Query on difference in Sandhyavandanam between Veda Shakhas
Ganesh Natarajan
Ganesh Natarajan
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Dr.BVK Sastry(G-MAIL)
Namaste
My responses on the questions below are indented and placed below. This and topics like this almost end up as ‘Chit-Chat- Curios’ and ‘ Social Media Titi-Bits’ for over years and across several group posts. In reality, these details are meant for practical implementation ( abhyaasa –anushthana) and not for ‘ pravachana – charchaa’.
If you had followed the theme of ‘ VINIYOGA’ mentioned several times by Dr. Yadu in this forum, and ‘ contemplated on ‘Samskrutham as Vak-Yoga’ in my earlier posts, these issues would have been clerarer.
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BVK Sastry ( on ) :
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From:
bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Ganesh Natarajan
Sent: Wednesday, 29 August, 2018 10:34 AM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Query on
difference in Sandhyavandanam between Veda Shakhas
Dear scholars,
Can you please share your responses for my questions... I didnt get any answer... may be it got missed in a flurry of emails.
thanks much for your time in advance...
thanks,
ganesh.
On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 10:53 AM, Ganesh Natarajan <ganes...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear scholars,
I would like to get some clarification regarding various Sandhyavandanam procedures. I think there are slight differences between the Sandhyavandam of various Vedas. For example we get separate book for 'Yajur veda Sandhyavandanam' , 'Rg veda Sandhyavandam' etc.
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BVK Sastry ( on ‘slight differneces ) : The differences are clear, unique, instructions on Applied Yoga for specific goals under specific heads of Vedas.
The revenue to government comes from many streams. But specific stream of Income Tax has different format/ department and procedures , which is different from ‘Excise, customs…’.
The administrative formats and names keep changing and get updated/ customized for context. So does the modes of payment. Some pay direct; some go on line; some pay by card !
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1. What differs mainly in these?
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BVK Sastry ( on what differs ) : Applied Yoga Instructions for Customized Practice of Sandhyavandanam : The UTILITY APPLICATION BENEFIT = SANDHYAVANANDANA JAPA -VINIYOGA
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2. Does the list of Rishis differ in any way? [ In Krishna Yajur I recite - "Atri, Bruhu, Kutsa, Vasistha, Gautama, Kashyapa, Angirasa rishayaha..." is it same across all veda shakhas of Sandhyavandam?
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BVK Sastry ( on list of Rishi’s) : Yes. They do differ and serve different purposes.
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2a. Any idea why the above particular order is maintained? Can we assume its chronologically arranged? (like Atri is most ancient)
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BVK Sastry ( on Rishi particular order – Ancient or modern ) : This question is inappropriate and offensive to tradition. Veda is a Darshana and ‘ TIME- PLACE TRANSCENDENT’ ( Ateendriya- Apaurusheya). The Rishi associated with Veda Mantra , also is a ‘ Yoga- Kriyaa’ to be used in ‘Sandhyaa – practice’ in a given order. (Rishi is NOT a NAMED PERSON) . The sequence of Rishi’s is a sequence of Applied Yoga Instructions to be practiced in the Sandhyavandana as Applied Yoga.
This understanding is provided by Yaska and several other works, who consider ‘Samskrutham as ‘Vak-Yoga’: The language of ‘Vedas (Mantra- Chandas), The language of Consciousness (Brahma), the Language of Yoga, The Language of Devataa’, the Sequential sounds of Cosmic Music heard by the Seer ( Shruti – Sukta- Rushi Darshana).
Where did one loose this fundamental understanding given in tradition ? When Colonials made the proposition of ‘ Historic Veda, Migrating bards bringing an alien language to India’; and the proposition has been gulped, assimilated to blood and brains and repeated by ‘ current scholars’. This is where ‘ The Cow ( GauH = Knowledge of Samskrutham) got corrupted and failed to capture the starting point of ‘ Patanjali Mahabhashya’ reading –‘ Atha GauH ityatra kaH shabdaH ?’ And Yaska’s listing of Veda-Shabdas used in ‘Brahma-karma part of Sandhyavandanam ) as ‘ GauH- gmaa –jmaa - kshaa…’.
The researchers of ‘Sanskrit and disciplines of tradition narrated using the language: Sanskrit’ are no doubt serious persons and scholars, looking for ‘ live benefits from Sandhyavandanam’ ; but the material they are using for research is ‘ a text body on a postmortem table’.
Therefore, where one should be asking for ‘What is ‘Atri Rushi – Yoga Kriyaa’ instruction associated with ‘Gayatri’ , the inappropriate question asked is ‘ Ancientness of Atri as a historic person’. This is the inappropriateness.
