Headstay Deck Fitting

51 views
Skip to first unread message

Scott Rosenthal

unread,
Jun 13, 2022, 5:57:36 PM6/13/22
to bristo...@googlegroups.com

Hi,

 

I just aborted a trip to Bermuda when the headstay fitting on the deck failed. I can’t swear to it, but I think my stainless steel deck fitting and anchor roller plate are original equipment. If you have the same setup as mine, please check it for cracks. The …611 photo shows where it failed. There seems to be a few issues going on:

1.       The crack started a while ago based on the dark corrosion in the break.

2.       My headstay didn’t have a toggle, which probably contributed to flexing the tang fore and aft.

3.       I don’t understand this, but the 5/8” pin had “welded” itself into the tang. I had to use a hammer to knock it out. Plus, there’s a raised edge along the hole in the tang.

4.       Looking in Skene’s, it seems that this tang is undersized. On page 188 is a table listing various chain plate sizes. I consider this tang a chain plate. When I get this rewelded, I’m going to beef-up the dimensions to match a standard 5/8” pin chain plate.

 

Regards,

 

Scott

1980 B40 Willow #110

 

 

Scott Rosenthal
sc...@sltf.com

 

Scott_20220611__web.jpg
Scott_20220613__web.jpg

Dan Stadtlander

unread,
Jun 14, 2022, 2:08:01 AM6/14/22
to bristo...@googlegroups.com
Scott,
That’s scary. Good thing you didn’t loose the rig. My fitting on my 39 is completely different. I agree Looking at the break this failure looks like it was in process a long time. I assume you will be sistering a beefer replacement on top? You probably want to use 316 not 304 which this likely looks like. Also polishing the replacement to a mirror finish and avoiding excess welding and the heat effected zone will help. Our boats are getting up there in age and just like us are getting tired and fatigued. Thank you for the heads up!
Dan
“Mirari”
 

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 13, 2022, at 6:27 PM, Scott Rosenthal <sc...@sltf.com> wrote:


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bristol39-40" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bristol39-40...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bristol39-40/007401d87f70%243fbfd1b0%24bf3f7510%24%40sltf.com.
Scott_20220611__web.jpgScott_20220613__web.jpg

Scott Rosenthal

unread,
Jun 14, 2022, 7:46:57 AM6/14/22
to bristo...@googlegroups.com

Dan,

 

Good points—thank you! A lifetime warranty now easily switches from the product to the user. I do have a question that you may be able to answer: can one weld 316 to 304? I have many different skills, but welding isn’t one of them.


Regards,


Scott

image001.jpg
image002.jpg

Dan Stadtlander

unread,
Jun 14, 2022, 8:04:56 AM6/14/22
to bristo...@googlegroups.com
Scott,
Absolutely! I’m not sure on what rod would be used, maybe 321, it’s been awhile since I welded. Sounds like a google search is in order!  The trick is to keep the heat effected zone to a minimum. I prefer strong attachment straps to be weld free but for fittings like ours that’s difficult.
Dan


Sent from my iPad

On Jun 14, 2022, at 7:45 AM, Scott Rosenthal <sc...@sltf.com> wrote:



image001.jpgimage002.jpg

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bristol39-40" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bristol39-40...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bristol39-40/7CE87289-AE55-4C88-9B25-1AF8AEDFFE70%40yahoo.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bristol39-40" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bristol39-40...@googlegroups.com.

Scott Rosenthal

unread,
Jun 14, 2022, 8:45:28 AM6/14/22
to bristo...@googlegroups.com

Got it—thanks!

image001.jpg
image002.jpg

James Lamb

unread,
Jun 14, 2022, 8:53:32 AM6/14/22
to bristo...@googlegroups.com
Scott and Don, 

I replaced all four chainplates and the stern and stem standing rigging plates about 8 years ago.  Photos are attached.  I suggest a very close investigation of the condition before you weld anything.  The heat of welding may affect hidden damage.  

You can see some significant corrosion of my old bolts, and a less, but some, corrosion of the chainplates.  Encapsulated stainless can corrode which may explain the condition of the bolts in particular.  

My stem was not welded to the anchor roller plate, but you can still see that some of the plates were not flat after about 50 years, so there has been deformation of the metal.  My guess is that the design of Scott’s stem created a hard spot for the stem to flex and finally to break.  

You may find corroded bolts or other damaged plates that could encourage you to replace the plates and bolts rather than repair the failed stem. 

Just a suggestion.  I am sorry this affected you trip!

Jim Lamb
Ondine 
Bristol 39/40 #25 (1968)




<image001.jpg><image002.jpg>
-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bristol39-40" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bristol39-40...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bristol39-40/7CE87289-AE55-4C88-9B25-1AF8AEDFFE70%40yahoo.com.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bristol39-40" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bristol39-40...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bristol39-40/009f01d87fe4%245feeb4a0%241fcc1de0%24%40sltf.com.
-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bristol39-40" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bristol39-40...@googlegroups.com.

Matthew Thomson

unread,
Jun 14, 2022, 10:19:04 AM6/14/22
to bristo...@googlegroups.com
As someone who works in shipbuilding, and has some training in metal fabrication techniques, This is an area I would use a professional welder. It’s not just a matter of base and filler metal, but weld process, shield gas selection, flow rates, amps & volts, bevels, etc…
It looks like you could cut the old chain plate out of the stem fitting, clean-prep-inspect the head plate, manufacture a whole new strap, bend and drill to fit the bow, then target it all, maybe do a couple of tack welds installed and remove to complete full penetration welds all the way around.

