Burmilla ZA Breeding Guidelines

[Alida Delport]

Dear all,

This group was very quiet lately. We need to get some motion, as we face several challenges. 

The first challenge is that several people advised to use a Chinchilla only once on a pedigree. To me, colour-genetic-wise that does not make sense, especially when you start off with a blank slate of Chinchilla X Burmese. 

The Asian breed seems to face extreme challenges in getting popular. People do not want to buy them because some of them look like "street cats" (one potential client said to me). So, my advice is that we should first focus on colour, getting silver-silver Burmillas, Once you have a silver-silver cat (like Snowey), one can focus on eliminating a too-dense undercoat. I made a slide on what I think the road should be. 

If we do not do this, we will battle to make this a commercial viable breed program. 

Alida Delport, Cape Town
"How long will it take?
You are not separated from your goals by a number of years.
You are separated from your goals by a number of actions.
That puts control in your hands." -- Douglas Kruger

[wackey....@gmail.com]

Hallo Alida

You must remember that Snowey,Lene,Tiny Tim and Oscar were F2.Oscar was the first Tiffiny and the other 3 were silvers.The mother was St Jean a(Chinchilla) and there father was salvanus.

The Burmillas are of the best natured and loving cats around

Baie Groete

Donald

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[Lorinda Spies]

Hi Alida!  You're welcome to let me know how I can help when I start breeding with Mila and Mishke this year.  (Black silver shaded longhair burmillas for those who don't know.)  As I mentioned I'd like to concentrate on the longhairs as they're easier to sell (more popular) and I just find them irresistible!  I'd also like to try for golden Burmillas by crossing them with a golden Chinchilla.   Mila has a nice close-lying coat, but Mishke has a slightly thicker coat...don't know if that is a reason for concern.  A thicker coat certainly won't matter if sold as pets, but might be a problem if a breeder is interested.

[Denis Jansen]

Hi Alida,

I'm attaching a picture for you, off the Burmilla's breed group. Their the kitten on the right is classified as a Chocolate golden shaded Burmilla.

The same kitten here in South Africa we are calling an Asian.

Rather interesting, and this is an F3 generation kitty.

Kind regards

Denis

[Alida Delport]

Hi Denis,

The one rule that we have, is that if one of the direct parents is a Chinchilla, the kitten will be classified as a Burmilla. 

If the crossing is with a Golden Chinchilla (or a Golden carrier Chinchilla), and the kitten comes out as non-silver, that kitten will be a Golden Burmilla. 

When Andenika was mated to King Solomon (a Sliver Chinchilla who carries Golden), the litter was Darkie, Sparkie and Nymeria. Darkie and Sparkie are classified as Burmilla Blue Silver Shaded. Nymeria was classified as Burmilla Black Golden Shaded.

Alida Delport, Cape Town
"How long will it take?
You are not separated from your goals by a number of years.
You are separated from your goals by a number of actions.
That puts control in your hands." -- Douglas Kruger

[Johan Lamprecht]

Hi All

 

The rule of thumb is – if it is a silver or golden, it is a Burmilla, if it is non-silver and non-golden, it is an Asian.

 

Johan Lamprecht

 

From: Alida Delport

Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 5:53 PM

To: Burmilla Group

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[Denis Jansen]

Àwesome

[Russell Spargo]

Hi Alida

One maybe silly question.

We are currently putting Burmilla queens to Brmilla studs and getting manly Asians.  You are saying that we should put our Burmilla queens back to Chinchilla studs.

Why then are we keeping so many Burmilla studs as entires at present?    I have 4 studs that came from Denis who are all producing Asians. Would it not be better to neuter and re home these boys?

Would be interesting to get what others feel would be best for these boys that we arnt going to use as studs.

Thanks and regards

 

Russell Spargo 

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[Alida Delport]

Hi Russel,

That is not a silly question at all! 

One of my favourite quotes ever is from Jack London in his book "White Fang". The quote is: "The only way to find out is to find out."

First, we need to cross a Burmese to a Chinchilla to get a Burmilla. All these, F1p/F0g carry only one Colour Inhibitor gene. 

