Pranic Energy or Life Force or whatever it is called

[Akshay S Dinesh (ASD of India)]

Hi
I don't know how many of you have tried this meditation...
Sit down
Close your eyes (like in everything else)
Rise your hands above your head (like when someone points a gun at you
and says "Hands up") (this is to get your energy flowing...
Now, bring the back of your left hand and the back of your right hand
together (like a reverse namasthe) (This is to get the energy in to
your hands)

After a few seconds, keep your hands like you hold them when you say
namasthe, with palms facing each other, but not touching... Don't
apply force, loosen your hand muscles.

Soon you will feel a force developing between your palms.
You can slowly move your hands apart, and you will feel a sensation
like a rubber ball in between your palms...
You can play around with that ball as long as you're concentrating...

------

Somebody taught me this, and told me this is our body's energy..
This thing is working of course.

I just want to know whether this is a phenomenon that has been
observed scientifically, before...
If it is what is the reason behind it.

And what do religious people call it? pranic energy itself? Or chi-
force? I just couldn't find googling.

[Harish M Tharayil]

Akshay,

I tried to do it, but did not feel any energy, I was aware of my palms facing each other, but no force or attraction. I was also more aware of my upper limb as a whole, because of the unusual posture maintained by most of the joints - wrist, elbow, shoulders and the small joints of fingers.  My question is this If there indeed such an energy flowing between between palms, why it does not occur when your put your palms face to face in front of you ? The peculiar sensation you feel may be because of this unusual state of the limb as well. Others might have better explanations. 

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[Akshay S Dinesh (ASD of India)]

I think there is something wrong. Because you usually feel it in under
2 minutes, and almost everyone feels it...
You can be skeptic (I have been), but you shouldn't apply force on
your hands...
Just keep palms facing each other, hands parallel, close your eyes,
and breathe...
Could be it's because of the positioning.. But I've tried moving my
hands in all directions, and it stays there for a reasonable limit.
And the feeling is just like you've covered your arms in a thick
coating...
But I'm not absolutely sure about whether my brain is tricking me into
believing or whether there really is something...
Anybody else, at least tell what happens when you do this.

> > brights-indi...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

[Akshay S Dinesh (ASD of India)]

Oops! I think I said it wrong...
After raising your hands, you must bring it down to your chest
level... Like you do a namasthe...
It actually works when you bring it in front of your face.

And the force is repulsive, not attractive... Though there seems to be
a sudden attraction when hands are brought too close (though I'm not
sure about that attraction)

On Feb 14, 7:09 pm, Harish M Tharayil <drharis...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > brights-indi...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

[Sashikumar kurup]

Dear akshay,
What you feel here is a matter of suggestion, and if you did not know
what a ball was, you may not visualise it in that manner. To eliminate
subjective bias, let us take the case of small children, simply
because they have not the baggage of accumulated conditioning and
other influences. Let us assume that this energy is used for a
beneficial purpose, for curing ailments, otherwise an experience of
such a force is not of any significance. How many children with
diseases have you seen improved by pranic forces ? How many children
have you seen being improved by this type of manouvres ? Is it true
that those children, whose parents train them in these things, don't
get any of the childhood illnesses ?
Apart from all these, you should know that there are things called
proprioceptive receptors in muscles and other areas of the body that
inform us of any new positions or patterns that our body may assume.
That is hiw we automaticaly rearrange our bodies and limbs according
to different situations. When we get used to a particular pattern or
position, the brain does not recognise it as a change, and the
sensation of novelty is lost. That is why you can find people living
in trees, or sadhus in peculiar positions, without any seeming
difficulty. This sensation of a ball between your hands will disappear
if you keep on doing it frequently enough, for the above reason. The
brain is a biologic entity, and so quite adaptive.....sashi

>> brights-indi...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

[Sashikumar kurup]

I wait for Viswan's opinion on this, who is an orthopaedician with
intimate knowledge of body movements and matters like phantom limb
etc........sashi

[Anand Nair]

Akshay,

There are two issues to be considered here:-

a) One is the "sensation" that some people feel when they go through the steps indicated by you.

b) Second is the explanation for the "phenomenon" -- as to why some people feel as if there is a rubber ball between the palms; and also why some others (like Harish) do not experience this sensation.

