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अन्नाद्भवन्ति भूतानि पर्जन्यादन्नसम्भवः |
यज्ञाद्भवति पर्जन्यो यज्ञः कर्मसमुद्भवः ||३- १४||
कर्म ब्रह्मोद्भवं विद्धि ब्रह्माक्षरसमुद्भवम् |
तस्मात्सर्वगतं ब्रह्म नित्यं यज्ञे प्रतिष्ठितम् ||३- १५||
एवं प्रवर्तितं चक्रं नानुवर्तयतीह यः |
अघायुरिन्द्रियारामो मोघं पार्थ स जीवति ||३- १६||
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भूतभावोद्भवकरः भूतानां भावः भूतभावः तस्य उद्भवः भूतभावोद्भवः तं करोतीति भूतभावोद्भवकरः, भूतवस्तूत्पत्तिकर इत्यर्थः। विसर्गः विसर्जनं देवतोद्देशेन चरुपुरोडाशादेः द्रव्यस्य परित्यागः; स ष विसर्गलक्षणो यज्ञः कर्मसंज्ञितः कर्मशब्दित इत्येतत्। तस्मात् हि बीजभूतात् वृष्ट्यादिक्रमेण स्थावरजङ्गमानि भूतानि उद्भवन्ति।।
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--Nagaraj PaturiHyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.Director, Inter-Gurukula-University Centre for Indic Knowledge Systems.BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, MaharashtraBoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, KeralaFormer Senior Professor of Cultural StudiesFLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
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Thanks, Sri G S S murthy-ji for that response which certainly helps me to make my expressions more accurate than earlier in connection with yajna -cloud relationship.It is true that the composition of clouds is essentially water vapour or water in a cloudy state.This awareness is evident in Gita where it is said that it is the Sun that pulls the water up and releases it back. The Sun here is as evident from different expressions in the Vedas and Vedic texts, includes many effects of the Sun including atmospheric temperatures.
एवं प्रवर्तितं चक्रं नानुवर्तयतीह यः |
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Dear scholars,
The Sloka अन्नात् भवन्ति भूतानि is difficult to explain. My understanding is as follows:
It can be explained by examining other verses which employ the world yajna in the Gita.
For instance, 3-9 says, यज्ञार्थात् कर्मणोन्यत्र .... in which the meaning for the word yajna is यज्ञो वै विष्णुः - for the sake of Vishnu, in other words, karma done with ईश्वरार्पण बुद्धिः
3-10 reads सहयज्ञाः प्रजाः .... in which सहयज्ञाः is a बहुव्रीहि, meaning "people who have been created inseparably with obligations". The human being is created along with certain obligations.
अनेन प्रसविष्यध्वम् means “by such harmonious actions you multiply/prosper”. It means that man is not the boss of the universe, but he has to live in harmony with it.
3-11 says देवान् भावयत … in which देवाः means इन्द्रादयः – various manifestations in nature. In other words, cosmic energy manifest in different forms. They should be harmony among the अधिभूत, अधिदैव and अध्यात्म levels. परस्परं भावयन्तः – mutually nourishing.
3-12 यज्ञभाविताः … nourished by yajna, which means desire-free actions, service oriented actions. The individual, व्यष्टि, has to contribute to the aggregate, समष्टि
3-13 यज्ञशिष्टाशिनः .... Those who enjoy after sharing with others. The concept of पञ्च महायज्ञाः are meant here.
3-14 अन्नात् भवन्ति भूतानि .... The whole world consists of रयि and प्राणम् (Prasnopanishad), matter and energy. अन्नम् is that which eats and also gets eaten. Thus it refers to the whole resources in the universe which are the life-source for the individual, the microcosm.
The next expression यज्ञात् भवति पर्जन्यः can be interpreted at a philosophical level to mean that by our harmonious actions with respect to the forces of nature, the nature also would be bountiful to us.
The Indian tradition has always respected nature. When we take a dip in a river we apologize to it. When we dig the earth we respectfully say मृत्तिके हन मे पापम् ...
