help selecting a high-end 22 target pistol
jf
I was hoping I could get some opinions and experiences with some of
the higher-end .22 target pistols. I currently own a Ruger MKIII and
an IZH-35M. I really like the IZH-35M, but it has been giving me too
many alibi's and I'd like to start considering what to upgrade to. I
am just a marksman and have only been shooting for a little less than
a year, so I am well aware that any of the high-end pistols and even
my Ruger will out-shoot me from a rest. But since it is rare to come
across many of these pistols on my local firing line, I'd like to tap
into the collective wisdom here and gain from those experiences since
I'm not able to handle or shoot any of these pistols locally. I'd
very much like to know how well the gun ran, ie. how often did it have
alibi's, and what ammo's did you find it liked? If you had any
issues, how was the customer service and availability of parts? Are
there any weak spots in the design; parts that tend to wear out or
break? Basically I want whatever I pick to serve me well for years,
run reliably without excess fuss, and hopefully remain supported by an
importer in the USA.
The top two pistols I'm considering are the Pardini SP (not sure
exactly which model yet. I like the idea of the electronic trigger
because it would allow for dry-firing without manipulating the bolt)
and the FWB AW93. I would also consider the Benelli MP-90S, and
perhaps a Walther or Hammerli or other should it come highly
recommended. I do like the low bore line of the European pistols, so
I'm not really interested in a High Standard or M41 or any Ruger MK-
series or Buckmark variations. I'm also not really interested in the
Marvel conversion, although I can see the wisdom of learning only one
gun.
Whatever I get, I will likely have anatomical grips constructed for,
so I'm not worried about hand fit, but I would like to hear about the
balance of the guns, ie. is it nose-heavy? How does the grip angle
feel? Would also appreciate any feedback regarding the various
Pardini models and the e-trigger.
Thanks in advance!
David Rodgers
From: jf <jesse....@gmail.com>
To: Bullseye L list <bullsey...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, February 28, 2012 5:06:08 PM
Subject: {Bullseye L List} help selecting a high-end 22 target pistol
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Pauley, Dan (RR Energy Systems)
Hmmmm, If you plan to shoot bullseye conventional pistol, you should not
rule out a Marvel. (IMHO)
If you plan to only shoot international rim fire and some conventional;
I'd get what ever your wallet will accept. All you mentioned were nice
but customer service and parts availability are NEVER going to be as
good for the high end Euro guns as they are for the Marvel, Ruger, High
Standard etc. products. If you happen to live near the
Pardini/FWB/Benelli/Hammerli distributor it may be different but still
going to be lead time between warranty work.
So if you wanted my opinion, I would recommend you re-think your goals
and firearm needs.
If you planned on shooting conventional pistol (2700 matches, Indoor,
outdoor and the nationals)
I would recommend a 1911 of fair to good quality. Somewhere between
Springfield Range officer and Les Baer Custom. Then a Marvel precision
rimfire conversion. A progressive reloader and the rest of you budget
spent on ammo components and range time.
It has never been about the bow or the arrow, it is the Archer. (IMHO)
R. Dan Pauley
John Coulter
>
> I was hoping I could get some opinions and experiences with some of
> the higher-end .22 target pistols. I currently own a Ruger MKIII and
> an IZH-35M. I really like the IZH-35M, but it has been giving me too
> many alibi's and I'd like to start considering what to upgrade to.
You have two pistols with extended grip angles. Have you shot any
that had a "1911" grip angle? Can you articulate why you're not
interested in affordable, accurate domestic guns? Do you have a 1911?
Consider a conversion.
Why not just keep shooting the Ruger? If you're a marksman, that
pistol can teach you plenty, and for a long time. You can only buy so
many points, that figure is low, and they are generally Master points.
My advice: buy ammo, targets, and practice more. Dry fire more.