What is evident is that this "phenomenon" is something that is not universal, but felt only by some (many?) people when they repeat the steps indicated by you. Harish said he did not feel this. (I too tried this, really hoping that I too could sense the "rubber ball" or even a mild repulsion -- but I failed to experience this. I wonder if "almost everyone" really feel this).

You too indicated that one needs to "concentrate". Perhaps Harish and I didn't concentrate enough. We may have approached the experiment with skepticism. 

Now, THAT may give us the hint as to what may be going on. "Concentration" is the necessary (but not sufficient) precondition for hypnosis -- all professional hypnotists ask their subjects to "concentrate". Under hypnosis, some people can be induced to experience different sensations in the absence of conditions that normally cause these sensations. Like the hypnostist asks the subject to touch an object (which is really at room temperature) suggesting that that this is very hot. And amazingly the patient actually experiences the "heat" on touching this! Even blisters (nonherpetic skin blisters) are reported to occur as a result of hypnotic suggestion that an object at normal temperature is "red hot"!

However, hypnoptists invariably fail with subjects who are not suggestible, who are skeptical or who would laugh at them. The same would appear to be true in case of "sensations" (at least of the more specific variety) that follows meditation and other regimens that involve "concentration". By definition, we close our minds to every thing else when we concentrate. This may be useful to undertake some tasks, but would appear to be inadequate as a method to understand holistic reality; where every experience needs to reconciled with every other experience. And also with the experience of other people under similar conditions. Wearing "blinkers" of concentration would not appear to be helpful in scientific pursuits.

I would postulate that the explanation for the "rubber ball" phenomenon is similar to the explanation as to how some subjects under hypnosis blister their fingers (if reports are true) on touching objects at room temperature. 

To summarise, we must NOT prima facie accept explanations for phenomena that involve "energy flows" (pranic or otherwise), "auras" and such loosely defined  stuff -- unless confronted with irrefutable evidence that such stuff are part of reality. This is a good policy precisely because we do have alternate explanations for these phenomena that are more consistent with available evidence...

Anand

[Sashikumar kurup]

Dear Anand, I would like to get confimation, reliable if possible, on
the occurrence of real blisters on touching anything at room
temperature. It seems physically impossible, some charlatanism may be
involved........sashi

On 14/02/2010, Anand Nair <asn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Akshay,
>
> There are two issues to be considered here:-
>
> a) One is the "sensation" that some people feel when they go through the
> steps indicated by you.
>
> b) Second is the explanation for the "phenomenon" -- as to why some people
> feel as if there is a rubber ball between the palms; and also why some
> others (like Harish) do not experience this sensation.
>
> What is evident is that this "phenomenon" is something that is not
> universal, but felt only by some (many?) people when they repeat the steps
> indicated by you. Harish said he did not feel this. (I too tried this,
> really hoping that I too could sense the "rubber ball" or even a mild
> repulsion -- but I failed to experience this. I wonder if "almost everyone"
> really feel this).
>
> You too indicated that one needs to "concentrate". Perhaps Harish and I
> didn't concentrate enough. We may have approached the experiment with
> skepticism.
>
> Now, THAT may give us the hint as to what may be going on. "Concentration"
> is the necessary (but not sufficient) precondition for hypnosis -- all
> professional hypnotists ask their subjects to "concentrate". Under hypnosis,
> some people can be induced to experience different sensations in the absence
> of conditions that normally cause these sensations. Like the hypnostist asks

> the subject to touch an object (which is really at room temperature) *
> suggesting* that that this is very hot. And amazingly the patient actually

