advaita-sannyasa-ekadandi-tridandi

[nagarajpaturi]

This thread is being started to separate the discussion from the thread on Swami Kashikanan​da Giri Ji is brahmalIna !

[Nagaraj Paturi]

The discussion was triggered by the statement by  श्रीमल्ललितालालितः the initiator of the thread on Swami Kashikanan​da Giri Ji is brahmalIna !

"I had a few talks with him regarding specific type of daNDa which are seen nowadays in sannyAsa sampradAya"

 

and Dr. JSR Prasad's response to that:

 

"With regard to tridanda, they are said to be vAgdaNDa, kAyadaNDa and manodaNDa etc. Are there any such ekadaNDa/dvidaNDa kind of concepts in yati sampradAya? "

 

Dr. Ajit Gargeswari's response to that:

 

"This is Known ​ekadaNDa is advaita order among Sanyasis and  ​tridanda is more prominent among the vaishnavas

According to the Vedic injunctions, only a brāhmaṇa may be offered sannyāsa. The Śaṅkara-sampradāya (ekadaṇḍa-sannyāsa-sampradāya) awards the sannyāsa order only to  brāhmaṇas, or born brāhmaṇas, but in the Vaiṣṇava system even one not born in a brāhmaṇa family may be made a brāhmaṇa according to the direction of the Hari-bhakti-vilāsa (tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇām).

daNDa denaotes renunciation hence ​ vAgdaNDa, kAyadaNDa and manodaNDa etc. can be explained

I have not heard about  dvidaNDa

"

 

Response of श्रीमल्ललितालालितः to Dr. JSR Prasad :

 

"Yes, ekadaNDa represent GYAnam as tridaNDa represents vAk-kAya-manaH-saMyama."

 

Nagaraj Paturi's response to Dr. Ajit Gargeswari: 

 

"The Śaṅkara-sampradāya (ekadaṇḍa-sannyāsa-sampradāya) awards the sannyāsa order only to  brāhmaṇas, or born brāhmaṇas

 

------There are many advaita sannyāsis who were non-Brahmins in their pūrva āśrama. 

 

nāga sadhus/sannyāsis of advaita affiliation do not all come from  brāhmaṇas.

 

This is not about ēkadanḍa or tridanḍa issue. This is only about whether there were /are non-brāhmaṇa advaita sannyāsis or not. " 

 

Dr. Ajit Gargeswari's response to this:

 

"Ekadanda Sanyasis in Shankara lineages are Brahmanas in purvashrama.  Naga Sadhus don't carry any danda. So  Ekadandins normally support advaita.  I don't know of any Advaita Dvaita or Visitat advaita Sansyasis as an order of Sanyasa probably Prof Paturi can shed light on this and clearly explain if possible whats ekadanda, Tridanda and if there exists dvidanda order among sansyasis Thanks"
 

The discussion continues.

 

 

On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 9:40 AM, nagarajpaturi <nagara...@gmail.com> wrote:

This thread is being started to separate the discussion from the thread on Swami Kashikanan​da Giri Ji is brahmalIna !

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Prof.Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad-500044

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Ekadanda Sanyasis in Shankara lineages are Brahmanas in purvashrama.

 

-True

 

 Naga Sadhus don't carry any danda

 

-True

 

So  Ekadandins normally support advaita. 

 

- How is 'so' suited here. ' Ekadandins normally support advaita' - true. But this statement has no 'so' connection with the previous two statements.  

 

I don't know of any Advaita Dvaita or Visitat advaita Sansyasis as an order of Sanyasa.

 

------ I failed to understand this statement. This is probably a comment on my statement "This is only about whether there were /are non-brāhmaṇa advaita sannyāsis or not.", particularly my use of the phrase 'non-brāhmaṇa advaita sannyāsis ' and 'advaita sannyāsis' part of it. If that is it, let me say, my word advaita sannyāsi does not refer to any 'order' of sannyasa. It was in a general sense of a sannyasi who is an advaiti.  Similarly one could use words like dvaita sannyasi and vis'ishtaadvaita sannyasi also in a general sense not in the sense of an order of sannyasa.

