A query on meters in Sanskrit composition

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear friends,

I did read a claim  quite some years ago that the work of Aryabhatta, in "Arya" meter, was called "Aryabhatiya",  due to metric reasons and I believed that without much enquiry. I have also raised a query on this in this group in another thread, but it got drowned in the maze of other arguments. Kindly permit me to raise that question in a separate thread and I am sure the great Sanskrit scholars of this thread in this great forim of scholars, will be in a position to enlighten me on this. The query is as follows :

Had Aryabhatta been the name of the author, could the name of his writing be called Aryabhattia and not Aryabhatia?

Regards,

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

[Vidyasankar Sundaresan]

If some author had been named Devadattabhatta, any work by him could, in theory, be called Devadatta-bhattiya. There was a recent author called vaidyanAtha dIkshita and his compendium, titled smRti-muktAphala is popularly called vaidyanAtha-dIkshitIya. A commentary on bhAgavatapurANa by a citshukha is generally called citsukhIya.

However, because Aryabhata's name was never -bhatta, this question does not arise in his case. The two-t spelling, whether for the author or for the text, is nothing more a popular misconception, enforced by erroneous writing in Roman script. Even the authors on Wikipedia, not necessarily a uniformly reliable or scholarly group, have mentioned that -bhatta is a misspelling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryabhata. There is no need to persist in a doubt when it has been resolved completely satisfactorily, is there? 

I hope this helps. Regards,

Vidyasankar

[Vidyasankar Sundaresan]

I forgot to add that Prof Prasad had already explained this adequately in the previous thread. Using a word with an -Iya ending, in order to name a text of an author with an a-kArAnta name, simply follows the basic taddhita rule of Sanskrit grammar. There is nothing majorly remarkable about it and as far as I know, the AryabhaTIya has very little to do with the AryA poetic meter.

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear Vidyasankarji,

My question is very simple.
Had Aryabhatta been the name of the author, could the name of his writing be called Aryabhattia and not Aryabhatia? What I mean is that will  the word "Aryabhattia" fit in that composition in "arya" meter. I guess, only a expert in the chandas can reply to this.  . The answer will be either yes "yes" or "no". and if "no"  what could be the reason. Aryabhatta's stature will not influence this as this is an impersonal discussion on the compatibility of particular word in the composition in a particular meter..

Regards,
Sunil KB

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[Vidyasankar Sundaresan]

On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 1:40 AM, sunil bhattacharjya <skbhatt...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Vidyasankarji,

My question is very simple.
Had Aryabhatta been the name of the author, could the name of his writing be called Aryabhattia and not Aryabhatia? What I mean is that will  the word "Aryabhattia" fit in that composition in "arya" meter. I guess, only a expert in the chandas can reply to this.  . The answer will be either yes "yes" or "no". and if "no"  what could be the reason. Aryabhatta's stature will not influence this as this is an impersonal discussion on the compatibility of particular word in the composition in a particular meter..

Dear Sunilji,

This is my last attempt at responding, to summarize what has already been said in numerous ways by different scholars on this list.

In theory, a good poet can use any word in any composition and make it fit the meter by positioning it appropriately in his verse.

However, as the word AryabhaTIya (not AryabhaTTIya) itself is only the title by which the text is known and does not occur within its content, your question about compatibility of the word does not even arise. If you are wondering whether the word AryabhaTTIya will fit into the Arya meter better than the word AryabhaTIya, the problem is that no expert in chandas can say anything about a word that does not directly occur in the text under consideration.

The name given to a text in chapter colophons and titles do not count, because those portions of a text do not have to fit any metrical constraints.

I hope you realize that your question conflates many unrelated things. The name of an author and the derivative title of his text have nothing to do with the verbal content of that text. Furthermore, even if you assume that there has to be some connection between Arya as the first name of an author and the poetic meter called Arya, it still leaves your confusion about -bhaTa vs. -bhaTTa untouched.