> experiences the "heat" on touching this! Even blisters (nonherpetic skin
> blisters) are reported to occur as a result of hypnotic suggestion that an
> object at normal temperature is "red hot"!
>
> However, hypnoptists invariably fail with subjects who are not suggestible,
> who are skeptical or who would laugh at them. The same would appear to be
> true in case of "sensations" (at least of the more specific variety) that
> follows meditation and other regimens that involve "concentration". By
> definition, we close our minds to every thing else when we concentrate. This
> may be useful to undertake some tasks, but would appear to be inadequate as

> a method to understand holistic reality; *where every experience needs to
> reconciled with every other experience*. And also with the experience of

> other people under similar conditions. Wearing "blinkers" of concentration
> would not appear to be helpful in scientific pursuits.
>
> I would postulate that the explanation for the "rubber ball" phenomenon is

> similar to the explanation as to how some subjects *under hypnosis *blister

> their fingers (if reports are true) on touching objects at room
> temperature.
>

> To summarise, we must NOT *prima facie* accept explanations for phenomena

> that involve "energy flows" (pranic or otherwise), "auras" and such loosely
> defined stuff -- unless confronted with irrefutable evidence that such
> stuff are part of reality. This is a good policy precisely because we do
> have alternate explanations for these phenomena that are more consistent
> with available evidence...
>
> Anand
>

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[Anand Nair]

In this context let me quote the "Summary" of a paper titled, "The Production of Blisters by Hypnotic Suggestion: Another Look" by GORDON L. PAUL, M.A. (University of Illinois, Dept. of Psychology, Psychological Clinic, Urbana, III.)

"A survey of the literature to 1962, has revealed 21 reported attempts to produce nonherpetic skin blisters by hypnotic suggestion. Of these 21 reports, only 14 were found to be at all satisfactory in accounting for their methodology, procedures, and controls. Even these "experiments" were found to suffer from poor experimental designs, a small select population, and gross lack of controls, both in control S[ubject]s and experimental controls. 

Three of these reports were sufficiently free of alternative explanations for positive skin reactions to conclude that skin anomalies had been produced by suggestion. Several additional studies on psychogenic vascular changes were reported which add credence to the possibility of central control of these phenomena. 

It was tentatively concluded that the anatomy and physiology of the nervous system possess the necessary characteristics for such reactions to occur, but that certain idiosyncratic predispositions of the S[ubject]s may be a necessary component to demonstrate such phenomena. The reactions do not appear to be limited only to hypnotized S[ubject]s; however, all results to date can be viewed only as pilot studies. In this area, as in so many others, the well-controlled, carefully reported, parametric study is still waiting to be done."

[Source: http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/cgi/reprint/25/3/233.pdf ]

Anand

[Sashikumar kurup]

Anand, thanks, I thought so too. Extreme cold can also cause blisters.
Individual dermatological sensitivities can produce effects at
temperatures that will have no effect on others. The results are as
statistically insignificant as one would expect from such deviations
from the normal........sashi

On 14/02/2010, Anand Nair <asn...@gmail.com> wrote:

> In this context let me quote the "Summary" of a paper titled, "The
> Production of Blisters by Hypnotic Suggestion: Another Look" by GORDON L.
> PAUL, M.A. (University of Illinois, Dept. of Psychology, Psychological
> Clinic, Urbana, III.)
>

> *
> *
> *"A survey of the literature to 1962, has revealed 21 reported attempts to

> produce nonherpetic skin blisters by hypnotic suggestion. Of these 21
> reports, only 14 were found to be at all satisfactory in accounting for
> their methodology, procedures, and controls. Even these "experiments" were
> found to suffer from poor experimental designs, a small select population,
> and gross lack of controls, both in control S[ubject]s and experimental

> controls. *
> *
> *
> *Three of these reports were sufficiently free of alternative explanations

