Go

[Jacob Munson]

Google decided that the world needed a new programming language, so they created Go.  One interesting thing I saw is that it has good support for multi-core processors.

http://golang.org/

=====================
Jake Munson
Kuna, ID, USA
http://www.techfeed.net/blog/
http://www.cfquickdocs.com/
http://cfformprotect.riaforge.org/

[Jim McKeeth]

I was looking at Go.  It is interesting that yet again Google is targeting native compiled utilities instead of going with "virualized" like .NET / Java or a scripting language.  A lot of people have been claiming that we are headed away from native code, but we seem to be swinging back around.

-Jim McKeeth
j...@mckeeth.org
www.Delphi.org - The Podcast at Delphi.org
www.McKeeth.org - Personal home page

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[Jacob Munson]

Also, you can't compile code on Windows.  I'm not sure if they've got plans to port it to Windows down the road, but I can't imagine this will ever gain any traction if it doesn't run on Windows.

[Justin Kay]

Isn't this for writing server applications?  I doubt that Google uses windows servers.

Justin B. Kay

Director of IT

Northwest Real Estate Capital Corp.

jk...@nwrecc.org

208 947-7040

Housing with Pride, Life with Dignity

[Chris Brandsma]

Here was an interesting group post I saw yesterday that was related:
http://groups.google.com/group/unladen-swallow/browse_thread/thread/4edbc406f544643e?pli=1

Google also has a project called Unladen Swallow, that is a Python compiler.  They wanted that to speed up Python.

Anyway, long story short, it looks like Google is recommending its employees stop using Python because of scalability issues (and Google stuff HAS to scale).

But, apparently Java is just fine for scalability.  And Go is another iteration on that thought.

Now, separate question on why go native verses virtual?  I don't know for sure, but it sure seems like there is more involved with creating a virtual language (.net and java) verses a native one.  You don't just have to map apis, but create the entire ecosystem of libraries.  I could be wrong on that one.

--------------------------------
Christopher Brandsma
http://www.ChrisBrandsma.com
http://www.ElegantCode.com

[Aaron Backer]

[snarky/useless comment]

I don't know why they didn't just extend bf.net ....

[/snarkiness]

[Mike Moore]

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 8:00 AM, Jacob Munson <yaco...@gmail.com> wrote:

Also, you can't compile code on Windows.  I'm not sure if they've got plans to port it to Windows down the road, but I can't imagine this will ever gain any traction if it doesn't run on Windows.

If you are looking for quick, agile languages that compile on the various platforms, you should really look at factor.

http://factorcode.org/

[Richard Hundhausen]

Off topic, but why aren’t these emails coming from bs...@googlegroups.com? Did we go off track somewhere/somehow?

 

Normally my rules do a good job of putting these threads into its own folder.

--

[Tony Rasa]

and as an unrelated and completely pointless sidebar:  There is already another language called Go! and the author thinks that Google should change their name:
http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=9

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Chris Brandsma <chris.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Jim McKeeth]

Not to mention the 2500 year old board game from China

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_%28game%29

We have having a namespace collision of epic proportions! 

-Jim McKeeth
j...@mckeeth.org
www.Delphi.org - The Podcast at Delphi.org
www.McKeeth.org - Personal home page

[Steve Reece]

And that one corner on the Monopoly board…

 

Steve Reece

 

Electronic Privacy Notice: This e-mail and any attachments contain information that is, or may be, covered by electronic communications privacy laws, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner. Instead, please reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and then immediately delete it. Thank you.

 

From: Jim McKeeth [mailto:j...@mckeeth.org]
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:32 PM
To: bs...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [BSDG] Go

 

Not to mention the 2500 year old board game from China

[Matthew K]

FYI, This is pretty cool. Novell Brings Linux to Microsoft's Visual Studio http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-11-11-008-35-NW-NV Sniped a portion of the article below "Since its first development releases in 2004, Novell's Mono effort has aimed to bring Microsoft's .NET to Linux. Now Novell is turning the tables and bringing Linux to .NET developers using Microsoft Visual Studio IDE (define). Mono Tools for Visual Studio is an add-in module for Microsoft's popular IDE, enabling developers to build, port and deploy their .NET application on Linux. The new Mono Tools add-in goes beyond what Novell has previously offered with its MonoDevelop IDE and provides a bundled mechanism for Microsoft developers to package up their .NET application into Linux software appliances." Matt

[Chris Brandsma]

Site note:

They also brought C# to the IPhone with MonoTouch.

