Thoughts on improving bootstrapping, upgrading and version pinning

[Jim Fulton]

I've been thinking of ways to address some related problems:

https://github.com/buildout/buildout/wiki/Bootstrapping_Upgrading_Pinning_Oh_My

Somewhat related is that I think a lot of our pain has been related to living with setuptools' installation model.  Working with this model made sense when setuptools was the standard library, but I think we should start to take a step back and look for simpler models.  I especially think the whole "environment" model has been somewhat counter-productive for us.

Jim

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Jim Fulton
http://jimfulton.info

[Maurits van Rees]

Your proposed changes in the wiki make sense.

I won’t be at PyCon.

As an anecdote, earlier this week I had trouble on a server when trying to bootstrap zc.buildout with a virtualenv and pip. It was on an old Suse Linux Enterprise Server 11. Due to certificate problems, pip could not get anything from PyPI. I tried various things, including downloading a new certificate file, or always trusting pypi, but it didn’t work. Some suggested options were not available on the old pip version, which didn’t help. I guess I could have manually downloaded a fresher pip and maybe could have moved forward with that. But I reverted to the old bootstrap.py and everything was fine.

I am happy to move to virtualenv, pip and requirements.txt as recommended bootstrapping procedure instead of bootstrap.py. But let’s please also keep bootstrap.py around for the foreseeable future. It can still save someone’s bacon.

Maurits van Rees

http://maurits.vanrees.org

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[Jim Fulton]

On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 7:46 AM, Maurits van Rees <mau...@vanrees.org> wrote:

Your proposed changes in the wiki make sense.

I won’t be at PyCon.

As an anecdote, earlier this week I had trouble on a server when trying to bootstrap zc.buildout with a virtualenv and pip. It was on an old Suse Linux Enterprise Server 11. Due to certificate problems, pip could not get anything from PyPI. I tried various things, including downloading a new certificate file, or always trusting pypi, but it didn’t work. Some suggested options were not available on the old pip version, which didn’t help. I guess I could have manually downloaded a fresher pip and maybe could have moved forward with that. But I reverted to the old bootstrap.py and everything was fine.

I am happy to move to virtualenv, pip and requirements.txt as recommended bootstrapping procedure instead of bootstrap.py.

IMO, that will be too complicated and ultimately just as brittle.

 

But let’s please also keep bootstrap.py around for the foreseeable future. It can still save someone’s bacon.

I'm hopeful that we can create a simpler and more robust version (that doesn't rely on ez_setup).

Jim

 

Maurits van Rees

http://maurits.vanrees.org

On 2 May 2017, at 14:39, Jim Fulton <j...@jimfulton.info> wrote:

I've been thinking of ways to address some related problems:

https://github.com/buildout/buildout/wiki/Bootstrapping_Upgrading_Pinning_Oh_My

Somewhat related is that I think a lot of our pain has been related to living with setuptools' installation model.  Working with this model made sense when setuptools was the standard library, but I think we should start to take a step back and look for simpler models.  I especially think the whole "environment" model has been somewhat counter-productive for us.

Jim

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Jim Fulton
http://jimfulton.info

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