I don't know if this helps or if it only further deepens your confusion. In either case, I retire from this thread of discussion. 

Wishing you good luck and best regards,

Vidyasankar

    

[Madhav Deshpande]

Here are my Āryā verses using the word Āryabhaṭṭīya:

आर्यभट्टीयशब्द: प्रयुज्यते क्वापि नार्यभट्टेन ।

नाप्यार्यभट्टशब्दो ग्रन्थकृतां नाममालायाम् ।।

आर्यभटो ग्रन्थं स्वं निजनाम्नालञ्चकार सुप्रथितम् ।

आर्यभटीयं जगति प्रवदन्ति मनीषिण: सर्वे ।।

Madhav Deshpande

Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

--

[K S Kannan]

I guess there is yati-bha

​​ṅga in the first pāda of the first verse.

Here is an alternative that I try (I hope this is ok):

"āryabhaṭīyam" suvacam

      na tad anavadyaṁ yad "āryabhaṭtīyam"/

āryabhaṭena proktam

      gaṇita-jñā adhītya nandanti//

KSKannan

[K S Kannan]

The second half could well be

āryabhaṭīya-granthe

gaṇitādhyāyī bhṛśam ramate//

[Madhav Deshpande]

Dear Professor Kannan,

     Where in आर्यभट्टीयशब्द: do you see a yati-bhaṅga?  It has twelve mātrās, and I am not aware of any yati-s in any pādas of the Āryā meter.  The definition of Āryā that I know runs as:

     यस्या: प्रथमे पादे द्वादश मात्रास्तथा तृतीयेऽपि ।

      अष्टादश द्वितीये चतुर्थके पञ्चदश सार्या ।।

    Perhaps, there are alternative definitions of Āryā describing yati-s in various Pādas, that I am not aware of.  

Madhav Deshpande

Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

[K S Kannan]

Dear Prof  Deshpande,

I too have to check an explicit source, if any, for the question of yati in Āryā metre. I just followed my instinct.

Okay, let me turn the question to you: have you come across verses in Āryā, where there is no natural caesura after the 4th mātrā, in at least the odd pāda-s (and to the extent possible even in the even)?

Regards,

Kannan

[Madhav Deshpande]

Dear Prof. Kannan,

     I have not come across a yati in any Pādas of Āryā known to me.  That is why I was a little surprised.  Any way, if I find something about this, will let you know.  With best wishes,

Madhav Deshpande

Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

[K S Kannan]

Dear Prof Deshpande,

Consider the very definitional verse you have provided.

The caesura at every 4 mātrā-s is evident:

yasyāḥ

pāde

prathame

dvādaśa

mātrās

tathā tṛ

tīye

(pi)

etc.

You will see that there is no rupture at the 4th mātrā item.

That way,
āryabhaṭīyam viditam

would be fine as the 1st or the 3rd pāda,
with the scansion (in terms of 4-mātrā units) like this:

āryabha

ṭīyam

viditam

But in āryabhaṭṭiyam as the first word this does not happen:

āryabhaṭ =5

ṭīyam =4.

I am yet to come across an āryā verse where the (instinctive) rule I state has not been followed. Will be thankful if you can spot such a verse.

Regards

KSKannan

[Madhav Deshpande]

I don't quite understand what you seem to understand by the word yati: "The caesura at every 4 mātrā-s is evident".  Somehow, in the recitation of Āryā that we were taught both in Sanskrit and Marathi, there were no such pauses at every 4 mātrās.  There are probably regionally different ways of reciting this and other meters.  When I recite Āryā, I see pauses only at the end of the 2nd and 4th Pādas:

ā paritoṣād viduṣāṃ

na sādhu manye prayogavijānam (pause)

balavad api śikṣitānām

ātmany apratyayaṃ cetaḥ (pause)  

On the other hand, a meter like Śikhariṇī has explicitly defined yati-s splitting all pādas into segments of 6 and 11 syllables [rasaiḥ rudraiḥ channā]:

def: rasaiḥ rudraiś channā [yati] yamanasabhalā gaḥ śikhariṇī.  No such yati-s are defined for Āryā to my knowledge.