 

clearly explain if possible whats ekadanda, Tridanda and if there exists dvidanda order among sansyasis

 

---- I already said in my post "This is not about ēkadanḍa or tridanḍa issue".

 

My intention was only to draw attention to the fact that persons like Swami Chinmayananda (saraswati), Vidyaprakashanandagiri Swami, etc. were Advaitis by Vedantic conviction. If they can be called sannyasis, they are examples for a non-brahmana sannyasi with Advaitic conviction. If Naaga Saadhus of Advaita affiliation can be called sannyasis, non-Brahmins among them are also examples of a non-brahmana sannyasi with Advaitic conviction. If the point being made is that the word 'sannyaasa' is reserved for the persons who are Brahmins by birth, that is why only ekadanda sannyasi is a valid word in connections with advaita, that iis a different point. My intention is to draw attention to the cases that I mentioned.    

 

 

--

Prof.Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad-500044

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

I want to clearly understand Ekadanda Tridanda and Dvidanda (if they exisist) sanayass paddhatis as order of monks its significance and evolution any pointers to books or articles would be highly appreciated. I was particularly interested ancient traditions (sampradays followed) used by the monks who carry with them the dandas. As of now I am not looking at monks of Chinmayanada or Ramkrishna Mutts or similar sanyasis as they carry no dandas and follow a follow a different tradition Thanks.

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

[Venkata Sriram]

Pls download "yati dharma sangrah" of visweshwara saraswati from the below link:

 

https://ia601704.us.archive.org/2/items/Anandashram_Samskrita_Granthavali_Anandashram_Sanskrit_Series/ASS_060_Yatidharamasangrah_of_Visweswara_Saraswati_-_GS_Gokhale_1928.pdf

 

regs,

sriram

[Nagaraj Paturi]

1. Best way is to start with the idea of danḍa as a dīkṣāchinha for dvijas . danḍadhāraṇa for brahmacharya is well known. danḍadhāraṇa for sannyāsa is similar. So is part of the dvija culture. Absence of danḍa in non-dvija Vedic ascetic traditions also can be understood on this basis.

 

2. References in some books indicate that both the words ēkadanḍa and tridanḍa seem to have occurrences in documents older than the advaita and viśiṣṭādvaita traditions.

 

3. vAgdaNDa, kAyadaNDa and manodaNDa etc seem to be part of explanatory concepts introduced later to the actual tradition of tridanḍa.  

 

4. There are works such as Olivelle's  "Renouncer and Renunciation in the Dharmaśāstras." 

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

can you please show the references which Sanskrit texts quote Sampardaya or give the view you are expressing about Tridanda order of sanyasis Thanks

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

[Hnbhat B.R.]

There is a detailed explanation on एकदण्डिन् and त्रिदण्डिन् quoting sources for the system of wearing दण्ड-s in वाचस्पत्य, under एकदण्डिन्. The definition of त्रिदण्डिन् is the same as in शब्दकल्पद्रुम with definition from Bhagavata.

and there is no mention of द्विदण्डिन् or चतुर्दण्डिन् in both.

"वाग्दण्डोऽथ मनोदण्डः कायदण्डस्तथैव च । 

यस्यैते निहिता बुद्धौ त्रिदण्डीति स उच्यते । 

त्रिदण्डमेतन्निक्षिप्य सर्वभूतेषु मानवः । 

कामक्रोधौ तु संयम्य ततः सिद्धिं यच्छति” मनुः ।

This quoted in both in respect of त्रिदण्डिन्. I have not checked the source reference. They have not given. Similar description of एकदण्ड and एकदण्डिन् is given.

There are certain typo errors in the descriptions. One have to read them correctly.

[Hnbhat B.R.]

About the Danda-s worn by Brahmacarin-s of त्रैवर्णिक-s, आपस्तम्ब prescxribes different types of दण्ड-s made of different trees, and not the types by एकदण्ड or त्रिदण्ड as in the case of यति-s. which is representation of conceptual of three danda-s, mano-vaak-kaaya, and ekadanda has nothing to do with this concept, but with यज्ञोपवीत, representing the three दण्ड-s together.(as per शब्दकल्पद्रुम).

