Criticisms on Francis Clooney's Thinking Ritually

[Syam Akella]

Namaste Respected Scholars

Dr. Francis Clooney’s Thinking Ritually is an attempt by him to independently interpret and understand Jaimini’s Mimamsa Sutras without accepting  the interpretative exegesis of the important commentaries of Sabara Swamin, Prabhakara and Kumarila etc but still relying on them to understand Jaimini.  From our non-academic read of the work, it seems to us that he is laying a foundation for an alternative to Sabara Swamin. 

 

Author - Dr. Francis X. Clooney, S.J.

Publisher – De Nobili Research Library

Date – 1990 (Vienna)

ISBN – 3 900 271 21 6

 

A few requests for information please:

1. Any insight into this from the Vidwans and/or Purva Mimamsikas will be greatly appreciated.
2. Are there any critical works written in response to this work?
3. Are there any specific university departments in Bharat  and/or non-academic private organizations with focus on Purva Mimamsa?    

 

Best Regards

शुभं भूयात्

घनश्यामः आकेळ्ळ
प्रबन्धकः
कोविदानां वाणी
रेस् एल् एल् सी
४०२३ केन्नेट्ट् पैक्, #४०५
विल्मिन्गटन्, डेलावेर् १९८०७
अमेरिकायुक्तप्रदेशाः
००१-६१७-३४७-७०१०
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Syam Akella
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[Nagaraj Paturi]

>Are there any specific university departments in Bharat  and/or non-academic private organizations with focus on Purva Mimamsa?    

http://nsktu.ac.in/?page_id=798

Dr. T.S.R. Narayanan
Assistant Professor & Dept. In-charge
Department of Mimamsa
Tel: 0877-2287649 Ext, 320
0877-2240345
Mobile: 7702540263
E-Mail : Sankhapura...@nsktu.org
E-mail : hod_m...@nsktu.org    

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.

Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education, 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

 

 

[Nagaraj Paturi]

https://www.ssvv.ac.in/department-of-mimamsa

[Nagaraj Paturi]

https://hds.harvard.edu/people/francis-x-clooney

.............................................

...............................................

He is a Roman Catholic priest and has been a member of the Society of Jesus for 50 years. He serves regularly in a Catholic parish on weekends. 

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Dear Sri Syam Akella,

Attempts to understand original sutra works independent of the commentaries is not new. But to imagine that all such attempts are 'alternatives' to our foundational Aacharyas  like Sabara Swamin is unnecessary overestimation. 

[Syam Akella]

Much appreciated for the same Dr. Paturi Mahodaya.  We are looking for a academic person to write a critical response to this work. We will publish such a work and disseminate it both within the academic and layman circles as well.

https://www.ssvv.ac.in/department-of-mimamsa

 

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[K S Kannan]

The gap is perhaps a bit difficult to fill:

Traditional pundits have little exposure to these writings

(in addition to having no special need/zeal for mastering English);

and Western/modern scholars have seldom betrayed any ability

to express themselves in Sanskrit. And there is also a

conspicuous absence of interfaces/bridgebuilders.

Ultimately, the infrastructure Westerners have provided themselves figures as key here;

Traditional pundits struggle even to survive, after all, thanks to the inimical governments,

by and large, for well over a thousand years, and the worse sequel post-Independence.

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Dr. K.S.Kannan  D.Litt.

​Sant Rajinder Singh Ji Maharaj Chair Professor, IIT-Madras.

Senior Fellow, ICSSR, New Delhi.

Academic Director, Swadeshi Indology.

Member, Academic Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthana.

Nominated Member, IIAS, Shimla.

Former Professor, CAHC, Jain University, Bangalore.

Former Director, Karnataka Samskrit University, Bangalore.

Former Head, Dept. of Sanskrit, The National Colleges, Bangalore.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

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[K S Kannan]

Clooney has published, no doubt, on a variety of topics.