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3. Is their any difference between Iyer/Aiyangars Sandhyavandana?
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BVK Sastry ( on practice differences ) : Yes. Each system advocates does ‘Sandhyavandanam’ as a ‘ Customized- Personalized Practice of Vedic Yoga, technically called as ‘ Swaadhyaaya, Brahma- Karma’, Ishwara – Pranidhaana’, Tapas.
In current practice, the practice is used as a ‘ cultural specificity marker’ in a ‘ ritual’. How will wearing ‘ Bhasma- Vibhooti’ make a difference for Sanhyavandanam from wearing ‘ Gopichandanam’ or ‘ Pundra Naamas’ ??
Tradition has an answer for these as ‘Yoga- Vedanta Combined prakriya’, for a UTILITY- APPLICATION BENEFIT and groom ‘ IDENTITY OF BRAHMANA COMMUNITY’.
Modern Communities have an answer as a ‘ Cultural identity marker’ to divide the ‘ BRAHMANA COMMUNITY by marks on face and body .
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4. Is there any book/research paper already done on 'comparing the sandhyavandana procedure'?
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BVK Sastry ( on Sandhyavandana Research ) : Partially and Peripherally, like seeking the difference between a red and black cow !
The current models used and practiced are a ‘ loose exploration, without a focus, lacking clarity on what to look for, working with inaccurate postulates on ‘Historic Veda and Yoga’,
Such ‘ Cyber Academic’ approach is not research in modern sense (= Objective Scientific ) or traditional sense (= Tapas / Jijnyaasaa/ Meemaamsaa).
Such approached are chit-chats, without ever having a concern ( Shraddhaa – Vairagya – Adhikaara) for understanding ‘ UTILITY- APPLICATION OF SANSHYAVANDANAM’.
It is Like studying ‘COW’ by skin color and body size without ever thinking ‘ Why Cow’ ? (= VINIYOGA of GauH).
Exemplary knowledge on skin color of cow does not help to understand the taste of ‘ milk’ or change the change the’ color of milk’ given by cow.
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5. I can see the below versions in the internet: (i) "Krishna Yajur", (ii) "Rg veda (iii) "Sama veda" (iv) Sukla Yajur Kanva Saka. Is there any other version available?
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BVK Sastry ( on Veda Specific Sandhyavandana procedures ) : Yes, Pl. check with traditional schools and practitioners.
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6. Is there a Sandhyavandanam procedure based on Atharva veda?
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BVK Sastry ( on Atharvana veda Sandhyavandana procedure ) : Yes. And many modifications of it also.
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7. Does Tarpanam also has different versions?
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BVK Sastry ( on 7- Tarpanam ) : The answer is yes. ‘Tarpanam’ is a procedure of mystic end, to feed and quench thirst of several ancestors ( if one trusts and believes the tradition).
The procedure, timing, materials used are all different !
If living human beings are uniquely different, why not the departed ones journeying through their ‘uniquely different Karma cycles’ ? There is no ‘Single Hell OR Single Heaven OR Single ‘God’ OR Single Life process postulate in Vedic Traditions.
‘ Bahoonaam janmanaam Ante, jnanavaan maam prapadyate’
‘ Vasaamsi jeernaani yathaa vihaaya, navaani ghunaati naroparaani’ …
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Thanks in advance for your time.
Thanks,
Ganesh.
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Dr.BVK Sastry(G-MAIL)
Namaste
My responses indented below:
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BVK Sastry ( on ) :
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From: Ganesh Natarajan
[mailto:ganes...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, 3 September, 2018 12:38 PM
To: Dr.BVK Sastry(G-MAIL)
Cc: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Query on
difference in Sandhyavandanam between Veda Shakhas
Dear BVK Sastry Ji,
Thank you very much for your time and detailed responses to my queries. I first seek your apology if I have hurt your/anybody's beliefs. Let me explain my point of view of asking the questions...
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1. BVK Sastry ( on ) : Honest asking questions, seeking –exploring Truth does not hurt anyone or irritate. Difference of opinion is always welcome as a part of dialogue. There is no reason to expect everyone to see the same way.
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I am exploring Bharatiya history based on the Samskrit literature, available books etc. In this context I infer that after Brahmana's period, Sutra period starts, where many great rishis have formulated the sutras for each veda shakha (like Baudyana, Apastamba etc.).
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2. BVK Sastry ( on ) : You have explained your premise, line of argument, resources you are engaging and GOAL as : ‘Exploration of Bharatiya History’. And basis for your inference ! May be you should get back to sources and Masters and ask the question differently and get their views.