Madhav Deshpande

Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

[Nagaraj Paturi]

caesura or Yati is also called as virati, viraama etc. because there is a pause in recitation and such a pause is required for long paadas and not for the short ones. Thus only the second and the fourth lines of aaryaa have a yati or virati or viraama. Where? has several variations. 

In Telugu, one variety of aaryaa called kandamu (probably kanda<skandha) has it at the end of the last syllable of the first three gaNas of the second and the fourth lines. 

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

[K S Kannan]

I have always read the verse with easily available marking off-s at every 4 mātrā-syllabics. Thus:

ā pari- =4 mātrā-s

-toṣād =4

viduṣām =4

Total =12

-------------

na sādhu =4

manye =4

prayoga- =4

-vijñā =4

(nam) =2 ***

Total=18

________________

balavada- =4

-pi śikṣi- =4

-tānām  =4

Total=12

------------

ātmany- =4

-aprat- =4

(-yayam cetaḥ) =7 ***

Total=15

________________

It is only in the even pāda-s, and only towards the very end even there, that we find this non-divisibility into units of 4. (Otherwise, you do not come across a situation where it breaks at 3 or 5 units - as it happened in āryabhaṭṭīyam). There is never a case of indivisibility into units of 4; if there is, to that extent it has lost its geya-guṇa or rhythmical recitation.

You can see this consistently followed in hundreds of verses. At least I have not come across an exception.

The mātrā-vṛtta-s in general, I believe, conform to beatings of time essentially. You may  witness this pattern in the sub-varieties of āryā too - like gīti, upagīti, udgīti, and āryāgīti.

The only caution we may need to take is getting misled in the case of the Sanskrit chāyā of Prākṛt verses. (And Prākṛt verses too, one may note, betray this pattern generally).

My hunch is that the kanda verses  (in Kannada, perhaps Telugu etc. too) conform to this; I have not physically checked them.

And if true, this is a universal feature of the āryā family of metres. 

Of course, I have not read anywhere a formal statement to this effect. And I would be thankful to anyone who proves the situation to the contrary.

[ram]

Thoroughly enjoyed the beautiful compositions of Prof. Deshpande and Prof. Kannan, and the erudite discussion going on.

I am copying below the second verse (of गीतिकापाद) of Aryabhatiya defining  his own way of representing numbers in a ingenious way:

वर्गाक्षराणि वर्गेऽवर्गेऽवर्गाक्षराणि कात् ङ्मौ यः।\\
खद्विनवके स्वरा नव वर्गेऽवर्गे नवान्त्यवर्गे वा॥ २ ॥

Does this also follow the 4 mātrā-syllabic pattern?

Best regards,

-ram.

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[उज्ज्वल राजपूत]

अथ किम्। कन्नन्वर्यवचःसम्मतमिदमपि पदम्।
वर्गा ४ क्षराणि ४ वर्गेऽ ४ वर्गेऽ ४ वर्गा ४ क्षराणि ४ कात् ङ्मौ ४ यः २ ।
खद्विन ४ वकेस्व ४ रानव ४ वर्गेऽ ४ वर्गे ४ नवान्त्य ४ वर्गे ४ वा २ ॥

[K S Kannan]

Of course, the verse follows the 4-mātrā syllabic pattern.

वर्गा =4

क्षराणि =4

 वर्गे =4

---------------

ऽवर्गे =4

ऽवर्गा =4

क्षराणि  =4

कात् ङ्मौ  =4

यः।\\ =2 here only.

_____________________
खद्विन =4

वके स्व =4

रा नव  =4

---------------

वर्गे =4

ऽवर्गे =4 

नवान्त्य =4

वर्गे  =4

वा॥ २ ॥ =2 here only

You can see that only at the end of the even pāda-s do we have the balance of mātrā-s (ie, not equal to 4). 

