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Sant Rajinder Singh Ji Maharaj Chair Professor, IIT-Madras.
Senior Fellow, ICSSR, New Delhi.
Academic Director, Swadeshi Indology.
Member, Academic Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthana.
Nominated Member, IIAS, Shimla.
Former Professor, CAHC, Jain University, Bangalore.Former Director, Karnataka Samskrit
University, Bangalore.
Former Head, Dept. of Sanskrit, The
National Colleges, Bangalore.
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देवानां प्रिय इति मूर्खे इति पाणिनीये सिद्धान्तकौमुद्यां वार्त्तिकम्।तस्य व्यख्या -देवानामिति। मूर्खा हि देवानां प्रीतिं जनयन्ति देवपशुत्वादिति मनोरमा। अयं भावः-- ब्रह्मज्ञानरहितत्वात्संसारिणो मूर्खाः। ते तु यागादिकर्माण्युनुतिष्ठन्तः पुरोडाशादिप्रदानद्वारा देवानामत्यन्तं प्रीतिं जनयन्ति। ब्रह्मज्ञानिनस्तु न तथा, तेषां यागाद्यनुष्ठानाऽबावात्। अतो गवादिस्थानापन्नत्वान्मूर्खा एव देवपशव इति।इति तत्त्वबोधिन्याम्।
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VishvaguNAdarsha-campU has a usage of pAShaNDa
On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 8:14 PM V Subrahmanian <v.subr...@gmail.com> wrote:
--On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 6:36 PM Hnbhat B.R. <hnbh...@gmail.com> wrote:देवानां प्रिय इति मूर्खे इति पाणिनीये सिद्धान्तकौमुद्यां वार्त्तिकम्।तस्य व्यख्या -देवानामिति। मूर्खा हि देवानां प्रीतिं जनयन्ति देवपशुत्वादिति मनोरमा। अयं भावः-- ब्रह्मज्ञानरहितत्वात्संसारिणो मूर्खाः। ते तु यागादिकर्माण्युनुतिष्ठन्तः पुरोडाशादिप्रदानद्वारा देवानामत्यन्तं प्रीतिं जनयन्ति। ब्रह्मज्ञानिनस्तु न तथा, तेषां यागाद्यनुष्ठानाऽबावात्। अतो गवादिस्थानापन्नत्वान्मूर्खा एव देवपशव इति।इति तत्त्वबोधिन्याम्।The basis of the above, I think, is this mantra (part) of the Brihadaranyaka Upanshad 1.4.10:अथ योऽन्यां देवतामुपास्तेऽन्योऽसावन्योऽहमस्मीति न स वेद यथा पशुरेवं स देवानाम् । यथा ह वै बहवः पशवो मनुष्यं भुञ्ज्युरेवमेकैकः पुरुषो देवान्भुनक्त्येकस्मिन्नेव पशावादीयमानेऽप्रियं भवति किमु बहुषु तस्मादेषां तन्न प्रियं यदेतन्मनुष्या विद्युः ॥ १० ॥This is the Shaankara Bhashya for the above:यस्मादेवम् , तस्मादविद्यावन्तं पुरुषं प्रति देवा ईशत एव विघ्नं कर्तुम् अनुग्रहं च इत्येतद्दर्शयति — यथा ह वै लोके, बहवो गोऽश्वादयः पशवः मनुष्यं स्वामिनमात्मनः अधिष्ठातारं भुञ्ज्युः पालयेयुः, एवं बहुपशुस्थानीयः एकैकः अविद्वान्पुरुषः देवान् — देवानिति पित्राद्युपलक्षणार्थम् — भुनक्ति पालयतीति — इमे इन्द्रादयः अन्ये मत्तो ममेशितारः भृत्य इवाहमेषां स्तुतिनमस्कारेज्यादिना आराधनं कृत्वा अभ्युदयं निःश्रेयसं च तत्प्रत्तं फलं प्राप्स्यामीत्येवमभिसन्धिः । तत्र लोके बहुपशुमतो यथा एकस्मिन्नेव पशावादीयमाने व्याघ्रादिना अपह्रियमाणे महदप्रियं भवति, तथा बहुपशुस्थानीय एकस्मिन्पुरुषे पशुभावात् व्युत्तिष्ठति, अप्रियं भवतीति — किं चित्रम् — देवानाम् , बहुपश्वपहरण इव कुटुम्बिनः । तस्मादेषां तन्न प्रियम् ; किं तत् ? यदेतद्ब्रह्मात्मतत्त्वं