3-16 एवं प्रवर्तितं चक्रं .... the wheel of interdependence and harmonious action. Nourishing the eco system which nourishes us.
Chapter – 4 of the Gita uses the word yajna metaphorically to mean any action done in the interest of समष्टि or any austerity leading to self-purification (4-28)
4-31 यज्ञशिष्टामृतभुजो .... after performing/fulfilling the societal/ethical obligations, what remains is शिष्टम्.
The Taittiriya Aranyakam (10-64) starting with तस्यैवं विदुषो यज्ञस्य आत्मा यजमानः, श्रद्धा पत्नी ... uses an extended metaphor describing how the whole lifetime is spent as a yajna by the spiritual seeker.
Aravinda Rao K.
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Your present response to the discussion on Yajna is very much consistent with that position of yours.I believe we are fooling ourselves if we believe that Vedas and Sanskrit writings contain hidden treasures of Science and Technology. Any money spent in that direction is money gone down the drain.Regards,Murthy
सहयज्ञाः प्रजाः सृष्ट्वा पुरोवाच प्रजापतिः ।
अनेन प्रसविष्यध्वमेष वोऽस्त्विष्टकामधुक् ॥ ३-१०॥
देवान्भावयतानेन ते देवा भावयन्तु वः ।
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पूर्विकरोपितवृक्षच्छाया वसतिः फलान्यशनमस्य ।
नवतरुरोपणमस्य न कार्यं कत्थति तरुरयं मे ॥
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Smoke is a mix of vapours, gases and fine particles whereas cloud is mass of water droplets suspended in air. Smoke does not cause cloud.
Thanks and regards,Murthy
Our ancients including the Gitacharya, Shankara rtc.had the guts to say that Vedas do not take us far. We should appreciate their attitude of not accepting everything and agree not to accept everything that has come down to us.
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 12:57, Nagaraj Paturi <nagara...@gmail.com> wrote:
Sri G S S Murthy-ji,Your question was answered in a greater detail in a previous post in the present thread at
On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:40 PM MVSSP AGNI <mvss...@gmail.com> wrote:
Respected scholars,I feel all of you saw the Sanskrit movie Adi Shankaracharya (1983). In that movie while explaing to the question of veda vyasa mahamuni on the brahma sutra of sadhanadhyaya तदन्तर प्रतिपत्तौ the sage sankara explains the Chandaogya upanishad verse असौवावलोको गौतमाग्निः -------------- वर्षस्संभवति ------------ यावदायुषं जीवति -- . I feel the procedure was explained there.In the following link you may get the mantras along with the video of the movie.Thank you.
On Mon 8 Jul, 2019, 12:11 PM Nagaraj Paturi, <nagara...@gmail.com> wrote:
Sri G S S Murthy-ji,I was teaching while this conversation was going on.Your question was> In the above diagram, how do fire-rituals cause clouds? <Answer: Fire-rituals produce smoke and this smoke forms into clouds.That is a well known observation.
On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 11:59 AM G S S Murthy <murt...@gmail.com> wrote:
Quoting an authority or a commentary is not what I am looking for. Just a commonsense cause-effect relationship.Regards,Murthy
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 11:29, Venkata Sriram <srira...@gmail.com> wrote:
Here, shrI madhusudana saraswathi gives further explanation:
अत्र कर्मोपयोगमाह यज्ञात्कारीर्यादेरग्निहोत्रादेश्चापूर्वाख्यात् धर्माद्भवति पर्जन्यः
Reference is given to कारीरेष्टि.rgs,sriram
On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 11:19:34 AM UTC+5:30, G S S Murthy wrote:
In the above diagram, how do fire-rituals cause clouds?Regards,Murthy
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 10:32, Krishna Kashyap <kkashy...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Sri Nagaraj Paturi Ji,Thanks a lot. I will take a deep look and may use your diagram for the class!