By the way, even the best of prosody-experts stumble while reciting the varieties of āryā in Varāhamihira. Nevertheless, the rule I have intuitively formed reg. the quadri-syllabry of āryā stands, I think, vindicated.

Thanks, Ramasubramanian, for your kind words. A testimony from an adept in Indian mathematics carries high value.

And just for your kind information: Mahamahopadhyaya NRanganatha Sharma used to appreciate the felicity of my āryā constructions.

Regards

KSKannan

[K S Kannan]

Thanks Dr. Ujjval Rajput.

I saw your kind mail after I posted mine.

[Dr BVK Sastry]

Namaste

 

Some thing is not finding the right ‘Caesura ‘  here.

 

a) The ‘yati- niyama’  is a lesser issue compared to ‘ Vyakarana niyama’ : Though   we get ‘ api mASham masham kuryaat, chandobhangam na kaarayet’ ?!  

 

-          <  The caesura at every 4 mātrā-s is evident:  > …  IF the singing is taught without a need for language-grammar comprehension ! Example :Mangalashtaka singing to bhajan-taal, Singing of Jaya Jagadeesha hare in many Hindu Temples for aarati,  Many ‘ (Gangaa-)  aarti’ songs (Kannada / Or Other Indian Languages)  which are only ‘Geya- pradhana’ for audience locked  to devotion –ritual and visual grandeur of the finale of the event before ‘prasaad’. >

-         At    <    āryabhaṭ =5 -- ṭīyam =4.>    the ‘caesura’ could be:   < ārya-bha = 4 -- ṭī-yam =4.>

b)  ‘ Padaantya-virama’ for pattern recognition-repetition in chandas  is of a higher order compliance related to ‘ pada-antargata – yati virama’.  

                - < When I recite Āryā, I see pauses only at the end of the 2nd and 4th Pādas:..>

 

 

c)  Even Bharata allowed the ‘Nata-Vita –Gayaka’ license  for ‘ apa-shabdas’  in songs, but Panini  is like a hunter chasing them ! So does one base research on  ‘Bharata’s License’ or ‘ Panini’s Lock’?

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[K S Kannan]

Dear Dr BVKSastry,

You may take a look at the verses composed by Prof. Madhav Deshpande himself.

Excepting the opening word, the 4-mātrā rule is in place all over.

आर्यभट्टीयशब्द: प्रयुज्यते क्वापि नार्यभट्टेन ।

नाप्यार्यभट्टशब्दो ग्रन्थकृतां नाममालायाम् ।।

आर्यभटो ग्रन्थं स्वं निजनाम्नालञ्चकार सुप्रथितम् ।

आर्यभटीयं जगति प्रवदन्ति मनीषिण: सर्वे ।।

आर्यभ =5
ट्टीय =3

शब्द: = 4 hereafter

Total 12

-----------
प्रयुज्य

ते क्वा
पि नार्य

भट्टेन । =5 in lieu of 6

Total 17 in lieu of 18
_________________________

नाप्या=4 hereafter
र्यभट्ट
शब्दो

Total 12

-----------

ग्रन्थकृ
तां ना

ममालायाम् ।।=7

Total 15.
_________
_________

आर्यभ
टो ग्र
न्थं स्वं
---------
निजना
म्नाल

ञ्चकार
सुप्रथि

तम् ।=2
________

आर्यभ
टीयं
जगति
--------
प्रवद
न्ति मनी
षिण: सर्वे ।।=8 in lieu of 7

Total in this pāda=16 in lieu of 15.

Hope what I have stated stands verified.