कथञ्चन मनुष्या विद्युः विजानीयुः । तथा च स्मरणमनुगीतासु भगवतो व्यासस्य — ‘क्रियावद्भिर्हि कौन्तेय देवलोकः समावृतः । न चैतदिष्टं देवानां मर्त्यैरुपरिवर्तनम्’ (अश्व. १९ । ६१) इति । अतो देवाः पशूनिव व्याघ्रादिभ्यः, ब्रह्मविज्ञानाद्विघ्नमाचिकीर्षन्ति — अस्मदुपभोग्यत्वान्मा व्युत्तिष्ठेयुरिति । यं तु मुमोचयिषन्ति, तं श्रद्धादिभिर्योक्ष्यन्ति, विपरीतमश्रद्धादिभिः । तस्मान्मुमुक्षुर्देवाराधनपरः श्रद्धाभक्तिपरः प्रणेयोऽप्रमादी स्यात् विद्याप्राप्तिं प्रति विद्यां प्रतीति वा काक्वैतत्प्रदर्शितं भवति देवाप्रियवाक्येन ॥regardssubrahmanian.v
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> 'पाषण्ड'. I would like to understand its origin. Any pointers would be appreciated.
Manfred Mayrhofer assumes "despite phonetic difficulties" a connection with parṣat (pariṣád-) and its derivations pāriṣada- "Participants in an assembly" (epic, classical), pārṣada- "Participants in an assembly", also "companions (especially of a god)" (Upaniṣads, epic, classical); please see attachment.
With best regards,
Roland Steiner
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I see one of the queries in the first post of this thread as being quite Olivelle'sque.
A subsequent point that "this is perhaps similar to the interpretation of the compound श्रमणब्राह्मणम् in the Mahabhashya verses its use in Ashokan inscriptions" is, in the above context, interesting to me.
If one were to simply connect these two dots, without necessarily endorsing any, I wonder if one might next see the question: are Patanjali and Asoka, hence, "far removed in time that there's this difference in meaning" (of श्रमणब्राह्मणम्)?
Even Dr. Olivelle had once written: “Patañjali can be dated with some precision and certainty to the middle of the second century bce.” (Olivelle 1999:xxxiii)
More fundamentally, how methodologically sound and reasonable is it to use differences in usage of a term to infer anything conclusive (even if only as supporting evidence) about the difference in time between the different usages?
If B uses a term very differently from A, can just that data-point alone:
1. tell anyone anything, to any reasonable degree, about the quantum of time elapsed between the usages of B and A?
2. tell anyone anything whose usage was earlier?
(These questions are not directed at anyone in this thread)
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> While pārṣada does not seem to have a negative meaning as it is used in the Nirukta or in Aśokan
> inscriptions, the words pāṣaṇḍa/pākhaṇḍa developed a negative meaning.
Yes, Madhav, the meanings given by Mayrhofer also correspond to this:
German "Ketzer, Ketzerei" = English "heretic, heresy".
But:
"aśok. (girnār) pāsaṁḍa-, (kālsī) pāśaṁḍa-, (shāhbāzgaṛhī) praṣaṁḍa-, (mānsehrā) prasada- (etc.) Sekte [= Engl. "sect"]."
