using a bottle for the 1st time..
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Louise Clark
Nov 11, 2009, 9:25:47 AM11/11/09
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Hi mums
I’m wanting to express some milk to give my 1 month old son a couple of bottles in the day time. Can anyone please advice me at what age I should start to introduce this and how much milk to express for one feed? I read to express the same amount of milk to the same time I would take to breast feed him.. This sounds like a good start? I know about the nipple confusion but I need to start some time to go back to work!.
Thanks in advance
Hugs
Louise
From: Louise Clark
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:35 PM
To: 'Réka Morvay'
Subject: feeding..
Hi Reka
I have a question.. I want to introduce a bottle of expressed milk to Arthur but how much should I express? I tried this before when he was 2 weeks and he drank 120mls! And wanted my boob for comfort after so I stopped. I don’t want to over feed him. i read to maybe express the amount of time he’s on my boob for a feed.
Thanks
Lou xx
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Réka Morvay
Nov 11, 2009, 11:33:25 AM11/11/09
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Hi Louise,
We generally recommend that you wait until 4-6 weeks before
introducing a bottle to avoid nipple confusion.
How long you need to express depends on a lot of factors; there is no
straight answer.
Most babies Arthur's age consume between 600-800 ml a day. But some
babies do fine on a lot less, and some babies drink a lot more!
Let's assume that Arthur drinks 800 ml a day. If he nurses 12 times a
day, then one feeding would be 60-70 ml. If he nurses 16 times a day,
then one feeding would be 50 ml. If he nurses just 5 times a day (not
recommended at this age), then one feeding would be 160 ml.
Also, note that babies like to SUCK. It's been observed that a baby
will keep on sucking on a bottle as long as there's something coming
out of it, so they will eat a lot more from a bottle than they would
from a breast, because they just want to comfort nurse, not
necessarily eat. There are techniques you can try to get around these
(see the links below).
So you see, it's not a straight answer for how much you need to
express, much less for how long. Some women can express 100 ml in 5
minutes, some women need 20-30 minutes to express 40. That totally
depends on your body type and your milk supply and how easily you can
express.
Generally speaking, try to express in the morning because you have
more milk then. For best results, try pumping before a feed, or right
in between feedings. If you try to express after Arthur nursed, you
will probably not get much.
Because there is such variability in how much babies will take in
during a feeding, I'd say to aim for more rather than less, and try to
express about 200 ml for a single feed, and keep in mind he may just
keep sucking it down, not because he's hungry but because he needs
sucking to settle.
Here is some more info on bottle-feeding the breastfed baby:
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/bottle-feeding.html
http://www.llli.org/FAQ/bottle.html
Good luck!
Réka
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We generally recommend that you wait until 4-6 weeks before
introducing a bottle to avoid nipple confusion.
How long you need to express depends on a lot of factors; there is no
straight answer.
Most babies Arthur's age consume between 600-800 ml a day. But some
babies do fine on a lot less, and some babies drink a lot more!
Let's assume that Arthur drinks 800 ml a day. If he nurses 12 times a
day, then one feeding would be 60-70 ml. If he nurses 16 times a day,
then one feeding would be 50 ml. If he nurses just 5 times a day (not
recommended at this age), then one feeding would be 160 ml.
Also, note that babies like to SUCK. It's been observed that a baby
will keep on sucking on a bottle as long as there's something coming
out of it, so they will eat a lot more from a bottle than they would
from a breast, because they just want to comfort nurse, not
necessarily eat. There are techniques you can try to get around these
(see the links below).
So you see, it's not a straight answer for how much you need to
express, much less for how long. Some women can express 100 ml in 5
minutes, some women need 20-30 minutes to express 40. That totally
depends on your body type and your milk supply and how easily you can
express.
Generally speaking, try to express in the morning because you have
more milk then. For best results, try pumping before a feed, or right
in between feedings. If you try to express after Arthur nursed, you
will probably not get much.
Because there is such variability in how much babies will take in
during a feeding, I'd say to aim for more rather than less, and try to
express about 200 ml for a single feed, and keep in mind he may just
keep sucking it down, not because he's hungry but because he needs
sucking to settle.
Here is some more info on bottle-feeding the breastfed baby:
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/bottle-feeding.html
http://www.llli.org/FAQ/bottle.html
Good luck!
Réka
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Louise Clark
Nov 11, 2009, 2:46:37 PM11/11/09
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Thanks Reka, this is great info!
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julia....@ch.pwc.com
Nov 11, 2009, 3:04:14 PM11/11/09
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Talking about introducing a bottle....does anyone have any ideas how to get a baby to accept one? We've been trying to get Philip to accept the bottle for about three weeks now and he refuses to drink from it. I have the feeling he doesn't get it...he plays around with it without sucking, some milk still comes out and it's as if he doesn't realise why, so he doesn't swollow but chokes on it, then gets upset and starts crying. I'm in no rush so I'll just keep trying, but if anyone has a suggestion on what might work I'd be grateful!