- ‘Resources in Samskruth’ come in two formats : Apaurusheya and Paurusheya . This is a fundamental premise in traditional schools and Samskruth Language Grammar (= Vedanga Vyakarana) teaching.
- Modern linguists, indologists do not subscribe to this ‘ modeling’. Why ? Because these researchers do not desire to explore ‘Samskrutham’ the same way as ‘ Panini- Patanjali- Yaska’ presented. These sages are considered outdated thinkers and relics who were confused on ‘What Veda is and What it says’ due to ‘ separation in Time’ ! Any Colonial scholar or Orientalists who would stand by Panini- Patanjali-Yaska and question the German scholars would lose their ‘ academic caste’!
- Why so ? Because, the Language- template used by Modern researchers does not recognize ‘Yoga’ as a tool for ‘ research’; Linguists and Anthropologists do not recognize Samskrutham as ‘ Vak-Yoga’ ( The Vedic and Vedanga Vyakarana Model).
Therefore, three prime concepts of Tradition on Samskrutham – namely (i) ‘ Transcendental Language’ ( Ateendriya Bhashaa / Guhya Bhashaa, Mantra Bhashaa) , (ii) ‘ Language of Divinities( Deva-Bhashaa), (iii) Language of Yoga ( Yoga- Bhashaa) are arbitrarily, inappropriately distorted in ‘ History Research’ by making ‘Samskrutham a ‘Socio- Historic Language’.
Once this root error is committed in modeling language, ( like Human studies modeled as evolution from primate apes and animals) the outcome of research inherits the ‘ error of root signature’ and permeates all later writings. For all heavenly reasons, Panini-Patanjali-Yaska could be absolutely wrong and rubbish ! It does not matter. It is a topic open for research. What really matters for ‘ BHARATEEYA History research is respecting the ground premises that shaped ‘Bharath through Mahabharath ( The fifth Veda; with Gita at its heart)’. This is respecting VYASA Maharshi and Suta- Puranika Sampradaya which uses ‘ Upa-Brumhana’ techniques to shape the history of Bharath.
The researchers who produce secondary writings using the post colonial ‘ available books based on faulty axiomatic position’ and ‘ Colonial Biblical Language Model of Samskrutham’ and prefer to use the authority of ‘print published article’ as ‘ final authority for Samskruth – History research’ continue to rehash the root- errors again and again ! . It pains to see this scenario, where in ‘ The Insider Sepoy’s’ who build their research castle on ‘ Western Language Model ported to Samskrutham’, cause greater harm to tradition than ‘ outsiders’.
It also pains to see and fails my imagination to see how many such brilliant scholars have sidelined the ‘ Panini- Patanjali- Yaska’ Premise on ‘Samskruth Language Modeling’ and continue to trash it without undertaking serious research on the relation of ‘ Language strata’s and States of Consciousness’. It also pains to see why such brilliant scholars lock themselves to a pre-drawn lane of ‘ History of Language’ deeply linked with the ‘ Darwinian evolution’ premise, the premature models of linking human social language to Gene level markers and then move it across continents ( and anchor to Africa) to build fancy history !
There are several groups outside of ‘Indology’ where in the subject of ‘ Human language and States of Consciousness’ are being explored using pointers from Yoga- Vedanta Shastras ( albeit error of Translation dominating the discussion) .
It is Darwinian model of human evolution and ‘ language development’ that needs to be addressed first to understand the vision of Panini-Patanjali- Yaska’ the trio who bring out the ‘Vedic Wisdom/ Vision’ as ‘Vak- Yoga- Samskrutham’. The concept of linear history and stratified period of Rushi’s / posteriori- anteriority deliberation ( poorva- nootana) has its inheritance on this axiom. Contra, Samskruth Language Modeling is based on Cyclic model of Yuga and Year- Time cycles referred to in Gita ( and many other works of Dharma Shaastra, Jyotisha…; and Budhdist and Jain literatures also).
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Sandhyavandanam is an age old practice which should have started during that time. Exploring on that, will give more information, is my thought process, which propelled me to ask the below questions. In that aspect, I am not exploring them as a western would do. I want to understand the difference in the context of various shakhas to find out the significance of the difference.
