RE: {भारतीयविद&# 2381;वत्परिषत्} Bhopal Gas Tragedy and Agnihotra
N.R.Joshi
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Ajit Gargeshwari" <ajit.gar...@gmail.com>
To: <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Bhopal Gas Tragedy and Agnihotra
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 16:16:52 +0530
As a side note to this debate This is a serious thought I had from many years. Wanted to know if such a thought had accrued to any one before. To have a national or probably an International committee to study ghosts, devils, rebirth, on claims of Saints and God men or women, on the law of Karma, all ritual practices human beliefs including vedic yajnas publish books and papers an disseminate it all interested public. The committee can experts from all walks of life. This committee of experts may probably answer and settle these aid old question daunting mankind for thousands of years instead of knee jerk reaction which we often see.
Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
From: Ajit Gargeshwari [mailto:ajit.gar...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 6, 2016 3:52 PM
To: 'bvpar...@googlegroups.com'
Subject: RE: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Bhopal Gas Tragedy and Agnihotra
The focus of this thread was with specific focus on Bhopal Gas tragedy and Agni Hotra episode. Till one has verified and confirmed publications on efficacy of homas we all can keep an open mind and not post conclusions. Thanks
From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nagaraj Paturi
Sent: Saturday, August 6, 2016 2:44 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Bhopal Gas Tragedy and Agnihotra
Just as fake allopathic doctors (called by several different names such as RMPs and their failing or harmful treatments can not disprove the efficacy of modern medicine, the fake Vedic scholars/practitioners such as the fake Sadhus/Swamis/Babas and their cheating tricks using methods such as havan can not disprove the efficacy of havans and yajnas made of havans.
On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 1:43 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagara...@gmail.com> wrote:
Aayushmaan Venkata Sriram's post on Bhopal gas tragedy and havan news, though was out of the blue, and though he himself considers the whole news activity around the case as just a hype, it triggered, rather revived the debate around the usefulness of havan and yajna made of that brick. The case of the family saved during the tragedy is just a data, a fact. Role of havan in the family's surviving the tragedy is an open issue for investigation. Both the ideas of 'havan had a role in the survival'' , 'havan had no role in the survival'' are not supported by any research.
Validity of usefulness of havan and yajna is independent of this open to investigation, not yet resolved case.
On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with what you say there is no doubt. One may continue to believe the again hotra episode of Bhopal gas tragedy and I have no objection to any ones belief.
From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nagaraj Paturi
Sent: Saturday, August 6, 2016 12:52 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Bhopal Gas Tragedy and Agnihotra
>Why are sceptics sidelined but the so called Nationalists who seem to say they know all about the ancients ..........
-------- 1. Who is sidelined by whom? All the mainstream platforms of academics are clearly and unquestionably scientism-centric and modernity-centric. Any scientism based statement is swallowed in a gulp without questioning, taken as granted, as given. Any one who makes sense of ideas from the traditional cultures of different social groups of the world are immediately asked to provide a scientism-compatible proof or stand as superstitious.
2. Those who try to make sense of premodern and non-modern ideas are in fact uncritically lumped and branded as 'nationalists' and the world-war-time-born abuses such as fascism and so on are hurled on them to invoke fears and paranoias of those traumatic memories and show the scepticism towards scientism as villainous and scepticism towards such alternative ideas as heroic.
3. Environmentalism is one of the contemporary movements that exposed the lacunae in the claims of science such as absolute objectivity ( ref. "Technology and Human Destiny" by Henryk Skolimowsky) and created a new favourable attitude towards alternative knowledge systems. This development in the history of knowledge is more relevant in the context of the present thread because it is environmentalism that helps in making sense of most of the ideas of Yajna of which havan is the brick.
On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagara...@gmail.com> wrote:
Sharing a chapter of the book " Vision of Aryan Glory" . I request the members not to get digressed into the beaten track issues of validity of the word/concept of 'Aryan' and so on. Reading 'Vedic' for 'Aryan', we may try to understand the views of a legendary visionary scholar of yester years.
The full book may be downloaded from here
The author poojya E Ananthacharyaji was not a mere interpreter or theory-maker he practically experimented the ideas of the Vedic texts and created new medical products.
On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 10:24 PM, sunil bhattacharjya <skbhatt...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear scholars,
Apart from what I wrote earlier I wish to add the following for investigation. If anybody wants to have a fresh look at the efficacy of the havan performed by some of the residents of Bhopal at the time of the lethal gas-leakage, he or she should also find out which fuel was used on that occasion. Many people use the dried cow-dung cakes for the havan and it has been reported that many a times the cow-dung cakes contains chemicals including pesticides and other toxic components. People using such cowdung cakes are generally used to the exposure to such smoke from the burnt cowdung cakes. During the time of the gas-leakage,the havan was surely performed inside the closed house and the house might have already full of such smokes. One has to look at the possibilty of the high concentration of the havan smoke interacting with the very low concentration (at parts per million level) of the leakaed gas and reducing the lethal effect of the latter.
Regards,
skb
On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 8:36 AM, Gopal <gopal.g...@gmail.com> wrote:
namaste.
Thanks Sriramji for your excellent note. Were you able to get the reference of the richaas involved int he asthi=sandhNa-mantra? If so, kindly share them with me. You had mentioned it 6 years back when we met....