KSKannan

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[Suhas Mahesh]

The 12-18-12-15 condition alone is insufficient for āryā. There would be no perceptible rhythm if this were the only condition. The rhythm comes from the compulsory division of the verse into chunks of 4 mātrās (chaturmātrāgaṇa-s), which Prof. Kannan has intuitively identified. This would be familiar to the scholars here. I am only posting it because there seems to be no description of āryā's constraints available on the internet. The lakṣana from vṛttaratnākara: 

लक्ष्मैतत् सप्तगणा गोपेता भवति नेह विषमे जः। 
षष्ठोऽयं नलघू वा प्रथेमेऽर्धे नियतमार्यायाः ॥
षष्ठे द्वितीयलात्परके न्ले मुखलाच्च सयतिपदनियमः । 
चरमेऽर्धे पञ्चमके तस्मादिह भवति षष्ठो लः ॥

"This is the established definition of the āryā's first half—
There are seven [caturmātrā] gaṇas and one guru.
The ja-gaṇa (LGL) is not present in odd [1,3,5] positions . 
The sixth gaṇa is either ja-gaṇa (LGL), or a na-gaṇa (LLL) combined with a L"

"If the 6th gaṇa is LLLL, there is a yati just before the second L (L || LLL).
If the 7th gaṇa is LLLL, there is a yati just before the first L (|| LLLL).
In the second half [of the āryā]—
If the 5th gaṇa is LLLL, there is a yati just before the first L (|| LLLL)
The 6th gaṇa is a single L."

(The yati-sthāna is denoted by ||)

In short, the constraints on the akṣaras are:
1. Each half must neatly resolve into seven gaṇas plus one additional G at the end.
2. A gaṇa in an odd (1,3,5) position cannot be LGL.
3. The sixth gaṇa must be either LGL or LLLL in pūrvārdha. It must be single L in uttarārdha.
(The entire sixth gaṇa consists of just a single L in uttarārdha)

The "yati-bha​​ṅga" that Prof. Kannan referred to is probably the verse's failure to resolve into chaturmātrāgaṇa-s (since it starts as LGG...).

The yati-sthāna-s are:
1. If sixth gaṇa of pūrvārdha is LLLL then L || LLL.
2. If seventh gaṇa of pūrvārdha is LLLL then || LLLL.
3. If fifth gaṇa of uttarārdha is LLLL, then || LLLL.

It is also possible for an āryā to ignore the virāma after pādas 1 or 3, by not having a word break. In this case, the āryā is said to be vipulā (rarely seen).

There is also nice intuitive visual representation of āryā's constraints in this paper (pg. 246) by Andrew Ollett. I am including the table here:

There is also interesting statistical data quoted about the % distributions of the gaṇas. Ollett shows a yati before uttarārdha 7th gaṇa LLLL. However, I am not sure where he got that from. He also points to Jacobi's work on identifying additional constraints in the āryā, which the tradition has missed. Perhaps it would be of interest to scholars on this list to evaluate what Jacobi says.

Regards,

Suhas Mahesh

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[K S Kannan]

Thank you Suhas for the kind information.

You have provided a detailed tool for testing metrical correctness for āryā,

a tool that is already there, though, in works on prosody.

Suhas was my student for a brief spell of time,
and I have gotten to know from him something I knew but intuitively, as actually having a śāstraic basis.

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[Madhav Deshpande]

Thanks, Suhasji, for this clarification.  I see the caturmātrā structures described by the Vṛttaratnākara, and the violation of that condition in the first pāda of my verse.  My confusion in this was partly related to the use of the word yati after each group of four mātrās.  Yes, there are the four mātrā structures internal to the pādas of Ārya, but we do not have yati or ceasura after each of these four mātrā groups.  Thanks, once again.  By the way, do you have a pdf of Andrew Ollett's article that you refer to.  For some reason, I do not have access to this article through the library of the University of Michigan.  Perhaps they do not subscribe to its online access.  I would appreciate if you can share this pdf.  With best wishes,

Madhav Deshpande

Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

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[K S Kannan]

Here is the article:

[Madhav Deshpande]

Thanks, Professor Kannan for providing this article.  With best wishes,

Madhav Deshpande

Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

[Dr BVK Sastry]

Namaste

 

At this phase of the discussion on this thread, which primarily started with the ‘ Name –related  ‘yati’ in the given verse ,  more complications and complex issues  are invoked by bringing in the ‘ Bhoota- Vaidya model analysis of tender ‘Arya meter’ -  by  Andrew Olett.   The author has many  comments to offer on the ‘Arya – Lakshana and compliance of it in Arya Saptashati’ (Page 272 of article).  

