the specific topic under discussion rather than "From Dr. N.R. Joshi (USA)". Personally, it is impossible for me to follow the topic from archives at a later date and have to go through opening several communication with the same thread. If Dr. Joshi is communicating his personal information, travel pan. lectures, ...etc., then above subject line would work. Thank you Yadu |
S P Narang
From: Dr. S. Ramakrishna Sharma <d.ramak...@gmail.com>
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, September 26, 2010 6:20:11 AM
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} From Dr. N.R.Joshi (USA)
S P Narang
centered on the defeat of Indra and the location was between Kashmir and Balakh
: most probably the Afghanistan. It requires further investigation on the basis
of internal evidence in the light of history of Saivism, Vaisnavism, Indra-ism
and the Saktism coming stronger. Regards, spnarang
Sept 25, 2010
Respected scholars, Namaskar!
--
Dr. S. Ramakrishna Sharma
"नदीपुळिनमाश्रित:" the river bank on which Suaratha Maharaja and the Vaishya
did penance, having cast an Idol of Devi using sand and clay,(both these, viz.
the location and Idol are located according to the Stala-Puranam of Polali Temple,
near Mangalore on the banks of the sacred river mentioned in Sri Saptashati.)
Besides, the Gold Crown weighing a few kilograms, offered by Suratha is preserved
in the Temple; used during Festival days only.
The picture of the clay-sand Idol is attached herewith.
धन्यो'स्मि
--
Aangirasa/Dr.S.Ramakrishna Sharma. M.A.,Ph.D.(Eng.Lit.),Ph.D.(Sanskrit.).
Dr. S. Ramakrishna Sharma
of the Mahabharata. If discussions are already available in this Group, the page/post
links may be provided.
The free download of the work by Dr.Vartak is here.
________________________________________________
Files and Pages facility will no longer be available in Google Groups
as per latest announcement by Google. Hence it is better to
go trough the information and instruction provided. This is for the Group
Managers' attention.
__________________________________
Generally history books omit the Indian names and are based on old Gazetteers, inscriptions, if available and the old text books on history. For the details in the Mahabharata: Sorensen: Index of the Mahabharata is complete and important. Bharavi borrowed from the MBH. Regards, spnarang
--
Aangirasa/Dr.S.Ramakrishna Sharma. M.A.,Ph.D.(Eng.Lit.),Ph.D.(Sanskrit.).
Arun
of Devas (Sura) and Asuras from Vedic literature. It has 3 or 5
meanings as understood in Taittiriya Upanishad, Shiksha valli-
(1) Adhijyotisha-30 zones of solar system measured in exponential
scale of Dhama with base 2 are zones of Devas (Rigveda 10/189/3).
Dhamas are double of previous starting from earth as first
(Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, 3/3/2)-
त्रिंशद्धाम वि-राजति वाक् पतङ्गाय धीमहि । प्रति वस्तोरहद्युभिः ॥ (ऋक्,
१०/१८९/३)
सदृशीरद्य सदृशीरिदु श्वो दीर्घं सचन्ते वरुणस्य धाम ।
अनवद्यास्त्रिंशतं योजनान्येकैका क्रतुं परियन्ति सद्यः ॥ (ऋक्, १/१२३/८)
मा छन्दः तत् पृथिवी, अग्निर्देवता .. (मैत्रायणी संहिता, २/१४/९३, काठक
संहिता, ३९/३९)
...द्वात्रिংशतं वै देवरथाह्न्यन्ययं लोकस्तং समन्तं पृथिवी
द्विस्तावत्पर्येति ताং समन्तं पृथिवीं द्विस्तावत्समुद्रः पर्येति.....
(बृहदारण्यक उपनिषद् ३/३/२)
There are 3 Dhamas within earth. For a total of 30+3 dhamas of solar
system, there are 33 Devas-Prana of each dhama. Their symbols are 33
letters from K to H. Sanskrit script is a nagar of Devas in symbols,
so it is called Deva-nagari. Region beyond solar system is dark
background of galaxy called Apah of Varuna.
