Re: bvhacker to MikuMikuDance (vmd) converter

[davedub]

Hi Mr Question,

Welcome to the bvhacker group.

This does look interesting. I really like the idea of exporting to
another file format, but I have to confess, I've not heard of VMD
files - could you perhaps provide a sample file and a link or two to a
quick overview of the technologies involved?

I'll look forward to hearing back from you,

- Davedub






On Aug 7, 10:13 am, MrQuestion <leona...@halcyon.com> wrote:
> Hi Dave - I'm new here
>
> My interest is in using the ipi Motion Capture/Studio stack to create bvh
> files to transform into vmd files suitable
> for use in MikuMikuDance stuff
>
> I've found the ipi stack to be excellent for motion capture and your app to
> be great for tuning up the skeletal structure
> but none of the conversion (bvh->vmd) stuff works (b-momi or Live
> Animation) at least for me :)
>
> And your app seems very very solid - hats off to you.
>
> Sooo
>
> I'm gonna embark on the process of writing a converter - I've been able to
> work with the vmd files well enough to build a
> dance resequencer that works, so I'm not without some technical skills here
>
> Not sure if this is the right place to post - but if I can get this thing
> right (most of the issues revolve around the bone map and
> correctly parsing the bvh motion data - which seems pretty accessible) I'd
> be happy to contribute my logic to bvhacker -
>
> It would seem like a decent adjunct to bvhacker - perhaps just an export
> option - which would directly open up bvhacker
> as a central component in MMD stuff (and the market there is HUGE)
>
> So I'd like to open up a discussion here on bvh to vmd conversion - to
> introduce myself to the crowd - with the idea that
> perhaps it might be useful to you to include this conversion at some point
> as a feature in bvhacker
>
> I'd also like to invite anyone who has worked with vmd files in a technical
> sense to talk on this -

[MrQuestion]

Hi dave

In the vocaloid/MMD space the major application for controlling dance movement is
MikuMikuDance(MMD).  Almost all the applications and utilities are in Japanese and
getting a good handle on their operation is difficult if you don't speak Japanese.

 

This is a HUGE base worldwide Google Hatsune Miku for a sense of it

 

The motion data for the models is held in vmd files

If you go to one of my pages www.sandfisher.com/lc/vocaloid.php you can get a primer of sorts on
the MMD videos.  Links to some of the best ones. If you go to YouTube you can watch the vids I
produced using MMD under the channel MrQuestion100

Or on Youtube search for MMD Miku or MMD Gumi and you will see thousands of videos produced
using the MikuMiku Dance software - I find it really compelling. You will find every kind of vid there from the truly tacky to the truly inspiring.

For an amazing example of multi model dance motion see
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsTyOGf4w70&feature=related

A recent vid capturing the energy of the genre with good vivid effects
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ePehzAbVkY

and probably my best vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2VO1v9kbPk&feature=plcp

The missing link for many persons is quality motion capture. The Kinect is capable but my experience with the openNI stack is that you can't quite get a good bonemap operating. I can't try the Kinect sdk cuz I run a music computer that still is operating on XP

using the openNI drivers, the feet and legs are not well captured. You can imagine that it messes with creating good dance motion. my vids were produced by hacking motion data from other vmd files - not real motion capture
The hacks were done by editing the data within MMD. I don't really know the structure of the vmd files - but there is a utility for translating vmd to an accessible CSV file and back.

 

Working with the CSV files I've been able to resequence and restructure dances -
the csv files contain bone names, frame id's and xyz locations and rotations and reload the
csv to vmd converted files back into MMD - the vmd<->csv converter is called VMDConverter

 

But the final chapter is to get quality motion data from a kinect- the IPI products do that well and get you to a manipulable bvh file (which has by far the most complete bone structure) - and on the other side - I can get a csv file into the MMD software but the rub is to get the bvh into an appropriately structured csv.

Better yet would be to have bvhacker directly produce a vmd - but I don't have the skillset
to decompile or deconstruct the native vmd file.  I can still send you one if you want.  I understand the structure of the CSV file that can create the vmd (via VMDConverter) but not the VMD file itself.

If I were you, I would spend an hour poking around the Youtube MMD space (I'm sure you will at the very least be entertained) and see what it's all about - virtually every video is produced using MMD and the motion data is in a VMD file.

 

I would think the first thing to do would be poke around in the MMD space and see what it's all about
I could see the project stack for doing MMD vids

 

1) IPI products for motion capture and to create motionbuilder bvh file
2) bvhacker to create a csv file from the bvh file (or a vmd file if you can crack it)
3) VMDConverter to create a vmdfile from the csv file (if bvhacker doesn't go that far)
4) VMD reduction tool (thins the kinect data making key frame edits easier)
5) MMD to do the final render.

If you still want a csv file or a vmd file let me know - I have tons.

 

Any questions - ask away

 

Thanks much!

 

MrQuestion    

[davedub]

Hi Mr Question,

Ok, I will have a look at this. Could you send me a VMD file and a CSV
file so I can see what they are all about.

Cheers,

- Davedub

On Aug 12, 2:58 am, MrQuestion <leona...@halcyon.com> wrote:
> Hi dave
> In the vocaloid/MMD space the major application for controlling dance
> movement is
> MikuMikuDance(MMD).  Almost all the applications and utilities are in
> Japanese and
> getting a good handle on their operation is difficult if you don't speak
> Japanese.
>
> This is a HUGE base worldwide Google Hatsune Miku for a sense of it
>
> The motion data for the models is held in vmd files
>

> If you go to one of my pageswww.sandfisher.com/lc/vocaloid.phpyou can get

> a primer of sorts on
> the MMD videos.  Links to some of the best ones. If you go to YouTube you
> can watch the vids I
> produced using MMD under the channel MrQuestion100
>
> Or on Youtube search for MMD Miku or MMD Gumi and you will see thousands of
> videos produced
> using the MikuMiku Dance software - I find it really compelling. You will
> find every kind of vid there from the truly tacky to the truly inspiring.
>

> For an amazing example of multi model dance motion seehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsTyOGf4w70&feature=related
>
> A recent vid capturing the energy of the genre with good vivid effectshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ePehzAbVkY
>
> and probably my best vidhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2VO1v9kbPk&feature=plcp

[MrQuestion]

Thanks Dave - I'll put together a package and post it in a few days

 

I'll try to keep it succinct :)

 

[MrQuestion]

Hi Dave - I put up a page that has DL links for a couple zip files and

documentation.

 

It's long but I always try to be as complete as possible as far as providing docs and insight

 

http://www.sandfisher.com/lc/bvhvmd.php

 

Thanks much

[Dave Wooldridge]

Hi Mr Question,

Thanks so much for putting that resource together for me. I've added all the details to my roadmap for bvhacker. However, development is likely to be slow right now, as I have 'day job' projects on too.

I'll post in the group as progress is made...

Cheers!

 - Davedub

[Leonard Czajka]

Thats cool

 

I was worried that the size of the package scared you off :)

 

No problems - I just put it together so you could unpack it and go

 

The biggest issue will revolve around ensuring the bones map - and I'm unsure how to deal with the center bone.

 

Thanks much and ask away if you have questions

 

Len

[Dave Wooldridge]

Hi Leonard,

Lol - no, not put off by the size of the package - quite the opposite, it's nice to have all the info in one place, will save me lots of time.

As I say, I am busy with 'day job' projects at the moment, but I will get onto the next release of bvhacker as soon as time allows.

Thanks again for your input!

 - Davedub