 पालाशो दण्डो ब्राह्मणस्य नैय्यग्रो-धस्कन्धजोऽवाङ्ग्रो राजन्यस्य बादर औदुम्बरो वा वैश्यस्य वार्क्षो दण्ड इत्यवर्णसंयोगेनैक उपदिशन्ति  ३८

The above is clear. While accepting सन्न्यास this ब्रह्मसूत्र is to be abandoned as per संन्यासोपनिषत् where some more representaocedurestions are given for दण्ड and wearing दण्ड-s procedures for each act.

I will quote in next message if some one needs.

 

[Nagaraj Paturi]

From a secondary source,

Came to know that Bhattotpala in his commentary of Varahamihira’s  Brihajjataka mentions a fifth century Jain scholar kālakāchārya who connects budha with ekadandins.

Also came to know that the Buddhist text Lalitavistara (early centuries of Christian Era ) mentions Tridanda holding persons.

Yet to locate exact lines from both the sources.

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Prof.Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad-500044

[श्रीमल्ललितालालितः]

श्रीमल्ललितालालितः

www.lalitaalaalitah.com

On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 7:53 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagara...@gmail.com> wrote:

1. Best way is to start with the idea of danḍa as a dīkṣāchinha for dvijas . danḍadhāraṇa for brahmacharya is well known. danḍadhāraṇa for sannyāsa is similar. So is part of the dvija culture. Absence of danḍa in non-dvija Vedic ascetic traditions also can be understood on this basis.

​There is no relation of daNDa-s of traivarNika-brahmachArI-s and that of sannyAsI-s of three types.

kuTIchaka, bahUdaka - these two types of sannyAsI-s hold tridaNDa.

haMsa holds ekadaNDa.

paramahaMsa-s are of two types : jiGYAsu and GYAnavAn.

jiGYAsu or vividiShu paramahaMsa-s  are two types : those who embrace sannyAsa-Ashram and those who don't but shun all kAmya-niShidda-karma. The first one holds ekadaNDa.

vidvAn or GYAnavAn paramahaMsa-s don't hold any signs.

It could be found in jIvanmuktivivekaH of shrI-vidyAraNya.

There is no need to attach these sannyAsI-s to any philosophy, advaita or dvaita. The thing which they should follow is upaniShad-s, no matter which explanation they hold.

Lack of daNDa doesn't prove that the sannyAsI is ashAstrIya/avaidika.

avaidika has no sannyAsa. So, saying that avaidika is sannyAsI and doesn't have daNDa - is contradictory.

Here is paramahaMsopaniShad:

अथ योगिनां परमहंसानां कोऽयं मार्ग्गस्तेषां का स्थितिरिति ..... asks nArada to bhagavAn

Answers bhagavAn : स्वपुत्रमित्रकलत्रबन्ध्वादीञ्छिखां यज्ञोपवीतं यागं सत्रं स्वाध्यायञ्च सर्व्वकर्म्माणि सन्न्यस्यायं ब्रह्माण्डञ्च हित्वा कौपीनं दण्डमाच्छादनञ्च स्वशरीरोपभोगार्थाय लोकस्यैवोपकारार्थाय च परिग्रहेत्

....this is vividiShA-paramahaMsa-sannyA.

He continues: तच्च न मुख्योऽस्ति । कोऽयं मुख्य इति च । यदयं मुख्यो न दण्डं न कमण्डलुं न शिखां न यज्ञोपवीतं न चाच्छादनं चरति परमहंसः........ this is vidvat-paramahaMsa-sannyAsa.

Same upaniShad:
ज्ञानदण्डो धृतो येन एकदण्डी स उच्यते ।

काष्ठदण्डो धृतो येन सर्व्वाशी ज्ञानवर्ज्जितः ॥

तितिक्षाज्ञानवैराग्यशमादिगुणवर्ज्जितः ।

भिक्षामात्रेण यो जीवेत् स पापी यतिवृत्तिहा ॥

This means that ekadaNDa is representative of GYAna.

nAradaparivrAjakopaniShad:

कुटीचकः शिखायज्ञोपवीती दण्डकमण्डलुधरः कौपीनकन्थाधरः पितृमातृगुर्व्वाराधनपरः पिठरखनित्रशिक्यादिमन्त्रसाधनपर एकत्रान्नादनपरः श्वेतोर्द्ध्वपुण्ड्रधारी त्रिदण्डः ।

बहूदकः शिखाकन्थाधरस्त्रिपुण्ड्रधारी कुटीचकवत्सर्व्वसमो मधुकरवृत्त्याष्टाकबलाशी ।

हंसो जटाधारी त्रिपुण्ड्रोर्द्ध्वपुण्ड्रधार्यसंकॢप्तमाधूकरान्नाशी कौपीनखण्डतुण्डधारी ।

परमहंसः शिखायज्ञोपवीतरहितः पञ्चगृहेष्वेकरात्रान्नादनपरः करपात्र्येककौपीनधारी शाटीमेकामेकं वैणवं दण्डमेकशाटीधरो वा भस्मोद्धूलनपरः सर्व्वत्यागी ।

.................

परमहंसादित्रयाणां न कटिसूत्रं न कौपीनं न वस्त्रं न कमण्डलुर्न दण्डः सर्व्ववर्ण्णभैक्षाटनपरत्वं जातरूपधरत्वं विधिः ।

सन्न्यासकालेऽप्यलंबुद्धिपर्य्यन्तमधीत्य तदनन्तरं कटिसूत्रं कौपीनं दण्डं वस्त्रं कमण्डलुं सर्व्वमप्सु विसृज्याथ जातरूपधरः .....

This is quoted to show that their are vaidika-sannyAsa where there is no daNDa, etc.

​

 

 

2. References in some books indicate that both the words ēkadanḍa and tridanḍa seem to have occurrences in documents older than the advaita and viśiṣṭādvaita traditions.

upniShad-s have differentiated these sannyAsa and smR^iti-s have made the division clear.​

 

 

3. vAgdaNDa, kAyadaNDa and manodaNDa etc seem to be part of explanatory concepts introduced later to the actual tradition of tridanḍa.  

​Wrong. Don't put your invented ideas here.

The three types of daNDa could be found as representing vAgdaN​Da, etc. in shruti, smR^iti itself.

 

On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 11:57 AM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

I was particularly interested ancient traditions (sampradays followed) used by the monks who carry with them the dandas. As of now I am not looking at monks of Chinmayanada or Ramkrishna Mutts or similar sanyasis as they carry no dandas and follow a follow a different tradition Thanks.

​For knowledge of people here, chinmaya and RK Mission follow paramahaMsa-sannyAsa system which they have inherited from kailAsa-Ashrama-pramaMparA.

vivekAnanda and abhedAnanda have got copies of sannyAsa-paddati-s from there and they followed that. Even now people who leave RK Mission or could not take  sannyAsa there, go to kailAsa Ashrama for sannyAsa. And I could ensure you that these paddhati-s are vaidilka, although the Mission now doesn't follow varNa-vyavasthA. Even then, those traivarNika-s who took sannyAsa from their institution are valid sannyAsI.

chinmayAnada was similarly initiated by shivAnanda sarasvatI. shivAnanda was initiated by svAmI viShNudevAnanda giri jI of kailAsa Ashrama.

The tradition which doesn't carry daNDa but follows veda-s for sannyAsa, is in no way ashAstrIya. Instead, the lack of daNDa,etc. is enough to put them in paramahaMsa category.

These all things should be considered putting aside men who follow these sannyAsa. Because, as soon as you bring people, you will easily catch their fault and then it is always easy to say that they don't fall in such and such category of sannyAsa because they don't have viveka or vairAgya or GYAna, etc. Keep these talks strictly stuck to vidhi-s which they follow and signs of sannyAsa which they posses, because if we bring gR^ihastha-s to compare with shAstrIya one, one could easily say that their is no gR^ihastha at all.

To add to all these, the paramahaMsa-s of dashanAma-vaidika-saMpradAya do get ekadaNDa during sannyAsa ceremony, but they shun it after getting according to prescriptions. This is again to support their vaidikatva/shAstrIyatva.

​

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Thanks Sri Sriram ,for this useful link in this context.

 

Sharing a relevant snapshot.