Best Regards,Krishna Kashyap
If people were created prior to earlier forms of life like reptiles, how did they get water to survive?
should be :if reptiles were created prior to human beings, how did they get water to survive, since they did not do any yajna (sacrifice).Best Regards,Krishna Kashyap
On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 10:14 PM Krishna Kashyap <kkashy...@gmail.com> wrote:
I was teaching 3rd chapter Gita: Verse: yajnAt bhavati parjanyaha.- meaning "yajna" caises rains. Thanks to Prof Kannan's small paper on Yajna. that was very useful.I was reading different vyakhyanas on this, stating a verse from : 'The oblations offered in fire reach the sun, and from the sun comes rain' (Manu, 3.76),
Then come the questions: did it rain before human beings were created? if so how.
Somehow, this chakra or cycle, is interpreted in different ways and nothing seems complete and clear.
Some state (abhinava gupta) that Yajna is much deeper than this. Yajna is process of experience. Sense objects are offerings to Indriyas, which are Devathas. Parjanya in this commentary is taken to be the experiencer.Some explain yajna as community work or in a way selfless work. Even though how can work cause rains? this is still a question.
I am looking for a deeper analysis of "Yajna" which is convincing to present day generation. in general and in particular to the chakra : annat bhavanti bhutani. I am l checking all the available commentaries on Gita.
If there is a thorough assessment of Yajna, it would be useful.
In wikipedia, However, connecting yajna as it is given in earlier texts such as:In the Upanishadic times, or after 500 BCE, states Sikora, the meaning of the term Yajna evolved from "ritual sacrifice" performed around fires by priests, to any "personal attitude and action or knowledge" that required devotion and dedication.[6] The oldest Vedic Upanishads, such as the Chandogya Upanishad (~700 BCE) in Chapter 8, for example state,[13]
No matter what the commentary is, a clear understanding regarding how devathas shower rain when pleased by yajna, has to be clearly explained. If people were created prior to earlier forms of life like reptiles, how did they get water to survive?
In some commentaries, the next verse evam pravarthitam chakram nanuvartyati cha yah..... which indicates a cycle, is not very clear.
The explanation of cycle is not coherent.
OR it may be stated that devatas showering rains, due to yajnas cannot be understood scientifically or logically. just trust in vedas.Best Regards,Krishna Kashyapsarvam sri krishnarpanam astuasmad gurubhyO namah
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--Nagaraj PaturiHyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.Director, Inter-Gurukula-University Centre for Indic Knowledge Systems.BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, MaharashtraBoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, KeralaFormer Senior Professor of Cultural StudiesFLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
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----Nagaraj PaturiHyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.Director, Inter-Gurukula-University Centre for Indic Knowledge Systems.BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, MaharashtraBoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, KeralaFormer Senior Professor of Cultural StudiesFLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
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----Nagaraj PaturiHyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.Director, Inter-Gurukula-University Centre for Indic Knowledge Systems.BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, MaharashtraBoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, KeralaFormer Senior Professor of Cultural StudiesFLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
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Many thanks Prof. Nagaraj ji for making available papers of Staal and Bronkhorst.
I could download Prof.Staal‘s paper which is very educative. I could not follow certain sections of the paper which need some knowledge of Western thinkers. His treatment of Panini’s system is very lucid. I could only access only the first page of Prof. Bronkhorst.
There is no question of undervaluing the Himalayan intellect of Panini who constructed the magnificent structure of ashtadhyayi. He was not in my view when I talked about “absence of a logical frame”.
My comments were specific to science and mathematics texts in Sanskrit. Instead of making general statements let me explain by a few examples.
These 2 verses are from Bhaskara’s Lilavati which states Pythagoras Theorem known in India since the time of Sulbasutras.