(2) Adhidaivika-Original matter of Universe was Rasa (Taittiriya
Upanishad 2/7/2). Out of that, only ¼ was used for creation. Remaining
¾ was unused (Purusha sukta, 3,4). Creative energy/matter is deva.
Unproductive is Asura-generally dark. Even if it is bright, its level
is not more than the background. Within solar system, prana of each
zone is Deva. Obstructions are of 3 types-Vritra=circling or
delimiting influence zone, Bala (bending) and Namuchi= separating
surface. Thus, Asuras are 3 times the number of Devas, and creation is
only from ¼ part.
(3) Adhibhautika-Devas had 3 lokas o which they gained supremacy in
time of Vamana= Vishnu (about 15800 BC as per Mahabharata, vana Parva
23/8-10-Karttikeya calendar, south motion of sun (rains) and year-both
starting from Dhanishtha). 3 lokas of Indra were roughly Russia, China
(middle kingdom) and India. Ruler (Agni = Agri) of India was called
Bharata as he was feeding the world-repeated by all Greek-Roman
historians about India. China retained the original script of
Brihaspati-called Shabda-parayana-explanation of each word. Other
regions adopted grammar of Indra-Marut which broke words in basic
sounds (Varna and Akshara) and root verbs. It separated (Vyakrita), so
it was called Vyakarana-(Rk 10/71/1, Taittiriya samhita, 6/4/7,
Mahabhashya 1/1/1, Maitrayani samhita 4/5/8, Nyaya manjari etc.).
Till today, there are about 3000 Russian words with same meanings as
it was in Vedas-listed by late Pt. Chandrashekhar Upadhyay in 1931.
Vasu has been used for 8 in astronomy-it is used with that meaning
only in Russian, not in any current Indian language.
(4) Adhyatmika-Positive tendencies for useful work, improving physical/
mental ability are Diava and opposite are Asura-summarized in Daiva-
Asura sampad Vibhaga yoga of Gita, chapter 16.
(5) Adhi-vidya or Adhiyajna-Yajna is production of useful objects
(Gita 3/10). It is always done in cycles. The natural time cycles are
day, month and year-whose measure is called Janya-kala in Surya-
siddhanta (1/10) as it is measure of production cycle time.
The civilization, which produced its own needs and never tried to
capture others was called Devas (see opening comments about India in
Herodotus, Megasthenes, Solinus, Pliny etc). Persons who captured
property of others by war, trade practices etc are Asura.
It is necessary to read original Sanskrit texts also, instead of
merely copying western manipulations. Indra has always been called
lord of east and words related to him are still used in eastern part
of India-from Orissa to Thailand. He has controlled unruly Pak daityas
in west, so he was given title of ‘Paka-shasana’ by Brahma. The place
where he showed his power was Shakra (Sakkhara district in Pakistan,
Hakkara river). There were 14 main Indras listed in Narada purana etc.
Modern name of Pakistan is just a coincidence. Land adjacent to sea
was called Pak (Pak strait) and its manager was Reddy. Naval chief
also was called Suparna-nayaka (Suvanna-naik in Vijayanagara)-
एकः सुपर्णः स समुद्रमाविवेश स इदं भुवनं वि चष्टे ।
तं पाकेन मनसापश्यमन्तितस्तं, माता रेऴ्हि स उ रेऴ्हि मातरम् ॥ (ऋग् वेद
१०/११४/४)
Archeological evidence is only a corroboration-not a contradiction. If
somebody really wants to do research, he should be happy that events
described in Vedas are still seen in India and adjacent lands. He
should not try to counter them in name of false evidence. Even in
normal course, a house is broken in 100-200 years. That does not mean
that it never existed. House of Shankaracharya is not seen now, it is
sufficient proof that there was no person of his name as the evidence
of Dvaita-vana has been given. Oxford exercise was solely for
destruction of Vedic culture and history as clearly declared in the
aim of Boden Chair in 1831, but loyalists blindly copy them without
even daring to see any original line of Sanskrit-Arun
subrahmanyam korada
Namo vidvadbhyah
The question of AkrtivAda has to be discussed taking NyAya, Vaisesika, MImAmsA , VyAkarana , Bauddha, Jaina, Nirukta and VedAnta . The order of Darsanas is important .
