IMS basic

[Sam G]

does anyone know or heard of IMS basic?

is it anything like Tbred, BBx, ProvideX?

or is it more like universal? (yuck)

sam

[Tom Langelaar]

Hi Sam,

Check this: http://www.imssoft.com/Languages/
Tells you about IMS Basic.
IMS Basic allows you to run IRIS (Data General Basic)) applications on Unix
and Windows systems.
Much like our more familiar Business Basics allowed legacy MAI/Basic Four
applications to run on Unix and Windows systems.

Regards,
Tom Langelaar

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[Sam G]

I saw this - but it did not give me any clue if this is more
like Pick, universal/nixdorf or the basic-4 like langauge.

there was a DG basic that was very roughly based on basic-4
it ran on Nova and later on AViiON.

I have heard or IRIS - but not sure it this was BASIC-4 based or
Nixdorf or Pick.

There are some jobs out there for this IMS basic they state they
are looking for someone with heavy 'business basic' but don't
state which one.

sam

[Pat Welch]

Hi, Sam.

IMS is from the Data General side of the BB tree, like BBx and Tbred are from the Basic-4 side.

There is no more than 40% commonality between the two major BB branches.

There's some major gotchas - like in IMS Basic a CALL is like a specialized subroutine stored in area common to all programs, but can't be modified because the routine is embedded in the language on a binary level.

Screen and file IO are especially different, with the IMS programmer having to do way more than a BBx programmer to perform simple operations like reading through a file or displaying a one-line message in the center of a screen.

In fact if you are from the B4 side, like me, IMS basic is like learning a brand new language, one that will have you swearing to yourself after only a short time trying to deal with it.

Good Luck.

Pat Welch, UBB Computer Services  a WCS Affiliate SCO Authorized Partner Microlite BackupEdge Certified Reseller Unix/Linux/Windows/Hardware Sales/Support (209) 745-1401 Cell: (209) 251-9120 Email: pat...@inreach.com

 

Sam G wrote:

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.117/2582 - Release Date: 12/22/09 10:22:00

  

[Mark Lewis]

IRIS was originally the Point4 operating system. IMS I believe is Doug
Chadwick's version of IRIS originally started at Keronix in California. It
is similar to DG and Nixdorf Basic.

Mark Lewis

[Mark Lewis]

I'm going to correct myself, too many years, Chadwick's product is UniBasic.
IMS Basic was the UNIX version of IRIS which was a proprietary OS of EDS
(Educational Data Systems - Paul Davies)that then became Point4 Corp.

Mark Lewis
Thoroughbred Software
V.P. Sales and Marketing
800-988-3536 936-756-7202 Fax 732-584-0002
m...@tbred.com
www.tbred.com

[Sam G]

thanks Pat (& Mark Lewis)

I've seen the Nixdorf/Universal basic - it is indeed like you
- no more the 40% (at best) commonality. - I just didn't know
which cateogry IMS falls under.

I do remember the 'original' DG basic -seemed like it had just
a bit more 'commonality' with Basic-IV - I guess DG made it
the 'fork on the road'.

thanks all.

sam

On Tue, 22 Dec 2009, Pat Welch wrote:

> Hi, Sam.
>
> IMS is from the Data General side of the BB tree, like BBx and Tbred are
> from the Basic-4 side.
>
> There is no more than 40% commonality between the two major BB branches.
>
> There's some major gotchas - like in IMS Basic a CALL is like a
> specialized subroutine stored in area common to all programs, but can't
> be modified because the routine is embedded in the language on a binary
> level.
>
> Screen and file IO are especially different, with the IMS programmer
> having to do way more than a BBx programmer to perform simple operations
> like reading through a file or displaying a one-line message in the
> center of a screen.
>
> In fact if you are from the B4 side, like me, IMS basic is like learning
> a brand new language, one that will have you swearing to yourself after
> only a short time trying to deal with it.
>
> Good Luck.
>

[Mark Lewis]

Sam:
It was a DG flavor. I worked for EDS (pre Point4) and Keronix and we sold
quite a number of the IRIS systems, At Keronix we developed a competitive
system, BITS which is now Unibasic, a competitor of IMS. You can see them
at www.dynamic.com. Both again started as the DG flavor of Basic.

