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Tilo Chopin

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Jun 13, 2024, 4:37:09 AM6/13/24
to buenilagmay

No wonder there is such a problem of political diversity in academia, when you have people like you spouting such intolerance. Readers might be interested in this forthcoming article in Behavioural and Brain Science on political diversity as well as my forthcoming commentary on it (second paragraph here: ). It is posts like this, and people like you, that are to blame for this.

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I have a few friends who are Conservative and at times their partisanship bugs me but so does that of others. I think we need unmuddy the conversation before we begin taking steps where we lose friends.

It also therefore belittles and insults those millions of voters, casting them as either idiots or malicious, which shows a very low opinion of vast numbers of this country purely because they hold a different political view than you (and me as it happens).

Another question that now needs to be asked of this academic is how can she be trusted by any of her Tory voting students? How can they know that she will give them equal treatment knowing that she finds them abhorrent? Her employers surely need to look to see if she is fit to lecture.

She is not fit to be in any position that allows her power or influence over others. The idea that somebody as nasty, bigoted and stupid as this lady has control over the education of the young is simply terrifying.

Exactly. Happily I saw yesterday evening on twitter that someone who was due to attend a meeting this week with some of her colleagues was going to raise this issue with them. We can only hope that her close minded attitude is as offensive to them as it appears to have been found by many.

All the stuff about PC is based on a couple of insignificant remarks, but is of course valuable as a version of the idea that the left are traitors to their country, race, common sense etc. And marauding swarthy infidels raping white children is guaranteed to push the Conservative button. They love that stuff.

Do you tell your students that you loathe them on a one by one basis or just stand up and announce your prejudices proudly? How can any Tory voting students trust you? How can your employers be sure that you are fit to lecture with such a close minded attitude? I thought academia was a place where people carried out full and free exchanges of ideas to further understanding not just an echo chamber.

So, is unfriending ok? Maybe it is as wrong as removing Gotham from your Netflix. You are not avoiding debate, but rather a news feed of sorts. In my opinion, your point of keeping the debate open does not apply to Facebook and Twitter. Especially because I have yet to see anyone change their political convictions over something they read on their timeline.

Even aside from just being needlessly rude about your colleagues, you directly contribute to the problem of political diversity in academia. Of course students of a non-liberal persuasion are going to be put off from pursuing careers in academia when they read vitriolic posts like this from a philosophy lecturer about how evil they are.

Note that I am not a conservative but a libertarian. On that basis I supported the Conservative Party despite the policies with which I disagree, given that apart from UKIP all the remaining parties were both socialist and deeply authoritarian (at risk of repeating myself).

As I understand it, the argument of the OP is of the form (a) Conservatives hold actively offensive views; (b) one cannot easily change those views, at least not over facebook. Unfriending seems to quite naturally follow.

The more subtle flaw in the post is the implicit view that conservatives support the policies they support because they are evil and want to hurt the poor, the sick, the disabled and so on. (Hence the comparison with racists, who assign less value to minorities, etc.) A much less arrogant position would at least assume that the author and conservatives want the same things (i.e. no extreme poverty, human health, happiness, prosperity and so on) but disagree about the means to do so.

The rich are fine either way, and often prosper under excessive government of Labour (they can avoid taxes or just leave; they can afford to deal with regulation to start or sustain businesses). The middle class are fine with the evils of socialism, they will manage. It is the poor that need liberal economic policy and small government.

Most of the UK parties, including Labour, propose to continue border controls that refuse virtually all potential immigrants from low-income countries, participating in what has been plausibly described as a system of global apartheid ( -Case-Immigration-Kindle-Single-ebook/dp/B00M4FHQLU) , differing only at the margins of how complete the restrictions are. The Green Party proposes open borders for rich countries, including the UK ( ), but the SNP has only suggested some increase in immigration, not opening the borders.

All of the parties propose to continue to permit animal agriculture. Only the Green Party is even nominally committed to long-term abolition, and it envisages only much more modest immediate reforms ( ).

So should we shun everyone who votes? Presumably not, since this would achieve little and forgo access to many fruitful contributions from and opportunities to cooperate with people who vote. But one can ask the same questions about a narrower group, e.g. conservatives or religious people.

For example, there are members of Giving What We Can, who donate 10% or more of their income to best help the true global poor, who have voted for all major parties. There are people with strong religious views with whom I would disagree strongly. But shunning and successfully excluding everyone with conservative views would result in the deaths of hundreds of innocent children. I think that would be terrible.

More broadly, religious people and conservatives privately give more to charity, and to specifically foreign aid charities, than their complements. Shunning these people, e.g. refusing their donations as charities might refuse donations from known racists, would directly lead to many deaths.

Shunning all commercial and scientific interactions with those who disagree would likewise mean lower standards of living (for shunners and shunned), slower economic growth, slower technological progress, and large humanitarian consequences. Moreover, a shift from cooperative to antagonistic equilibria may provoke backlash. By and large in survey research the public underestimates the degree of ideological distance between itself and areas such as academia, and there is substantial public respect for science as a neutral source of truth which can receive bipartisan support. Perceptions of hostile partisanship and ideological discrimination can further weaken that trust and the security of public support (and finding) for research. Legitimation of ideological discrimination may also empower similar discrimination in business and the military where conservatives of one kind or another are in the majority.

It is possible that an easy victory where shunning by academics leads to the rapid conversion of the opposition would greatly outweigh such costs, rather than continued separated polarization, but that is a complex empirical question of political science, strategy, economics, psychology. Philosophy alone seems inadequate to justify such a specific practice of shunning (while letting off others for endorsing harms of similar magnitude), though it might support a broad deontological shunning.

The role of empirical social science relative to philosophy also comes up with respect to the particulars of selecting small proportional adjustments to the scope of the welfare state and state ownership of industry as grounds for shunning. For example, it is clearly possible to have a public sector and effective tax rates that are too large for aggregate welfare, as well as ones that are too small. Tens of millions starved to death in China and the Soviet Union due to high effective tax rates on farmers in collectivized agriculture, and billions were kept in poverty in China and India under communism and socialism respectively. Conversely, market reforms in those two countries have contributed a large share of the poverty reduction of the last century (with most of the rest going to technological improvements from science and business).

Debates in rich countries are far from the extremes of Maoist China or the license raj in India, but they concern small proportional changes in a background context of social spending and redistribution that makes up a large share of a very high per capita GDP, with social safety nets that are very large. Whether spending is 11,000 pounds per British resident or 12,000 pounds per British resident, state services for British citizens will be extensive. At that margin the economics are not so obviously in favour of more or less aggregate spending with the current mix, although particular sorts can be identified as clearly too high or too low.

Similarly, in the context of government funding, the difference between giving recipients cash or vouchers to use in the market, as with food or automobiles, and providing both the funds and a state-owned enterprise to produce the product, is fairly marginal. In the private charitable context, GiveDirectly is seen as having an advantage in allowing recipients among the global poor flexibility in the use of the redistributed resources. Many developed countries allow recipients of government support to purchase from private providers in industries where Britain does not and vice versa, sometimes with negative results and sometimes with positive ones. I would not want to adopt a principle of shunning that would frequently be put me in conflict with the expertise of economics.

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