AkrtivAdah (MImAmsA only) means – only akrti , i.e. jAti , is expressed as vAcyArtha by a Sabda thru AbhidhA , not vyakti .
Due to SamavAya / nAntarIyakatva vyakti is later denoted but thru LaksanA . Abhidha , having denoted the
Visesana (jAti) becomes feeble and cannot reach visesyam(vyakti) .
Derivation - Akriyate vyaktih anayA iti Akrtih , PramAnam ?
‘JAtimevAkrtim prAhuh vyaktirAkriyate yayA I sAmAnyam tacca pindAnAm ekabuddhinibandhanam II’ – KumArila in AkrtivAda , SlokavArtikam(3) , Akriyate = nirUpyate . So Akrti , JAti , SAmAnyam are synonyms .
Problem : gauh na hantavyA – here gauh means ‘ the gamut of cows on earth’ , i.e. jAti .GAmAnaya – here gAm means a cow individual , i.e. vyakti .
Origin and development :
NyAya - -
‘jAtyakrtivyaktayastu padArthah’ (nyAyasU. 2-2-67) – is the AksapAdasUtram which says that all the three , i.e. jAti, Akrti and vyakti are combinely to be taken as the meaning of a Sabda . Just like – sahasram gAvah, gargAh satam dandyantAm, ‘iti hetuh tadudbhave’, due to ‘SabdasaktisvabhAva’ (Panktirvimsati .. PAnini 5-1-59) it is ‘samudAyaparisamApti’ .
‘VyaktirgunavisesAsrayo mUrtih’(nyA 2-2-68) – mUrtih = mUrchanti avayavA atreti mUrtam dravyam, na tu sarvam . Vyajyate it vyaktih .
‘Akrtih jAtilingAkhyA’(nyA 2-2-69) – niyatAvayavasamyogah Akrtih . JAti and jAtilingam.
‘Mrt, suvarnam, rajatam’ etc. – in such cases jAti is not ‘AkrtivyangyA’ , i.e. these words express jAti and vyakti but not Akrti .
NyAyavArtikam – Akrtau niyamo na jAtau, sarvAkrtirjAtilingamiti, na punah sarvA Akrtih jAtyA lingyate .
TAtparyatIkA – sironAsikAlalAtacibukadInAm siro’vayavAnAm vyUhA manusyatvajAtilingam sira Acaste . na punah sarvA jAtih AkrtyA lingyate iti , mrtsuarnarajatAdikA hi rUpavisesavyangyA jAtih, na AkrtivyangyA, brAhmanAdijAtistu yonivyangyA, AjyatailAdInAm jAtistu gandhena vA rasena vA vyajyate .
‘SamAnaprasavAtmikA jAtih’(nyA 2-2-70) – the cause of jnAna such as ‘idamapi dravyam, idamapi dravyam’ etc in different vyaktis it is called ‘sAmAnyam’ , dravyatvAdi , the same is called ‘parA jAtih’ (VArtikam says that this SUtram is not perfect , there will be problem in places like ‘pAcaka’, where there is pAcakatvajnAnam without jAti)
‘Gotvam ‘ generates ‘abheda’ among govyaktis but causes ‘bheda’ from ‘asva’ etc , so gotvAdikam is ‘sAmAnyavisesa, and the same is called ‘aparA jAtih’
‘SAmAnyam dvividham proktam param cAparameva ca ‘ (BhAsAparicchedah-8).
The first SUtra is commented by VAtsyAyana - yadA bhedavivaksA visesagatisca tadA vyaktih pradhAnam, angam tu jAtyAkrtI, yadA bhedah avivaksitah sAmAnyagatisca tadA jAtih pradhAnam angam tu jAtyAkrtI, tadetat bahulam prayogesu .
In the sentence – gauh na hantavyA, ‘gauh’ – means gotvajAti ,i.e. any cow (all cows)on earth.