इष्टो बाहुर्यः स्यात् तत्स्पर्धिन्यां दिशीतरो बाहुः ।
त्र्यस्रे चतुरस्रे वा सा कोटिः कीर्तिता तज्ज्ञैः ॥ १॥
तत्कृत्योः योगपदं कर्णो दोःकर्णवर्गयोः विवरात् ।
मूलं कोटिः कोटिश्रुतिकृत्योरन्तराद्बाहुः ॥ २ ॥
Here तत्कृत्योः योगपदं कर्णो gives the Pythogoras formula. There is no mention of how it can be derived. A respected and reputed professor of mathematics (he is no more), told me that proofs are not given in Sanskrit texts and they give methods or formulas but not the logic behind the formula. Referring to some specific text he said that while detailing Pythogaras theorem, a diagram is shown with a remark, “पश्य”. They are more like books on geometrical construction which describe the method of construction but not the rationale behind it.
Here is another example from a Prakrit text on prosody वृत्तजातिसमुच्चय of Virahaanka..
“द्वौ द्वौ पूर्वविकल्पौ या या मेलयित्वा जायते
संख्या ।
सा उत्तरमात्रानां संख्याया एष निदेशः ॥६-४९ ॥“ [संस्कृतच्छाया]
This gives the formula for Fibonacci sequence and again a proof or explanation is missing.
F(n)=F(n-1)+F(n-2).
I do not know if this aspect has been studied in detail. I am subject to correction as there are so many Sanskrit texts on mathematics. Reason for lack of proof could be any one of the following:
1. Proofs were known and for their own reasons (secrecy or to exhibit wizardry?) authors did not write them down. Possibly proofs were transferred orally. (Any evidence?)
2. System of logical proof did not exist and that when a formula worked for a number of cases it was assumed that the formula was correct. (How do we reconcile this with the intellectual legacy of Panini?).
Then, one more point.
Why is it our science did not enable us to go beyond the wooden plow, the bullock cart and the pulley for drawing water? If we look at whatever we use daily we notice that other than our language, dress and customs (which are also mixed up) nothing is of Indian origin. Is it because we concentrated on knowing that by knowing which nothing else need be known?
Thanks and Warm Regards,
Murthy
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1. I went to the website and glanced through info. Available. It speaks of Kerala's contribution of Kerala to mathematics.
2. You certainly make a point when you say that conditions that existed would have thwarted a healthy development of science and mathematics. It is also possible that some valuable works were lost due to burning, marauding, etc.
3. Lilavati is not a book on rituals. It is a book on mathematics. It is strange that it does not provide derivations. Do any of Kerala mathematicians provide the logic behind their results?
4. To say Vedas were lost and they might have contained precious knowledge does not add to our knowledge. They can neither be proved nor disproved.
5. When you talk of Arundhati star or time dilatation having been known in India, I do not know how they could be given any weight. Development of Science is structured each one building up on what exists, sometimes demolishing it too. I am unable to see such a structure in Indian Science.
6. As for vaimanika shastra it is I believe established that it is a hoax like Vedic mathematics.
Many thanks for your thought provoking notes.वादे वादे जायते तत्त्वबोधः
Warm regards
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ऋ॒चो अ॒क्षरे॑ पर॒मे व्यो॑म॒न्यस्मिं॑दे॒वा अधि॒ विश्वे॑ निषे॒दुः ।
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Chair Professor, IIT-Madras.
Senior Fellow, ICSSR, New Delhi.
Academic Director, Swadeshi Indology.
Nominated Member, IIAS, Shimla.
Former Professor, CAHC, Jain University, Bangalore.
Former Director, Karnataka Samskrit University, Bangalore.
Former Principal, Evening College, Samskrit University, Bangalore.
Former Head, Dept. of Sanskrit, The
National Colleges, Bangalore.