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Thanks to Dr. H.N. Bhat, Sri Lalitalalitaji for providing the correct meaning of Tridandi as has been mentioned in the upanishads and the clear difference between त्रैवर्णिक and Danda a Sanyasi holds which was not clear earlier in the thread. The extract Prof  Paturi quotes many well known verses.yati dharma sangrah  I thank all all who have responded to this thread.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Wrong. Don't put your invented ideas here.

 

------ I would not have been so rude in this context.

 

"vAgdaNDa, kAyadaNDa and manodaNDa etc seem to be part of explanatory concepts introduced later to the actual tradition of tridanḍa" ( emphasis added.)

 

is an open-ended presentation of a hypothesis proposal in the process of explaining the connection between two pieces of information, the object called tridanda, the ritual practice of holding it and the texts giving meaning to the object  and the ritual. To be able to prove that the object and the ritual and the meaning in the texts were born together and the object and the ritual were created with the meaning, supporting evidences can be provided. If I get hold of such evidences, I shall conclude that the hypothesis has been proved wrong. That is the due academic process. 

 

Thanks.

 

Humbly,

 

Nagaraj  

 

 

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Prof.Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad-500044

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 11:05 PM, श्रीमल्ललितालालितः <lalitaa...@gmail.com> wrote:

​For knowledge of people here, chinmaya and RK Mission follow paramahaMsa-sannyAsa system which they have inherited from kailAsa-Ashrama-pramaMparA.

vivekAnanda and abhedAnanda have got copies of sannyAsa-paddati-s from there and they followed that. Even now people who leave RK Mission or could not take  sannyAsa there, go to kailAsa Ashrama for sannyAsa. And I could ensure you that these paddhati-s are vaidilka, although the Mission now doesn't follow varNa-vyavasthA. Even then, those traivarNika-s who took sannyAsa from their institution are valid sannyAsI.

​I have not read this information in any published works of Ramakrishna Mutt or Mission. I have read that the president of Ramakrishna order of Monks are normally those who take their initiation in The Holy mother or wife of Ramakrishna Paramahasa lineage. Its is not mentioned in any of their published works that Sri Ramkrishna Parma hamsa took Sanyasa or had any interactions with Kailash ashram. Vivekananda at least has not said he got copies of any Sansyasa Ppaddatis and he is following any one paddati. He never even says it Vaidika Paddati. That is why I said their order of monks follow a different​

 

​ Sampradaya.​ I am not making judgements. The validity or invalidity of a Sanyasi was never mentioned by me Thanks

[श्रीमल्ललितालालितः]

श्रीमल्ललितालालितः
www.lalitaalaalitah.com

On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 10:36 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagara...@gmail.com> wrote:

Wrong. Don't put your invented ideas here.

 

------ I would not have been so rude in this context.

 

"vAgdaNDa, kAyadaNDa and manodaNDa etc seem to be part of explanatory concepts introduced later to the actual tradition of tridanḍa" ( emphasis added.)

 

is an open-ended presentation of a hypothesis proposal in the process of explaining the connection between two pieces of information, the object called tridanda, the ritual practice of holding it and the texts giving meaning to the object  and the ritual. To be able to prove that the object and the ritual and the meaning in the texts were born together and the object and the ritual were created with the meaning, supporting evidences can be provided. If I get hold of such evidences, I shall conclude that the hypothesis has been proved wrong. That is the due academic process. 

If academic process is of concern, then let me put it against you.

You just made a statement without providing any proof of that. So, it is just speculation seen from others' point of view. If you had provided any such evidence, we may not have blamed in such a way.

The same thing done by you makes your sentence eligible for our consideration. But, if I blame it in the same way, why should not you consider it in the same way.

Just because you see somewhere that customs came first and explanations later, doesn't make this a universal rule. Isnt' it?

BTW, I clearly mentioned that shruti-s and smR^iti-s have said that daNDa-s should be kept by sannyAsI and it represents such and such things. So, in this way my statement was not just a work of imagination, but one based on shAstra.

Another thing to mention, there is a basic difference between sAMpradAyika-vidvAn and those who are not - regarding validity, origin, etc. of veda-s. Those are also playing role to shape our statements. Considering that this difference can't be eradicated, let us put our views mentioning this difference. Once you mention this, I'll never bother to even reply.