In the sentence – ‘gAmAnaya’, ‘gauh’ means govyakti, i.e. a cow individual .
For Akrti, ‘pistakamayI gauh’ is offered as an example (PrasannapadA on NyAyabhAsyam)
Finally , the ‘form’ (avayavasamsthAnam) is meant by the term ‘Akrti’ .
Vaisesika –
In ‘Uddesaprakarana’ of PrasastapAdabhAsyam, the author says – anuvrttipratyayakAranam sAmAnyam , tatra param sattA , mahAvisayatvAt, dravyAdyaparam alpavisayatvAt , tacca vyAvrtterapi hetutvAt sAmAnyam sadvisesAkhyamapi bhavati (see NyAyakandalI of Sreedharabhatta also) .
Generally when we say jAti it is gotvAdi and it is inseparable from vyakti due to SamavAyasambandha (ayutasiddhayoh sambandhah).
Nityam ekam anekAnugatam sAmAnyam – is the definition offered by NaiyAyikas and the same is generally acceptable .
In other words, it is ‘avaccedakatvam’ , i.e. anyUnAnatiriktavrttidharmah -
The term ‘avaccheda’ – is used in the sense of ‘niscaya’ (samyogo viprayogasca…sabdArthasyAnavacchede visesasmrtihetavah – VakyapadIyam –Vakya) .
The gotvam , i.e. jAti , separates a ‘gauh’ from the rest of the things in the universe and due to gotvam only it is decided that it is a gauh .
GotvAvacchinnah gauh . The meaning of ‘tva’ and ‘tal’ will be discussed under VyAkaranam .
Thus as the time passed there remained only two things – jAti and vyakti .
Although the term ‘Akrti’ is used, it lost its original sense and became a synonym of jAti .
In other words ‘AkrtivAda’ is nothing but ‘jAtivAda’ .
MImAmsA –
‘Akrtistu kriyArthatvAt’ (JaiminisU 1-3-33) – is the JaiminisUtram that is the SiddhAnta - since acquiring a ‘sthandila’that resembles a ‘syenAkrti’- is the purpose of ‘cayanakriyA’ , jAti only is the meaning of a padam –
Akrti only is sabdArtha but not vyakti . In case vyakti is the sabdArtha then the sentence – syenacitam cinvIta – does not have any meaning as it is not possible to aquire / generate a syenavyakti thru cayanakriyA . So the sentence becomes null and void .
Here the karanavyutpatti , i.e. syenaiscIyate iti syenacit , is not proper , rather it should be ‘cayanena syenam cinotIti syenacit’ following PAnini – 3-2-92 , karmanyagnyAkhyAyAm.
The SAbdabodha is – istakAbhih cIyamAnam syenasadrsam cayanena sampAdayet , and this is possible only if the meaning of syenapada is Akrti .
You may argue that – Akrti is visesanam and vyakti is visesyam and as such they are two different ‘padArthas’ (meanings of padas) . The padam which denotes ‘Akrti’ does not denote ‘vyakti’ and the one which denotes ‘vyakti does not denote ‘Akrti’ . Therefore , it can be decided that following the ‘prakaranam’(context) eitheris ‘pradhAnam’ and the other is ‘guna’ ---- this does not hold water –
(refutation of AksapAda and Patanjali) GunapradhAnabhAva is possible iff (if and only if)
both jAti and vyakti are denoted by the same word simultaneously – if Akrti is denoted vyakti is not denoted and vice versa . Akrti is nityasambaddha with vyakti and as soon as the Akrti is known the vyakti is also known (AkrtivAda means Akrti is vAcyArtha and vyakti is laksyArtha).
By and large , it is immaterial for us as to whether GunapradhAnabhAva is there or not and it does not in any way affect our argument – a thing which is gunabhUta is not denoted by MukhyavyApAra, i.e. AbhidhA and there will be GaunavyApAra in such cases .