 

The pitch of analysis gets upgraded  to the  focus on core, critical and larger complex issues, as one wades through the article. The emerging issues are like  :  ‘How Samskruth  Texts were taught and transmitted  in the ‘ Prakrut environment of Maharastri- A language using different referential set of phonology and prosody’. ?  What were the norms of the shifts and pedagogy ?   Was there a similar challenge in teaching ‘Samskrutham’  in  other ‘Prakrut-Desi –Apabhramsha language environment’, which other wise carries the same challenges of  ‘Teaching Samskruth in an alien language context like English, German, French’?

 

 The following  observation ( from page 272   of the article )   should be sufficient to make this extended discussion on  ‘Arya- related Yati’ by  Guru-Laghu markers and Gana grouping, as a far  stretched one, on fringe lines.  IF Saptashati itself failed to observe the Arya –primary rules, why debate about it in one specific instance and use it as a ‘  history –name marker’ ?  

 

 

  

 

2.   In the abstract, Olett, the author says: <  The traditional description of the gana-cchandas family of metres of Sanskrit and Prakrit literature, of which the [1]arya metre is the best known, refers to ganas or ‘groups’ of matras. Matras correspond to the ‘moras’ of modern phonology. In this paper the [1]arya is given a detailed analysis on the basis of the traditional description and the empirical data provided by its use in an early Prakrit anthology, the Sattasaı. Several new metrical phenomena are identified , and the incidence of syllabic patterns, rhythmic structures, word boundaries, and stress are considered. The prosodic foot is shown to play an important role in the regulation of the [1]arya’s categorical and gradient patterns. This analysis uses Optimality Theory to account for both kinds of patterns and supports recent research that holds partially ranked constraints responsible for gradient patterns in metrical corpora. Other theories, which derive metrical structure by bottom-up rules, fail to account for the [1]arya’s characteristic patterns.>

 

Again a point to highlight single stanza  analysis for the ‘Arya – lakshana conformity to be used as a History-Name-Marker’.

 

3.  Page 274 –shows how Arya was ‘ vocalized and sung in Prakrut Variants with different patterns – Maharashtri and Sauraseni : A point that was brought in earlier by Professor Deshpande.

 

 

4. The Lakshana from Vrutta ratnakara  provided  in the post is more classical and leans towards ‘Sanskrit –Arya meters’ than ‘ Arya – Prakrit’.  

 

5.   The observations on page 278 of the paper under the sub title:  Theoritical implications have serious issues that need to be addressed; and this strikes at the root of this entire debate and the analysis modeled for ‘Arya’ –analysis. If as Olett observes, Maharashtri observes a different pattern for word boundaries and prosodic metrics  in constructing the ‘  verse –feet (= Paada)’, and these are not considered linguistically / phonologically ‘ irrelevant  ( and   have been taught so in earlier period ), then the ‘gana-analysis’ or the ‘ word-boundary analysis’ followed in this entire thread of discussions would be abinitio out of alignment with the original design and practice of ‘ Aryaa – Gitikaa’.

 

 

This issue ( apart from several other ‘ Bhoota Vaidya analysis of the tender jasmine like ‘Arya meter’  presented in the article) needs closer attention and review! .   

 

 

6.    Last but not the least:     ‘Maatraa’ count is a combine of ‘  CV/ VC  combinations, Stress , Accent, Phonological mora, the singers choice to align and adjust the syllable length to the pleasure of tune and ears,  and has over riding contexts of  language, language grammar, local dialect, the ‘ranga-prayoga’ ( as in Dhruvaa Ganas) which Abhinvagupta makes a detailed presentation in  his commentary on  Natya shastra.  This also needs be looked at more closely to understand the ‘ Measure of Aesthetics – By Ear sensing the time –durations and Mind grasping the meaning of the composiiton’, both of which stand beyond the scripted notation to which the lines and half moon symbols are juggled around.

