[BNM] Burma

[wa...@codingvista.com]

Hey

You may already be aware of a petition and have tried to do something but we
came across this one and are about to sign up.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/SupportBurmese/

If anyone's aware of something that might have a more effective way of showing
hands please post.

If not, please forward this one to everyone you know.

There's another one to boycott the Chinese Olympics unless they pull their
finger out.

w://

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[Nick Wilsdon]

Wayne wrote:

> There's another one to boycott the Chinese Olympics unless they pull their
finger out.

Hmm I think you’ll find China is a little more worried about legitimising
‘liberal intervention/regime change’ than the attendance at the next
Olympics.

Best Regards,

Nick

CEO
e3internet
http://www.e3internet.com

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[Wayne Douglas]

Nick Wilsdon wrote:
> Wayne wrote:
>
>
>> There's another one to boycott the Chinese Olympics unless they pull their
>>
> finger out.
>
> Hmm I think you’ll find China is a little more worried about legitimising
> ‘liberal intervention/regime change’ than the attendance at the next
> Olympics.
>

> [...]

Well they're bothered enough to stick it on/invest that much money in it
- if everyone boycotted this countries attempt at an olympics we'd be
f*ked.

Screw it, you're probably right - best do nothing.

w://

[Rosie Sherry]

Got sent this today:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/stand_with_burma/tf.php?cl_tf_sign=1

--
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www.rosiesherry.com
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Rapid Software Testing course with James Bach - www.drivenqa.com/training/

[Nick Wilsdon]

Wayne wrote:

> Screw it, you're probably right - best do nothing.

I didn’t say that, it’s just that the Chinese angle is a dead end as they
are worried about the same thing happening to them a few years down the
line. As for Russia, well, they have seen how liberal intervention has
worked out for the West and aren’t all that impressed.

Signing a petition probably makes people feel good, but we’ve already thrown
all the sanctions and threats we can on the Burmese government, a few more
won’t make a difference.

If you’re looking for something that might actually make a difference, I’d
send money to support groups who are helping people at ground level.

http://www.burmacampaign.org.uk/donate.html

Best Regards,

Nick

CEO
e3internet
http://www.e3internet.com

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[Nick Taylor]

The biggest fear of China's rulers is losing face in front of their own
population - China is actually a fairly delicate place believe it or not
- they're far more worried about their own people than outside
influence. There could well be a way of persuading them to act I think,
but it would need to be handled fairly deftly.

But yea - I would be fairly suprised if the Chinese ruling party weren't
watching this one like hawks - because if these demonstrations do (by
some fairly remote chance) wind up creating a regime change, it's a fair
bet that sooner or later, the same pattern is going to turn up in
Tiananmen Sq.

> Wayne wrote:
>
>> There's another one to boycott the Chinese Olympics unless they pull their
> finger out.
>
> Hmm I think you’ll find China is a little more worried about legitimising
> ‘liberal intervention/regime change’ than the attendance at the next
> Olympics.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Nick
>
> CEO
> e3internet
> http://www.e3internet.com
>
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
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> 17:00
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>
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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> 17:00
>
>
>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
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[Lloyd Raworth]

Easy blaming everything on the Chinese government. It would probably
help if we refused anything to do with this lot as well:

http://www.burmacampaign.org.uk/dirty_list/dirty_list.html

Lloyd

>If anyone's aware of something that might have a more effective way
of showing
hands please post.

[Alan Newman]

From that list:

"Total is in a joint venture with the military regime developing an offshore
gas field in the Andaman sea. The gas is exported to Thailand through a
pipeline that travels 65 kilometres through Burma. Total is one of the
biggest foreign investors in Burma. Total has been taken to court by six
Burmese people who were used as forced labour in the preparation of Total’s
pipeline in Burma."

http://www.burmacampaign.org.uk/dirty_list/dirty_list.html

Lloyd

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[Oliver Marshall]

Agree completely.

>
CEO
e3internet
http://www.e3internet.com

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[Michael Rose]

I've been boycotting The Guardian for years for their insistance on calling
Burma, Myanmar.