‘TadarthatvAt prayogasyAvibhAgah’ (JaiminisU 1-3-35) – since words like ‘vrIhIn’ etc. denote vrIhivyaktis there will not be any problem in cases like ‘ vrIhIn proksati’, i.e.as vrIhijAti has got connection with vrIhivyaktis , the latter is denoted thru LaksanA .
In other words, although the jAti, which is visesana, is known in the first place, since it cannot sustain the isolation, denotes vyakti, the visesya, thru LaksanA.
Therefore, Akrti(jAti) is the meaning of gauh , asvah etc. Here is KumArila (TantravArtikam) –
visesyam nAbhidhA gacchet ksInasaktirvisesane I
AnantyavyabhicArAbhyAm saktyanekatvadosatah I
na vyaktAvAkrtau tu syAt sarvametatsamanjasam II
anvayavyatirekAbhyAm ekarUpapratItitah I
Akrteh prathamam jnAne tasyA evAbhidheyatA II
vyaktyAkrtyorabhedAcca vyavahAropayogitA I
lingasamkhyAdi sambandhah sAmAnAdhikaranyadhIh II
sarvopapannA ca yatah tasmAttattraiva kalpayet I
VyAkaranam –
PAnini takes up both – here is MahAbhAsyam (PaspasA) –kim punarAkrtih padArthah Ahosvit dravyam ? ubhayamityAha , katham jnayate ? ubhayathA hyAcAryena sUtrAni pathitAni I Akrtim padArtham matvA ‘jAtyAkhyAyamekasmain bahuvacanamanyatarasyAm’ (1-2-58) ityucyate I dravyam padArtham matvA ‘sarUpAnAmekasesa ekavibhaktau’(1-2-64) ityekasesa Arabhyate I
At the outset of MahAbhAsya Patanjali , under ‘atha gaurityatra kassabdah’ says –
Yattarhi bhinnesvabhinnam chinnesvacchinnam sAmAnyabhUtam sa sabdah? netyAha, AkrtirnAma sA . This is the siddhAnta and here sAmAnyam / Aakrti (jAti) means DNA(nucleic acid) .
The above definition offered by Patanjali is on a par with ‘natyamekamanekAnugatam’ .
Here NAgesa comments – Akrtih jAtih samsthAnam ca , Akriyate vyavacchidyate anena svAsrayo’nena iti vyutpattyA iti bhAvah . ‘JAtyAkrtivyaktayastu padArthah ‘ iti gautamasUtrena tasyApi padArthatvabodhanat , pratyaksAdau tadbhAnAcca .
Under ‘siddhe sabdArthasambandhe’ Patanjali says – AkrtiranyA cAnyA ca bhavati
Dravyam punastadeva’ .
Kaiyata – asatyopAdhyavacchinnam brahmatattvam dravyasabdavAcyamityarthah . Brahmadarsane ca gotvAdijAterapi asatyatvAt anityatvam
‘Atmaivedam sarvam’ iti srutivacanAt .
NAgesa - anityeti , sa ca kambugrIvAdirUpah , tadvyangyajAtirUpasca, jAterapIti
anena etatprakaranasthAkrtipadasya vyangyavyanjakobhayaparatAm sUcayati , gautamenApyuktam ‘ jAtyAkrti…’
MahAbhAsyam – nityA Akrtih , katham? Na kvciduparateti krtvA sarvatroparatA
Bhavati , dravyAntarasthA tUpalabhyate .
Kaiyata – advaitena loke vyavahArAbhAvAt - vyavahAre ca AkrterekAkAraparAmarsahetutvAt nityatvam.
NAgesa – Akrtipadena jAtirityabhiprAyena .
Under ‘jAterastrIvisayAdayopadhAt’(4-1-63) Patanjali quotes two verses – jAtirityucyate , kA jAtirnAma ?
AkrtigrahanA jAtih lingAnAm ca na sarvabhAk I
sakrdAkhyAtanirgrAhyA gotram ca caranaissaha II
prAdurbhAvavinAsAbhyAm sattvasya yugapadgunaih I
asarvalingAm bahvarthAm tAm jAtim kavayo viduh II
But since neither verse is commented by BhAsykAra these are not the SiddhAnta – says NAgesa .