Netdug (next week Thursday), the topic will be MonoTouch.

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[Jim McKeeth]

You can do MonoTouch development for the iPhone in visual studio.  It is just the deployment and testing that have to be done via the Mac.  Debugging is out though.

-Jim McKeeth
j...@mckeeth.org
www.Delphi.org - The Podcast at Delphi.org
www.McKeeth.org - Personal home page

[Richard Hundhausen]

I say we reinstitute an old tradition, and I don’t mean primae noctis.

 

My friend Adam Cogan (Microsoft Regional Director from Sydney) will be in town on Monday so we should gather and talk about tech stuff, including what went on at PDC. Maybe we can get Mr. Starr there and hear it in stereo.

 

Jimmy’s at noon? 11? What do you say?

 

-Rich

Richard Hundhausen
Microsoft Regional Director
Visual Studio Team System MVP
blog.hundhausen.com
Boise, Idaho

[Chris Brandsma]

Noon.  I should be able to make it.

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[Richard Hundhausen]

Monday at noon then.

 

… and for those who are thinking “Jimmy’s ?” …

 

Oriental Express

110 N 11th St

Boise, ID 83702-5602

(208) 345-8868

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&where1=110%20N%2011th%20St%2C%20Boise%2C%20ID%2083702-5602&encType=1

 

-Rich

Richard Hundhausen
Microsoft Regional Director
Visual Studio Team System MVP
blog.hundhausen.com
Boise, Idaho

From: Chris Brandsma [mailto:chris.b...@gmail.com]

Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 2:00 PM
To: bs...@googlegroups.com

[Andrew Hanson]

I'm downtown today, I'll look for you guys at noon.

-Andrew

[Andrew Hanson]

Rich, 

Thanks for getting us together for lunch it was fun.  I think the consensus is that you and Adam need to move to Subversion or at least have your work cut out trying to get us all to move to TFS.

-Andrew

On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Richard Hundhausen <del...@delphi.org> wrote:

[Chris Brandsma]

I'm still pissed I couldn't make it.  I was in a meeting until noon.  :(

[Steve Reece]

Well, Chris.  We all waited for you until it was too late to eat and we had to get back to work.  Then we left hungry.

 

 

Steve Reece

 

Electronic Privacy Notice: This e-mail and any attachments contain information that is, or may be, covered by electronic communications privacy laws, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner. Instead, please reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and then immediately delete it. Thank you.

 

[Richard Hundhausen]

I don’t think you guys are the target audience for TFS anyway. Microsoft is trying to target the professional developer …

 

;-)

[Doug Reece]

Don't you mean "the assimilated developer"?

;-)

[Richard Hundhausen]

Touché

 

From: Doug Reece [mailto:grou...@rtechnics.com]

Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 5:32 PM
To: bs...@googlegroups.com

[Doug Reece]

Hey Rich,

I just learned that Subversion doesn't retain the date/time stamps of files, which for me, is at best an irritant and, at worse, could be somewhat problematic. So there, you have a selling point for TFS vs. SVN.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bsdg?hl=en.

[Dave Herron]

I believe there is a patch to retain the original time date for a file checked into SVN.

[Tony Rasa]

Three things that kept us from using TFS where I work - these things were improved greatly in 2008, but not enough to make the problems go away.  Fix these things, and we'll be all over TFS - right now we use SVN for source control and that's great, but everything else is a mash of slightly compatible software - cc.net, FogBugz, and so on.  And we get licenses with our microsoft partnership level, so cost isn't a factor here at all.  

1.  Offsite developers.  And I don't mean somebody trying to work on a plane, or working for a night in a hotel room - I mean telecommuters, people who spend the majority of their time without a solid ethernet connection to the TF server.  This continues to be flat out painful.   TFS is so chatty over the network, I think it expects you to have 100Mbs quality connection when more often than not, its VPN over business-class DSL.  We have this problem with clients who use TFS internally and want us to do development for them from Boise - it wastes so much time that we now refuse to do it, and explain to the customer how we just saved them hours of dev time sitting around waiting for things to happen.