Seems they've changed policy/editor more recently.

m.

On 28/09/2007, Lloyd Raworth <ll...@lrd.biz> wrote:
>
> Easy blaming everything on the Chinese government. It would probably
> help if we refused anything to do with this lot as well:
>
> http://www.burmacampaign.org.uk/dirty_list/dirty_list.html
>

[Lloyd Raworth]

Yeah. Sad eh? Isn't that what they call "balance" in the corporate
media. The Guardian are so balanced they once referred to Che Guevara
as Chilean and the Cuban revolution as having overthrown the
Argentinian government. In the same article. The Guardian is just a
tabloid with pretensions. To what I couldn't say. Not journalism,
that much seems certain.

Lloyd

Michael wrote:
>I've been boycotting The Guardian for years for their insistance on
calling
>Burma, Myanmar.
>Seems they've changed policy/editor more recently.

m.

[Tom Coady]

On 9/28/07, Michael Rose <micha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've been boycotting The Guardian for years for their insistance on
> calling
> Burma, Myanmar.

Does it matter?
*Myanma* is the written, literary name of the country, while *Bama* or *
Bamar* (from which "Burma" derives) is the oral, colloquial name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myanmar#Etymology
Looks like the Guardian is/was not alone.

Personally I support the Junta's eco-tax on fuel and their right rule
without interference from proselitysing western hypocrites. Like our gov
would not give short shrift to the opinion of religious sects on fuel prices
in parliament square.

[shaun...@gmail.com]

On 28 Sep 2007, at 14:47 || 28/09/2007, Lloyd Raworth wrote:
> The Guardian is just a
> tabloid with pretensions.

Ha. You read a red-top recently?

Shaun

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[Alan Newman]

>>> Does it matter?

Yes it does matter - if you read further down that explanation is says that
it is the name adopted by the Junta...

;-)

- Alan

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[David Pashley]

On Sep 28, 2007 at 14:51, Tom Coady praised the llamas by saying:

> Personally I support the Junta's eco-tax on fuel and their right rule
> without interference from proselitysing western hypocrites. Like our gov
> would not give short shrift to the opinion of religious sects on fuel prices
> in parliament square.

Ignoring the fact you can't protest in Parliament Square without
permission, I find it rather hard to believe that they would start
shooting anyone who tried to do so.

--
David Pashley
da...@davidpashley.com
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

[Chris Billett]

> Ignoring the fact you can't protest in Parliament Square without
> permission, I find it rather hard to believe that they would start
> shooting anyone who tried to do so.

I don't... if it went to the extremes.

[Lloyd Raworth]

Er, about twenty years ago I think. Have they changed much?
Lloyd

Shaun wrote:

>Ha. You read a red-top recently?

--

[David Pashley]

On Sep 28, 2007 at 15:03, Chris Billett praised the llamas by saying:

> > Ignoring the fact you can't protest in Parliament Square without
> > permission, I find it rather hard to believe that they would start
> > shooting anyone who tried to do so.
>
> I don't... if it went to the extremes.
>

Wow, your quoting style is all kinds of wrong.

If you go to extremes anything could happen. It is incredibly unlikely
that a peaceful, unarmed demonstrator would be shot and killed by any
member of the police or armed forces in the foreseeable future. I find
it hard to believe that the armed forces would attempt to sieze power
any time soon.

[Lloyd Raworth]

Hi Dave,

Check out this link when you have a moment'.

http://www.anl.org.uk/13-blairpeach.htm

David wrote:

>It is incredibly unlikely
>that a peaceful, unarmed demonstrator would be shot and killed by any
>member of the police or armed forces in the foreseeable future

[Chris Billett]

>> "Wow, your quoting style is all kinds of wrong."

There's a correct quoting style? I'm not sure what you're on about...

I guess we're in agreement about extremes, then. Burma (oh, on a
Galls-Peters world map it's Myanmar with Burma in brackets, by the way)
has been at an extreme for some time.