Best,
Roland
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Mayrhofer sees a possible etymological connection between aśok. (girnār) pāsaṁḍa-, (kālsī) pāśaṁḍa-, (shāhbāzgaṛhī) praṣaṁḍa-, (mānsehrā) prasada- (etc.) meaning "sect" with parṣat (pariṣád-) "assembly" and its derivatives pāriṣada- "participant in an assembly" (epic, classical), pārṣada- "participant in an assembly", also "companion (especially of a god)" (Upaniṣads, epic, classical). Furthermore, another line leads from the neutral meaning "sect" to the pejorative meaning "heretic, heresy". For this, he refers to further literature, that one should read before judging this etymological approach. Anyone who can make a better suggestion should voice it.
Best,
Roland Steiner
I am only confirming what Prof. Deshpande noted."sarva-pArShadaM hIdaM shastram" occurs more than once.
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> No, Patanjali's statement is not a paraphrase of the statement you have
> cited. His concern is that vyAkaraNa must take into account usages in all domains,
> and account for them all. It is not fair to be selective of some and
> rejective of others.
This is not at all about Pataṅjali, but about the etymology of aśok. (girnār) pāsaṁḍa-, (kālsī) pāśaṁḍa-, (shāhbāzgaṛhī) praṣaṁḍa-, (mānsehrā) prasada- (etc.) meaning "sect".
Skt. pārṣada has several different meanings, like many other Sanskrit words. Sometimes these meanings (of one and the same word) are closely related, sometimes not. What is the problem? The expectation that two etymologically related words must share all attested meanings is wrong.
RS
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> Mayrhofer's suggestion could have been acceptable
> had he shown some grounds (such as attestations etc.)
> to mark a transition of sense through time.
> To assert wild links and ask for better answers
> may not be the best way to progress.
There is no question of that. Mayrhofer's "A Concise Etymological Sanskrit Dictionary" comprises in three volumes more than 2500 pages and presents and discusses the state of research of its time. Of course, Mayrhofer gives information about the literature in which a word is testified, and in what form and in what meaning. He does not give exact references to individual texts but instead references to the relevant secondary literature where everything else can be found. - Imagine how voluminous his "concise" dictionary would have been if he had also given all the references of a word. And besides, it would never have been completed. To my knowledge, there is no comparable modern etymological dictionary on Sanskrit, apart from his own later dictionary "Etymologisches Wörterbuch des Altindoarischen" in two volumes (Heidelberg 1992 and 1996) of more than 1700 pages.
And please remember: this is not an essay or a monograph on the etymology of pāṣaṇḍa, but a dictionary. On the contrary, I find it quite amazing how much information there is about this single word. I think this is an excellent starting point for further reflection and research on the etymology of this word.
> Wild guesses may not be best placed in dictionaries.
It is not a wild guess.
> Is it too difficult to throw a mild hint by adding a question mark after a wild suggestion?
He actually uses question marks very often. In the case of the pāṣaṇḍa entry, he does not make a positive assertion, but expresses a presumption. Therefore, I wrote:
"Manfred Mayrhofer assumes 'despite phonetic difficulties' a connection with [...]".
In his own words: "wohl kaum von parṣat [...] zu trennen" ("is hardly separable from parṣat [...]").
So from his point of view it is not a matter of assured facts, but of a strong presumption despite certain problems.
Best,
Roland Steiner
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> But the task expected of his commenders and recommenders is
> to carry things to logical/more logical conclusions if possible;
> to supplement and complement his work,
> rather than merely compliment, and rest at that.
References to secondary literature or newspaper articles or YouTube videos are given here on this list constantly, which is sometimes useful, sometimes less useful. Since Mayrhofer's dictionary had not yet been mentioned in this thread, I thought it useful to point it out. I myself have not researched the etymology of the word pāṣaṇḍa, so I cannot say more about it than what Mayrhofer says.
