kartum akartum anyatakartum

[Niranjan Ni]

Dear Vidvans,

kartum akartum anyatakartum

Can someone explain the meaning of these terms and in what context they appear in shastra?

Thanks,

Niranjan

[V Subrahmanian]

On Wed, 7 Nov 2018, 23:53 Niranjan Ni, <niranj...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Vidvans,

kartum akartum anyatakartum

Can someone explain the meaning of these terms and in what context they appear in shastra?

As I have seen, it occurs in the context of differentiating between karma and jnana. For example Shankaracharya says in the Brahmasutra bhashya:

 पुरुषाधीनात्मलाभत्वाच्च कर्तव्यस्य । कर्तुमकर्तुमन्यथा वा कर्तुं शक्यं लौकिकं वैदिकं च कर्म ; यथा अश्वेन गच्छति, पद्भ्याम् , अन्यथा वा, न वा गच्छतीति । तथा ‘अतिरात्रे षोडशिनं गृह्णाति, नातिरात्रे षोडशिनं गृह्णाति’ ‘उदिते जुहोति, अनुदिते जुहोति’ इति ।

Here, an action, worldly or scriptural, is open to: doing or not doing or doing differently. When faced with the prospect of, say, going to some place, one has the options of going by walk or going by horseback or any other means or not going at all. Examples for vedic actions too can be given, as above.

On the other hand, knowledge, being about an already existent thing, does not offer options; it has to be known correctly as it is by applying the appropriate pramana. 

Hence alone action, karma, is person-dependent, purushatantra, for its accomplishment and jnana is object-dependent, vastutantra.

The Vedanta holds that there is no action involved in Brahman, that is already everexisting . In dharma, which has to be produced, there is action involved. One can choose to produce it or not produce it or produce it differently. There is no way we can know Brahman differently; it has to be known as it is. For this just the operation of the appropriate pramana, veda, is required and no more action. To know the picture on a poster it is enough if I see it. In dharma I have to know what it is, how to produce it and execute the method and only then the intended dharma is produced. Jnanam is not so; it already exists and just knowing it is sufficient and no action is required thereafter to produce it; the fruit of knowing is had. 

ध्यानं चिन्तनं यद्यपि मानसम् , तथापि पुरुषेण कर्तुमकर्तुमन्यथा वा कर्तुं शक्यम् , पुरुषतन्त्रत्वात् । ज्ञानं तु प्रमाणजन्यम् । प्रमाणं च यथाभूतवस्तुविषयम् । अतो ज्ञानं कर्तुमकर्तुमन्यथा वा कर्तुमशक्यम् । केवलं वस्तुतन्त्रमेव तत् ; न चोदनातन्त्रम् , नापि पुरुषतन्त्रम् ; 

This passage explains what I said above. Jnanam is generated by a pramana. And a pramana has for its subject an already existing thing. (for example the eye is a pramana that has for its subject some form or color that already exists I cannot use the eye to see/know something that does not exist as of now.)

Hope the above helps in addressing your question.

Regards

Subrahmanian. V

Thanks,

Niranjan

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[Niranjan Ni]

Thank you sir,

Can and you and others also explain the meaning of the words from roots ?

Any other references? 

I heard in an upanyasam where the upanyasaka called Sri Krishna the Lord transcendent over kartun akartum and anyathakartum.

[V Subrahmanian]

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 9:43 PM Niranjan Ni <niranj...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you sir,

Can and you and others also explain the meaning of the words from roots ?

Any other references? 

I heard in an upanyasam where the upanyasaka called Sri Krishna the Lord transcendent over kartum akartum and anyathakartum.

In this context, the meaning is: Brahman, the jagatkaaranam, being the master of the Mayashakti, is spoken of as 'being capable of creation in any way It chooses, or not do at all. '  This statement would only convey Brahman's complete svAtantryam in creation.  This is more of an arthavAda than a fact.  For, creation is dependent on karma of jivas and it cannot be done away with resulting in the jivas' unfructified karma being lost. 

If you had mentioned the upanyasa-context, I would not have presented the Brahmasutra bhashya, etc.

regards

subrahmanian.v  

[Niranjan Ni]

No. Complete understanding is possible when the meaning comes across many different contexts.

[Hnbhat B.R.]

I think the meaning is crystal clear "to do to not to do or do otherwise" and the conte,t only decides the doer of the action and what action to be done. For understanding the phrase, and the components, a little grammar knowledge is necessary. Mr. Subramanian has offerred the context he knows and you have to find all other references you think it is possible to use the phrase.

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[Damodara Dasa]

Hare Krishna.

Respected Vidvaj-janas,

I had a small question reading this old thread regarding the often used Sanskrit phrase--kartum, akartum, anyatha-kartum.

Subrahmanian ji has nicely shown how Sankaracarya uses this phrase in his Sariraka Bhasya. However, I want to know if this phrase is used by acharyas previous to Sankaracarya or is it also found somewhere in sastras? i.e. I want to know the original source of this phrase.

Thank you,

Hari Guru Vaisnava das,

damodara das

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[Raghavendra]

Namaste,

अकर्तुमखिलं कर्तुमन्यथाकर्तुमप्यलम् ।
सङ्कल्पसचिवः काले शक्तिलेशस्स तावकः ॥ 

॥यदवाभ्युदयः॥श्रीमद्वेदान्तदेशिक॥
=======+++++==========
From: Damodara Dasa <damoda...@gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 10:22:22 GMT+0530
To: ­¯¿ª¿· <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} kartum akartum anyatakartum

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/1e8ed29b-078d-4466...@googlegroups.com.

[Damodara Dasa]

Hare Krishna.

Respected Raghavendra ji,

Thank you for this additional source from Vedanta Desikan.
-----------------------

अकर्तुमखिलं कर्तुमन्यथाकर्तुमप्यलम् ।
सङ्कल्पसचिवः काले शक्तिलेशस्स तावकः ॥
॥यदवाभ्युदयः॥श्रीमद्वेदान्तदेशिक॥

------------------------

However, I am looking for the original source of this phrase, or the
source which is dated before Sankaracarya who used it in his Sariraka
Bhasya (1.1.2).