2.  Supporting optimistic locking as a default, giving it first class status with pessimistic locking.  (Most of the problems I had with this went away in TFS 2008, but there are still horror stories of TFS wiping out your (not exclusively locked) changes with the old version from TFS.)  And I don't think that the non-exclusive locks in TFS supports this, because...

3.  Understand that Visual Studio is not the only piece of software involved with a project.  We use a bunch of tools here, not all of them support or use source control integration.  Editing a file in gvim is a pretty good way to have TFS wipe your changes out, since TFS requires to be told about all file modifications.  If you didn't inform the server, it didn't happen.  SVN deals with this by cluttering everything with .svn directories, which have their own problems...   While I'm mentioning it - not all the files involved with a project are included into a csproj or sln file either.  Art assets, database scripts, documentation, etc.  

Those might not be a big deal for anybody else (2 + 3 i know are contentious, and 1 is a problem for our work environment) but they keep us out of the target market for TFS.  

[Chris Brandsma]

OK, #3 would be a killer for me as well.

Main problem in my current shop with TFS (a former TFS shop at that), we spend way too much time having to fiddle with TFS.  Don't ask me what they were doing, I didn't get involved.  Since moving to SVN and Team City (and Rake) things have stayed pretty darn stable.

[Richard Hundhausen]

Well, I guess you’ll be all over TFS now J (see below)

 

From: Tony Rasa [mailto:tr...@meancat.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 9:43 AM
To: bs...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [BSDG] Geek lunch on Monday?

 

Three things that kept us from using TFS where I work - these things were improved greatly in 2008, but not enough to make the problems go away.  Fix these things, and we'll be all over TFS - right now we use SVN for source control and that's great, but everything else is a mash of slightly compatible software - cc.net, FogBugz, and so on.  And we get licenses with our microsoft partnership level, so cost isn't a factor here at all.  

1.  Offsite developers.  And I don't mean somebody trying to work on a plane, or working for a night in a hotel room - I mean telecommuters, people who spend the majority of their time without a solid ethernet connection to the TF server.  This continues to be flat out painful.   TFS is so chatty over the network, I think it expects you to have 100Mbs quality connection when more often than not, its VPN over business-class DSL.  We have this problem with clients who use TFS internally and want us to do development for them from Boise - it wastes so much time that we now refuse to do it, and explain to the customer how we just saved them hours of dev time sitting around waiting for things to happen. Ditch VPN and go with straight HTTP/HTTP access to get an uptick in performance. Consider TFS Proxy for offsite teams and Personal Accelerator for offsite developers. Worst case, just work offline. Visual Studio 2008 knows how to go offline and back online later, determining which files have pending changes.

2.  Supporting optimistic locking as a default, giving it first class status with pessimistic locking.  (Most of the problems I had with this went away in TFS 2008, but there are still horror stories of TFS wiping out your (not exclusively locked) changes with the old version from TFS.)  And I don't think that the non-exclusive locks in TFS supports this, because... Not sure what you mean by optimistic vs. pessimistic locking. In TFS the default is no locking (copy > modify > merge), so you merge your changes with any conflicts that are detected – no locks are applied by default with this. You can turn off this shared approach at the team project level and then it’s “lock on check-out” (pessimistic), or each individual user can configure their Visual Studio to prompt for exclusive check-out on edit, etc. I don’t recommend this because the blocking you may force on your team outweighs any chance of data loss, which I haven’t heard about in 2008.

3.  Understand that Visual Studio is not the only piece of software involved with a project.  We use a bunch of tools here, not all of them support or use source control integration.  Editing a file in gvim is a pretty good way to have TFS wipe your changes out, since TFS requires to be told about all file modifications.  If you didn't inform the server, it didn't happen.  SVN deals with this by cluttering everything with .svn directories, which have their own problems...   While I'm mentioning it - not all the files involved with a project are included into a csproj or sln file either.  Art assets, database scripts, documentation, etc. Use the MSSCCI Provider to connect other IDEs and environments to Team Foundation Server. Use tf.exe and/or Windows shell integration (Microsoft’s “Tortoise”) found in the Team Foundation Power Tools to give TFS get/check-out/check-in/etc. capability to all apps who leverage the shell to open/save files.