CB

[Martin Gordon]

I've not been following this thread that closely but would point out
that as far as western civilisation and democracies indulgence of
peaceful protest goes there is precedent for shooting peaceful unarmed
protesters:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)

This being less than 40 years ago you have to ask yourself, could it
happen again?

Mart

I have no answers only more questions.

David Pashley wrote:
> On Sep 28, 2007 at 15:03, Chris Billett praised the llamas by saying:
>
>>> Ignoring the fact you can't protest in Parliament Square without
>>> permission, I find it rather hard to believe that they would start
>>> shooting anyone who tried to do so.
>>>
>> I don't... if it went to the extremes.
>>
>>
> Wow, your quoting style is all kinds of wrong.
>
> If you go to extremes anything could happen. It is incredibly unlikely
> that a peaceful, unarmed demonstrator would be shot and killed by any
> member of the police or armed forces in the foreseeable future. I find
> it hard to believe that the armed forces would attempt to sieze power
> any time soon.
>
>

--

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[shaun...@gmail.com]

On 28 Sep 2007, at 15:16 || 28/09/2007, Lloyd Raworth wrote:
> Er, about twenty years ago I think. Have they changed much?

They are still full of superficial (but sometimes entertaining)
nonsense. My point being that The Guardian and the red-tops are quite
different - 'The Guardian is just a
tabloid with pretensions' is hyperbole

Shaun

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[David Pashley]

On Sep 28, 2007 at 15:29, Chris Billett praised the llamas by saying:

> >> "Wow, your quoting style is all kinds of wrong."
>
> There's a correct quoting style? I'm not sure what you're on about...

Copying contents from the body of an email and then top posting it is a
new one to me. Your quote marks suggest you said my words.

>
> I guess we're in agreement about extremes, then. Burma (oh, on a
> Galls-Peters world map it's Myanmar with Burma in brackets, by the way)
> has been at an extreme for some time.
>

How is that relevant to something similar happening here? The British
public might be apathetic about politics, but they wouldn't stand for
anywhere near the levels of police brutality you see in Burma or for a
military coup. I can't see either the rank and file police or soliders
supporting their superiors over the public.

> CB
>
> > On Sep 28, 2007 at 15:03, Chris Billett praised the llamas by saying:
> >> > Ignoring the fact you can't protest in Parliament Square without
> >> > permission, I find it rather hard to believe that they would start
> >> > shooting anyone who tried to do so.
> >>
> >> I don't... if it went to the extremes.
> >>
> > Wow, your quoting style is all kinds of wrong.
> >
> > If you go to extremes anything could happen. It is incredibly unlikely
> > that a peaceful, unarmed demonstrator would be shot and killed by any
> > member of the police or armed forces in the foreseeable future. I find
> > it hard to believe that the armed forces would attempt to sieze power
> > any time soon.
> >
> >

[Chris Billett]

Oh, so what you meant was you didn't understand my quoting style. That's
ok. :)

Shall I assume you never studied Irish history, or that you don't count
them the Irish as British citizens?

[Rus Hughes]

You might not get shot for protesting nowadays, but replying to a
mailing list can be even more life threatening :o

[David Pashley]

On Sep 28, 2007 at 15:32, Martin Gordon praised the llamas by saying:

> I've not been following this thread that closely but would point out
> that as far as western civilisation and democracies indulgence of
> peaceful protest goes there is precedent for shooting peaceful unarmed
> protesters:

There's some question as to whether there were any armed protestors on
Bloody Sunday and in both cases there was huge outrage at the actions of
the military. I doubt there will be the same in Burma.

>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)
>
> This being less than 40 years ago you have to ask yourself, could it
> happen again?