Among VaiyAkaranas also there was difference of opinion about jAti and vyakti –
Under ‘sarUpAnAm ekasesa ekavibhaktau’(1-2-64) Patanjali records –
‘AkrtyabhidhAnAdvA ekam vibhaktau vAjapyAyanah , dravyAbhidhAnam vyAdih’
In this context , a couple of Vedic sentences are taken up and discussed as in MImAmsA.
Patanjali concludes – nahyAkrtipadArthakasya dravyam na padArthah , dravyapadArtha-
Kasya vA Akrtirna padArthah , ubhayorubhayam padArthah , kasyacitkimcit pradhAnabhUtam kimcitgunabhUtam , AkrtipadArthakasya Akritih pradhAnabhUtA Dravyam gunabhUtam , dravyapadArthakasya dravyam pradhAnabhUtam AkrtirgunabhUtA .
The term ‘jAti’ denotes ‘jAti’ as there is another ‘jAti’ in that word . The terms – jAti and sAmAnyam denote the meaning ‘jAti’ as ‘jAti’ is pravrttinimittam .
Vaisesikas argue - nissAmAnyAni sAmAnyAni (there cannot be ‘jAti’ in ‘jAti’ ).
But according to them also it is required – asserts Hari (VAkyapadIyam 3-1-11,12,14) –
arthajAtyabhidhAne’pi sarve jAtyabhidhAyinah I
vyApAralaksanA yasmAt padArthAh samavasthitAh II
jAtau padarthe jAtirvA viseso vApi jAtivat I
sabdairapeksyate yasmAt tataste jAtivAcinah II
anupravrttidharmo vA jAtissyAtsarvajAtisu I
vyAvrttidharmasAmAnyam visese jAtirisyate II
According to VaiyAkaranas there can be jAti in Guna, KriyA and SamjnA also as there is - niyatarUpena ekAkArArthabodhakatvam .
Among the four AbhAvas there is no jAti , had there been one they would have become ‘bhAvapadArthas’ . Rather , since there is a common dharma in the form of ‘abhavanAtmaka’ , that itself is the jAti .
Bauddha and Jaina -
According to VijnAnavAdins (Bauddhas and Jainas) also Akrti or jAti is sabdavAcya as everything is in the form of ‘VijnAna’, i.e. it is buddhi only. Due to AvidyA it appears
as a thing in the outside world . If it shines in different forms in the Buddhi then it becomes ‘dravya’ (VAkya . 3-1-19) –
anupravrttirUpAm yAm prakhyAtAm Akrtim viduh I
kecidvyAvrttirUpAm tu dravyattvena pracaksate II
Niruktam -
All the Kriyas (sadbhAvavikAras)are the forms of MahAsattA only and it is acceptable to Yaska too –
saiva bhAvavikAresu sadavasthAh prapadyate I
kramena saktibhih svAbhirevam pratyavabhAsate II
If all the UpAdhis are the forms of Parabrahman then why there are jAti and vyakti ?
(Vakya 3-1-32)
satyAsatyau tu yau bhAgau pratibhAvam vyavasthitau I
satyam yattatra sA jAtih asatyA vyaktayah smrtAh II
Hari explains that the MahAsattA is nothing but Brahman and the same exhibits itself
thru Vivarta in the form of gotva, ghatatva, patatva etc. and all the sabdas are there in
jAti (VAkya 3-1-33) –
sambandhibhedAt sattaiva bhidyamAnA gavAdisu I
jAtirityucyate tasyAm sarve sabdA vyavasthitAh II
NaiyAyikas may call it NityA , SAmkhyas MahAn , VedAntins AtmA and PAnini PrAtipadikArtha and DhAtvartha . It is expressed thru tva, tal, khal, ghan etc in
BhAva - tasya bhAvastvatalau (Pan5-1-119), bhAve (Pan3-3-18), i.e. Taddhita or Krt. BhAva is the Pravrttinimitta and the same is SattA (ibid 34)–
tAm prAtipadikArtham ca dhAtvartham ca pracaksate I
sA nityA sA mahAn AtmA tAmAhuh tvatalAdayah II
VedAnta –
‘apAgAdagneragnitvam vAcArambhanam vikAro nAmadheyam ..’(ChAndogyopa . 6-4-1) – Agnitvam divorced Agni , i.e. jAti is not nitya .
