Source of Shiva Tandava Stotram

[venkat veeraraghavan]

Dear Vidvans,

Namaskarams,

Can anyone provide the root source (text) that gives the "Shiva Tandava Stotram"?

I remember reading somewhere there was a version of the Shiva Tandava Stotram written by Shri Rama.

Is there any source for both ?

Thanks,

Venkat

[shankara]

Venkat ji,

Please find attached VS Agrawala's paper on Sivatandavastotra. He makes following observations.

1. This stotra does not form part of any Purana.

2. Its composition may be the work of some brilliant poet of the Rashtrakuta age in Deccan in 8th century CE.

regards
shankara

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[venkat veeraraghavan]

Dear Shri Shankara ji,

Thanks for the paper.

One thing that doesn't make sense to me is this:

1. Why would any poet even a bad one, even one just starting out put Ravana's name on his creation?

The opposite has happened as in the case of Dharmi taking Shiva's poem to the King of Madurai (periapuranam) ... it is hard to believe anyone would put someone else's name on an obviously brilliant piece of work!

My 2 cents

Kind Regards,

Venkat  

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[shankara]

Venkat ji,

There are plenty of instances where stotras attributed Sankaracharya and Kalidasa are said to be the creations of later poets. So, this is not an isolated instance of disputed authorship.

regards
shankara

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[venkat veeraraghavan]

Disputed authorship is widely present in current understanding of the past, what however is not clear is the reason for this, unless there was a desire to pervert the meaning of a text. There is an existing issue about the authorship of the Srimad Bhagavatam too which is frequently attributed to Vopa Deva. But still the motives remain unclear or maybe the people at present are not reading the past correctly. 

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

The mention of Ravana occurs in the phalastuti only :

पूजाऽवसानसमये दशवक्रत्रगीतं

यः शम्भूपूजनमिदं पठति प्रदोषे ।

तस्य स्थिरां रथगजेंद्रतुरंगयुक्तां

लक्ष्मी सदैव सुमुखीं प्रददाति शम्भुः ॥17॥

But it mentions das'avaktra in third person. 

दृषद्विचित्रतल्पयोर्भुजंग मौक्तिकमस्रजो-

र्गरिष्ठरत्नलोष्टयोः सुहृद्विपक्षपक्षयोः ।

तृणारविंदचक्षुषोः प्रजामहीमहेन्द्रयोः

समं प्रवर्तयन्मनः कदा सदाशिवं भजे ॥12॥

 

कदा निलिंपनिर्झरी निकुजकोटरे वसन्‌

विमुक्तदुर्मतिः सदा शिरःस्थमंजलिं वहन्‌।

विमुक्तलोललोचनो ललामभाललग्नकः

शिवेति मंत्रमुच्चरन्‌ कदा सुखी भवाम्यहम्‌॥13॥

The expressions in the 12 th and the 13th verses resemble expressions of bhakta authors in their keertanas. 

Probably that is what prompts researchers to try to identify non-mythological / historical / human author of it.  

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.

Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education, 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

 

 

[venkat veeraraghavan]

Dear Shri Paturi Garu,

You bring a valid point regarding Ravana being mentioned in third person, but since we have no sample of Ravana's authentic works atleast in public view, we dont know what his "mudra" was.

Shri Thyagaraja refers to himself in the third person in his Krithis.. "Thyagaraja sannuta.." (Although in his case it can be argued that he was referring to the Deity of Thiruvarur Thyagaraja Swami)

One sees a similar quirk in the works of other Bhakti poets "Tulasidas sadaa hari chera" "Tuka maNe" "Kahat Kabir" and so on...I think someone started this and everyone has been following this form ever since.. ;-)

Regards,

Venkat

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[Madhav Deshpande]

Dear Shri Veeraraghavan,

     Such names are not unheard of.  There is a Vedic Bhāṣya attributed to one Rāvaṇa.  There is a Kavi named Rākṣasa, and the minister of the Nanda, as depicted in Mudrārākṣasa, is famously named Rākṣasa.

