[Jim Fulton]

bin/buildout
Getting distribution for 'zc.buildout>=2.0.0b2'.
Got zc.buildout 2.2.0.
Getting distribution for 'setuptools>=0.7'.
Got setuptools 0.7.4.
While:
Installing.
Checking for upgrades.

An internal error occured due to a bug in either zc.buildout or in a
recipe being used:
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/Users/jim/.buildout/eggs/zc.buildout-2.0.0b2-py2.6.egg/zc/buildout/buildout.py",
line 1808, in main
getattr(buildout, command)(args)
File "/Users/jim/.buildout/eggs/zc.buildout-2.0.0b2-py2.6.egg/zc/buildout/buildout.py",
line 455, in install
self._maybe_upgrade()
File "/Users/jim/.buildout/eggs/zc.buildout-2.0.0b2-py2.6.egg/zc/buildout/buildout.py",
line 888, in _maybe_upgrade
allow_hosts = self._allow_hosts
File "/Users/jim/.buildout/eggs/zc.buildout-2.0.0b2-py2.6.egg/zc/buildout/easy_install.py",
line 759, in install
return installer.install(specs, working_set)
File "/Users/jim/.buildout/eggs/zc.buildout-2.0.0b2-py2.6.egg/zc/buildout/easy_install.py",
line 604, in install
ws.add(dist)
File "/Users/jim/.buildout/eggs/distribute-0.6.34-py2.6.egg/pkg_resources.py",
line 538, in add
dist.insert_on(self.entries, entry)
File "/Users/jim/.buildout/eggs/distribute-0.6.34-py2.6.egg/pkg_resources.py",
line 2356, in insert_on
"with distribute. Found one at %s" % str(self.location))
ValueError: A 0.7-series setuptools cannot be installed with
distribute. Found one at
/Users/jim/.buildout/eggs/setuptools-0.7.4-py2.6.egg

Does anyone but me think this is a problem?

Does anyone have any ideas how to make this easier?

Jim

--
Jim Fulton
http://www.linkedin.com/in/jimfulton

[Sebastien Douche]

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Jim Fulton <j...@zope.com> wrote:

> File "/Users/jim/.buildout/eggs/distribute-0.6.34-py2.6.egg/pkg_resources.py",
> line 2356, in insert_on
> "with distribute. Found one at %s" % str(self.location))
> ValueError: A 0.7-series setuptools cannot be installed with
> distribute. Found one at
> /Users/jim/.buildout/eggs/setuptools-0.7.4-py2.6.egg
>
> Does anyone but me think this is a problem?

You can't upgrade from Distribute to Setuptools I think. You must use
Distribute 0.7.x (wrapper on Setuptools) or switch manually between
Setuptools and Distribute on your system.


--
Sebastien Douche <sdo...@gmail.com>
Twitter: @sdouche / G+: +sdouche

[Jim Fulton]

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 8:43 AM, Sebastien Douche <sdo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Jim Fulton <j...@zope.com> wrote:
>
>> File "/Users/jim/.buildout/eggs/distribute-0.6.34-py2.6.egg/pkg_resources.py",
>> line 2356, in insert_on
>> "with distribute. Found one at %s" % str(self.location))
>> ValueError: A 0.7-series setuptools cannot be installed with
>> distribute. Found one at
>> /Users/jim/.buildout/eggs/setuptools-0.7.4-py2.6.egg
>>
>> Does anyone but me think this is a problem?
>
> You can't upgrade from Distribute to Setuptools I think. You must use
> Distribute 0.7.x (wrapper on Setuptools) or switch manually between
> Setuptools and Distribute on your system.

distribute 0.7 isn't in pypi. How would you recommend we tell people
to upgrade to distribute 0.7?

Please folks, try to think of users who aren't intimately involved in
packaging development.

I suppose right now we'd have to tell people to re-bootstrap all
of their buildouts, although this seems a bit harsh.

[Sebastien Douche]

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Jim Fulton <j...@zope.com> wrote:
>> You can't upgrade from Distribute to Setuptools I think. You must use
>> Distribute 0.7.x (wrapper on Setuptools) or switch manually between
>> Setuptools and Distribute on your system.

"Upgrading from Distribute
Currently, Distribute disallows installing Setuptools 0.7+ over
Distribute. You must first uninstall any active version of Distribute
first (see Uninstalling)."

from https://bitbucket.org/pypa/setuptools#rst-header-upgrading-from-distribute

> distribute 0.7 isn't in pypi. How would you recommend we tell people
> to upgrade to distribute 0.7?