Our next challenge is to try and breed double Colour Inhibitor gene carriers. What did the late Alan Edwards do? Mating Peter Perfect to a Chinchilla. Statistically, the result would be 50% double Colour Inhibitor gene carriers. 

So, here we reach the point where the only way to find out is to find out. Alan's litter produced Snowey and Lené. They are F2p/F0g. 

Mating Snowey to a Burmese or F1p/F0g Burmilla, only produced Silvers so far. So, we can assume the changes are high that he is a double Colour Inhibitor gene carrier. Thumbs up for him in the Burmilla breeding program!  Look at what he and Andenika (Burmese) produced:

However, mating Snowey's sister, Lené, to a Burmese or F1p/F0g Burmilla, did produce non-Silvers (Asians). Am I correct? So, we can assume she is only a single Colour Inhibitor gene carrier. To avoid getting Asians, and to keep her genetics in the Burmilla breeding program is to either mate her back to a Chinchilla or a cat like Snowey.

So, Russel, at this stage it is not good to neuter and rehome the 5 studs that came from Denis. I will chat to you on that on a personal basis. It cost us a furtune to tests these cats for Hypokalemia. They are all clean. They should be used to establish a footprint - using Chinchilla females. 

I do not want to make this email too long - I hope it makes sense.

Alida Delport, Cape Town

"How long will it take?
You are not separated from your goals by a number of years.
You are separated from your goals by a number of actions.
That puts control in your hands." -- Douglas Kruger

[Russell Spargo]

Hi Alida

I see you must have been very busy as you never got back to me about the mating of these  Burmilla boys.  I still have the 2 Asian boys and am find it more difficult to re home them now as they are getting bigger and older.  When people see them they say to big for kittens and that they look just like an other domestic cat. 

I understand what you are saying about the cost of testing, but we must also think about what it best fro the boys themselves.  They are not going to be used as Burmilla to Burmilla studs.  Apart from the cost of keeping these 4 boys in 4 separate runs they are going to start loosing their lovely friendly nature.  Is it fair to them?  I am not prepared to have these lovely boys look at me day out and day in when I know there is actually no future in sight fro them.

Much as I regret to say this, I respectfully ask you to find another breeder to carry on this mating line for you.  I must put the welfare of the cats first and honestly feel that keeping boys in runs when nothing is happening is not in their best interest.

Please let me know what your plans are to re home these 4 boys so that we can move forward .

I await your valued reply

[Alida Delport]

Hi Russel,

I will contact you tomorrow after I confirmed with Denis and another potential breeder.

Alida Delport, Cape Town
"How long will it take?
You are not separated from your goals by a number of years.
You are separated from your goals by a number of actions.
That puts control in your hands." -- Douglas Kruger

[Russell Spargo]

Hi Alida

Which cats are to go to which potential breeders?

I await your valued reply

[Alida Delport]

Hi Russel,

Are you keeping the females?

Alida Delport, Cape Town
"How long will it take?
You are not separated from your goals by a number of years.
You are separated from your goals by a number of actions.
That puts control in your hands." -- Douglas Kruger

[Alida Delport]

Hi Donald,

Yes, Snowey, Lené and Tiny Tim are of the same litter. Is Oscar the LH brother?  

Just to get the terminology in line: I started to use F*p and F*g, where

• F = Filial generation
• p = phenotype ("looks like a ...")
• g = genotype ("both parents are ...")
• * = number of filials in a straight line.

Their dad is a Burmilla, their mother a  Chinchilla.

• Cherie-Shellden Snowey  (F2p, F0g) is silver-silver.
• How do we know that?
• He never produced any Asians so far, even if mated to a Burmese.
• There may be a very slight statistical chance that he does carry a non-silver gene,
  but that will only pop out one the "Pandora box" gets opened in future generations. 
• So, for now, unless our assumption gets proved wrong, we assume he is silver-silver.
• Snowey also carries a LH gene. 
• He is HK clean.
• Below some of his kittens with Cherie-Finesse Darkie (F1p, F0g).
  There is a LH on the left:
• 
  
  
• Cherie-Shelldon Lené  (F2p, F0g) is a  silver-somethingelse
  
• How do we know that?
• She produced Asians.
  
