Accuracy - .45 acp vs 9mm
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Joe
Dec 8, 2013, 10:15:06 AM12/8/13
to Bullseye Forum
Really need to get your opinions on this. Once and for
all, is the tuned up for Bullseye 9mm more accurate at 50 yards than the tuned
up for Bullseye .45 acp? From that message on this forum last week, it looks
like the AMU seems to think so. Have I been shooting the wrong pistol in
Centerfire for all these years?
David Rodgers
Dec 8, 2013, 10:40:51 AM12/8/13
to Joe, Bullseye Forum
Is a 45 more accurate than a 9? No. Can they both be made to shoot to the same sub 1 inch at 50 yard accuracy. Yes they can if you have the money to invest in the guns built by the people who create these tack drivers and the funds to feed them the ammo to finish the job. The only problem with the 9 in that if looking to get the military's results is they have special built match ammo that you will not have access too.
Dave, Sent from My iphone
Dave, Sent from My iphone
Really need to get your opinions on this. Once and for all, is the tuned up for Bullseye 9mm more accurate at 50 yards than the tuned up for Bullseye .45 acp? From that message on this forum last week, it looks like the AMU seems to think so. Have I been shooting the wrong pistol in Centerfire for all these years?
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Ammoguru
Dec 8, 2013, 10:43:30 AM12/8/13
to Joe, Bullseye Forum
Joe
A classic question! The 9 is technically, or actually more accurate than the 45. But, it is far more reactive then the 45.
Good part about the 9, 2 1/2 lb trigger pull. Shoots under .75" at 50; virtually no recoil. Fast recovery time.
A classic question! The 9 is technically, or actually more accurate than the 45. But, it is far more reactive then the 45.
Good part about the 9, 2 1/2 lb trigger pull. Shoots under .75" at 50; virtually no recoil. Fast recovery time.
Regards, Neil NSK Sales Co. n...@nsksales.com 410-833-2100 | Fax:410-833-2101
On 12/8/2013 10:15 AM, Joe wrote:
Really need to get your opinions on this. Once and for all, is the tuned up for Bullseye 9mm more accurate at 50 yards than the tuned up for Bullseye .45 acp? From that message on this forum last week, it looks like the AMU seems to think so. Have I been shooting the wrong pistol in Centerfire for all these years?
KC Crawford
Dec 8, 2013, 11:13:37 AM12/8/13
to Ammoguru, Joe, Bullseye Forum
Joe, I have to agree with what Neil is saying as well as David. But on the "realistic" side of the coin, would you rather have that scratch 9 with a 45 caliber hole? Or have that same scratch 9 with a 9mm that is DEFINATELY a 9 or even possibly an 8. If you have the money to invest and feed a 9mm it's a great way to go. But that path is VERY narrow and the slightest deviation off that path will lead to down a road you don't want to go. Just my 2 cents from building em.
cj...@cox.net
Dec 8, 2013, 12:01:28 PM12/8/13
to Joe, Bullseye Forum
I shoot Bullseye with a Clark .45ACP Longslide; it groups under 3" at 50 yds in my Ransom Rest. When I shoot centerfire, I also have a S&W 52 and a S&W 952 that I can pick from. The 52 is a soft-recoiling pistol that groups under 3" at 50 yds. The 952 recoils the same as my Longslide and groups under 1" at 50 yds. If I shoot centerfire with another pistol, I generally choose the 52 rather than the 952. All of my pistols are more accurate than I am. I usually go for the ones that allow me a better recovery in rapid fire.
YMMV.
Cliff in Baton Rouge
---- Joe <jnov...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Really need to get your opinions on this. Once and for all, is the tuned up for Bullseye 9mm more accurate at 50 yards than the tuned up for Bullseye .45 acp? From that message on this forum last week, it looks like the AMU seems to think so. Have I been shooting the wrong pistol in Centerfire for all these years?
>
> --
.
YMMV.
Cliff in Baton Rouge
---- Joe <jnov...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Really need to get your opinions on this. Once and for all, is the tuned up for Bullseye 9mm more accurate at 50 yards than the tuned up for Bullseye .45 acp? From that message on this forum last week, it looks like the AMU seems to think so. Have I been shooting the wrong pistol in Centerfire for all these years?