Distribute is deprecated. The best way is to eradicate it once and for
all I think.

> Please folks, try to think of users who aren't intimately involved in
> packaging development.

Not sure to understand your point of view. It's mainly our (ie the
buildout community) fault: It's was a mistake to remove the Setuptools
support (easy to say I know). If a user upgrade from Buildout 1.5 /
Setuptools 0.6c12, the process should be smooth.

[Jim Fulton]

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Sebastien Douche <sdo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Jim Fulton <j...@zope.com> wrote:
>>> You can't upgrade from Distribute to Setuptools I think. You must use
>>> Distribute 0.7.x (wrapper on Setuptools) or switch manually between
>>> Setuptools and Distribute on your system.
>
> "Upgrading from Distribute
> Currently, Distribute disallows installing Setuptools 0.7+ over
> Distribute. You must first uninstall any active version of Distribute
> first (see Uninstalling)."
>
> from https://bitbucket.org/pypa/setuptools#rst-header-upgrading-from-distribute
>
>> distribute 0.7 isn't in pypi. How would you recommend we tell people
>> to upgrade to distribute 0.7?
>
> Distribute is deprecated. The best way is to eradicate it once and for
> all I think.
>
>> Please folks, try to think of users who aren't intimately involved in
>> packaging development.
>
> Not sure to understand your point of view.

Most of our users don't follow this crap. We need to have
instructions that are at least straightforward to follow, if we
can't automate it.

> It's mainly our (ie the
> buildout community) fault: It's was a mistake to remove the Setuptools
> support (easy to say I know).

Gaaaaaa (me suppresses rage).

It's actually tarek's fault for dumping this on us in the first place.

> If a user upgrade from Buildout 1.5 /
> Setuptools 0.6c12, the process should be smooth.

Have you tested this, I wonder?

[Tres Seaver]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

We need to push to have the distribute 0.7 meta-egg released: then we
can just tell people to upgrade the distribute in their virtualenv first.



Tres.
- --
===================================================================
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tse...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design" http://palladion.com
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[Reinout van Rees]

Uninstalling distribute? Nice for those with the distribute they got from their Ubuntu package...

Distribute deprecated and must-be-eradicated? Well, the same was said of the virtually unmaintained setuptools. Remember the use-pip-plus-distribute soviet-style propaganda images?

I don't know why distribute users should bear the pain caused by the bad original maintainership of setuptools...

Reinout van Rees
http://reinout.vanrees.org/
(Sent from my iPad, so it is probably short)

[Tres Seaver]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 06/24/2013 05:06 PM, Reinout van Rees wrote:

> Uninstalling distribute? Nice for those with the distribute they got
> from their Ubuntu package...

Those users need to be lobbying their distro to release a
'python-setuptools' 0.7.x package to get them out of the dead end they
are in.

> Distribute deprecated and must-be-eradicated? Well, the same was said
> of the virtually unmaintained setuptools. Remember the
> use-pip-plus-distribute soviet-style propaganda images?

I remember the propaganda, but never bought it. People who *do* buy into
propaganda have some reponsibility for the consequences, no?

> I don't know why distribute users should bear the pain caused by the
> bad original maintainership of setuptools...

I think you are missing the point: a distribute 0.7 meta-release is
*for* those users, because it allows them to upgrade from distribute
0.6.x into the brave new post-merge world. Jason says that there are
some reports that pip cannot upgrade to distribute 0.7.x: I cannot
reproduce that myself.

Tres.
- --
===================================================================
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tse...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design" http://palladion.com
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[Sebastien Douche]

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Reinout van Rees
<reinout...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Uninstalling distribute? Nice for those with the distribute they got from their Ubuntu package...

Hi Reinout. I talked about advanced users (with manual installation of
Python and / or Distribute). For normal users, Ubuntu will switch for
them.

> Distribute deprecated and must-be-eradicated? Well, the same was said of the virtually unmaintained setuptools.Remember the use-pip-plus-distribute soviet-style propaganda images?

Do you remember the state of Setuptools? No Py3 support, no SVN 1.5+
support, no bugs support. Do you know the last version of setuptools
when Elby was the maintainer? 0.6c11, released on 2009-10-20.
Code of Setuptools 0.7 = mainly the code of distribute.

> I don't know why distribute users should bear the pain caused by the bad original maintainership of setuptools...

The new distribute maintainer wants to use the name "setuptools", and
not "distribute". I am a bit disappointed with this decision but we
must take notice.

With Python 3.4, I hope this issue will be resolved.