Madhav M. Deshpande

Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics

University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]

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[venkat veeraraghavan]

Dear Shri Madhav ji

There may as you say have been other Ravana(s) but how do we fix which one it is? You have to agree it is not a very common name though. I expect there are not a lot of people named "Judas" especially post the age of the literature that brings up the negative references.

Human nature it would seem is pretty uniform across race..:)

Its interesting that you brought up Nanda's minister Rakshasa ..I was reminded of the Chandragupta Maurya serial where the costume designers had a unique "look" planned for "amaatya" Rakshas as they called him ... ;-) 

Check him out if you have the time..for laughs if for nothing else.

Interestingly Malana village and similar villages away from normal "civilisation" around the Hidimba mandir in Himachal speak a language called Rakshasi.

Kind Regards,

Venkat

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[Irene Galstian]

Venkat ji,

'Judas' is Yehudah, which was and is an auspicious Jewish name, though in English it would be more commonly seen as Jude. Numerous people under this name appear in both the Tanak and the New Testament, so the name isn't restricted to the unfortunate apostle. 

Best wishes,

Irene

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[K S Kannan]

Sri Venkat Veeraraghavan does not seem to be aware of Mudra-rakshasa.

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Dr. K.S.Kannan  D.Litt.

​Sant Rajinder Singh Ji Maharaj Chair Professor, IIT-Madras.

Senior Fellow, ICSSR, New Delhi.

Academic Director, Swadeshi Indology.

Member, Academic Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthana.

Nominated Member, IIAS, Shimla.

Former Professor, CAHC, Jain University, Bangalore.

Former Director, Karnataka Samskrit University, Bangalore.

Former Head, Dept. of Sanskrit, The National Colleges, Bangalore.

[venkat veeraraghavan]

Dear Smt Irene ji,

I was making a comment about human nature that tends to avoid certain names post certain seminal works..It is entirely possible as you say for other people with similar names to have existed during that epoch, but afterwards people being what they are tend to go "with the flow"..

The rise of names like Jude nowadays comes in two segments of people 1. The clueless "religious" people much like modern "Hindus" who name their child "Vihaan" etc.. and 2. The counter culture that rose in modern times as a way of cocking a snook at the church.

I am willing to bet as the Church got stronger, Judas was a very uncommon name (although auspicious as you point out) in Christian controlled territory..

The reason why I mentioned Malana-Rakshasi-isolated before is that when mainstream mixing happens people tend to gravitate towards a common "culture" / "hive mind" --path of least resistance call it what you might so that they can "blend in".

When a culture purposely keeps  themselves secluded from mainstream society they have a better chance of "following their own drum beat"...Also with a language/dialect called Rakshasi..it would not be uncommon to name a child "Rakshasa"..that bit was meant as a segue to Dr. Deshpande mentioning Rakshasa who was Nanda's amaatya.

Apparently I swallowed all the detail and embraced brevity in the spirit of Sanskrit Grammarians. I tell you all this sangha is rubbing off on me!

;-)

Regards,

Venkat

On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 11:24 PM Irene Galstian <gnos...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[venkat veeraraghavan]

No Sir I am not, but thank you for introducing me to it. Will check it out!!!

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[Irene Galstian]

Dear Venkat ji,

You've got the whole thing in hand, mine was a small FYI, nothing major. 

I'll float on towards the cup of tea and Pink Panther cartoons I've been looking forward to. :-)

Best wishes,

Irene

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[venkat veeraraghavan]

Dear Smt Irene Ji

No issues at all. I learnt something new from your post about the Hebrew origins of Judas' name. Afterall they were all Jews weren't they? Including the main man?

Pink Panther is too subtle for me. I prefer Tom and Jerry. I used to root for Jerry when I was younger. Now that I have grown older and (hopefully) wiser(?) I realise that Jerry carries pathogens and is not as "cute" or dignified in real life. 

I prefer to watch Tom beat Jerry with the house-owner's saucepan.

Old-school but very effective.