David Rodgers wrote:
> Price for value + accuracy, you cant beat the Hammerli exsse,
My Trailside/Xesse is no more accurate than my Buck Mark. The
differences between the two are completely subjective. Different
grips, triggers, and weight distribution. The other thing about the
Xesse is that the rear sight is mounted on the slide, not the
barrel/frame, and is potentially subject to battering damage or poor
lockup issues. That said, mine is quite accurate. Most days I shoot
the Buck Mark better, though. :)
JC
David DiOrio
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jf
Doug Hall
Sent from my iPhone
I guess I should add that my goal is bullseye, not international. I already have a Les Baer PII 1.5"G with frame mount and dot. I will consider giving the Marvel conversion another look. However I am not really a fan of the 1911 grip angle (sacrilege, I know...). I'm not trying to buy points, like I said in my original post, I know the Ruger is more accurate than me. I know that there is only one way to points, and that's time-and-practice. Still, let's pretend I am a fool with plenty of money, ready to be parted over a nice 22 target pistol.
--
Jerry Goldfarb
I say keep trying until you find the “one.” There are no rules in this sport/hobby as what constitute one’s enjoyment. You may have to buy/sell a number of candidates before you determine which one wins you. Life is short so enjoy and spend.
--
Bruce Em
| You want high end? Not too many choices anymore Pardini, Hammerli 208S (discontinued), or Walther GSP I love the 208 and won't part with it but my current pick would be the Pardini at ~$1800 The Walther doesn't do it for me but many like them so you have to try different guns out. under that, look at an older but nice shape S&W 41 regards --- On Tue, 2/28/12, John Coulter <contac...@gmail.com> wrote: |
|
|
|
Bruce Em
| Don't hear anything on it anymore. Weren't the Marines using them? regards --- On Tue, 2/28/12, jf <jesse....@gmail.com> wrote: |
|
|
David Rodgers
Dave, Sent from My iphone
Steve Turner
kate schaumann
I second everything that Steve says about the AW-93 and I want to add a couple of things. The trigger is probably the best and the most operator adjustable of any gun but it is extremely easy to screw up royally if you are not careful.
I hear Brenzovich has a new scope mount that remedies some of the deficiencies of the old one and since the scope doesn't mount on a moving slide you MAY be able to get by with an aimpoint knock off. The BME mount works fine but adds quite a bit of weight to the gun and changing back to irons is not quick or easy.
The iron sights on this gun are big and beautiful but removing and installing the rear sight is problematic and not something that can be done in a jiffy. It likes to be clean, and will shoot CCI SV but mine both love Wolf Match Target and they hate Aguilla. They are tight chambered guns and were designed for Lapua ammo, (so I have been told.)
Most people find that when they make their rimfire guns as much like their 45 as possible, their 2700 scores improve. This is why the Marvel is so popular, and why so many shoot their 45s for Center fire.
Dave Somers
I have shot Ruger MKIII, S&W 41, and Pardini SP New. I also shoot a .45 and
several other .22's. I "like" the Pardini the best. As you, like the grip
angle, the gun shoots pretty much everything I put in it, and the two-stage
trigger is very adjustable. The open sights are really nice - best of any
pistol I have. I do have a Ultradot mounted on mine at the moment but
probably going to take it off after winter league and shoot open sights.
I have shot CCI SV, Armscor SV, SK Standard Plus, and Federal Bulk Match -
all without a problem. The gun is easy to take down for cleaning too.
Dry firing is a little bit of a PITA but really no worse than others. a
plastic .22 with one side of the rim (extractor side) trimmed off works
well.
I am Marksman also so knew I wasn't buying points but buying pistol for the
future and for my enjoyment.
I don't think I would go with the electronic trigger. I don't have
experience with one but the two stage trigger of the SP is very nice and as
I said adjustable to just about any way you want it.
If you can afford it - go for it!
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: bullsey...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:bullsey...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of jf
Hi all:
Thanks in advance!
--
Pauley, Dan (RR Energy Systems)
slab side grips. Arched MSH is completely different than a flat MSH.
Triggers can be Long, Medium, or short. How you grip the pistol changes
everything.
Shorter fingers (like mine) I tend to prefer short trigger and flat MSH
using a Zins grip. Prior to that I used just the pad of my finger with
a Arched MSH and long trigger. Don't give up. Experiment with a cheap
1911 putting your own inexpensive components in. Then once you decide
you can have Baer or whom ever install proper fitted parts.
R. Dan Pauley
J. anthony Taraszka
Subject: {Bullseye L List} help selecting a high-end 22 target pistol
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carlos da silva
Have also had and shot for awhile MG2 and AW93 I was holding for a friend while waiting his permits.