Mark Lewis
Thoroughbred Software
V.P. Sales and Marketing
800-988-3536 936-756-7202 Fax 732-584-0002
m...@tbred.com
www.tbred.com

-----Original Message-----
From: busine...@googlegroups.com [mailto:busine...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Sam G
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 8:24 AM
To: busine...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [BB] IMS basic

[Thomas W Lasater]

Sam,

IMS programs just like IRIS business basic. Both use the search command to manage the keyed files. BIG difference from BBX and ProvidX. I have programmed in all these.

Thomas W Lasater

--- On Wed, 12/23/09, Sam G <sa...@profprog.com> wrote:

> From: Sam G <sa...@profprog.com>
> Subject: Re: [BB] IMS basic

[Thomas W Lasater]

All,

IRIS business basic was different than DG basic. EDS started IRIS, EDS became point4. IRIS business basic ran on the DG nova using the nova instruction and backplane.

Thomas W Lasater

--- On Wed, 12/23/09, Mark Lewis <m...@tbred.com> wrote:

> From: Mark Lewis <m...@tbred.com>
> Subject: RE: [BB] IMS basic
> To: busine...@googlegroups.com

[Sam G]

thanks Tom.

looking for work - would prefer providex (started with Rexxon in 1981,
later Basic-IV, then Tbred (worked for SMC for 2 years), later BBx
and Providex)

Saw job listing in oregon for IMS basic programmer - wanted to know
what it is.

I have seen the Nixdorf Basic - very suprised big players like 'compusa'
and 'insight' are using this dinassaur.

(then again, there is still some cobol out there)

Sam

[Jim Douglas]

There's much more than "some" COBOL out there; most high-volume business transactions globally are processed by COBOL.  There were several articles about the longevity of the language around its 50th birthday earlier this year.

http://www.cbronline.com/news/cobol_50_not_out_030809

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/apr/09/cobol-internet-programming

Business BASIC apps are still used for pretty much the same reason:  They encapsulate decades of business knowledge, they still address business needs, and they can continue to be migrated to current hardware & o/s platforms.

[Sam G]

thanks

has anyone ever undertakin an IMS or nixdorf to pvx (or bbx)
conversion project? - would that be all that hard to do?

sam

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[Tom Langelaar]

Sam,

Honestly, don't even think about it. Too much trouble.
In the nineties, some Germans and later some Dutch (both EDIAS customers)
tried to do it with support from us.
In fact, they managed to convert an application but it is one at the time.
There is no general simple conversion method. Each application needs to be
converted manually - at least 45%.
Nobody ever managed to make a business from it. Despite the fact that there
are indeed hundreds of legacy application out there.

Regards,
Tom Langelaar
EDIAS Software International
Your single source for ProvideX and PVXPlus
Serving the Business BASIC market best

[Jim Douglas]

That's my understanding too (never seen the language myself).  One of our customers converted a very large SNI (Siemens Nixdorf) app to BBx.  The process was labour-intensive, and involved rewriting the UI and manually copying over the business rules a block at a time.  It worked for them, but it wasn't what you'd call an automated process by any stretch.

[Sam G]

I am VERY good at parsing & replacing.

I've made VERY SIGINFICANT improvements to the bundle and unbundle
utilites for Thoroughbred to Providex - incluing tbred windows,
and #FORMATS used by tbred (as well as a large host of other stuff
the bunlde/unbundle utils don't/didn't account for)

granted I have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to IMS
basic - but .. still consider self as pretty-darn-good problem-solver.

sam

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