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

 

 

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Suhas Mahesh
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 10:24 PM
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: A query on meters in Sanskrit composition

 

The 12-18-12-15 condition alone is insufficient for āryā. There would be no perceptible rhythm if this were the only condition. The rhythm comes from the compulsory division of the verse into chunks of 4 mātrās (chaturmātrāgaṇa-s), which Prof. Kannan has intuitively identified. This would be familiar to the scholars here. I am only posting it because there seems to be no description of āryā's constraints available on the internet. The lakṣana from vṛttaratnākara: 

.

[K S Kannan]

For the reasons that have been shown already - namely the requirement of units of 4 mātrā-s - āryabhaṭṭīyam cannot be the first word in an āryā verse. It can only be āryabhaṭīyam. 

That was precisely the nature of violation in Prof. Madhav Deshpande's composition. It could figure elsewhere in an āryā without any violation, as for example shown in my composition.

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 11:57 AM, sunil bhattacharjya <skbhatt...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Prof. Kannan,

There has been interesting and deep  discussions on the AryA meter and several scholars including Madhavji and you had been kind to express the views on the AryA meter. Would you pemit me, at this stage. to draw your attention to one of the verses where Aryabhatta himself had included the word "आर्यभटीयं" (please see Golapada verse - 50, copy attached). My related query is :  if Aryabhatta would have used the word "आर्यभट्टीयम्" in place of "आर्यभटीयं" in that verse, would there have been any discrepancy like yati-bhanga?

Regards,

Sunil KB

[Jaya Prakash]

Hello Gitarthi,

Pujya Sri Bannanje Govindacharyara in his Upanishad chandrika book last section he has explained 108 types of Chandas.Kindly find this link [ https://archive.org/details/UpanishatChandrikafirstPart_926 ].

Hari Om.

On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 6:39:39 AM UTC+5:30, Gitarthi wrote:

Dear friends,

I did read a claim  quite some years ago that the work of Aryabhatta, in "Arya" meter, was called "Aryabhatiya",  due to metric reasons and I believed that without much enquiry. I have also raised a query on this in this group in another thread, but it got drowned in the maze of other arguments. Kindly permit me to raise that question in a separate thread and I am sure the great Sanskrit scholars of this thread in this great forim of scholars, will be in a position to enlighten me on this. The query is as follows :

Had Aryabhatta been the name of the author, could the name of his writing be called Aryabhattia and not Aryabhatia?

Regards,

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear Prof. Kannan,

There has been interesting and deep  discussions on the AryA meter and several scholars including Madhavji and you had been kind to express the views on the AryA meter. Would you pemit me, at this stage. to draw your attention to one of the verses where Aryabhatta himself had included the word "आर्यभटीयं" (please see Golapada verse - 50, copy attached). My related query is :  if Aryabhatta would have used the word "आर्यभट्टीयम्" in place of "आर्यभटीयं" in that verse, would there have been any discrepancy like yati-bhanga?

Regards,

Sunil KB

On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 10:35 AM, K S Kannan <ks.kann...@gmail.com> wrote:

[उज्ज्वल राजपूत]

अत्र बहवो यतिभङ्ग इत्यनेनाभिधानेन यद्विवक्षन्ति स वस्तुतो गतिभङ्ग इत्युदाह्रियते तज्ज्ञैः। हिन्दीसाहित्यशास्त्रे गतिश्छन्दसोङ्गरूपेण गण्यते। bharatdiscovery.org/india/छन्द । संस्कृतच्छन्दःशास्त्रे न तथा श्रुतमस्ति मया।

[K S Kannan]

This is interesting/useful.

Seen in works like Gita Govinda, especially:

lalita-la-

vaṅga-la-

tā-pari-

śīlana

komala

malaya-sa

mīre

etc.