But if the prerequisite for being allowed to give a special bibliographical reference is own research on this particular topic, then there will be far fewer contributions on this list in the future.
Best,
Roland Steiner
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1. Kalpadrumaपाषण्डः, पुं, (पापं सनोति दर्शनसंसर्गादिना ददातीति । षणु ञ दाने + ञमन्तात् डः । पृषो- दरादित्वात् साधुः । यद्वा, पाति रक्षति दुष्कृतेभ्य इति । पा + क्विप् । पा वेदधर्म्मस्तं षण्डयति खण्डयतीति । यदुक्तम् । “पालनाच्च त्रयीधर्म्मः पाशब्देन निगद्यते । तं ष(ख)ण्डयन्ति ते यस्मात् पाषण्डास्तेन हेतुना ॥ नानाव्रतधरा नानावेशाः पाषण्डिनो मताः ॥ ”) वेदविरुद्धाचारवान् सर्व्ववर्णचिह्नधारी । बौद्ध- क्षपणकादिः । इति भरतः ॥2. Shabda Sagaraपाषण्डm. (-ण्डः)१. A heretic, an impostor, one who not conforming to the orthodox tenets of Hindu faith, assumes the external characteristics of tribe or sect, a Jain, a Bauddha &c.२. Any sect not Hindu.E. पाप sin, षण् to give, ड aff., deriv. irr.Also पाखण्डःShabda Sagaraपाखण्डm. (-ण्डः) A heretic, a heterodox Hindu, adopting the exterior marks of the classes, but not respecting the ordinances of the Vedas.E. पा for पाल what nourishes, (mankind, as virtue may be said to do,) and खडि to subvert or destroy, aff. अण्; also पाषण्ड.On Fri, 17 Apr 2020, 5:05 pm L Srinivas, <lns2...@gmail.com> wrote:Oh, thanks. But I dont have access to a searchable text of this work.I did check Manu however. All references to 'heretics' , 'heretical' etc are uniformly expressed with 'पाषण्ड' or a word derived from it. 'devaanaampiya' is interesting in its own way and despite my familiarity with it, my query had to do with 'पाषण्ड'. I would like to understand its origin. Any pointers would be appreciated.Thanks in advance,
Srini
On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 1:10:17 PM UTC-4, ks.kannan.2000 wrote:VishvaguNAdarsha-campU has a usage of pAShaNDaOn Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 8:14 PM V Subrahmanian <v.subr...@gmail.com> wrote:On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 6:36 PM Hnbhat B.R. <hnbh...@gmail.com> wrote:देवानां प्रिय इति मूर्खे इति पाणिनीये सिद्धान्तकौमुद्यां वार्त्तिकम्।तस्य व्यख्या -देवानामिति। मूर्खा हि देवानां प्रीतिं जनयन्ति देवपशुत्वादिति मनोरमा। अयं भावः-- ब्रह्मज्ञानरहितत्वात्संसारिणो मूर्खाः। ते तु यागादिकर्माण्युनुतिष्ठन्तः पुरोडाशादिप्रदानद्वारा देवानामत्यन्तं प्रीतिं जनयन्ति। ब्रह्मज्ञानिनस्तु न तथा, तेषां यागाद्यनुष्ठानाऽबावात्। अतो गवादिस्थानापन्नत्वान्मूर्खा एव देवपशव इति।इति तत्त्वबोधिन्याम्।The basis of the above, I think, is this mantra (part) of the Brihadaranyaka Upanshad 1.4.10:अथ योऽन्यां देवतामुपास्तेऽन्योऽसावन्योऽहमस्मीति न स वेद यथा पशुरेवं स देवानाम् । यथा ह वै बहवः पशवो मनुष्यं भुञ्ज्युरेवमेकैकः पुरुषो देवान्भुनक्त्येकस्मिन्नेव पशावादीयमानेऽप्रियं भवति किमु बहुषु तस्मादेषां तन्न प्रियं यदेतन्मनुष्या विद्युः ॥ १० ॥This is the Shaankara Bhashya for the above:यस्मादेवम् , तस्मादविद्यावन्तं पुरुषं प्रति देवा ईशत एव विघ्नं कर्तुम् अनुग्रहं च इत्येतद्दर्शयति — यथा ह वै लोके, बहवो गोऽश्वादयः पशवः मनुष्यं स्वामिनमात्मनः अधिष्ठातारं भुञ्ज्युः पालयेयुः, एवं बहुपशुस्थानीयः एकैकः अविद्वान्पुरुषः देवान् — देवानिति पित्राद्युपलक्षणार्थम् — भुनक्ति पालयतीति — इमे इन्द्रादयः अन्ये मत्तो ममेशितारः भृत्य इवाहमेषां स्तुतिनमस्कारेज्यादिना आराधनं कृत्वा अभ्युदयं निःश्रेयसं च तत्प्रत्तं फलं प्राप्स्यामीत्येवमभिसन्धिः । तत्र लोके बहुपशुमतो यथा एकस्मिन्नेव पशावादीयमाने व्याघ्रादिना अपह्रियमाणे महदप्रियं भवति, तथा बहुपशुस्थानीय एकस्मिन्पुरुषे पशुभावात् व्युत्तिष्ठति, अप्रियं भवतीति — किं चित्रम् — देवानाम् , बहुपश्वपहरण इव कुटुम्बिनः । तस्मादेषां तन्न प्रियम् ; किं तत् ? यदेतद्ब्रह्मात्मतत्त्वं कथञ्चन मनुष्या विद्युः विजानीयुः । तथा च स्मरणमनुगीतासु भगवतो व्यासस्य — ‘क्रियावद्भिर्हि कौन्तेय देवलोकः समावृतः । न चैतदिष्टं देवानां मर्त्यैरुपरिवर्तनम्’ (अश्व. १९ । ६१) इति । अतो देवाः पशूनिव व्याघ्रादिभ्यः, ब्रह्मविज्ञानाद्विघ्नमाचिकीर्षन्ति — अस्मदुपभोग्यत्वान्मा व्युत्तिष्ठेयुरिति । यं तु मुमोचयिषन्ति, तं श्रद्धादिभिर्योक्ष्यन्ति, विपरीतमश्रद्धादिभिः । तस्मान्मुमुक्षुर्देवाराधनपरः श्रद्धाभक्तिपरः प्रणेयोऽप्रमादी स्यात् विद्याप्राप्तिं प्रति विद्यां प्रतीति वा काक्वैतत्प्रदर्शितं भवति देवाप्रियवाक्येन ॥regardssubrahmanian.v
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--Dr. K.S.Kannan D.Litt.Sant Rajinder Singh Ji Maharaj Chair Professor, IIT-Madras.
Senior Fellow, ICSSR, New Delhi.
Academic Director, Swadeshi Indology.
Member, Academic Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthana.
Nominated Member, IIAS, Shimla.
Former Professor, CAHC, Jain University, Bangalore.Former Director, Karnataka Samskrit University, Bangalore.
Former Head, Dept. of Sanskrit, The National Colleges, Bangalore.
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> I was looking for some lexical references
If by lexical references you mean references in literature, you will find something on this web page if you enter pāṣaṇḍa or pASaNDa. ("lemma search").
https://nws.uzi.uni-halle.de/search?lang=en
If you drag the mouse cursor over individual details, further information is displayed.
See also:
https://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/PWGScan/2013/web/webtc/servepdf.php?page=4-0698
https://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/PWGScan/2013/web/webtc/servepdf.php?dict=pwg&page=4-0699
I have also scanned the two relevant pages from Woolner's "Asoka Glossary" (please see the attached file).
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1. tell anyone anything, to any reasonable degree, about the quantum of time elapsed between the usages of B and A?