> Subject: {Bullseye L List} help selecting a high-end 22 target pistol
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william wallace
william wallace
----- Original Message -----From: lenw...@aol.comSent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 2:56 PMSubject: Re: {Bullseye L List} help selecting a high-end 22 target pistolTry Larry's in Maine
Stephen Price
I started with a Ruger MKII, open sites. I was one of the lucky ones
I guess, my very first match ever I scored an 812 with the 22. I
continued to shoot with open sights and after getting to about 835 and
holding, poor technique and little training were probably the problem,
I switched to a red dot sight. My scores immediately jumped to 855.
I fired my personal best with my currently owned Ruger MKII SS Slab
Slide with an Ultra dot sight, 882. That was a very good and unusual
day. I have since then changed to a Pardini SP which I purchased from
Don Nygord. It has served me well, Don was a wonderful person. He
help me tune my trigger a year after I bought the pistol. My scores
have not gone up because I use a Pardini but they have become more
consistently on the high end of my abilities. It is no longer just a
good day to shoot in the 860's, for me I expect it and I know that my
equipment can deliver if I do. That is one of the main things a
Pardini has given me, confidence. We all know that this game is
mostly mental. The Rugerv MKII, clean or dirty as I rarely ever clean
any of my guns, Pardini's included, will take you to the top of your
game. A lot of it is just what do you want. Any of the good 22's can
win the Nationals, it is really just up to you.
That being said, GO PARDINI !!! LOL
Stephen
--
Stephen
Any time spent being emotional is time taken away from making a good decision.
R Giuliani on 9/11
David Daniels
flat MS housings, at least in Bullseye competition. I *can* see a
rationale for combat shooting, but in BE, one aligns the sights with
each other and the target and presses the ti=rigger to the rear until
the gun fires. How does one type of MSH vary this process??
dd
On Feb 29, 2012, at 8:52 AM, Pauley, Dan (RR Energy Systems) wrote:
> Arched MSH is completely different than a flat MSH.
>
>
> R. Dan Pauley
>
Jack H
| Model 1911(flat MSH) was respeced and called 1911A1(arched MSH) about year 1924. That change had something to do with point if impact for the average GI Joe. Our position must be as "natural" as possible. But also effective for making the best shot(s). Your arm height, shoulder height, head height, and body lean, all affect the final wrist angle when sights are aligned with the eye. So too will the MSH affect the final muzzle angle up or down. Until they make a grip backstrap that curves around my thumb ham, I can not do the Zins grip. Jack H --- On Wed, 2/29/12, David Daniels <dh...@comcast.net> wrote: |
Gregg
I found that using an Arched vs flat MSH does matter to me.
Using a flat MSH in my left hand and I consistently have to adjust the gun higher to put it on target. Put that same gun in my right hand and it's right on target. The reverse is true when using an arched MSH. During slow that isn't too big a deal, but it does put my wrist at the wrong angle. During sustained fire it does become a big deal. I'm no longer recovering with my natural wrist angle into the right place on the target. There's the extra step of changing wrist angle to get on target.
David Daniels <dh...@comcast.net> Feb 29 04:29PM -0500
R. Dan, I have not had a difference in shooting a 1911 with arched vs
flat MS housings, at least in Bullseye competition. I *can* see a
rationale for combat shooting, but in BE, one aligns the sights with
each other and the target and presses the ti=rigger to the rear until
the gun fires. How does one type of MSH vary this process??
dd
-- Gregg Gammie Yo Quiero Libertad!! Whi...@WhippetRacing.org Viva el Insurgente! Fax: 413-647-7553 "Passwords are like underwear. Change yours often, don't share with friends, be mysterious and don't leave them lying around." -- posted on Facebook "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." -- Flannery O'Connor Speak to me kindly, beloved master. Revel in my unconditional love, and give me every minute that you can spare, for my time with you is short. Your faithful dog "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." Anonymous
Ted Drott
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Gregg
That is probably true for you. It's not for me. The trick is for each shooter to find out if it matters for them. BTW I used a "Zins" grip for each hand. Also found that even though I have relatively long fingers I have much better trigger control with a short trigger.
Allen Schirado
Just an FYI in case someone else wants to give it a try.
Al Schirado
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." —UNKOWN
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 12:52:01 -0600
From: Whi...@WhippetRacing.org
To: bullsey...@googlegroups.com
Subject: {Bullseye L List} Re: high-end 22 target pistol