>
> Mart
>
> I have no answers only more questions.
>
> David Pashley wrote:
> > On Sep 28, 2007 at 15:03, Chris Billett praised the llamas by saying:
> >
> >>> Ignoring the fact you can't protest in Parliament Square without
> >>> permission, I find it rather hard to believe that they would start
> >>> shooting anyone who tried to do so.
> >>>
> >> I don't... if it went to the extremes.
> >>
> >>
> > Wow, your quoting style is all kinds of wrong.
> >
> > If you go to extremes anything could happen. It is incredibly unlikely
> > that a peaceful, unarmed demonstrator would be shot and killed by any
> > member of the police or armed forces in the foreseeable future. I find
> > it hard to believe that the armed forces would attempt to sieze power
> > any time soon.
> >
> >
>

--

David Pashley
da...@davidpashley.com
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

[Lloyd Raworth]

Hi Shaun,

I don't see much difference. If you regard the tabloid press as
"superficial (but sometimes entertaining) nonsense" then it seems to
me that the Guardian, at best, is little more than the same but for a
slightly more sophisticated audience. Or am I missing something?
Lloyd

Shaun wrote:

They are still full of superficial (but sometimes entertaining)
nonsense. My point being that The Guardian and the red-tops are quite
different - 'The Guardian is just a
tabloid with pretensions' is hyperbole

[Mark Ng]

A bit of a diversion, but I always find gmail ads amusing at times
like this.. "Special Group to Burma" - "Discover Myanmar the
unusual"...

Mark

[David Pashley]

On Sep 28, 2007 at 15:52, Chris Billett praised the llamas by saying:

> Oh, so what you meant was you didn't understand my quoting style. That's
> ok. :)

No, I'm saying it's wrong. You top post and wrongly attribute quotes.

>
> Shall I assume you never studied Irish history, or that you don't count
> them the Irish as British citizens?
>

The Irish are Irish and live in Ireland. People living in Northern
Ireland would be British Citizens (dual nationality aside). I have some
knowledge of parts of the trouble in Northern Ireland and I'm pretty
certain that various members of the armed forces involved in Bloody
Sunday where tried in various military and civilian courts.

[shaun...@gmail.com]

On 28 Sep 2007, at 16:10 || 28/09/2007, Lloyd Raworth wrote:
> I don't see much difference. If you regard the tabloid press as
> "superficial (but sometimes entertaining) nonsense" then it seems to
> me that the Guardian, at best, is little more than the same but for a
> slightly more sophisticated audience. Or am I missing something?

Okay - we are going to disagree about this - there's no point in
dragging it out.

I go back to sitting on the fence (It's Friday - I feel exasperated
enough!)

Shaun

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[Tom Coady]

On 9/28/07, David Pashley <da...@davidpashley.com> wrote:
>
> Ignoring the fact you can't protest in Parliament Square
> without permission,

Why?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serious_Organised_Crime_and_Police_Act_2005#Protests_near_Parliament
make a mockery of our "leadership" or at least right to carp at other
regimes.
We're just aping the basket case that has been US foreign policy since pearl
harbour which makes it OK to like General Zia despite that he has about the
same legitamacy as the myanman junta, except he has a nuclear option.

I find it rather hard to believe that they would start
> shooting anyone who tried to do so.

Yeah, well you can't blame them for lacking good PR skills.
Besides who knows what's necessary to prevent the situation turning into
another iraq?

[Lloyd Raworth]

No worries Shaun. Enjoy your fence.
: )

Regards,
Lloyd

Shaun wrote:

>Okay - we are going to disagree about this - there's no point in
>dragging it out.
>I go back to sitting on the fence (It's Friday - I feel exasperated
>enough!)

[paul perrin]

If one lot of intolerant twats go up against another set of intolerant
twats, the police have little option other than to get involved.

Only people who actually witnesses to events can possibly 'know' what
happened - the next best thing is a jury making a best guess on what they
are told.

As the ANL don't like what they jury said I am surprised that they haven't
put up their photos/names etc on their web site so they can be identified
for re-education - isn't that their 'way'?

On 28/09/2007, Lloyd Raworth <ll...@lrd.biz> wrote:

[iestyn lloyd]

On 9/28/07, paul perrin <pa...@idltd.com> wrote:
> If one lot of intolerant twats

Isn't calling them that being a little intolerant?