Thanks
Julia
"Louise Clark" <Louise...@misgl.com>
11.11.2009 20:48
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julia....@ch.pwc.com
Nov 12, 2009, 8:24:13 AM11/12/09
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Réka Morvay
Nov 12, 2009, 11:33:19 AM11/12/09
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Hi Julia,
Most of what I read about getting a baby that is refusing the bottle
to accept it talk about mainly 3 things:
1. A window of opportunity around 4-6 weeks.
2. Having someone other than the mother offer them.
3. Being patient and persistent, don't try to force the baby, but try
offering the bottle another day.
Here are some further links with information and advice from moms:
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/2/T025000.asp
http://llli.org/NB/NBSeptOct94p152.html
http://www.storknet.com/cubbies/breast/AS-botspacifiers.htm (look near
the bottom for specific suggestions)
Good luck!
Réka
Most of what I read about getting a baby that is refusing the bottle
to accept it talk about mainly 3 things:
1. A window of opportunity around 4-6 weeks.
2. Having someone other than the mother offer them.
3. Being patient and persistent, don't try to force the baby, but try
offering the bottle another day.
Here are some further links with information and advice from moms:
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/2/T025000.asp
http://llli.org/NB/NBSeptOct94p152.html
http://www.storknet.com/cubbies/breast/AS-botspacifiers.htm (look near
the bottom for specific suggestions)
Good luck!
Réka
Melanie Smith
Nov 13, 2009, 3:35:18 AM11/13/09
to budape...@googlegroups.com
Hi everyone
I have been giving expressed milk most days (usually evenings when my milk supply is lower) in a bottle to my 5 week old baby Ferdi and so far he has been quite keen. However, my doctor advised me only to top up after he had had as much breast milk as he needed. Therefore he only takes about 40mls. My husband generally gives it to him, but if I do he just looks at me a bit strangely and reluctantly accepts it! I also tried giving him cool boiled water in between feeds if he seemed hungry and often he refused it, spat it out and looked disgusted by the taste! But just now he took 20mls of water very happily from the bottle so maybe the 4-6 week window is the one to take advantage of....
best wishes
Melanie
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I have been giving expressed milk most days (usually evenings when my milk supply is lower) in a bottle to my 5 week old baby Ferdi and so far he has been quite keen. However, my doctor advised me only to top up after he had had as much breast milk as he needed. Therefore he only takes about 40mls. My husband generally gives it to him, but if I do he just looks at me a bit strangely and reluctantly accepts it! I also tried giving him cool boiled water in between feeds if he seemed hungry and often he refused it, spat it out and looked disgusted by the taste! But just now he took 20mls of water very happily from the bottle so maybe the 4-6 week window is the one to take advantage of....
best wishes
Melanie
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Réka Morvay
Nov 13, 2009, 4:01:17 AM11/13/09
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Hi Melanie,
Good to hear from you! :)
Your note triggered a few thoughts, which may be important for
first-time moms to understand.
Milk supply is often lower in the evening than during the day. This is
physiological and normal, and actually, milk in the evening tends to
be MUCH higher in fat, so despite the smaller amount, it is much
higher in calories.
The timing of this lowered supply also happens to coincide with a
period when most babies (aged between 2 weeks and 3 months) are quite
fussy, and difficult to settle. A lot of moms interpret this fussy
period, which usually occurs in the few hours before a baby settles
for the night, as either that they don't have enough milk, or that
their baby is colicky.
Neither is true, in most cases.
Babies seem to be built this way, in that they seem to want a lot of
attention and cuddling and physical contact during those hours, and
this is true for all babies no matter how they are fed.
Breastfed babies are often quite content during this fussy period in
the evenings to just hang out on the breast until they fall asleep.
Often, the fact that the milk is LESS at this time is a blessing in
disguise. This way, the baby can comfort nurse for hours without
drinking so much that it will make him uncomfortable. Moms who have an
OVERsupply (too much milk) often suffer from an inability to use
comfort nursing to settle their babies during this fussy period,
because their babies cry at the breast because the milk just keeps
pouring into their mouths when all they want to do is suckle for
comfort.
The fact that milk is less in the evening is also a very sensitive
indicator of your supply in general. Often, it is during these evening
fussy periods that you first notice if your supply is not as much as
your baby would like.
Babies' ONLY method of increasing your supply is to nurse more often.
This is their signal to the breast to make more milk. If they are not
allowed to nurse more often during growth spurts or supply drops (due
to your menstrual period or medication), then your body is not getting
the message that more milk is needed. Whenever you notice that your
supply is not satisfying your baby, the answer is to nurse the baby
MORE OFTEN to signal the body to make more milk. Generally speaking,
usually only a day or two is needed for your body to adjust your
supply to baby's new demand levels.
Hope this helps,
Réka
Good to hear from you! :)
Your note triggered a few thoughts, which may be important for
first-time moms to understand.