2. tell anyone anything whose usage was earlier?
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Well, it's not an exact science. Let me explain why I had said 'removed in time'.In many loci when a word gets associated with it a more restricted meaning and in particular, a pejorative or other sense connoting opprobrium, it is reasonable to assume that it has taken some time to get that meaning and also, that the earlier meaning might have been of a general nature.
To me it appeared that 'पाषण्ड' and as the thread showed 'देवानाम्प्रिय' probably belong to this category. We can find many such words in our modern language too. Words in Hindi like 'गन्ध', 'वास' denoting 'fragrance', 'good smell' are more or less nowadays exclusively tending to mean 'bad odor'. Same with Tamil word nāṛṛam meaning 'fragrance' classically today stands for 'stench', as is the case with English words like 'knave', 'villain'. Their archaic sense tend to be non-negative.
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A lot could be said about Prof. Kannan's last e-mail. I shall be as brief as possible.
First of all, I would like to recall the context in which I refered to a single entry in Mayrhofer's dictionary (KEWA).
L Srinivas wrote:
“my query had to do with 'पाषण्ड'. I would like to understand its origin. Any pointers would be appreciated.”
I then pointed to the entry in Mayrhofer's dictionary (KEWA) that I consider relevant. Prof. Kannan has criticized this “pointer” in several e-mails with the following words:
“To assert wild links and ask for better answers may not be the best way to progress.” – “One can start a hypothesis only upon some real/sensible/plausible foundation. Or else add a caveat that the proposition is at best conjectural. Wild guesses may not be best placed in dictionaries. Is it too difficult to throw a mild hint by adding a question mark after a wild suggestion?” – “But the task expected of his commenders and recommenders is to carry things to logical/more logical conclusions if possible; to supplement and complement his work, rather than merely compliment, and rest at that.”
I do not need to reiterate my answers here. Of course, there can be no question of “wild links”, “wild guesses”, or “wild suggestion” at all if you know the dictionary or at least have read and understood the entry on pāṣaṇḍa.
In his last e-mail, Prof. Kannan now refers to a critical review by the German Indologist Paul Thieme, whom he calls “a giant scholar”. One may or may not see it that way, but that is not the point, because it is not about authorities, but about arguments. It goes without saying that such a monumental work like Mayrhofer's two etymological dictionaries (KEWA and EWA) is a challenge to criticism. Criticism is part of the very essence of research. Thieme himself ends his critical review as follows:
“Mayrhofer is not a man of pat answers, but a pensively brooding scholar. His work provokes thought, invites discussion, challenges criticism. We cordially wish him strength and energy for finishing his enterprise. We thank him warmly for a most valuable instrument de travail that, but for him and his enthusiasm, we should not have at our disposal.”
Now Thieme's own etymological approaches have by no means remained unchallenged among scholars, which in turn is perfectly normal. I could now go through Thieme's criticisms of Mayrhofer in detail, but that is not necessary here. Whether Mayrhofer speaks of “Sanskrit” or “Altindoarisch”, or whether he uses too many abbreviations (I do not want to imagine how many pages his two dictionaries [of now about 2500 and 2700 pages each!] would have covered without the use of these abbreviations), does not change the substance of his entry to pāṣaṇḍa in the least.
I could now also discuss Prof. Kannan's understanding of Thieme's review in detail, but I will spare myself that. Apart from the fact that Thieme has not reviewed Mayrhofer’s “Kurzgefaßtes etymologisches Wörterbuch des Altindischen (KEWA)/A Concise Etymological Sanskrit Dictionary“ (Heidelberg 1956–1976) at all here – this is the dictionary I referred to –, but the first 11 fascicles of Mayrhofer’s second dictionary “Etymologisches Wörterbuch des Altindoarischen (EWA)” which is not a second edition of the older dictionary, but a completely new dictionary), just one example is sufficient. Prof. Kannan remarks:
“Naive is the supposition that the antiquity of a language is settled just by its earliest literary attestation.”