Regards,

V

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[Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan]

There is/was a rAvaNa-bhAshya on the vaisheShika-sUtra-s known as the kaTandI, but I have not heard of a Vedic-bhAshya. Information from Matilal's book on nyAya-vaisheShika literature is attached. It's notable that vaisheShika-s consider Siva as their Adi guru. Tamil smArta-s also recite two nyAsa-s - pa~ncA~Nga-rudra-nyAsa and the pa~nca-mukha-nyAsa, which they call rAvaNoktam, before the one elaborated by bodhAyana. Ravana could have been considered a reasonable name in those times. 

Ramakrishnan

On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 12:10 PM Madhav Deshpande <mmd...@umich.edu> wrote:

Dear Shri Veeraraghavan,

     Such names are not unheard of.  There is a Vedic Bhāṣya attributed to one Rāvaṇa.  There is a Kavi named Rākṣasa, and the minister of the Nanda, as depicted in Mudrārākṣasa, is famously named Rākṣasa.

Madhav M. Deshpande

Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics

University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]

1

[Venkata Sriram]

Namaste,

There was a great veera-shaiva saint & siddha yogi by name रेवण सिद्ध योगी.  He was great shiva bhakta.  May be, he might have put रावण: (दशग्रीवः) to conceal his identity.

And, in due course of time, due to semantic changes, it came to be known as रावण: of rAmAyaNa fame.

It's purely my guess..

rgs,

sriram

[V Subrahmanian]

On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 1:41 AM Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan <b.ra...@gmail.com> wrote:

There is/was a rAvaNa-bhAshya on the vaisheShika-sUtra-s known as the kaTandI, but I have not heard of a Vedic-bhAshya. Information from Matilal's book on nyAya-vaisheShika literature is attached. It's notable that vaisheShika-s consider Siva as their Adi guru.

This information is interesting. Are there any textual evidences like mangala shloka, etc. on this in their texts? Does Nyaya also adopt this aspect of VaisheShika?  It is notable since this extremely ancient Aastika darshana has Siva as their Aadi Guru.  Do they hold this deity as their 'Ishwara', the  nimitta kaaraNam for the jagat, as well?  

warm regards

subrahmanian.v

[venkat veeraraghavan]

Dear Shri Balasubramanian ji:

"Tamil smArta-s also recite two nyAsa-s - pa~ncA~Nga-rudra-nyAsa and the pa~nca-mukha-nyAsa, which they call rAvaNoktam, before the one elaborated by bodhAyana."

Are you here referring to the nyasa for Gayatri in sandhyavandana?

Panchanga would imply the nyasa on trinetra  is omitted?

Can you please give sources for this please?

I keep learning new things about my own hoary tradition. 

Any idea why Bodhayana changed the defacto?

Not related to the main question, but is there a fixed source on the minimum nyasa required for Gayatri Japa?

Many thanks,

Regards,

Venkat

On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 1:41 AM Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan <b.ra...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan]

This is the bodhAyanoktam mahAnyAsam I am talking about. You can find it in the gRhya parishiShTa describing rudrAbhiShekham. The sUtras are available on archive.org. A simple search should get it for you. Bodhayana did not change anything - he gave a procedure. But Tamil smartas add 2 things in front which they call rAvaNoktam. If you can read Tamil please see attachment (Footnote) from the vaidikavardhini publication on mahAnyAsam. 

Subbuji, the vaisheShika school was generally shaivite - this is not disputed. Ravana’s bhAshya is lost. If you need other publication details, please consult Matilal’s book. 

Ramakrishnan 

On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 3:40 AM venkat veeraraghavan <vvenk...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Shri Balasubramanian ji:

"Tamil smArta-s also recite two nyAsa-s - pa~ncA~Nga-rudra-nyAsa and the pa~nca-mukha-nyAsa, which they call rAvaNoktam, before the one elaborated by bodhAyana."

Are you here referring to the nyasa for Gayatri in sandhyavandana?

Panchanga would imply the nyasa on trinetra  is omitted?