In the last two years, when Mr. Cho Ramaswamy, a veteran journalist from chennai, was hospitalized with severe illness , his well-wishers had a few lakh aavarthi of of Rig veda 10.161 performed (Munchami tva havisha). This sukta prayoga has been suggested for ayush vriddi and maaraka rodhana). Mr. Cho Ramaswamy is back home for the last year or so. It is to be noted here that Mr. Ramaswamy has a deep-rooted faith in vedic samskraras. Rig veda 10.162 prayoga is prescribed for Garbha raksha at early stages of pregnancy. three generations back, there were some madhwa families who were known to use this for the purpose in Udumalaipet, Tamilnadu area.
It is stated that Rig mantraas by the rishis are of "high and low" reaches. The argument that Shounaka uses for Rig vidhana had been stated by a few in the past as: if the rig mantraas are potent to lead someone to the status of rishis ("high" reaches), the complement is also true that they can be applied to obtain material gains ("low" reaches). This view point has been used to enunciate various prayoga-prescriptions in his Rig vidhaana. This work supposedly pre-dates the texts of other, "non-scientific" domain of Tantraas.
In science, the starting point is an hypothesis followed by a sincere (shraddha-purvak) effort, following the appropriate methods and materials, to prove or disprove it. Mere speculations based on existing knowledge, however hard-earned it could be, does not justify calling a hypothesis right or wrong. If one wants to approach the topic of efficacy of mantraas in a scientific way, then the first step would be to identify the appropriate methods etc. In any scientific endeavor, it is also necessary to state and understand "prior existing knowledge" before deriving a hypothesis. Again, even for this an unbiased, due diligence is recommended as against an opinionated, merely speculative outlook.
Just because something is said in tradition, it need not be unscientific. May be our knowledge of right means to find out and/or understand the underlying process may be one of the factors contributing to our confusion. For example, it is generally known that the place and method of growth of herbs determine the efficacy of the medical concoctions as described in some texts of Ayurvedha. Now, using soil and rhizosphere Microbiome studies, it has been published that grape vines from the same stock show different properties in grapes and thus in wines fermented from them, if the plants are grown in different soils and environmenst. The resolution of the fundamental characteristics of this scientific fact in an ayurvedha text (generally for herbs) and a contemporary scientific article (specifically for wine grapes, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4338078/) is obviously different. It may be even dangerous to interpolate the wine grapes study to ayurvedic herbs. But to blindly state "everything in ayurvedha texts about the factors determining the efficacy of the herbs is wrong or non-scientific" merely highlights one's limitations in understanding science and mantras.
My 2 cents.
thanks,
..gopal Gopinath
On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 12:42 AM, Venkata Sriram <srira...@gmail.com> wrote:
Namaste Yaduji,
I second with your thoughts that our thinking should be coupled with rational approach. There was a big hype created around Agnihotra w.r.t to Bhopal Gas Leakage.
However, on the flip side (potency of vedic suktas), there are incidents in the recent past. Most of us are aware of a great vedic scholar Sri.Uppuluri Ganapati Sastry who was awarded the title "vedapurusha". He once conducted varuNa japa in tirumala during the times of draught, and there was a huge downpour near yAgashAla and the reservoir became full, thus, the problem of draught was solved. Sri.Raghavendra Tirthalu (Rayaru) of mantralayam, chanted prANa-sukta of Rg veda and brought the dead plant to life. Green leaves started growing. When He chanted Agni sukta with sandal paste in His hand and applied to his saha-adhyAyi, he got burning sensation over his body.
When son of Ganapati Muni (Sri.A.Mahadeva Sastry) got his right leg fractured completely (it was multiple fractures), Sri.Muni performed the anuSTAna of "asthi-sandhNa-mantra" (the mantra for joining of bones) for 40 days, the bones got united. His daughter Smt.Vajreshwari personally told us.
These aspects show that vedic suktas do yield results when chanted by a adhikAri who attained upAsana siddhi.
That is why I enquired whether anybody personally met that Agnihotri who survived the tragedy and came unscathed.
regs,
sriram
On Friday, August 5, 2016 at 12:34:56 AM UTC+5:30, "Dr Yadu" wrote:
Namaste:
I do not see any proof or evidence for arriving at the conclusion that "agnihotra" can be attributed to this.
Explanation is simple and there is no need to create mystery associated with agniohotra.
Methyl isocyanate that was released during the accident is extremely reactive and will try to form a stable compound ASAP.
May be the person practicing the ritual was far away and/or in an area where the toxic reactive compound did not reach that area.. THAT IS ALL. Indians are champions creating Mystery around rituals. When they do not / cannot demonstrate in controlled environment, they ry to blame it on the pronunciation of the person reciting the mantras.... etc.. This practice has only propagated the Great Business of Swami's and andha-shraddhaa.
Few years ago I reviewed a paper that claimed that Plants growth is accelerated when they are placed in the yaj~na-kuNDa and concluded that it was Vedic Mantra. However, there author had hailed to monitor CO2 and moisture (Humidity) for the control specimens or the observed plants.
Hope, some scholars can justify the conclusions in a scientific logical manner.
Thanks
Dr Yadu
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Nagaraj Paturi
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,
(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
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Nagaraj Paturi
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,
(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
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Nagaraj Paturi
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,
(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
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Nagaraj Paturi
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,
(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
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