BTW,

Here is manu:

वाग्दण्डोऽथ मनोदण्डः कर्म्मदण्डस्तथैव च ।

यस्यैते नियता बुद्धौ स त्रिदण्डीति चोच्यते ॥​

 

​त्रिदण्डमेतत्तु निक्षिप्य सर्व्चभूतेषु मानवः ।

​कामक्रोधौ तु संयम्य ततः सिद्धिं निगच्छति ॥

More from daxa:

वाग्दण्डे मौनमातिष्ठेत्कर्म्मदण्डे त्वनीहताम् ।(कर्म्मदण्डोऽल्पभोजनम् is other reading.)

मानसस्य तु दण्डस्य प्राणायामो विधीयते ॥

Such tridaNDa is essential for even paramahaMsa, who bear external ekadaNDa, is said by prajApati:

यतिः परमहंसस्तु तुर्य्याख्यश्श्रुतिचोदितः ।

यमैश्च नियमैर्य्युक्तो विष्णुरूपी त्रिदण्डभृत् ॥

shrI-vidyAraNya says that these are called daNDa because they are damana-hetuH.

Now, he explains that : these internal daNDa-s are real daNDa-s and should be hold by all yati-s. The external one is their representative.
So, it comes that internal ones are original daNDa-s, while your imagination represented as if external is original and to find some explanation some people devised these explanation. That's the difference.

Again, ज्ञात्वैवं मनोदण्डं धृत्वा is found in nAradaparivrAjakopaniShad.

The same upaniShad says that :

वागदण्डः कर्म्मदण्डश्च मनोदण्डश्च ते त्रयः ।

यस्यैते नियता दण्डाः स त्रिदण्डी महायतिः ॥

This all should be enough to dispel your imagination.

The person who is presenting some imagination and expects it to become valid, must have studied and researched enough to provide at least a few vAkya-s from shAstra. If he doesn't, then there is nothing wrong in refuting it.

I must clear that I'm not a paNDita of English language. So, I translate following sanskrit terms, i.e.

imagination = कल्पना = अर्थापत्तिः - as we study in shAstra-s. The shrutArthApatti is valid only if you could show vAkya which is valid and can't be explained otherwise. Without presenting it, and claiming that 'it is hypothesis' will essentially cause the question 'based on what' in others' mind. This is not correct according to common sense, and I hope this sense is what is called 'academic process' when brought to respected field.

[श्रीमल्ललितालालितः]

Asking any monk of RK Mission, who has a little knowledge of shAstra-s, etc., will make this clear. I've first hand experience of this relation.
vivekAnanda was for a few days in kailAsa Ashrama. abhedAnanda stayed a bit long there and he gained more knowledge of shAstra-s there.

The inititation you talked, is just mantra-dIxA and not sannyAsa-dIxA. And no there is no rule that person of sAradA-lineage becomes president. svAmI AtmasthAnanda, is president and is shiShya of svAmI viGYAnAnanda.

Actually, vivekAnanda and all just got gairika-vastra from rAmakR^iShNa first, without any shAstrIya-vidhi. He then got sannyAsa-vidhi from outside and then arranged homa, etc. for all according to that.

To get these details contact some old monk of order or one who has interest in shAstra-s and history, both.

श्रीमल्ललितालालितः

www.lalitaalaalitah.com

--

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

If the information is from the monks themselves that the Sanyasa order they follow is as per Kailash ashram and they get special Sahstric training there at least a few monks I agree. I have nothing to dispute. Thanks for the clarification

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

​Swami Vivekanada, Swami Kalyananda and Swami Nishayananda established a Sevashram in Kankhaland. Swami Vivekanda stayed in Kailasa Asram as a resident student for three years He never says or is  there any documentation to say he got his Sanyasa Diksha at KailAsa Ashrama. Nor is it true the current monks go to Kailsa Asram to receive any initiation. Staying in place for studies doesn't mean receiving monastic initiation. I wanted calrify what I had said earlier.