> for positive skin reactions to conclude that skin anomalies had been
> produced by suggestion. Several additional studies on psychogenic vascular
> changes were reported which add credence to the possibility of central

> control of these phenomena. *
> *
> *
> *It was tentatively concluded that the anatomy and physiology of the nervous

> system possess the necessary characteristics for such reactions to occur,
> but that certain idiosyncratic predispositions of the S[ubject]s may be a
> necessary component to demonstrate such phenomena. The reactions do not
> appear to be limited only to hypnotized S[ubject]s; however, all results to
> date can be viewed only as pilot studies. In this area, as in so many
> others, the well-controlled, carefully reported, parametric study is still

> waiting to be done."*
>
> [Source: http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/cgi/reprint/25/3/233.pdf ]
>
> Anand

>
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[Akshay S Dinesh (ASD of India)]

I think I have finally found some info about how to do this...

http://www.mind-energy.net/archives/41-Feel-energy-between-your-hands.html

--
# Sit comfortably. Close your eyes and take a few deep breaths to
relax your mind and body.
# Hold the palms of your hands facing each other about 2 inches (5cm)
apart.
# Perform short and slow movements of the palms around their position,
keeping them facing each other. For example, make small circles (1
inch) with your right palm. Or move both palms in circles.
When you do this you may start to feel some sensations in the palms.
These can be tingling in the palm or fingertips, warmth, slight
pressure or kind of a magnetic repulsion. I usually feel this as if my
palms are two magnets pushing away each other, with the center of the
force at the center of the insides of my palms. And it feel hard for
me to bring them closer together because of this.
You may also try moving the palms farther and closer from each other
in slow movements
# All the time concentrate on the feelings between your palms.
--
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Feel-Energy-In-Under-A-Minute/
(video + excellent comments)
Naotakkun says:
Do you know that the body uses various types of levers to move? When
you extend and retract your arm, there isn't just one muscle
contracting. If that were the case, we could not control the speed of
our movements (unless we had better control of ionic reactions in the
muscles but thats complicated). Instead, the levers in our bodies are
balanced by a push and pull force (two muscles). These muscles oppose
each other, so, for example, when we bend our elbow to extend our arm,
the extending muscles contract more than the flexing muscles. Of these
two forces, the one using more energy will tire faster, letting the
other force pull or push. More briefly, when your arm gets tired of
extending, it retracts -vice vesra.
(COULD THIS BE IT?)
--
other places mentioning this method:
http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/how-to-feel-your-chi/
http://www.dream-analysis.com/columns/2000/26.shtml (with pictures)
http://www.kriyayoga.com/familyforum/posts/437.html
http://www.crystalinks.com/day5plasmaball.html (describes it as a
plasma ball)
--

These are all the weblinks I could find...
This could be our brain tricking us, or hypnosis, or energy or aura,
or muscles when fatigued opposing each other, or anything else... I
honestly would love to hear an authoritative explanation...

On 14 Feb, 18:50, "Akshay S Dinesh (ASD of India)"

[Anand Nair]

Akshay,

You asked, "COULD THIS BE IT?"

Whatever it is, what is clear is that this "phenomenon" does not manifest unless the subject "concentrates", is susceptible to suggestion, and is not skeptical!  Each of these is a NECESSARY condition...

If I ask a blindfolded person (however skeptical)  to hold a tennis ball in the palm, the sensation that would be felt and reported by the individual is (to a significant extent) predictable by other people -- this is so because the felt sensation is caused by the tennis ball, and in that sense represents objective awareness of external reality. 

But what about when one reports feeling a tennis ball which is not there? Such feelings can be induced ONLY in certain predisposed and suggestible individuals using techniques such as hypnosis; or even authoritative suggestion or propaganda that falls short of getting the subject into a hypnotic trance. These "sensations" are unreal in the sense that these do not reflect awareness of external reality. As such it is incorrect to postulate "pranic energy" and such stuff (whose own existence is unsustainable based on available evidence) to explain such subjective sensations that have no objective basis....