With this he wants to paraphrase the following criticism by Thieme:
“They support the naïve supposition that a language is only as old as its earliest literary attestation.”
“They” here means: designations like “Middle Indic”, “Middle-Indo-Aryan”, or “Old-Indo-Aryan”. Thieme thus criticizes here certain language designations, because in his opinion they suggest something wrong or at least “support” a “naïve supposition.” It goes without saying that Thieme does not accuse Mayrhofer of sharing what he considers to be a “naïve supposition”; Thieme merely criticizes what he considers to be a misleading terminology.
Apart from this, with the first two volumes of his second dictionary (EWA), Mayrhofer has presented a complete dictionary of the “older language” (= lexemes that are first attested in the Vedic literature or, at most, by ancient grammarians), while the third volume deals with the younger language (= first attestation not before the epics or the law books). Those who do not share this historical perspective on language will find this etymological approach fundamentally wrong. The rest will find it useful in principle.
One last remark. The reference to an essay, a study or a dictionary entry is no more and no less than a pointer to a possible source of information or knowledge. At best, this source of information or knowledge “provokes thought, invites discussion, challenges criticism” (Thieme). It is not meant as a reference to an irrefutable truth, even if it has been expressed by an actual or merely supposed authority.
It is quite simple: Ignore the entry in Mayrhofer's dictionary or read it (after all, it is less than a whole page) and form your own opinion if you are able to (not everyone is a linguist). Why should I justify the reference to a dictionary, especially since its follow-up work is designated as "a most valuable instrument de travail [= working tool]" even by Thieme?
With this, I say farewell to this thread.
Roland Steiner
P.S.:
> Now for a justification of all the comments made above about Mayrhofer,
> *please see the highlights* made in the erudite review of
> the early fascicules of his work by a giant scholar (viz. Paul Thieme),
> attached.
I recommend a thorough, accurate and above all unbiased reading of the entire review of his "giant scholar". Here it depends very much on the nuances, the context and the basic preconditions, which are of course shared with Mayrhofer, but not always explicitly. It is not enough to highlight single remarks.
However, I must warn you: it's not for the faint-hearted. Example: Thieme's assessment of Yāska's "Etymology".
RS
[Sorry for the typo "his" instead of "this". Now corrected. RS]
P.S.:
> Now for a justification of all the comments made above about Mayrhofer,
> *please see the highlights* made in the erudite review of
> the early fascicules of his work by a giant scholar (viz. Paul Thieme),
> attached.
I recommend a thorough, accurate and above all unbiased reading of the entire review of this "giant scholar". Here it depends very much on the nuances, the context and the basic preconditions, which are of course shared with Mayrhofer, but not always explicitly. It is not enough to highlight single remarks.
However, I must warn you: it's not for the faint-hearted. Example: Thieme's assessment of Yāska's "Etymology".
RS
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Dear Madhav,
> This becomes even more likely in view of the Aśokan variant *prasada*.
Exactly, I completely agree, the transmitted consonant cluster with "r" is a very strong argument.
That is why I have quoted the variants "aśok. (girnār) pāsaṁḍa-, (kālsī) pāśaṁḍa-, (shāhbāzgaṛhī) praṣaṁḍa-, (mānsehrā) prasada-" even twice.
With best wishes,
Roland
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Through his rigorous approach to philosophical studies, he added immensely to our knowledge of Vedic and other classical Indian literature and provided a solid foundation to the study of the history of Indian thought. He has also trained many outstanding scholars and made a profound contribution to the academic world.
Ancient Indian thought has, in the form of Buddhism, been familiar to the Japanese since the earliest historical times. But its deepest and most venerable roots can be traced back to that great body of classical literature known as the Vedas.
