Absolute constructions in Indo-European languages

[Narayan Prasad]

Dear Scholars,
       Namaste.

       While translating Radischev's Russian novel "A Journey from St. Petersburg to Moscow" (1790), in a reader's review  (by Rebecka) I came across the term "dative absolute" in Russian.
    *QUOTE*
          First and foremost, and most incredible of all, there are absolute datives! Several of them! I really think it's a shame the absolute dative has not permeated colloquial Russian. As far as I can remember, it's a calque from Classical Greek's double genitive ...  It's not an easy read. Because this is not actually Russian. This novel could be translated into Russian.
    *UNQUOTE*

And from the article "Dative Absolute Demystified" I came to know about absolute constructions in Indo-European languages in general:
         (1) dative absolute - in Russian (Old Church Slavonic) and Gothic
         (2) ablative absolute - in Latin
         (3) accusative absolute - in Greek and German
         (4) genitive absolute - in Greek
         (5) locative absolute - in Sanskrit

         (6) instrumental absolute - in Anglo-Saxon 

          And we are quite conversant with the 'nominative absolute' in English, e.g. "The weather being fine, we all started."

In Sanskrit, the locative absolute is भावलक्षणसप्तमी (P.2.3.37: यस्य च भावेन भावलक्षणम्).
But in Kannada grammar work I came across the term "सतिसप्तमी".
BTW, where does the term "सतिसप्तमी" occur in Sanskrit grammar?
Regards

Narayan Prasad

[Irene Galstian]

Could you please give examples you had in mind of dative absolute in Russian?

Thank you,
Irene

[Narayan Prasad]

<<Could you please give examples you had in mind of dative absolute in Russian?>>

Sir, I read about "dative absolute in Russian" only very recently (only a few days ago). I have not collected examples from Radischev's work.

Here, Russian means old Russian (Old Church Slavonic). Here is a perfect example of dative absolute (Евангелие от Матфея 14:6):

"Дьни жє бывъшу рождьства иродова"

Here "Дьни " and "бывъшу" both are in the dative. "рождьства" and "иродова" both are in the genitive.

For detailed explanation, please see here.

It has been translated in modern Russian as:

"Когда наступил день рождения Ирода"

This is a complete clause, not a small clause to be called an absolute construction.

I give here one example on which I raked my head for long time:

"Я пью и ем не для того только, чтоб быть живу" ["Путешествие" (1790:93); (1992:30)]

Here, "живу" is in the dative case. Which modern Russian grammar can explain the dative form here?

During my revision of translation, I will try to collect a few examples.

Thanks and regards

Narayan Prasad

[Irene Galstian]

Thank you, Sir.

My concern with such examples is that scholars, who have learned Russian from textbooks and have by necessity been exposed to a relatively small subset of the language, might be tempted to construct extensive theories based on meagre evidence. Just because there exist sentences like Миша пришел домой попить чаю doesn't in itself mean that there is some special construction with dative. 

For example, classicists have a tendency to impose on Russian (and Armenian - and Sanskrit, perhaps) features they have seen in Greek, often without stopping to absorb how these features are positioned within the fabric of the language itself. It might be possible to learn violin to an extent by going to a cello teacher, but a violin teacher is still better positioned to teach violin. We shouldn't forget that grammar arises out of the language, not the other way around. And language is passed between generations of living people.  

I look forward to other examples you have come across during your translation. By the way, the book we discussed is in process.

Best wishes,

Irene

[Narayan Prasad]

<< For example, classicists have a tendency to impose on Russian (and Armenian - and Sanskrit, perhaps) features they have seen in Greek, often without stopping to absorb how these features are positioned within the fabric of the language itself. >>

Exactly this being the reason, Dr D.N.S. Bhat has written a Kannada grammar entitled "ಕನ್ನಡಕೆ ಬೇಕು ಕನ್ನಡದ್ದೇ ವ್ಯಾಕರಣ" (Kannada requires grammars of Kannada only), in which on page 15, section 1.3, he deals with "ಕನ್ನಡದವಲ್ಲದ ಕನ್ನಡ ವ್ಯಾಕರಣಗಳು" (Kannada grammars unrelated to Kannada).

<<I look forward to other examples you have come across during your translation.>>

OK. I will try to collect them.

<<By the way, the book we discussed is in process.>>

Thank you so much!

Regards

Narayan Prasad