• 
  
• She also carries a LH gene. 
• She is HK clean.
• In her case, to avoid Asians in future, she only has to be bred to a Chinchilla, because we cannot breed her with her brother. If this is done, at least she will not throw Asians again. 
• If crossed with a Golden male, 50% of her kittens will be Silver, 50% will be Golden and 50% will be LH. 
• From a commercial point of view, at this stage that is the way to go - a Chinchilla male, either silver or Golden. At least all the kittens will be HK clean and non-Asian.

Remember, in future we can use Burmese to thin out the coats. For now, we need to survive financially as breeders and we need to focus on Silver first.

[Russell Spargo]

How many of the males are going for breeding?  Since I have 6 females it would make sense that if anyone is taking a male for breeding purposes then they would need a female as well.

Jean advises me that she bred a Chinchilla male as  a stud and that I should take him over.  She thinks he is no longer with you and is not sure who has hum then.  What do you think of this as a solution to the colour problem?

[Alida Delport]

Hi Russel,

Jean's stud cat, Cherie-Lee Snowball of Cherie-Finesse, is with Denis at the moment. He is earmarked to replace is dad, Cherie-Finesse Dear Nikki, in the future. Nikki turns 11 this year on 21 September, but he is still in prime condition and still mates like crazy :-) 

Of the studs at Russel: 

• (1) Denis will take back Cherie-Finesse Sparkie (F1p, F0g). 
  
• His pedigree is too precious to neuter him, because his dad, Catanova King Solomon, now lives in the USA. 
• He is HK tested clean.
• He is a SH Blue Silver Shaded.
• He carries Silver-SomethingElse.
• He carries a LH gene. 
• He carries the dilution gene.
• His sister, Darkie, also a SH Blue Silver Shaded, produces stunning kittens with Snowey or a Chinchilla stud - all Silver and some LH's too. This is how she looks like.
  
  But here are some of her kittens:
  
  ​
  ​
  
• To make Silvers, Darkie needs to be mated to either a Chinchilla or a double Silver Burmilla female. 
• He can serve as a test-stud to determine the silver status of a F2p or higher Burmilla female. If we mate him with a F2p or higher Burmilla female, and an Asian pops out, we can know for sure that that particular Burmilla female is Silver-SomethingElse. 
  
  
• (2) I will take back Cherie-Finesse Moon Shadow (F1p F0g). 
• I might mate him to a Chinchilla once more.
• Tested HK clean.
• He can also be used to determine the silver status of a F2p or higher Burmilla female.
• I will eventually vasectomize him to be used as Teaser Tom.
  
  
• (3) Cherie-Finesse Louis Braille (F3p F1g)
  
• Son of Cherie-Finesse Moon Shadow and Cherie-Finesse Adair Dehlia.
• Both parents tested HK clean, so he is clean.
• He might be double Silver - we will only know if we mate him to a Silver-SomethingElse female, like Lené or Robina.
• He might carry a LH gene.
  Maybe Lorinda Spies can help us here with one of her LH females from Darkie.  Then we will also know if her females are potentially Silver-Silver, because if a SH Asian pops out, we know the following:
• Louis is not Silver-Silver
• Louis does not carry a LH gene
• And her female is not a Silver-Silver.
• Therefore, Russel, please keep him for now and mate him to Lené and/or Piggy.
• The only way to find out is to find out!
• If you do not want to keep him, then he, Lené and Piggy can go to a potential new breeder.  We found a new potential breeder. I just still need to do an assessment. 
  
  
• (4) Mapantsula Rachmaninoff (F3p, F0g)
• Son of Snowey and a Brown Burmese mother (Mapantlula Liz)
• Expanding the genepool.
• To avoid Asians - use Chinchilla or Silver-Silver. 

​Hope this helps.​

Alida Delport, Cape Town
"How long will it take?
You are not separated from your goals by a number of years.
You are separated from your goals by a number of actions.
That puts control in your hands." -- Douglas Kruger