I clearly know the difference between mantra Diksha and Sansyasa diksha

Sorry to have quoted wiki but this is documented by accurate references
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhanraj_Giri

This is from their Official website

http://rksaradadprayag.org/new-page.htm

​This my last post on this thread.
​

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

[श्रीमल्ललितालालितः]

श्रीमल्ललितालालितः
www.lalitaalaalitah.com

On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 5:30 PM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

​Swami Vivekanada, Swami Kalyananda and Swami Nishayananda established a Sevashram in Kankhaland. Swami Vivekanda stayed in Kailasa Asram as a resident student for three years He never says or is  there any documentation to say he got his Sanyasa Diksha at KailAsa Ashrama. Nor is it true the current monks go to Kailsa Asram to receive any initiation. Staying in place for studies doesn't mean receiving monastic initiation. I wanted calrify what I had said earlier.

​I said this : He then got sannyAsa-vidhi from outside and then arranged homa, etc. for all according to that.

I have not said that he got sannyAsa at kailAsa Ashrama. I said that he got vidhi(paddhati) there.

There is big difference.

Moreover, when I said that people take sannyAsa, this is actual sentence :

Even now people who leave RK Mission or could not take  sannyAsa there, go to kailAsa Ashrama for sannyAsa.​

​You could see that I have said that people who leave RK Mission or Could Not Take SannyAsa there go to kailAsa Ashrama, not that everyone goes there.

There is a big difference.​

 

 

I clearly know the difference between mantra Diksha and Sansyasa diksha

Sorry to have quoted wiki but this is documented by accurate references
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhanraj_Giri

This is from their Official website

http://rksaradadprayag.org/new-page.htm

​This my last post on this thread.
​

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 12:17 PM, श्रीमल्ललितालालितः <lalitaa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Asking any monk of RK Mission, who has a little knowledge of shAstra-s, etc., will make this clear. I've first hand experience of this relation.
vivekAnanda was for a few days in kailAsa Ashrama. abhedAnanda stayed a bit long there and he gained more knowledge of shAstra-s there.

The inititation you talked, is just mantra-dIxA and not sannyAsa-dIxA. And no there is no rule that person of sAradA-lineage becomes president. svAmI AtmasthAnanda, is president and is shiShya of svAmI viGYAnAnanda.

Actually, vivekAnanda and all just got gairika-vastra from rAmakR^iShNa first, without any shAstrIya-vidhi. He then got sannyAsa-vidhi from outside and then arranged homa, etc. for all according to that.

To get these details contact some old monk of order or one who has interest in shAstra-s and history, both.

श्रीमल्ललितालालितः
www.lalitaalaalitah.com

On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 11:05 PM, श्रीमल्ललितालालितः <lalitaa...@gmail.com> wrote:

​For knowledge of people here, chinmaya and RK Mission follow paramahaMsa-sannyAsa system which they have inherited from kailAsa-Ashrama-pramaMparA.

vivekAnanda and abhedAnanda have got copies of sannyAsa-paddati-s from there and they followed that. Even now people who leave RK Mission or could not take  sannyAsa there, go to kailAsa Ashrama for sannyAsa. And I could ensure you that these paddhati-s are vaidilka, although the Mission now doesn't follow varNa-vyavasthA. Even then, those traivarNika-s who took sannyAsa from their institution are valid sannyAsI.

​I have not read this information in any published works of Ramakrishna Mutt or Mission. I have read that the president of Ramakrishna order of Monks are normally those who take their initiation in The Holy mother or wife of Ramakrishna Paramahasa lineage. Its is not mentioned in any of their published works that Sri Ramkrishna Parma hamsa took Sanyasa or had any interactions with Kailash ashram. Vivekananda at least has not said he got copies of any Sansyasa Ppaddatis and he is following any one paddati. He never even says it Vaidika Paddati. That is why I said their order of monks follow a different​

 

​ Sampradaya.​ I am not making judgements. The validity or invalidity of a Sanyasi was never mentioned by me Thanks

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Namaste,

May I pose a few queries ?

1)

How does Sanyasha and Homa go together ?
2)

Does any Sanyashi continue to wear the sacred thread? and
3)

Why do the physical sizes of the three dandas differ ?