Milk supply is often lower in the evening than during the day. This is
physiological and normal, and actually, milk in the evening tends to
be MUCH higher in fat, so despite the smaller amount, it is much
higher in calories.
The timing of this lowered supply also happens to coincide with a
period when most babies (aged between 2 weeks and 3 months) are quite
fussy, and difficult to settle. A lot of moms interpret this fussy
period, which usually occurs in the few hours before a baby settles
for the night, as either that they don't have enough milk, or that
their baby is colicky.
Neither is true, in most cases.
Babies seem to be built this way, in that they seem to want a lot of
attention and cuddling and physical contact during those hours, and
this is true for all babies no matter how they are fed.
Breastfed babies are often quite content during this fussy period in
the evenings to just hang out on the breast until they fall asleep.
Often, the fact that the milk is LESS at this time is a blessing in
disguise. This way, the baby can comfort nurse for hours without
drinking so much that it will make him uncomfortable. Moms who have an
OVERsupply (too much milk) often suffer from an inability to use
comfort nursing to settle their babies during this fussy period,
because their babies cry at the breast because the milk just keeps
pouring into their mouths when all they want to do is suckle for
comfort.
The fact that milk is less in the evening is also a very sensitive
indicator of your supply in general. Often, it is during these evening
fussy periods that you first notice if your supply is not as much as
your baby would like.
Babies' ONLY method of increasing your supply is to nurse more often.
This is their signal to the breast to make more milk. If they are not
allowed to nurse more often during growth spurts or supply drops (due
to your menstrual period or medication), then your body is not getting
the message that more milk is needed. Whenever you notice that your
supply is not satisfying your baby, the answer is to nurse the baby
MORE OFTEN to signal the body to make more milk. Generally speaking,
usually only a day or two is needed for your body to adjust your
supply to baby's new demand levels.
Hope this helps,
Réka
julia....@ch.pwc.com
Nov 13, 2009, 4:58:49 AM11/13/09
to budapestmoms
Melanie Smith
Nov 13, 2009, 10:16:49 AM11/13/09
to budape...@googlegroups.com
Thanks Réka
That's really interesting and helpful. I am a second time Mum but I am SO confused by all the conflicting information out there. I have to be honest, I started dabbling with Gina Ford (anyone else??) as we had such bad sleep problems with our first having followed our instincts. He still gets up any time between 4.30 and 6am at the age of three and a half! But Gina says you should never comfort nurse, which seems very harsh for a little baby, and you are on such a tight schedule, which I know you said is not good for such a small baby. Of course, the schedule falls by the wayside all the time! My (Hungarian) mother-in-law also told me today that I should just leave Ferdi to cry in his cot, even if there are four of us doing nothing very important all around him! Poor thing.
So, I am going to come to the breastfeeding session next week if I can, as it sounds very useful. Most of the time, we don't really need the bottle but I wanted to introduce it early so that I don't have the problem with my first son where he wouldn't touch a bottle as I introduced it so late. It all feels like trial and error most of the time, doesn't it??
Have a good weekend!
best wishes
Melanie
> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 10:01:17 +0100
> Subject: Re: [budapestmoms] RE: using a bottle for the 1st time..
> From: rekam...@gmail.com
> To: budape...@googlegroups.com
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andrea kidd
Nov 15, 2009, 3:14:42 AM11/15/09
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hi melanie ,ive just read your email to reka and as i attend rekas mom and baby group wed id love to discuss this situation with you as i also express and have a six week old daughter and a 4 year old son and i love gina ford as i applied her way with my son at about 6=8 weeks and he still sleeps from 8,9 pm till 7,8 am.
im gonna try and make this wed see ya there andrea
From: melanies...@hotmail.com
To: budape...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [budapestmoms] RE: using a bottle for the 1st time..
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 08:35:18 +0000
im gonna try and make this wed see ya there andrea
From: melanies...@hotmail.com
To: budape...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [budapestmoms] RE: using a bottle for the 1st time..
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 08:35:18 +0000
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Réka Morvay
Nov 15, 2009, 4:21:44 AM11/15/09
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Hi guys!
This Wednesday is Breastfeeding class during regular mommy-baby group.
Please be aware that this class has a fee! Moms who just want to hang
out and chat (as usual) are free to come, of course, but it may be
less comfortable than usual, because you'll be in the hall with the
coffee table and chairs while the class is going on.
Sorry for the inconvenience! Regular mommy-baby group will resume
shortly, but we couldn't find a better time to hold these classes.
Thanks for your understanding!
Réka
This Wednesday is Breastfeeding class during regular mommy-baby group.
Please be aware that this class has a fee! Moms who just want to hang
out and chat (as usual) are free to come, of course, but it may be
less comfortable than usual, because you'll be in the hall with the
coffee table and chairs while the class is going on.
Sorry for the inconvenience! Regular mommy-baby group will resume
shortly, but we couldn't find a better time to hold these classes.
Thanks for your understanding!
Réka
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