[Cédric de Saint Martin]

On 24 juin 2013, at 23:24, Tres Seaver <tse...@palladion.com> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 06/24/2013 05:06 PM, Reinout van Rees wrote:
>
>> Uninstalling distribute? Nice for those with the distribute they got
>> from their Ubuntu package...
>
> Those users need to be lobbying their distro to release a
> 'python-setuptools' 0.7.x package to get them out of the dead end they
> are in.

I'm sorry but... Do we really need the distributions to be updated to have "normal users" able to use buildout?
I don't want to start a flame war, but the release/merge of setuptools/distribute gave many users bad headaches.

The recent activity on setuptools is really great. The merge was the best thing that could have happened. But honestly, our team already having lost several days of work because of the 0.7 release that didn't work (because of distribute or many different things), when you say "please wait 4 months that a new major release of Ubuntu is out (because I don't think they'll switch so easily to new setuptools in a minor release) so that your users can use buildout", i'm getting mad.

I haven't said anything until now, because I know it's *hard* to make this work and be released as expected. But please, take into consideration that the vast majority of setuptools/distribute users don't give a shit about this (most of them don't even know what it is), but they just want something that works without having to loose half a day. Ideally, it should be completely transparent for the user. In the worst case, he should have to do something trivial.

I still feel that there is no good reason not to release (for real, i.e on the cheeseshop and so on) a dummy distribute 0.7 depending on setuptools 0.7. Maybe I missed a point? Would it break even more things?

Cedric

>
>> Distribute deprecated and must-be-eradicated? Well, the same was said
>> of the virtually unmaintained setuptools. Remember the
>> use-pip-plus-distribute soviet-style propaganda images?
>
> I remember the propaganda, but never bought it. People who *do* buy into
> propaganda have some reponsibility for the consequences, no?
>
>> I don't know why distribute users should bear the pain caused by the
>> bad original maintainership of setuptools...
>
> I think you are missing the point: a distribute 0.7 meta-release is
> *for* those users, because it allows them to upgrade from distribute
> 0.6.x into the brave new post-merge world. Jason says that there are
> some reports that pip cannot upgrade to distribute 0.7.x: I cannot
> reproduce that myself.
>
>
> Tres.
> - --
> ===================================================================
> Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tse...@palladion.com
> Palladion Software "Excellence by Design" http://palladion.com
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/
>
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> =6gux
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Buildout Development" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to buildout-develop...@googlegroups.com.
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>
>

[Sebastien Douche]

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 5:00 PM, Jim Fulton <j...@zope.com> wrote:

> Gaaaaaa (me suppresses rage).

Sorry. It was not an attack. But unfortunately, Buildout has switched
to Distribute the same time as the new Distribute maintainer said
"Distribute is deprecated". Bad luck.

> It's actually tarek's fault for dumping this on us in the first place.

Setuptools was blocked by Eby, not Tarek.

> Have you tested this, I wonder?

Yes, it works.

[Jim Fulton]

On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Sebastien Douche <sdo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 5:00 PM, Jim Fulton <j...@zope.com> wrote:
>
>> Gaaaaaa (me suppresses rage).
>
> Sorry. It was not an attack. But unfortunately, Buildout has switched
> to Distribute the same time as the new Distribute maintainer said
> "Distribute is deprecated". Bad luck.

Actually, it switched at least a year earlier. Many years earlier
if you take Python 3 into account.

>
>> It's actually tarek's fault for dumping this on us in the first place.
>
> Setuptools was blocked by Eby, not Tarek.

They were a dynamic duo. It's not as if Tarek actually did that
much after the fork. It would have been far better for people to work
with Eby. It was totally feasible. I'd made minor contributions. It was
in the python repo. Eby didn't really block contributions.

>
>> Have you tested this, I wonder?
>
> Yes, it works.

Cool. Good for Buildout 1 users.

[Jim Fulton]

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 9:31 AM, Jim Fulton <j...@zope.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 8:43 AM, Sebastien Douche <sdo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Jim Fulton <j...@zope.com> wrote:
>>
>>> File "/Users/jim/.buildout/eggs/distribute-0.6.34-py2.6.egg/pkg_resources.py",
>>> line 2356, in insert_on
>>> "with distribute. Found one at %s" % str(self.location))
>>> ValueError: A 0.7-series setuptools cannot be installed with
>>> distribute. Found one at
>>> /Users/jim/.buildout/eggs/setuptools-0.7.4-py2.6.egg
>>>
>>> Does anyone but me think this is a problem?
>>
>> You can't upgrade from Distribute to Setuptools I think. You must use
>> Distribute 0.7.x (wrapper on Setuptools) or switch manually between
>> Setuptools and Distribute on your system.
>
> distribute 0.7 isn't in pypi. How would you recommend we tell people
> to upgrade to distribute 0.7?