But the ambidexterity of  Subrahmanya Sastri I referred to

lies in his ability to write in English and Śāstraic Sanskrit with equal felicity

(the latter not in much evidence wrt Clooney - as far as my limited knowledge goes )

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[Ramesh Rao]

Neither knowledgeable in Sanskrit, nor well read in India's shastric traditions, and so, essentially unlettered in these matters :-( I found Roberto Calasso's "Ardor" one of the most scintillating books on the nature, meaning, performance, and pursuit of "ritual".

Ramesh Rao

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[Veeranarayanacharya Pandurangi]

Mahodaya

Please send three copies to me. I will see it reviewed by myself and two others.

Professor Veeranarayana N K Pandurangi
Dean of Vedanta Faculty
Karnataka Samskrit University
Pampa mahakavi road
Chamrajpet
Bengaluru 560018
Phone 7676202725

--

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

The Book was Printed in 1990 I doubt The book will be available as a print in India easily

Amazon.com  seller not amazo.in seems to have copies of this book

Thinking Ritually: Rediscovering the Purva Mimamsa of Jaimini (Publications of the De Nobili Research Library) (Publications of the De Nobili Research Library): Francis X. Clooney, S. J., Gerhard Oberhammer: 9783900271213: Amazon.com: Books  

The book has already been reviewed  several times

Thinking Ritually: Rediscovering the Pūrva Mīmāṃsā of Jaimini . Francis X. Clooney | The Journal of Religion: Vol 73, No 1 (uchicago.edu) 

17_vandenBosch.pdf (univie.ac.at) 

4578-Article Text-8486-1-10-20130411.pdf  

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

[Nagaraj Paturi]

The thread initiator was not looking for reviews. He seems to be looking for rebuttals. 

If no rejoinders exist, he wants to encourage one or some. 

Earlier reviews are not from traditional Sanskrit shaastra scholars. 

Sri Shyam Akella is looking /asking for reviews from traditional Sanskrit shaastra scholars. 

A review from Prof. Pandurangi will certainly fill that gap. 

Prof. Pandurangi or any other traditional or tradition-side scholar may make use of the "Buy me a Book" scheme of Indic Academy to procure the book. 

Indic Today is Indic Academy's platform where such reviews are readily welcomed. 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.

Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru

BoS Rashtram School of Public Leadership

Editor-in-Chief, International Journal of Studies in Public Leadership

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Sure yes, Prof Pandurangi asked for 3 copies of a book printed in 1990. A review by an authority  on that subject is done for a new book. Citicism and rebuttals can be done any time. Buy me a book scheme is a great initiative by India Academy. I too welcome all criticism and reviews done for books  even after 30 or 40 years. Is not all our philosophy continuous review and rebuttals for thousand years or more for instance on Brahma Sutra without any conclusion.

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

 > Is not all our philosophy continuous review and rebuttals for thousand years or more for instance on Brahma Sutra without any conclusion. 

Yes, true. But we can not conflate Vaidika tradition of rejoinders and rebuttals with Vaidika rejoinders to Avaidika renderings of Vaidika granthas.  

Yes, without any conclusion is the beauty of the academic process.  

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[Ajit Gargeshwari]

That is why I love Indian tradition and it's methodology  for always being open ended for future scholars to work think and arrive at further conclusions.  Unlike peer reviews of modern times which are time bound.

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

👍👍

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

Prof. Pandurangi, 

Indic Academy will buy a copy of the book for you to review and publish the same. 

Regards,

Nagaraj

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Dear Sri Syam Akella,

Amazon.com does not ship / deliver the book to an Indian address. 

Can you help the shipping /delivery of the book to Prof. Pandurangi ?

Thanks and regards,

[Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan]

Dear Prof. Paturi

You can order from https://sdn-istb.univie.ac.at/publications/pdnrl-17-clooney/

It's way cheaper than amazon and I think they ship to India.

Ramakrishnan

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[Ajit Gargeshwari]

The book is long out of print The only hope would be a photo copy from library where the boo is available

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari

Web site Visit https://archive.org/details/@sri_gargeshwari_digital_foundation

https://archive.org/details/karnatakasamskritauniversity

न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

Thanks for this suggestion Dr Balasubramanian. We will try this method. 