Scott Rosenthal

unread,
Jun 14, 2022, 2:57:00 PM6/14/22
to bristo...@googlegroups.com

Thank you, everyone. I just got it off the boat and I really don’t like the idea of the headstay chain plate welded to the anchor roller. As you hinted at Matt, getting the angles right seems like too much work, too. I’m thinking about having a slot in the anchor roller that the chain plate goes through and reinforcing the anchor roller. Also, just to be clear, I don’t know how to weld, so yes, it’ll be done by the professional I’ve used before. And Jim, the bolts that came out from the chain plate and the anchor roller were all in good shape—which was good—and I’ll be ordering new ones from McMaster-Carr.

image001.jpg
image002.jpg
image003.jpg

Jim Lamb

unread,
Jun 14, 2022, 2:58:54 PM6/14/22
to bristo...@googlegroups.com
Sounds like a good plan!

Jim 


On Jun 14, 2022, at 2:57 PM, Scott Rosenthal <sc...@sltf.com> wrote:



Thank you, everyone. I just got it off the boat and I really don’t like the idea of the headstay chain plate welded to the anchor roller. As you hinted at Matt, getting the angles right seems like too much work, too. I’m thinking about having a slot in the anchor roller that the chain plate goes through and reinforcing the anchor roller. Also, just to be clear, I don’t know how to weld, so yes, it’ll be done by the professional I’ve used before. And Jim, the bolts that came out from the chain plate and the anchor roller were all in good shape—which was good—and I’ll be ordering new ones from McMaster-Carr.

 

From: 'Matthew Thomson' via Bristol39-40 [mailto:bristo...@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2022 10:19 AM
To: bristo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Bristol39-40] Headstay Deck Fitting

 

As someone who works in shipbuilding, and has some training in metal fabrication techniques, This is an area I would use a professional welder. It’s not just a matter of base and filler metal, but weld process, shield gas selection, flow rates, amps & volts, bevels, etc…

It looks like you could cut the old chain plate out of the stem fitting, clean-prep-inspect the head plate, manufacture a whole new strap, bend and drill to fit the bow, then target it all, maybe do a couple of tack welds installed and remove to complete full penetration welds all the way around.

 

VR Matt


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Tuesday, June 14, 2022, 8:53 AM, James Lamb <jim....@gmail.com> wrote:

Scott and Don, 

 

I replaced all four chainplates and the stern and stem standing rigging plates about 8 years ago.  Photos are attached.  I suggest a very close investigation of the condition before you weld anything.  The heat of welding may affect hidden damage.  

 

You can see some significant corrosion of my old bolts, and a less, but some, corrosion of the chainplates.  Encapsulated stainless can corrode which may explain the condition of the bolts in particular.  

 

My stem was not welded to the anchor roller plate, but you can still see that some of the plates were not flat after about 50 years, so there has been deformation of the metal.  My guess is that the design of Scott’s stem created a hard spot for the stem to flex and finally to break.  

 

You may find corroded bolts or other damaged plates that could encourage you to replace the plates and bolts rather than repair the failed stem. 

 

Just a suggestion.  I am sorry this affected you trip!

 

Jim Lamb

Ondine 

Bristol 39/40 #25 (1968)

 

 

image001.jpgimage002.jpgimage003.jpg

Matthew Thomson

unread,
Jun 14, 2022, 4:28:34 PM6/14/22
to bristo...@googlegroups.com
Sounds good to me too.

Jack

unread,
Feb 1, 2023, 10:15:22 PM2/1/23
to Bristol39-40
Scott, 
Can you complete this story with an update on how you addressed this repair? That is one scary thing to have happen offshore. Was there a toggle on the forestay tang to reduce stress on that tang that broke? 
On our B40 "cutter"/yawl we have a headstay on the bow platform and an inner forestay just behind the stem. We replaced all of the chainplates (only 13 on this boat) and they generally looked OK with some pitting. They were original to 1982. But I am always worried about the lifespan of the headstay tang integral to the bow platform. It is reassuring to me and my rigger that the inner forestay would help in the case of a headstay failure. 
It would be great if you could tell us what you did for the repair, what stainless you used and provide pictures. 
Jack Maull,  Julia

Scott Rosenthal

unread,
Feb 2, 2023, 8:17:00 AM2/2/23
to bristo...@googlegroups.com

Here’s a section of the write-up I did for my local sailing club:

I removed the anchor roller assembly, which also included the headstay chainplate. The yellow circle shows where the chainplate broke.

This is a close-up of the chainplate break. As you can see, the anchor roller also included a welded chainplate. The break is not at the weld, but just above it.

The piece of the chainplate that broke off. There are a couple of things to notice in this picture. The first is that the break shows old corrosion and clean metal from when it finally failed. The chainplate had been failing for a while, but the cracking wasn’t visible due to the anchor roller assembly. Secondly, look at the clevis pin hole. There are at least two issues. The first is that the clevis pin “welded” itself to the chain plate. I had to use a hammer to remove the pin. In addition, the clevis pin hole is too close to the top of the chainplate.

 

Attached is my drawing for the headstay chainplate I had made.

 

Here are two photos showing the anchor roller modification (though, not great photos). I cut a slot in the anchor roller and had a u-shaped piece welded on to the center plate. The chainplate is no longer welded to the anchor roller.

 

Scott

1980 B40 Willow #110

 

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bristol39-40" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bristol39-40...@googlegroups.com.

image002.jpg
image004.jpg
image005.jpg
image006.png
image015.png
Chain Plate V2 (Final).pdf
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages