Newton and Surya Siddhanta

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Aravinda Rao

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Jun 9, 2018, 12:06:30 PM6/9/18
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This is a mail sent by a friend and forwarded for perusal of those knowledgeable in the field.

Aravinda Rao K

"This is a video where an expert historian talks about how colonial British used Newton for friction-less dissemination of western knowledge into Asia, and to subjugate indigenous knowledge in astronomy (of India) by relegating it as unimportant and pagan. 

No wonder why we Indians always felt subservient and inferior to western science, the thought that was implanted by the colonial invaders.  Even now, we can't seem to come out of that shell and make new discoveries/inventions! 

https://youtu.be/YeKWqoiMo3Y  

Watch around the 30th minute of this rather long lecture, if you want to skip to the important parts. You may share this with your progressive thinking friends in India and outside". 


Dr.C.S.R. Prabhu

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Jun 10, 2018, 12:54:48 AM6/10/18
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This video also  has the underpinnings of acknowledgement by the speaker and also many of  the then British officers of existence of advanced sciences as astronomy in ancient Sanskrit texts such as Suryasiddhanta and also their mysterious connection with monuments 
Ugh as the Stone Henge

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Nagaraj Paturi

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Jun 10, 2018, 12:54:48 PM6/10/18
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>  This is a video where an expert historian talks about how colonial British used Newton for friction-less dissemination of western knowledge into Asia, and to subjugate indigenous knowledge in astronomy (of India) by relegating it as unimportant and pagan. 

                                                                                                    -friend of Dr K Aravinda Rao garu

------- What we have to note is that Newton is taught not just to Indians but to students of mainstream contemporary academics all over the world. So to imagine that Newton is was specially used against Indians, if that is the view here, is wrong. If the idea here is that the Britishers knew that there was great astronomical knowledge in India but did not include that in the Astronomy or Physics that they taught to Indian students, out of a conspiracy, even that is misplaced because it is the nature of contemporary academics all over the world that they don't include any indigenous alternative to the ideas of modern science in the courses on the respective modern sciences. But it can be argued that they could have, at least separately, taught Indic Knowledge Systems to Indian students. But why would they do it? It does not suit their political strategy and agenda. 

( We, at MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, have a course for our MSc students on the history of Sanskrit Studies in India , from the point of view of whether or not the departments of Sanskrit taught Indic Knowledge Systems, if no why, if yes, how etc.)

Sanskrit departments were conceived on the lines of language and literature departments such as departments of English in their own universities. As such, they focused on specialities such as saahitya, vyaakaraNa, nyaaya and vedaanta. S'aastras such as jyotisha were seldom covered under these. 

For the youngsters studying Newton, Kepler, Ptolemy etc., even post-independence text books did not introduce Soorya Sinddhaanta and so on. Why did not we , even after Independence, introduce Indic Knowledge Systems, at least as parallel to the modern knowledge systems?

Let us focus on this. 

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Nagaraj Paturi
 
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
 
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
 
(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
 
 
 

Madhav Deshpande

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Jun 10, 2018, 1:29:00 PM6/10/18
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Dear Nagaraj Ji,

     From the very early period of British rule, the British were deeply interested in the "useful" Hindu sciences, especially Dharmaśāstra and Jyotiṣa.  Below I have listed a few of the early translations of mathematical and astronomical works.
     In setting up the Pune Sanskrit Pathashala in 1823, the British were clearly interested in promoting the "useful" subjects, especially Dharmaśāstra and Jyotiṣa.  The salary for the teachers of "useful" subjects was higher than that for the teachers of Veda.  
     


by b 1114 Bhaskaracarya and H T. 1765-1837 Colebrooke

by Ebenezer Burgess

by American Oriental Society



Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus
Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan
[Residence: Campbell, California]

Nagaraj Paturi

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Jun 10, 2018, 2:21:41 PM6/10/18
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Respected Sri Madhav-ji,

Thanks for mentioning this information. 

The point is exactly this; that the British were aware of the Astromical knowledge in Sooryasiddhaanta etc. The hypothesis /thesis being discussed is whether they used Newton to relegate this information to insignificance. I was saying that we need not go for a conspiracy theory of that sort because introducing Newton was part of introducing modern sciences in general just as pat of what was happening all over the world. 

"Were these "Useful" 'Hindu Sciences' taught to the students to whom Newton was taught?" -- is the question brought for discussion here. It is clear that they were not. Why were they not taught? The hypothesis being made in the text quoted in the thread initiating post is that they were not taught to the Newton-learning students with the intention of using Newton to play down the greatness of the "useful" 'Hindu science' in Sooryasiddhaanta. 

--------------------------------

There are two points here:

There are some Indians who have a religiously strong conviction that it is waste of time and money to look for scientific knowledge in ancient Sanskrit literature. This conviction of them is rooted in their worship of the British and other western nations and their exclusive ability in doing anything scientific. But it is their 'gods' , the British who brought out the books mentioned by you. Hope these  bhaktas  of the British/west agree now with the factuality of scientific knowledge in ancient Sanskrit literature because the references cited by you show that their 'gods' brought out this scientific knowledge in ancient Sanskrit texts. 

The second point is, if the British did not teach these to the students learning Newon, we can do it now. Let us do it. 

is the point that I was making. 


Madhav Deshpande

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Jun 10, 2018, 2:52:33 PM6/10/18
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Dear Nagaraj Ji,

     You are making excellent points.  To add to these, I would like to point out that the resistance to studying Sanskrit and ancient sciences came not from the British but from the Indians themselves, as known from several instances.  The British wanted to use Marathi as the medium of instruction in the early Deccan College (1860s), but the students resisted this and insisted on English as the medium of instruction.  This is probably due to the perception of the job market at that time.  This is also similar to Lokamanya Tilak opening the New English School in Pune, rather than a Sanskrit Pathashala, as was the demand from some quarters.  Tilak's belief was that without modernity, Indians will not be able to fight the British.  So often it is not what the British did to us, but what the Indians themselves saw as being beneficial to them in those times.  This is also similar to Venkaṭādhvari's critique of the Maharashtrian Brahmins in his Viśvaguṇādarśa that they have left behind the study of Sanskrit and the Vedas and are rushing to study Persian, because good jobs in those days required proficiency in Persian.  The current demand in India for English education is also directly related to the wide-spread perception that only English education gets you a good job.  How to change this situation is a big problem.  Hope some solutions will emerge in the future.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus
Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan
[Residence: Campbell, California]

Bijoy Misra

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Jun 10, 2018, 3:18:18 PM6/10/18
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Dear Madhavji,
Fundamentally it is different.  When British killed the indigenous training and instituted English as the medium, people had 
to find a way to overcome the handicap.  We are all slaves to this maneuver.  I was awakened when somebody here wanted
to teach me Odia, because he knew the alphabet.  The damage and the marketing have been severe.  We needed English
in order to present our case to the British people.  Whosoever in British created the strategy of slavery possibly knew how
to disorient people.  Some rightists are trying that in the US in a modern way, but there would always be people who listen
to the top.  Indian youth looking at the US is no exception.  Occupation destroys nations.  It was good that indian heritage 
did not die, but it needs a good economy to help it blossom.  India will rise, but it might not happen in our life time!
Best regards,
Bijoy Misra
Boston, US
         

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Nagaraj Paturi
 
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
 
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
 
(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
 
 
 

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Nagaraj Paturi
 
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
 
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
 
(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
 
 
 

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Nagaraj Paturi

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Jun 10, 2018, 6:10:45 PM6/10/18
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I don't know how and why we got digressed into medium of instruction, while our topic wss the content of the courses.

The famous book " The Beautiful Tree"  already enlightened us all about how the indigenous schools which were huge in number were replaced by the British schools.

As far as Sanskrit studies were concerned, there have been traditional S'aastra paaThas'aalas before and after the British. 

Venkatadhvari's lamentation that people were learning Persian not Sanskrit is similar to the present day lamentation that people are studying English not Sanskrit nor regional languages. These expressions are exaggerations is common sense. Not understanding that it is idiomatic to speak through such ecaggerations is what is making the western observers from distance think that Sanskrit is dead or there are no Sanskrit scholars or there are no scholars of classical Kannada or Telugu literature etc.

Nagaraj Paturi

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Jun 11, 2018, 12:33:39 AM6/11/18
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Nagaraj Paturi
 
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BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
 
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
 
(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
 
 
 

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Nagaraj Paturi
 
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
 
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
 
(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
 
 
 

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