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3. BVK Sastry ( on ) : ‘Sandhyavandanam is a ‘Veda- vihita –Vidhi’. The nature of Vidhi is understood from the language format and understanding of the ‘ Mantra’ that has come through the tradition. It does not matter whether it is 5000 years old or Time-Transcendent. The axiom to question here : Why Veda mandated Sandhya ( at least for Brahmanas ?? If not for all’) ? ‘ Does Sandhyavandanam’ carry a start date? With a shelf life/ expiry date ?? Some scholar postulated Veda as a ‘ Historical document of migrant nomads’ ; and modern researchers take it as ‘ gospel truth’; So Researcehrs start asking the question : Vedic Sandhyavandanam, therefore must have a historic start date and must be subjected to social language dynamics ? Because of this axiomatic backdrop, Sandhyavandanam must have a original format which must have subsequently undergone a change in specific Veda-Shakhas etc; used by different communities holding on to their ‘ historic identities’ ?
I do not say that the question is devoid f logic ! For there are many Yajnas, Tantra practices which have a time –context-society based beginning. These need to be looked at as ‘ Custom Yoga Instruction’ for a Goal’ (Yoga- Anushaasanam’ for Ishta Kaamyaartha Siddhi’. These draw upon the Vedic Text and Traditions.
Traditional schools hold that ‘ Sandhyavandanam is mandatory, Veda- Vihita Vidhi for all Four Varnas; Sandhya Practice format does change as ‘ Custom Yoga Instruction’ in each Veda – Shakhaa’. If the practitioner is pre-qualified / initiated for that practice, then that format is used by that person. IF a student has learnt two Vedas let us say, and he wants to practice ‘Sandhya according to another Shaakhaa/ Veda’, would it be prohibited ? would it be a heresy ? apostasy ? a sin ? Veda does not prohibit one person from practicing multiple Sandhya formats for specified goals, If the person is pre-qualified. Dharma Shastra/ Sutra kaaras would decide this issue based on ‘Samskara’. This is called ’ GAYATRI MANTRA - JAPE - VINIYOGAH’ – The Sandhya – Yoga- Anushaasanam.
What seems to be happening in current traditional circles around is ‘ faith belief holding on to a family- practice format’ ,not fully understanding what it means to be a ‘ member of specific veda –Shaakha’ / initiated to specific Gotra- Pravara Sampradaaya ? ? Convenient excuses are provided that ‘ In the absence of a qualified person/ purohita, get the ritual done by the ‘ shakhaa of the acharya’ ! In reality of practice, it further deteriorates. By the third day of the ‘Social event of Upanayanam’, the enthusiasm of ‘Samskaara’ seems to die down.
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Let me take an example, we say "sapta rishis". During my study on this topic I found that (i) Rg veda lists 7 rishis ("Seers of Rg veda - V G Rahurkar), (ii) Mahabharata lists sapta rishis. (iii)In our Sandhyavandanam also we recite sapta rishi names. I noted slight differences in the names between these 3..... Hence I wanted to explore on them...
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4. BVK Sastry ( on ) : So what ? The listing differ by text- context. ‘IF Veda’ s a DARSHANA, Mahabharata is ‘ AAKHYAANA’.
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And I humbly deny your view that the Rishis are not human beings. Because based on my understanding, they were the "mantra drashtas" (who have seen these mantras) through their great yogic power and tapas. The अनुक्रमणी mentions the Rishis name also. Hence I am not able to understand your point that the rishis are mystical and never refer to a person who lived in the yore.
Request you to share your thoughts/any references, which will help me in this regard...
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5. BVK Sastry ( on ) : The existing text and tradition is straight and simple, clear and concise. What is needed is a change in the POV at least for argument sake and make sincere effort to understand the ‘ unified tradition of ‘ Shadanga-Vedanga to understand Veda’s ‘ as presented by Panini- Patanjali- Yaska. Once this strong foundation is built, then one can think of entering the portals of ‘ Vedanta’.
In simple terms, practice VEDA before contemplating on VEDANTA. As Acharya Shankara said: ‘ Vedo NITYAM Adheeyataam, taduditam Karma swanushtheeyataam; Tena Ishasya vidheeyataam apachitih’.
The corollary of this is All efforts to understand –practice ‘Veda’ using ‘Vedanta Plank is like trying to search the root of a tree by looking at the ‘Chopped down Branches and leaves (Shaakhas) scattered on ground’.
Once this is understood, the clarity emerges on How and Why ‘ the given Term’ indicates ‘ Rushi’ as a person –yogi- and also a ‘ Yoga- Kriyaa’. May be you need to understand Katyayana Anukramani’s more closely and understand why He says ‘ Rushi’ is the Prana of Mantra.
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Thanks again,
Ganesh.
Ganesh Natarajan
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Ganesh Natarajan
Ganesh.
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