4 mātrā-s each here.

2017-02-13 15:02 GMT+05:30 उज्ज्वल राजपूत <ujjwal....@gmail.com>:

अत्र बहवो यतिभङ्ग इत्यनेनाभिधानेन यद्विवक्षन्ति स वस्तुतो गतिभङ्ग इत्युदाह्रियते तज्ज्ञैः। हिन्दीसाहित्यशास्त्रे गतिश्छन्दसोङ्गरूपेण गण्यते। bharatdiscovery.org/india/छन्द । संस्कृतच्छन्दःशास्त्रे न तथा श्रुतमस्ति मया।

--

[K S Kannan]

Any basis/parallel/archetype in the Vedic

yad ad-

yakac-

ca Vrt-

rahan

etc.?

[उज्ज्वल राजपूत]

अत्र द्विमात्रागणैर्विभाज्यत्वेन गतिः सिद्ध्यति। न तु चतुर्मात्रागणैः।

ललि तल वङ् गल ता परि शी लन को मल मल यस मी रे।

केवलं चतुर्मात्रागणैर्विभाज्यत्वेन न सा गतिरस्मिँश्छन्दसि। यथा।

ललल्ल वङ्गल  तापरि शीलन कोमल मलयस मीरे।
अत्र चतुर्मात्रागणविभाजने सत्यपि पद्यादावेव गतिर्बाध्यते।

[K S Kannan]

evam vaktum pāryate/

tathāpi, ekamātritva-dvimātritva-parivarjam khalu gaṇanā garīyasī/

no ced yatkiñcin-mātram eva sādhitam syāt/

yato hy akiṇcitkara-kalpam hi tat/

mātrā-bhūyastva-bhūyastaratvādi-grahaṇe hi nāmottarottaram viśeṣatā-bhūyastvam /

tarkeṇānena yatra paṇcacāmartva-gṛhīter eva sambhavas,

tatra pramāṇikātva-mātra-vibhāvanayālpīyastva-mātram setsyati nanu? ko hi nāma sacetā alpiyasaiva tṛpyet, sati bhūyo-lābhasyaiva sambhave?

- iti māmakīnā matiḥ

--

[उज्ज्वल राजपूत]

mātrā-bhūyastva-bhūyastaratvādi-grahaṇe hi nāmottarottaram viśeṣatā-bhūyastvam /

नैवं पश्यामि। अष्टाविंशतिमात्रिकेषु छन्दःसु चतुर्मात्रागणविभाज्यानि द्विमात्रागणविभाज्येभ्यो बहुतराणि सन्ति। चतुर्मात्रागणविभाज्यानां मध्ये द्विमात्राविभाज्यानि विशिष्टानि कानिचिदिति प्रकारान्तरेण वाच्यम्।

[K S Kannan]

yadeva nirūpayitum prakrāntam mayā

tad eva bhavatāpīti pratyemi /

2017-02-13 17:18 GMT+05:30 उज्ज्वल राजपूत <ujjwal....@gmail.com>:

mātrā-bhūyastva-bhūyastaratvādi-grahaṇe hi nāmottarottaram viśeṣatā-bhūyastvam /

नैवं पश्यामि। अष्टाविंशतिमात्रिकेषु छन्दःसु चतुर्मात्रागणविभाज्यानि द्विमात्रागणविभाज्येभ्यो बहुतराणि सन्ति। चतुर्मात्रागणविभाज्यानां मध्ये द्विमात्राविभाज्यानि विशिष्टानि कानिचिदिति प्रकारान्तरेण वाच्यम्।

--

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear Prof. Kannan,

Thank you so much. A few decades ago I read such an opinion of a Sanskrit scholar, who wrote that though the name of the writer of "Aryabhatiya" was Aryabhatta, he had to write the name of his work as Aryabhatiya and not Aryabhattia,
 

Regards,

Sunil k. Bhattacharjya

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Om namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya,

Thanks Jaya Prakashji.

--