[paul perrin]

People are entitled to be twats - I am not planning on forcing them to
change. So not intolerant at all :-)

[Joe Aliferis]

theres nothing worse than intolerance

I am totally intolerant of intolerance !

joe

[Nick Taylor]

I would have though the Guardian was pretty good actually - I wish there
was a newspaper up to that standard in NZ.

Complaining Poms don't know how good they've got it etc. The news
coverage you get in the UK is (actually) the best I've seen in the world.

You know what the headline story on the TV News in NZ was last night?

Ok, I'll tell you. The Tongan World Cup rugby team all dyed their hair
green.

Hurrah. Well that's good to know. There was a bit about Myanmar... a
couple of murder/missing toddler cases that they string out for fucking
weeks (like they do in the UK)... and then the rest of the news is
devoted to sports. I miss Channel 4 news, I miss Paxo and I miss The
Guardian.

New Zealand is rubbish. Don't come. The TV here is crap.

> They are still full of superficial (but sometimes entertaining)
> nonsense. My point being that The Guardian and the red-tops are quite
> different - 'The Guardian is just a
> tabloid with pretensions' is hyperbole

--

[Patrik Germann]

Surely you didn't go there just for the TV? ;)

Nick Taylor said the following on 28.09.2007 23:59:

[paul perrin]

BBC radio is all available for live streaming (and replay of much of the
last weeks output).

However if noone else has a clue what you are on about when you talk about
what happening in the world this may detract from knowing about it somewhat.

I'll mention the hair colour of the tongan team next time I am down the pub
and see what mileage I get from it :-)

Paul

[Lloyd Raworth]

Hi Paul,

Not everyone wants to follow demagogues or gang-up and bully people
who have different skin colouring. Not everyone thinks that there
should be limits on social integration based on race. Many people
naturally feel compelled to compensate for the deficiencies in our
society by challenging bigotry and showing solidarity with the
beleaguered. This doesn't mean they're intolerant. And it doesn't
give the police the right to kill them.

Paul wrote:
>If one lot of intolerant twats go up against another set of intolerant
>twats, the police have little option other than to get involved.

Nick wrote:
>I would have though the Guardian was pretty good actually - I wish
there
>was a newspaper up to that standard in NZ.

>Complaining Poms don't know how good they've got it etc. The news
>coverage you get in the UK is (actually) the best I've seen in the
world.

Hi Nick,

Like our police force, you mean? : )

It might look that way, Nick, but to anybody with a serious interest
in what's going on around us it's inadequacies very quickly become
apparent.

Best regards,

Lloyd

[paul perrin]

It doesn't really matter why you want to gang up and bully people; bullying
is still just plain wrong.

That is what the police are expected to try to stop; and often the public
(in the form a jury) get to say whether they are doing it right.

(God save us from people who want to 'send a message'; without actually
fixing anything).

Paul

[Lloyd Raworth]

Hi Paul,

Neither I nor anyone else has said bullying is right, Why are you
trying to create the opposite impression?

And please, don't try to explain the role of the police or the
function of our legal system to me. Thanks.

No-one is trying to send a message. David mentioned that he
considered it "incredibly unlikely" that the police would kill an
unarmed person on a peaceful protest march, so I posted a link to an
example of them doing precisely that. I did so because I find it
disturbing that anyone in this day and age could possibly be that naive.

If, for some reason, you find that objectionable, I'm happy to debate
things in an adult way, but if all you have are patronising
platitudes why do you bother responding to anything I post on here?
Maybe you like arguing with me. No problem, but if so I'd appreciate
it if you upped your game a little.

Why don't you turn off your computer and try getting out and about a
bit more. You might find you acquire a little more sensitivity and
wisdom. If the police don't kill you that is.

: )

Regards,
Lloyd

Paul wrote:
>It doesn't really matter why you want to gang up and bully people;
bullying
>is still just plain wrong.
>That is what the police are expected to try to stop; and often the
public
>(in the form a jury) get to say whether they are doing it right.

>(God save us from people who want to 'send a message'; without
actually
>fixing anything).

Paul

[paul perrin]

If you post on the internet, you have to put up with the responses you
get(*) (everyone else has to).