Dr. Thieme has established a firm foundation for the elucidation of the Vedic texts, and has produced from among his students many outstanding scholars in fields such as Vedic studies, Indian philosophy, Sanskrit grammar, and Indo-Aryan Philology. These students have continued Dr. Thieme’s work in many nations far beyond the borders of his native Germany.
The Vedic literature which has formed the principle object of Dr. Thieme’s enquiry is important not merely from the standpoint of ideological research, but because it comprises Hinduism, Buddhism, and various other elements making up the rich tradition of Indian thought. The Vedas, the oldest of all Sanskrit literature, rank in importance with the ancient Greek classics as vital source materials for comparative linguistic studies in the Indo-European languages.
Dr. Thieme, building on his work in the Western classics and Indo-European comparative linguistics, has opened new vistas in the philological and interpretative study of Vedic literature.
Dr. Thieme’s method employs the “Wortkunde,” a German expression indicating the study of word meaning. This method involves collecting terms associated with important ideological and literary concepts from the entire range of Vedic literature, arranging them, and analyzing them according to context. This precise investigative technique enables the fundamental meanings of concepts to be clarified, and their subsequent etymological development to be traced.
Using this method Dr. Thieme has clarified the meanings of numerous important concepts, including “brahman,” the supreme principle of the universe and one of the fundamental axioms of Indian philosophy and religion, and “arya,” the name adopted by the various peoples who rose from the original Vedic culture.
Ancient Indian literature, with the Vedas at its peak, stands with the classic writings of Greece and China as part of the priceless spiritual heritage of humankind. In modern civilization we have come to rely on fossil fuels such as coal and oil for many of our material needs, but the ancient classics provide an invaluable source of “fossil fuel” to meet our spiritual needs. Correctly understood and applied, they have an enormous amount to contribute to our inner lives.
Dr. Paul Thieme’s contribution in providing a firm direction for the study of the ancient Indian classics is fully as important as any advance made in the more eye-catching fields of science and technology. His work is a priceless gift to the future of humankind.
Quoting from memory,the verse begins withveda-vaidika-vidveSha-dUShitA bhasmarUShitAH |
On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 5:43 PM Roland Steiner <ste...@staff.uni-marburg.de> wrote:
> 'पाषण्ड'. I would like to understand its origin. Any pointers would be appreciated.
Manfred Mayrhofer assumes "despite phonetic difficulties" a connection with parṣat (pariṣád-) and its derivations pāriṣada- "Participants in an assembly" (epic, classical), pārṣada- "Participants in an assembly", also "companions (especially of a god)" (Upaniṣads, epic, classical); please see attachment.
With best regards,
Roland Steiner
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--> 'पाषण्ड'. I would like to understand its origin. Any pointers would be appreciated.
Manfred Mayrhofer assumes "despite phonetic difficulties" a connection with parṣat (pariṣád-) and its derivations pāriṣada- "Participants in an assembly" (epic, classical), pārṣada- "Participants in an assembly", also "companions (especially of a god)" (Upaniṣads, epic, classical); please see attachment.
With best regards,
Roland Steiner
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One must admire the sense of thankfulness expressed by Sri Srinivasakrishnan.Gratitude is indeed a great virtue.It does not matter much that it can be very selective.
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 4:16 PM Srinivasakrishnan ln <lns2...@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you, Dr Steiner. the KEWA entry was a rather useful pointer to what I was seeking. It's unfortunate that while helping me you had to take some flak. Sorry about that.Srini
On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 8:13 AM Roland Steiner <ste...@staff.uni-marburg.de> wrote:
--> 'पाषण्ड'. I would like to understand its origin. Any pointers would be appreciated.
Manfred Mayrhofer assumes "despite phonetic difficulties" a connection with parṣat (pariṣád-) and its derivations pāriṣada- "Participants in an assembly" (epic, classical), pārṣada- "Participants in an assembly", also "companions (especially of a god)" (Upaniṣads, epic, classical); please see attachment.
With best regards,
Roland Steiner
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