Can you please give sources for this please?

I keep learning new things about my own hoary tradition. 

Any idea why Bodhayana changed the defacto?

Not related to the main question, but is there a fixed source on the minimum nyasa required for Gayatri Japa?

Many thanks,

Regards,

Venkat

On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 1:41 AM Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan <b.ra...@gmail.com> wrote:

There is/was a rAvaNa-bhAshya on the vaisheShika-sUtra-s known as the kaTandI, but I have not heard of a Vedic-bhAshya. Information from Matilal's book on nyAya-vaisheShika literature is attached. It's notable that vaisheShika-s consider Siva as their Adi guru. Tamil smArta-s also recite two nyAsa-s - pa~ncA~Nga-rudra-nyAsa and the pa~nca-mukha-nyAsa, which they call rAvaNoktam, before the one elaborated by bodhAyana. Ravana could have been considered a reasonable name in those times. 

Ramakrishnan

WN-CZqtuDG3TbiVTOwr4%2BnDbFEkSmNd7yvv3Q1DsWdThaUBw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

The famous Sivamahimna stotram is mentioned invariably to be composed by Pushpadanta, a gandharva. 

My pitrpaada, a sakalas'aastrapaarngata traditional scholar proposed his thesis with overwhelming evidences that this Pushpadanta is none other than Katyayana Vararuchi, one of the munitraya of the Vyakarana shaastra. 

I shall soon share the evidences.

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[Madhav Deshpande]

Dear Shri Ramakrishnan,

     On p. iv of his introduction to his translation of the Aitareya Brāhmaṇa, Martin Haug refers to a Rāvaṇa-Bhāṣya:

"The so-called Kauśika Bhāṣya is said to be more ancient than that of Sāyaṇa, and also the Rāvaṇa Bhāṣya. Both

are said to be still extant, but I have not yet been able to obtain copies of them."

Madhav M. Deshpande

Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics

University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]

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[Dr. T. Ganesan]

Probably these 2 nyAsa-s are related to Sri RudramahAnyasa prescribed by Maharshi Bodhayana ...

Ganesan

[Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan]

Thank you Prof. Deshpande. It's interesting, but I do wonder if Haug got confused by the rAvaNa-baiTha, which according to Aithal's bibliography exists for both the Rg and the Krishna-yajur veda-s in manuscripts. In some sense they would aid understanding of the texts, but wouldn't be a bhAShya. Gonda does not mention this bhAShya in his book in the History of Indian Literature series.

Ramakrishnan

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[Madhav Deshpande]

As Haug says, he had heard about this Ravavabhashya, but not seen it and was unable to get hold of it. I don’t know if the NCC records any manuscripts of this work. 

Madhav Deshpande 

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[K S Kannan]

A work on nADI-s'Astra is also said to be written by Ravana,  and even a work on tantra.

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[Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan]

A quite productive life, if all these were from the same Ravana 😀

Ramakrishnan 

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[shankara]

Namaste,

Fragments of Ravana's Rig Veda Bhashya were published in the journal of Asiatic Society of Bengal vol 31, 1832 ed. by FE Hall. FE Hall compiled the commentary from Suryapandita's Bhagavad Gita bhashya.

Link to Ravanabhashya fragments ed by F.E. Hall.

https://archive.org/details/journalofasiati311862asia/page/129

Available portions of Ravanabhashya were published with Hindi translation and a study by Sudhir Kumar Gupta in 1967.

PDF of the smae is attached herewith.

regards
shankara

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[Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan]

Fantastic! Thank you, Shankaraji.

Ramakrishnan 

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[Madhav Deshpande]

Thank you, Shankara Ji.  This is a wonderful find.

Madhav M. Deshpande

Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics

University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]

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[Madhav Deshpande]

Here is one more Rāvaṇa text, a so-called Rāvaṇa-Saṃhitā.  The pdf of an incomplete scan is available here:

https://archive.org/details/101_20191108/page/n7

Madhav M. Deshpande

Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics

University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]