Anand

http://WatchMyHealth.com/

[Sashikumar kurup]

Akshay, with all due respect, I wish you would consider the
forementioned reasons, and would issue an approptiate counter based on
known and or plausible facts, rather than on mere physical
manipulations of the body. Have you ever thought why this force is not
evident at all without a corresponding physical action ?......sashi

[Anand Nair]

The guy in your video is actually able to predict that normal people will NOT be able to feel the non-existence repulsion/ attraction! Which is why he has put in an escape clause. To feel this, one needs "two hands and determination"! You don't feel it? Oh, you lack determination -- practice a bit more, concentrate, keep trying ...

Determination and Concentration are states of the mind -- and NOT indicators of the existence of objective "forces" and "energies" that can cause repulsion/ attraction to be felt by the palms. Throw in enough of "Determination and Concentration" -- and one can delude oneself into believing ANYTHING. 

Anand

[viswanathan chathoth]

Anand, Sashi, Harish,

I am sticking out my neck tooooo long here, with my near non-existent knowledge of physics. :-(
 Recently, i am experiencing frequent electric shocks from a door handle in my operating room.Altogether, I have opened this door nearly everyday for some 9 years, but this annoying experience is quite recent in origin. This is electrostatic discharge (- once there was some popping sound which my friend heard) and I guess it is related to the new footwear I am using in OT  now. I understand that walking on certain floors, or on certain rugs can cause electrostatic charging of human body.
Is there a  possibility that in such an electrically  charged state, there may be some mild  repulsion between two hands of the same person, like two leaves of a charged  gold leaf electroscope ? Can it be an explanation for the phenomenon experienced by Akshay?
Viswanathan

--

[Anand Nair]

Vish,

The electric shock that you experience on touching the metallic door handle of your OT could possibly be due to sudden discharge of static charges accumulated on your body. This can happen if your shoes and flooring are made of certain types of materials such as plastic, polymer, fur etc. The dry (non-humid) ambience of the airconditioned OT can contribute to such charge build up. (Shocks on touching pipes and other metal objects can also occur due to poor earthing in the house wiring. This type of shock has nothing to do with accumulation of static charges)

The "shock" is felt when the charged body (at around 4000 V) comes in contact with "earth" (the door handle at 0 V). The potential difference is what causes the sudden discharge, manifesting as the pop sound or/ and the "shock". If the room is dark, arcing may also be visible. (Like micro thunder & lightening)

Attraction does occur in case the objects are OPPOSITELY charged; and repulsion if they have like charges. But the magnitude of force of attraction and repulsion as a result of static charge is so low that this can be detected ONLY by using pith balls, gold leaves, light pieces of paper etc. 

It is extremely unlikely that static charges accumulated on the human body can manifest as "replusion" that can be sensed (rubber ball feeling) by bringing the palms together.You can try this out by bringing your palms together in your OT! 

My prediction is that you will not feel even the slightest sense of repulsion -- despite the fact that both palms have a like charge of around 4000 V (less voltage will not cause "shock" to be sensed during discharge).

Anand

[Muralidharan Enarth Maviton]

 

While we are on this topic it will be worthwhile to look at the  similar "phenomenon" of stigmata that will impress all but the steadfast skeptic. I suggest that Akshay spend some time browsing through the Skeptic's Dictionary  for some understanding about  paranormal  claims that are doing their rounds. See for example: http://www.skepdic.com/stigmata.html

 I remember the time,  long back, of  being fascinated and almost credulous of this claim. Along with  TM, dowsing, hypnosis, martial arts, meditation, yoga,  Vedas...  I now look back,  without much embarrassment at my gullibility in believing anything that came in print. In retrospect, I think it was this fascination that eventually led to learning the facts behind such hoaxes. And going on to be skeptical of ANY such claim even if no explanation is immediately forthcoming. 