[Scott Nichols]

My shop has been using TFS 2008 since beta 1 and for source control I can’t say we have had that many problems, we have had a much different experience then what Tony outlined.

 

#1)  We have had excellent performance over the WAN (and home connections) with TFS.  Our teams exist in Boise, Cleveland, Denver, and remote developers working out of their homes and the performance has been exceptional.  The Cleveland group primarily has been doing FLEX and Java development connection to TFS (in the Boise office) thru Teamprise and are seeing faster check-in and check-out speeds then their local CVS based source control system.   The TFS databases are sitting on a fast RAID 10 disk, not sure if that is one reason why we are seeing good IO numbers.     

 

#2) TFS 2008 appears to be much better than 2005. We have experienced a few problems with source control but not many.  Renaming and deleting files can be problematic if you do not do things in the correct order.   The Branching story in TFS 2008 is not as functional as Subversion although it seems MS has addressed the branching issues with TFS 2010.         

 

#3) Our teams work with various technologies not just .Net and Visual Studio.    For non Visual Studio files we just use the TFS Team Explorer shell, Teamprise, or even the Eclipse (Teamprise plug-in) to manage the files.  Our FELX, Java, and Oracle developers have not reported any major difficulties.

 

My biggest grip with TFS as Toni mentioned is the mash-up of administration, ticket management, and dashboard tools, very disjointed and lacking some key features, I have been very disappointed with these aspects of the tool.   Although, it looks like there are some major improvements with TFS 2010 with the management tools.  I have loaded up the TFS 2010 beta on a new server but have not had the time to dive into it yet.   In another month or so I should know more.     

 

       Scott Nichols

[Doug Reece]

Is there a meeting/agenda for this month?

[Chris Brandsma]

There is a meeting this week.  At this point the topic will remain a mystery topic. 

Also, unless someone screens otherwise, I'm thinking of moving the meeting up to 6:00 or 6:30 pm. 

On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Doug Reece <grou...@rtechnics.com> wrote:

Is there a meeting/agenda for this month?

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[Steve Reece]

I vote for keeping it at 7:00.

 

Steve Reece

 

Electronic Privacy Notice: This e-mail and any attachments contain information that is, or may be, covered by electronic communications privacy laws, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner. Instead, please reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and then immediately delete it. Thank you.

 

From: Chris Brandsma [mailto:chris.b...@gmail.com]

Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 1:47 PM
To: bs...@googlegroups.com

[Edwin R. Paay]

Some of us work until 6:00 pm or after …

 

Ed.

 

 

From: Chris Brandsma [mailto:chris.b...@gmail.com]

Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 1:47 PM
To: bs...@googlegroups.com

[Matthew K]

Whatever the time is, there is only two days left until the meeting. It would be nice to know what time it is going to be at so I can work around dinner time with the family.

Matt

--- On Tue, 12/1/09, Edwin R. Paay <ed...@paay.us> wrote:

[Chris Brandsma]

OK, we will keep it at 7 pm.

Mystary topic revealed:  David Starr is going to talk about what happened at PDC, and how off Visual Studio 2010 a bit.

[Aaron Backer]

I like 6 or 6:30.  But then I'm an old fogey with kids and try to get to bed on time.

Boooooring.  :)

[Aaron Backer]

You know, i really should read all the topics in a thread before responding...

7pm it is.

Can we heckle our (not) mysterious guest?

[Richard Hundhausen]

Anybody have experience with this? I have an opportunity …

 

As you have always been a great source of information, I wanted to tap you once again for some direction.  We are kicking off an embedded project and have selected CE 6.0 as our OS.  Presently, we are up and running on the CE 6.0 R3 tools and have the emulator running.

Our primary need is in way of writing or adapting a board support package (BSP) for the board we are developing in-house.  This part of the effort is about 45-60 day out.  Our team has some familiarity with BSP from other vendors, but are looking for either 1) training related to BSP adaptation, or 2) a consultant to assist us with the process of bringing the board up under CE.  Any help, redirection, or suggestions regarding either of these will be most appreciated.

Reply back to me directly if you’re interested.

 

-Rich