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----Nagaraj PaturiHyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.Director, Inter-Gurukula-University Centre for Indic Knowledge Systems.BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, MaharashtraBoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, KeralaFormer Senior Professor of Cultural StudiesFLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
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Dear Sri G S S Murthy-ji,1. Your approach to ancient Indian 'sciences' and technology was made by clear by you long time ago when you declared that it was a wasteful exercise to try to find sciences and technology in ancient Sanskrit texts. As an immediate response toyou unambiguously declared atthat
I believe we are fooling ourselves if we believe that Vedas and Sanskrit writings contain hidden treasures of Science and Technology. Any money spent in that direction is money gone down the drain.Regards,Murthy
Your present response to the discussion on Yajna is very much consistent with that position of yours.2. Meanwhile, there is a great work, drawing knowledge useful for contemporary life from the ancient Sanskrit literature. There is some information related to this in that thread itself where you made your post above.3. Problem with your approach can be exemplified through the case of your way of looking at the question of S'abda being mentioned as the guṇa of ākāśa .You say, "If they had a clear idea of vacuum and that sound is a form of mechanical vibration, they would not have made that observation."Here you yourself decide that they meant vacuum by ākāśa and and then proceed to declare that their view "sabdaguNakam aakaasah" was wrong on that basis.That the ancient Indians had a clear understanding of how sound is produced and is spread was shown by Dr Sivasenani Nori-ji atWhen someone says that A is the quality of B, he does not mean that B is the medium of A. So sabdaguNakam aakaasah does not mean aakaasa is the medium of sabda. .It is prudent to think that since no one, even the stupidest of humans ever can see sound being produced by sky or vacuum, no one can be imagined to have averred that sound is the quality of sky or vacuum. So anyone who translates for onself sabdaguNakam aakaasah as " śabda is the quality of sky or vacuum would immediately realise that one's translation of ākāśa as sky or vacuum itself must be wrong.Just recently there was this thread on BVP :why participants in that thread were trying to figure out what was meant by ākāśa was this common sense only that if such rigorous s'āstrakāras were saying that s'abda is the guṇa of ākāśa , there must be some point in that. Since the translation "Sound is the quality of sky" is resulting in an obviously stupid statement stupidity in which is not consistent with the rigor and intelligence displayed by those who made the original Sanskrit statement, there must be something wrong in the English translation -- is the line of thinking that was running throughout that discussion. That discussion was inconclusive but nevertheless on the right lines because it was based on the principle of consistency that stupidity found from the translation is inconsistent with the intelligence displayed otherwise by the makers of the original Sanskrit statement hence the wrong should lie with the translation.
3. This approach of doubting the validity of translation does not always arise out of religious respect towards the maker of the translated original statement. Even if one were to hear an obviously stupid statement as a translation of the statement made by a forsest-dweller's culture of some remote continent, the suspicion always is on the validity of the translation itself and not on the sanity of the maker of the original statement.
4. Similarly, when we try to make sense of statements such as यज्ञाद्भवति पर्जन्यः , we try to see sense in the statement, not necessarily out of some religious respect towards the text or its author. Trying to make sense need not be viewed as forcing justification.5. यज्ञ is not limited to rain making or making rain into a fertilizing rain or a cloud-seeding-like activity or any such rain related activity alone. यज्ञ was and is performed for many other results and with many other purposes. Here , in this context, one of all those numerous benefits of yajna is being focused on.In this very adhyāya from where the verses under discussion have been chosen, just a few verses earlier, we haveसहयज्ञाः प्रजाः सृष्ट्वा पुरोवाच प्रजापतिः ।
अनेन प्रसविष्यध्वमेष वोऽस्त्विष्टकामधुक् ॥ ३-१०॥
yajna is being called इष्टकामधुक् here.In the immediately next verse, Yajna is being described as a mutual give and take between 'nature forces' and humans. ( That Vedic devatas were nothing but 'nature forces' has been there right from the days of the crudest modern understanding of the Vedic texts. )देवान्भावयतानेन ते देवा भावयन्तु वः ।
परस्परं भावयन्तः श्रेयः परमवाप्स्यथ ॥ ३-११॥This particular verse is strikingly significant because this is the verse which very clearly establishes that among1. nature-dominating2. nature-fearing and3. nature-friendlyapproaches towards nature, Vedic approach was that of #3. (That modern S & T is seen as having the worldview of #1 above is well known. Stereotyped primitive man descriptions are on the lines of # 2 above.)That this परस्परं भावयन्तः is very much in line with the contemporary environmentalist understanding is obvious.6. Based on the enormous amount of literature on the elaborate procedures of yajnas, sophisticated understanding such as that of geometry found in such books dealing with yajna procedures etc., it is prudent to think that yajna was not some nonsensical activity. When we try to make sense of statements such asयज्ञाद्भवति पर्जन्यः, we proceed on those lines. When anything in those lines is found to be stupid during the understanding of such lines, we find fault with our understanding of the lines and not with the original lines, for this reason.Warm regards,Nagaraj
On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 3:46 PM G S S Murthy <murt...@gmail.com> wrote:
Many thanks for the elucidation provided by Prof. Nagaraj-ji. "Certain smokes cause healthy rains was an ancient belief." Yes, I agree there. Heavy conflagrations like forest fires, which produce large quantities of obnoxious gases could affect the composition of rain. But to extrapolate and say that smoke arising from yajnas cause rain is not justified.In my view, our ancients generalized on the basis of their observations, which were gross. There is nothing wrong in accepting that they were wrong sometimes. I may be straying here. But let me say. They said, "sabdaguNakam aakaasah". They endowed "aakaasha" with the quality of "sound"..If they had a clear idea of vacuum and that sound is a form of mechanical vibration, they would not have made that observation. We need not and should not defend such statements. Our ancients including the Gitacharya, Shankara rtc.had the guts to say that Vedas do not take us far. We should appreciate their attitude of not accepting everything and agree not to accept everything that has come down to us. I am aware that my view is limited by my horizon of knowledge and those who know more may excuse me. Sorry for straying.
Thanks and regards,Murthy
On Tue, 9 Jul 2019 at 02:29, Nagaraj Paturi <nagara...@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks, Sri G S S murthy-ji for that response which certainly helps me to make my expressions more accurate than earlier in connection with yajna -cloud relationship.It is true that the composition of clouds is essentially water vapour or water in a cloudy state.This awareness is evident in Gita where it is said that it is the Sun that pulls the water up and releases it back. The Sun here is as evident from different expressions in the Vedas and Vedic texts, includes many effects of the Sun including atmospheric temperatures.Thus smoke forms clouds is not an accurate expression.But certain smokes lead to acid rains is a contemporary observation. Certain smokes cause healthy rains was an ancient belief. Whether it is accurate or not to say that acid rains are caused by 'bad' clouds, when acid forming elements are included in the view of a 'cloud' , it sounds reasonable to think that acid rains come from a bad cloud. In the same way the cloud that is believed to be participating in fertilizing rains can be viewed as a healthy cloud. If an acid rain causing smoke generating activity is viewed as a bad activity, activity that is believed to lead to fertilizing rain can be believed to be a good activity. Parjanyah is the cloud and the fertilizing good effect getting added to it put together.
On Mon, Jul 8, 2019, 9:02 PM G S S Murthy <murt...@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks, Prof.Nagarajji for the explanation. Smoke is a mix of vapours, gases and fine particles whereas cloud is mass of water droplets suspended in air. Smoke does not cause cloud.
Thanks and regards,Murthy
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 12:57, Nagaraj Paturi <nagara...@gmail.com> wrote:
Sri G S S Murthy-ji,
Your question was answered in a greater detail in a previous post in the present thread at
On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:40 PM MVSSP AGNI <mvssp...@gmail.com> wrote:
Respected scholars,I feel all of you saw the Sanskrit movie Adi Shankaracharya (1983). In that movie while explaing to the question of veda vyasa mahamuni on the brahma sutra of sadhanadhyaya तदन्तर प्रतिपत्तौ the sage sankara explains the Chandaogya upanishad verse असौवावलोको गौतमाग्निः -------------- वर्षस्संभवति ------------ यावदायुषं जीवति -- . I feel the procedure was explained there.In the following link you may get the mantras along with the video of the movie.Thank you.