Murali

Anand

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[Hary Jith]

Dear Harish Sir,   I am a common man, believe in Science. But I can't follow the principles that is applying to PRANIC. I think that it is the same as Para Psychology.  Any how thank you Sir. Your comment is absolutely reasonable.  People like us expect more clarifications from your side Sir.   With regards   Abdu Raheem --- On Sun, 2/14/10, Harish M Tharayil <drhar...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Harish M Tharayil]

I would like to narrate an incident. This happened during a seminar on Menatl Health. There is one Dr. George Mather (who was former Head of psychology at Kerala university karyavattom campus. Old students call him Pretham because of his interest in ghosts, afterlife etc. He spoke in this seminar and asserted that mind is is not something physical as is generally suggested by psychiatrists. (I had spoken in the forenoon on same day about mental illnesses. As is uslua in my such talks, I had started with a slide showing the brain and asserting that mind is an output of functions of brain). After his talk there was a Q % A session.  Dr George had stated that mind is nothing physical, it is only some vibrations. I put a simple question. Fortunately for me, the organizers had arranged for questions to be scribbled on paper and they will read it out without the name of the person asking it. My question was this "You say that mind is just vibrations. My doubts are 1) What is vibrating 2) Where does this vibration occur?" He was very happy as this was the first question asked by the organizers to him. he started very eloquently, but after the first 2 or 3 sentences got stuck as expected. He wriggled out saying This is a clever question. But he could not answer it properly.

My point is this Vibrations, energy, force, vital force etc are terms used by eloquent speakers to misled the gullible public and to mpress them that they are talking Science. Unfortunately the Malayalam word Sasthram is not the same as science which is understood by the western concept. This is why they are able to mislead the lay man using such terms. Once a student told me about Energy passing in the body. He learned all this from some one in Tvm who uses Ouija board. Finally I had to tell him (irony is that he was a B Tech student) there is no energy they is not explained by Physics, which he has studied. 

[Anand Nair]

Harish,

Indeed! They forget that "vibration", "energy" and "force" are material phenomena. None of these can manifest, separated from matter. 

"Thinking" by the brain requires continuous supply of energy. Which is why thinking stops if oxygen supply (source of energy) to the brain is disrupted even for a small while. Computers too need continuous supply of energy (provided as electricity) to be able to carry out tasks that are analogous to animal thinking....

"Memory" too is impossible without matter -- information can be stored ONLY as patterns of matter (duly coded) for future retrieval (after decoding). A non-material soul (or god) will not be able to retain information (by way of memory), in the absence of a material brain or data processing module. The DNA retains genetic information by forming combinations of 4 basic amino acids (matter!) and using these to code information required for embryonic development.

Telepathy is impossible other than as a material phenomenon. In fact, today "telepathy" has become ubiquitous -- by the use of the mobile phone!

Anand

[Akshay S Dinesh]

Hi everyone. After years of looking around for a scientific explanation I discovered Kohnstamm's phenomenon
http://www.iflscience.com/brain/scientists-investigate-mechanisms-behind-floating-arm-trick
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohnstamm%27s_phenomenon

What I described in the original post could be a different case of this.

" 

Akshay,

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[Anand Nair]

Akshay,

What exactly does Kohnstamm's phenomenon explain? 

http://WatchMyHealth.com/

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[Akshay S Dinesh]

the weird "ball" kind of feeling between hands when kept in front of the chest facing each other for some time.

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[Anand Nair]

So, this means such "feelings" too have mechanical (or materialistic) explanations, after all!

http://WatchMyHealth.com/

[Muralidharan E.M.]

I  wish I too could experience this "feeling" but however hard  I  try, there isn't anything even close to what Akshay is trying to explain. Now,  is it that there is no autosuggestion and therefore no suggestion of the ball or repulsive forces or whatever.

I am glad though that there was some suggestion of  activity in this Brights-india group after a looong time.

Murali