This was a decoy.

I downloaded distutils 0.7.3 from bitbucket and stuck it in my download cache:

bin/buildout
Getting distribution for 'distribute'.
warning: install_lib: 'build/lib' does not exist -- no Python modules to install
Got distribute 0.7.3.

While:
Installing.
Checking for upgrades.

An internal error occured due to a bug in either zc.buildout or in a
recipe being used:
Traceback (most recent call last):

File "/Users/jim/.buildout/eggs/zc.buildout-2.1.0-py2.6.egg/zc/buildout/buildout.py",
line 1923, in main
getattr(buildout, command)(args)
File "/Users/jim/.buildout/eggs/zc.buildout-2.1.0-py2.6.egg/zc/buildout/buildout.py",
line 453, in install
self._maybe_upgrade()
File "/Users/jim/.buildout/eggs/zc.buildout-2.1.0-py2.6.egg/zc/buildout/buildout.py",
line 887, in _maybe_upgrade
allow_hosts = self._allow_hosts
File "/Users/jim/.buildout/eggs/zc.buildout-2.1.0-py2.6.egg/zc/buildout/easy_install.py",
line 782, in install
return installer.install(specs, working_set)
File "/Users/jim/.buildout/eggs/zc.buildout-2.1.0-py2.6.egg/zc/buildout/easy_install.py",
line 627, in install
ws.add(dist)
File "/Users/jim/.buildout/eggs/distribute-0.6.45-py2.6.egg/pkg_resources.py",

line 538, in add
dist.insert_on(self.entries, entry)

File "/Users/jim/.buildout/eggs/distribute-0.6.45-py2.6.egg/pkg_resources.py",
line 2403, in insert_on

"with distribute. Found one at %s" % str(self.location))
ValueError: A 0.7-series setuptools cannot be installed with
distribute. Found one at
/Users/jim/.buildout/eggs/setuptools-0.7.4-py2.6.egg

I got the same result after removing buildout 2.2.0 from my cache. IOW, buildout
can't even upgrade distribute.

I think we're going to need to either:

1) Rewrite the upgrade logic to handle this special case, which will
require another buildout 2.1
release, (and may even be hard) or

2) Tell everyone to download the new bootstrap script and re-bootstrap
their buildouts.

Thoughts?

[Jim Fulton]

Actually, there's a third option:

3) Make a buildout 2.1 release that refuses to upgrade buildout or distribute.

This would allow us to make a 2.2.0 release without breaking
existing buildouts.
Of course, we'd need to leave some time for people to upgrade to it.

Also note that distribute 0,7 is a ticking time bomb for us. When it's
released (which we may
have hastened), it will break existing buildouts.

[Tres Seaver]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 06/25/2013 08:11 AM, C�dric de Saint Martin wrote:

> I'm sorry but... Do we really need the distributions to be updated to
> have "normal users" able to use buildout? I don't want to start a
> flame war, but the release/merge of setuptools/distribute gave many
> users bad headaches.

The newest release of zc.buildout (2.2b1) swtiches away from distribute
to the post-fork setuptools. Developers who already have distribute
installed cannot use this version without first uninstalling distribute
(or equivalent changes such as creating a virtualenv using setuptools
rather than distribute, compileing their own Python, etc.)

> The recent activity on setuptools is really great. The merge was the
> best thing that could have happened. But honestly, our team already
> having lost several days of work because of the 0.7 release that
> didn't work (because of distribute or many different things), when you
> say "please wait 4 months that a new major release of Ubuntu is out
> (because I don't think they'll switch so easily to new setuptools in a
> minor release) so that your users can use buildout", i'm getting mad.
>
> I haven't said anything until now, because I know it's *hard* to make
> this work and be released as expected. But please, take into
> consideration that the vast majority of setuptools/distribute users
> don't give a shit about this (most of them don't even know what it
> is), but they just want something that works without having to loose
> half a day. Ideally, it should be completely transparent for the user.
> In the worst case, he should have to do something trivial.
>
> I still feel that there is no good reason not to release (for real,
> i.e on the cheeseshop and so on) a dummy distribute 0.7 depending on
> setuptools 0.7. Maybe I missed a point? Would it break even more
> things?