Following ‘sarvam khalvidam brahma’ , ‘Atmaivedam sarvam’ etc. VedAntins do not accept anything except Brahman . So there is nothing like jAti for VedAntins .
dhanyo’smi
--
अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।
ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः।
निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)
--
Prof.Korada Subrahmanyam
Professor of Sanskrit,
CALTS,
University of Hyderabad 500046
Ph:09866110741(R),91-40-23010741,040-23133660(O)
Arun
published in 1966 by Peoples Publishing house. I do not know how such
an important book vanished from publication-probably publishers learnt
that it is not in line with Marxism. In some details, I differ with
Sri Ali, but his methods I follow entirely. I have added some
informations from astronomy about which also he has written. I had a
torn copy of that book which I have uploaded on scrib/Arunupadhyay. I
am in search of his earlier book-Geography of Arab which will also
give light on ancient places of that area. In India, that had been
area of Varuna called Pashi or lord of Yadasa (Taj tribe). Region of
Yama was west of Arab with capital at sanyamani piri. These names
still exist-Yaman, Amman, Sana, Dead-sea etc. Teacher in India was
Guru, Shukra (Kavi-Kaba) was of Asuras and Shani of Yama country. Old
town of Varuna has been called Uru-that was the ancient town of Iraq.
Shani was called Ninib in Hebrew-that was name of Assyrian capital
Nineve which had launched attacks upto India in 800 BC. It was
countered by Federation of Shudraka (his shaka in 756 BC)of 4 Agni
kings-Paramar, Pratihar, Chalukya and chahman. Finally, it was
destroyed in 612 BC as described in about 10 places in Bible. That was
by Chahaman of Delhi called Medes of east of Indus. Harivamsha-purana
has indicated a port west of Dwaraka named Vajra-nagara (Basra). Book
by M. Ali will be of immense help if it is traced and reprinted-Arun
>
> - Show quoted text -
Arun
Virya may be Arab (as a number in Hindi) and Mura of Morocco (Moors).
But one example Kambu may be from Kambuja (Combodia). Asuras are
mainly from west and western literature Old Testament desribes
destruction of Assyria by eastern power. That destruction was one of
the reasons why no body could check the advance of Alexander in 326
BC. Durga-saptashati describes 3 incarnations of Kali in chapter 11.
One is before Kali born from womb of Yashoda-that is Vindhyavasini.
Next was Shakambhari which was in 100 years of draught. That shpuld be
in period of drying of Saraswati and consequent over flooding of Ganga
in which Hastinapur was destroyed-in time of Nichakshu- 8 generations
after Yudhishthira. Chahmans rose in this time- and probably saved
India from famine and western attacks. They had been called Chauhans
of Shakambhari in their and related traditions. Destruction of Asuras
of west has been described in Durga incarnation. Assyria has not only
similarity of names with Asura, their kings also were titled Asura. It
was honourable title-meaning powerful, Asu=Prana. Kings of Persia and
Kanchi also had similar names-Pallava (Pahlava). This means Pahalwan
(wrestler) in Hindi. Similarly Khalifa (Calif) of Turkey or Arab)
means wrestler. There is 3rd incarnation of Bhramari-may be at time of
locust attack as an Iraq website has opined on my comments -Arun
> --
> अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।
> ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
> तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः।
gira...@juno.com
Respected Scholars, Namakar!
I am thankful to Dr. S. Korada for replying in detail to my question on Aakriti vaada. It will take one month for me to digest it.
I would like to know the Vyutpatti of Sanskrit word "Shabda" . I know this word is used with many meanings as discussed by Dr. S. Korada in his book, "Theories of Language". Thanks. N.R.Joshi.
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