On Mon 8 Jul, 2019, 12:11 PM Nagaraj Paturi, <nagara...@gmail.com> wrote:
Sri G S S Murthy-ji,
I was teaching while this conversation was going on.Your question was> In the above diagram, how do fire-rituals cause clouds? <Answer: Fire-rituals produce smoke and this smoke forms into clouds.That is a well known observation.
On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 11:59 AM G S S Murthy <murt...@gmail.com> wrote:
Quoting an authority or a commentary is not what I am looking for. Just a commonsense cause-effect relationship.Regards,Murthy
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 11:29, Venkata Sriram <srira...@gmail.com> wrote:
Here, shrI madhusudana saraswathi gives further explanation:
अत्र कर्मोपयोगमाह यज्ञात्कारीर्यादेरग्निहोत्रादेश्चापूर्वाख्यात् धर्माद्भवति पर्जन्यः
Reference is given to कारीरेष्टि.rgs,sriram
On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 11:19:34 AM UTC+5:30, G S S Murthy wrote:
In the above diagram, how do fire-rituals cause clouds?Regards,Murthy
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 10:32, Krishna Kashyap <kkashy...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Sri Nagaraj Paturi Ji,Thanks a lot. I will take a deep look and may use your diagram for the class!
Best Regards,Krishna Kashyap
If people were created prior to earlier forms of life like reptiles, how did they get water to survive?
should be :
if reptiles were created prior to human beings, how did they get water to survive, since they did not do any yajna (sacrifice).
Best Regards,Krishna Kashyap
On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 10:14 PM Krishna Kashyap <kkashy...@gmail.com> wrote:
I was teaching 3rd chapter Gita: Verse: yajnAt bhavati parjanyaha.- meaning "yajna" caises rains. Thanks to Prof Kannan's small paper on Yajna. that was very useful.I was reading different vyakhyanas on this, stating a verse from : 'The oblations offered in fire reach the sun, and from the sun comes rain' (Manu, 3.76),
Then come the questions: did it rain before human beings were created? if so how.
Somehow, this chakra or cycle, is interpreted in different ways and nothing seems complete and clear.
Some state (abhinava gupta) that Yajna is much deeper than this. Yajna is process of experience. Sense objects are offerings to Indriyas, which are Devathas. Parjanya in this commentary is taken to be the experiencer.Some explain yajna as community work or in a way selfless work. Even though how can work cause rains? this is still a question.
I am looking for a deeper analysis of "Yajna" which is convincing to present day generation. in general and in particular to the chakra : annat bhavanti bhutani. I am l checking all the available commentaries on Gita.
If there is a thorough assessment of Yajna, it would be useful.
In wikipedia, However, connecting yajna as it is given in earlier texts such as:In the Upanishadic times, or after 500 BCE, states Sikora, the meaning of the term Yajna evolved from "ritual sacrifice" performed around fires by priests, to any "personal attitude and action or knowledge" that required devotion and dedication.[6] The oldest Vedic Upanishads, such as the Chandogya Upanishad (~700 BCE) in Chapter 8, for example state,[13]
No matter what the commentary is, a clear understanding regarding how devathas shower rain when pleased by yajna, has to be clearly explained. If people were created prior to earlier forms of life like reptiles, how did they get water to survive?
In some commentaries, the next verse evam pravarthitam chakram nanuvartyati cha yah..... which indicates a cycle, is not very clear.
The explanation of cycle is not coherent.
OR it may be stated that devatas showering rains, due to yajnas cannot be understood scientifically or logically. just trust in vedas.
Best Regards,Krishna Kashyapsarvam sri krishnarpanam astuasmad gurubhyO namah
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----Nagaraj PaturiHyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.Director, Inter-Gurukula-University Centre for Indic Knowledge Systems.BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, MaharashtraBoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, KeralaFormer Senior Professor of Cultural StudiesFLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
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----Nagaraj PaturiHyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.Director, Inter-Gurukula-University Centre for Indic Knowledge Systems.BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, MaharashtraBoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, KeralaFormer Senior Professor of Cultural StudiesFLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
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Best Regards,Krishna Kashyap</