On Fri, Jan 29, 2021 at 8:26 PM Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan <b.ra...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[vsri...@indica.org.in]

Dear Sirs,

 

Namaskaram.

 

I am yet to hear from The De Nibili Research Library regarding payment for the copy ordered on their website.

 

You may like to find out an alternate source for purchasing the copy.

 

Best regards,

V Srinivas

 

From: vsri...@indica.org.in <vsri...@indica.org.in>
Sent: 30 January 2021 10:53
To: 'Nagaraj Paturi' <nagara...@gmail.com>; 'Bharatiya Vidvat parishad' <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: 'Syam Akella' <gak...@raysllc.com>; 'Hari Kiran' <ha...@indica.org.in>
Subject: RE: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Criticisms on Francis Clooney's Thinking Ritually

 

Namaskaram Sirs.

 

Thank you very much for your guidance.

 

I placed the order by providing address, pin & mobile number of Prof. Sri Pandurangi and entered my email id for communication and making payment.

 

I immediately received following mail from them, but it did not take me to payment page for completing the order.

 

From: Apache <apa...@typo-backend-01.univie.ac.at> On Behalf Of SDN ISTB
Sent: 30 January 2021 10:45
To: VeeranarayanaNK Pandurangi <vsri...@indica.org.in>
Subject: SDN: your order

 

Enter No. of Copies of PDNRL 17	1
First name*	VeeranarayanaNK
Last name*	Pandurangi
E-mail address*	vsri...@indica.org.in
Street address*

Dean of Vedanta Faculty Karnataka Samskrit University

Pampa Mahakavi Road Chamrajpet
Postal code*	560018
City*	Bengaluru
Country*	India
Comments	Mobile No.+91 7676202725

 

I believe, I should wait to hear from them for further steps to proceed on payment.

 

Best regards,

V Srinivas

 

From: Nagaraj Paturi <nagara...@gmail.com>

Sent: 29 January 2021 21:45
To: Bharatiya Vidvat parishad <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>

भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Criticisms on Francis Clooney's Thinking Ritually

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

A Is mentioned earlier it might be a good Idea to check if they do have copies left of  the book published 31 years ago.

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari

Web site Visit https://archive.org/details/@sri_gargeshwari_digital_foundation

https://archive.org/details/karnatakasamskritauniversity

न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

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[Narenthiran R]

Dear Sir,

The De Nibili Research Library publication distributor is MLBD, New Delhi. Please check copies are available there. When I checked their website the result is null, but it is not a bad idea to contact them. Sometimes they are very helpful.

Thanks

Narenthiran

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[Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan]

namo vidvadbhyaH

It took some time, but a very nice person named Jan Korbelik from the De Nobili library responded a couple of days back to me and I have ordered Prof. Clooney's book. I had been thinking about getting this book for some time now, so I ended up ordering it. So they do have some of the old publications still available for sale. Of course the postage ended being the same as the cost of the book - so there's that :-). 

If you have access to JSTOR, there are a couple of papers which he wrote on this topic available. I had downloaded these when I was working for a company which had paid access to JSTOR. I am not sure I should be posting them on a public forum.

NOTE: you can create a free account on JSTOR and get access to a few papers at a time for online reading. 

1. Jaimini's Contribution to the Theory of Sacrifice as the Experience of Transcendence

Francis X. Clooney

History of Religions, Vol. 25, No. 3. (Feb., 1986), pp. 199-212.

Stable URL: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0018-2710%28198602%2925%3A3%3C199%3AJCTTTO%3E2.0.CO%3B2-C

2. Evil, Divine Omnipotence, and Human Freedom: Vedānta's Theology of Karma

Author(s): Francis X. Clooney

Source: The Journal of Religion, Vol. 69, No. 4 (Oct., 1989), pp. 530-548

Published by: The University of Chicago Press

Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/1204034

They probably cover at least some of the ground in his book.

Ramakrishnan

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