Regards

[Shrivathsa B]

hariH OM,

"How does Sanyasha and Homa go together ?"

   The homa that the svaami (lalitAlAlitaH) is refering to is the final homa a gR^ihasta does to give up all karma: the virajA homa.

svasti,

        JAYA BHAVAANII BHAARATII,

                                                       shrivathsa.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

1. The irony in the story of my participation in this thread is that I created this separate thread out of my respect for श्रीमल्ललितालालितः , honouring his suggestion in a different thread not to extend the danDa discussion in the thread dedicated for a mahaniya's Brahmlina.

I ended up facing rant from the same person.

 

2. Another irony is that I entered into the discussion just to point out that Advaiti Swamijis who are not Brahmins in their Poorva Aashrama do belong to S'ankara sampradaya only. While making this point, I made it very clear that that was not a participation in Ekadanda and Tridanda issue. In spite of that I later entered the Danda topic only after Dr. Ajitji said that his jijnaasa was about Ekadanda and Tridanda issue only thinking that in the process, I might also learn a few things. Now I begin to realize that that  reluctant decision to enter into this danDa-discussion was a wrong one.

 

3. All the posts I made were related to modern chronology of references. None of the statements in reaction against them  are on those lines. Thus the discussion appears to be going in two different tracks. 

 

This is my last post on this thread.

 

Thanks.

 

   

Prof.Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad-500044

[श्रीमल्ललितालालितः]

श्रीमल्ललितालालितः
www.lalitaalaalitah.com

On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 10:06 PM, sunil bhattacharjya <skbhatt...@gmail.com> wrote:

Namaste,

May I pose a few queries ?

1)

How does Sanyasha and Homa go together ?

​What do you mean by their going together ?
​

 

2)

Does any Sanyashi continue to wear the sacred thread? and

​Yes. kuTIchaka and bahUdaka.
​

 

3)

Why do the physical sizes of the three dandas differ ?

​Give proof that they differ, then we will see if their is any proof of that being based on vidhi-s.
​

 

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Namaste,

The first query was answered by another member, already. I now understand that you were referring to the Viaja Homa. It will be kind of you, if you have anything to add to that.

Thank you for answering the second query.

As regards the third query, I  have seen some sanyashis with the three dandas, one of which is about one-inch thick, the second one is thinner (about half-inch thick) and the third one is still thinner (about quarter-inch thick). The lengths of all the three dandas are roughly the same. It will be kind of you to enlighten us if there are any specifications for the individual dandas.

Regards.

[श्रीमल्ललितालालितः]

I just got this :
"

Tridandam vainavam soumyam satvacham samaparvakam |
Veshtitham krishnagovaaLarajjvaa tu chaturanguhm ||

‘An ascetic should take three staves of bamboo and tie them together with a rope made of the hair of the cow’s tail, four angulas in length.’

‘A tridandi according to Manu is one who has restraint over his speech, mind and body and does not imply mere physical appearance of carrying a tridanda. ’

Vaag dando atha manodandah kaayadandas tathaiva cha |
Yasyaithe nihitaa buddhau tridanditi cha uchyate ||

"

This was found on : http://anudinam.org/2011/11/22/tridandi-sannyasi-none-other-than-lord-narayana/

More could be found in yatili~Ngasamarthanam of vatsya varadAchArya. I request shrI-vaiShNava scholars to present the details of tridaNDa from shruti-s, smR^iti-s or any nibandha of AchArya-s.

श्रीमल्ललितालालितः
www.lalitaalaalitah.com

[श्रीमल्ललितालालितः]

अत्र दण्डे बौधायनः -

त्रीन्दण्डानङ्गुलीस्थूलान्वैणवान्मूर्द्धसम्मितान् ।

एकादशनवद्वित्रिचतुस्सप्तान्यपर्व्वकान् ॥

वेष्टितान्कृष्णगोवालरज्ज्वा तु चतुरङ्गुलान् ।

एको वा तादृशो दण्डो गोवालसदृशो भवेत् ।

It mentions that all three daNDa-s should be thick as finger.

श्रीमल्ललितालालितः
www.lalitaalaalitah.com

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Namaste,

Thank you for the explanation.

Regards,