>
> --
David Rodgers
Dec 8, 2013, 6:51:17 PM12/8/13
to KC Crawford, Ammoguru, Joe, Bullseye Forum
Maybe I worded it wrong. A 9 by the fact the bullet is smaller could in a perfect world shoot a smaller group size thus it would be the more accurate. That said the chance of you lining up all the stars in the galaxy to produce that group are much less than being able to do it with a 45. Also in my experience there is quite a bit of recoil to the 9 load that is capable of 50 yard accuracy. The 45 is IMO much easier to produce good groups with for most of us.
Dave, Sent from My iphoneul
Dave, Sent from My iphoneul
Ammoguru
Dec 9, 2013, 7:44:48 AM12/9/13
to David Rodgers, KC Crawford, Joe, Bullseye Forum
Dave
You still don't get it. Bullet size has little bearing on group size (group size is determined by subtracting the bullets diameter from the group, and then measuring the "outside to outside dimension"). For example, a .22 could group 2" and a .50 could group .000". that is the size of the group, not the size of the hole! A 9mm is, under ideal conditions, say, out of a barrel tester, given all things being equal (ie: barrel tester, perfectly designed and constructed ammunition) is more accurate than a .45 under the exact same conditions.
The question was, which is more accurate? The answer is: the 9mm. All of the other answers that were given, were conditional or relative, as it applied to them. But, after scientific testing, the absolute answer to the question is still the same.
Also, a quick side-bar, the .38, is not even in the game, as far as absolute accuracy is concerned.
You still don't get it. Bullet size has little bearing on group size (group size is determined by subtracting the bullets diameter from the group, and then measuring the "outside to outside dimension"). For example, a .22 could group 2" and a .50 could group .000". that is the size of the group, not the size of the hole! A 9mm is, under ideal conditions, say, out of a barrel tester, given all things being equal (ie: barrel tester, perfectly designed and constructed ammunition) is more accurate than a .45 under the exact same conditions.
The question was, which is more accurate? The answer is: the 9mm. All of the other answers that were given, were conditional or relative, as it applied to them. But, after scientific testing, the absolute answer to the question is still the same.
Also, a quick side-bar, the .38, is not even in the game, as far as absolute accuracy is concerned.
Regards, Neil NSK Sales Co. n...@nsksales.com 410-833-2100 | Fax:410-833-2101
David Rodgers
Dec 9, 2013, 8:44:17 AM12/9/13
to Ammoguru, KC Crawford, Joe, Bullseye Forum
Your question was on bullseye guns, Neil has schooled us on which he considers more accurate. I'd still say a 45 can be just as accurate in his perfect world scenario but in the real world you will find it takes much more than a gun to produce good scores and getting there with a 9 much harder to do than a 45.
Dave, Sent from My iphone
Ammoguru
Dec 9, 2013, 2:16:50 PM12/9/13
to David Rodgers, KC Crawford, Joe, Bullseye Forum
Dave
Now you are heading in the right direction! The real question is not about "Absolute Accuracy," vs, "Relative Accuracy." This is a discussion that I have had with many a 'smith, which separates a gunsmith from a shooter.
You see, a gunsmith must strive for absolute accuracy, and functionality. Where a shooter has a whole different set of problems. Hence, relative accuracy.
A great marksman won the National's with a gun that shot 3". As the accuracy was tested later, after the match was over...but, the shooter or champion, had no idea that the gun was no longer producing 1" groups, when it was tested before the Canton Regional's. However, the trigger was every bit as good as the day it was built.
Personally, I am a GREAT believer in "Relative Accuracy." Because there is much more to Marksmanship than the Absolute Accuracy of a firearm!
Show me a person that can shoot 2" or less at 50 yards and I'll show you the next National Champion! By the way, I can name a few!
Now you are heading in the right direction! The real question is not about "Absolute Accuracy," vs, "Relative Accuracy." This is a discussion that I have had with many a 'smith, which separates a gunsmith from a shooter.
You see, a gunsmith must strive for absolute accuracy, and functionality. Where a shooter has a whole different set of problems. Hence, relative accuracy.
A great marksman won the National's with a gun that shot 3". As the accuracy was tested later, after the match was over...but, the shooter or champion, had no idea that the gun was no longer producing 1" groups, when it was tested before the Canton Regional's. However, the trigger was every bit as good as the day it was built.
Personally, I am a GREAT believer in "Relative Accuracy." Because there is much more to Marksmanship than the Absolute Accuracy of a firearm!
Show me a person that can shoot 2" or less at 50 yards and I'll show you the next National Champion! By the way, I can name a few!
Regards, Neil NSK Sales Co. n...@nsksales.com 410-833-2100 | Fax:410-833-2101
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