I believe that what broke was:

$ /path/to/virtualenv --distribute /tmp/distrib
$ /tmp/distrib/bin/pip install --upgrade distribute

I can't reproduce that problem when updating to distribute 0.7.3 via:

$ /tmp/distrib/bin/pip install \
--find-links=https://bitbucket.org/pypa/setuptools/downloads
--upgrade distribute \

That works for me on both Python 2 and 3.

I don't know whether users for whom that broke could have used
easy_install instead to work around the pip problem. The following works
for me in a fresh distribute-based virtualenv (Python 2 or 3):

$ easy_install \
--find-links=https://bitbucket.org/pypa/setuptools/downloads \
-U distribute

AFAICT, we should just push distribute 0.7.3 to the cheeseshop and be done.

Tres.
- --
===================================================================
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tse...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design" http://palladion.com
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[Jim Fulton]

On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 1:03 PM, Tres Seaver <tse...@palladion.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>

Which, afaict, will break existing buildouts. See me earlier note.

[Tres Seaver]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 06/25/2013 06:54 AM, Sebastien Douche wrote:
> Do you remember the state of Setuptools? No Py3 support, no SVN 1.5+
> support, no bugs support. Do you know the last version of setuptools
> when Elby was the maintainer? 0.6c11, released on 2009-10-20. Code of
> Setuptools 0.7 = mainly the code of distribute.

Incorrect. That was the last version PJE actually pushed to the
cheeseshop. PJE was making releases (installable via the cheeseshop from
his server) right up to the time the fork healed. The newly-merged
setuptools includes fixes and enhancements from *both* brrnches (see the
'MERGE.txt' / 'docs/merge.txt' in a setuptools 0.7 release).

Tres.
- --
===================================================================
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tse...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design" http://palladion.com
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[Tres Seaver]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 06/25/2013 01:10 PM, Jim Fulton wrote:

>>> AFAICT, we should just push distribute 0.7.3 to the cheeseshop and
>>> be done.

> Which, afaict, will break existing buildouts. See me earlier note.

Do you mean that an already-bulit 2.0 / 2.1 distribute-based buildout
cannot upgrade to distribute 0.7.3 without re-bootstrapping?

$ mkdir zcb
$ cd zcb
$ wget http://downloads.buildout.org/2/bootstrap.py
$ /opt/Python-2.7.4-pristine/bin/python bootstrap.py init
# downloads distribute 0.6.45 today
$ bin/buildout
$ echo find-links=https://bitbucket.org/pypa/setuptools/downloads \
>> buildout.cfg
$ bin/buildout

That is problematic. We may need to release a 2.1.x version of
zc.buildout which adds logic to work around that problem, so that people
are ready next week or so when the pip / dsitribute changes get pushed to
PyPI. Either that or we go ahead and release zc.buildout 2.2.0 and tell
everybody to re-bootstrap ASAP.

Tres.
- --
===================================================================
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tse...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design" http://palladion.com
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[Jim Fulton]

On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Tres Seaver <tse...@palladion.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 06/25/2013 01:10 PM, Jim Fulton wrote:
>
>>>> AFAICT, we should just push distribute 0.7.3 to the cheeseshop and
>>>> be done.
>
>> Which, afaict, will break existing buildouts. See me earlier note.
>
> Do you mean that an already-bulit 2.0 / 2.1 distribute-based buildout
> cannot upgrade to distribute 0.7.3 without re-bootstrapping?
>
> $ mkdir zcb
> $ cd zcb
> $ wget http://downloads.buildout.org/2/bootstrap.py
> $ /opt/Python-2.7.4-pristine/bin/python bootstrap.py init
> # downloads distribute 0.6.45 today
> $ bin/buildout
> $ echo find-links=https://bitbucket.org/pypa/setuptools/downloads \
> >> buildout.cfg
> $ bin/buildout

I copied distribute 0.7.3 to my download cache and ran buildout.
The upgrade failed because distribute 0.6 refused to upgrade to 0.7.

Maybe someone else should repeat my experiment.

> That is problematic.

Yup.

> We may need to release a 2.1.x version of
> zc.buildout which adds logic to work around that problem,

I fear this will be no small feat. I personally wouldn't be able to
work on this sooner than this weekend.

Another option would be to push a version of buildout
that refused to upgrade past buildout 2.1 or distribute 0.6.

I could probably do that in the morning.

But even then, people might not get the buildout upgrade soon enough to
save them from distribute breakage.

> so that people
> are ready next week or so when the pip / dsitribute changes get pushed to
> PyPI.

Which might be tonight,

> Either that or we go ahead and release zc.buildout 2.2.0 and tell
> everybody to re-bootstrap ASAP.

I fear this is what we'll be forced to do.