You say the police murder people - a jury said otherwise. Who to beleive? -
thats a tough one.

You point to a website that says that the police murderd someone, so what? I
can put one up saying you murdered someone if you like - only take a couple
of minutes.

Paul

(*)At least until the intolerant twats get their way and silence everyone
who disagrees with them - they have started making progress, lets hope it
doesn't get too far before reason prevails and their nonsense gets rolled
back.

On 29/09/2007, Lloyd Raworth <ll...@lrd.biz> wrote:
>

[Lloyd Raworth]

Hi Paul,

All I did was post a link to a website, in a thread about police
brutality (prior to which, I might add, you'd not participated in at
all). OK, I'm no expert on the Anti-Nazi League, but it seems they
might be performing a useful service. Why do you hate them so much?
Why do you seem to hate me?

Paul, if you want to start something with me you had better be
prepared to fucking well finish it. Don't try and hide behind semi-
literate, inarticulate gibberish.

Lloyd

Paul wrote:

>If you post on the internet, you have to put up with the responses you
>get(*) (everyone else has to).
>You say the police murder people - a jury said otherwise. Who to
beleive? -
>thats a tough one.

>You point to a website that says that the police murderd someone,
so what? I
>can put one up saying you murdered someone if you like - only take
a couple
>of minutes.

>Paul

>(*)At least until the intolerant twats get their way and silence
everyone
>who disagrees with them - they have started making progress, lets
hope it
>doesn't get too far before reason prevails and their nonsense gets
rolled
>back.

[Dave Hamber]

Serious situation and all that, but am I the only one who involuntary
thinks of the Monty Python Exploding Penguin sketch each time I hear
"Burma"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR19wnxsqu4

[Lloyd Raworth]

Ha ha. Bye Paul,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS3Mst-V03s
I'll go away and learn some respect now.

Lloyd

Dave wrote:
>Serious situation and all that,

[David Pashley]

On Sep 28, 2007 at 17:23, iestyn lloyd praised the llamas by saying:

> On 9/28/07, paul perrin <pa...@idltd.com> wrote:
> > If one lot of intolerant twats
>
> Isn't calling them that being a little intolerant?

The ANL are as fascist as the people they claim to fight against.

--
David Pashley
da...@davidpashley.com
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

[David Pashley]

On Sep 30, 2007 at 16:53, Lloyd Raworth praised the llamas by saying:

> Hi Paul,
>
> All I did was post a link to a website, in a thread about police
> brutality (prior to which, I might add, you'd not participated in at
> all). OK, I'm no expert on the Anti-Nazi League, but it seems they
> might be performing a useful service. Why do you hate them so much?
> Why do you seem to hate me?

Because they are ironically as fascist as any Nazi. They stir up as much
anti-racial tension as the BNP. They are as misguided as the SWP and
violently so. Frankly, they give the left wing a bad name.

>
> Paul, if you want to start something with me you had better be
> prepared to fucking well finish it. Don't try and hide behind semi-
> literate, inarticulate gibberish.

--

David Pashley
da...@davidpashley.com
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

[Lloyd Raworth]

Hi Dave,

What's "anti-racial tension"?

?

Lloyd

Dave wrote:
>Because they are ironically as fascist as any Nazi. They stir up as
much
>anti-racial tension as the BNP. They are as misguided as the SWP and
>violently so. Frankly, they give the left wing a bad name.

[Patrik Germann]

While you were at each other's throats:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7022437.stm

Patrik

Lloyd Raworth said the following on 01.10.2007 18:58:

[Nick Taylor]

Still - never mind.

When I was up in Estonia recently this guy showed me a card given to him
by a Russian Nazi-Youth group... and they've called themselves "The
Nightwatch".

Which is what the neo-nazi organisation on Babylyon 5 was called.

Coincidence? You decide.

[Lloyd Raworth]

Hi Dave,

Maybe you've been reading too many tabloid newspapers.

As stated on their sister website http://
www.lovemusichateracism.com/, if the media and the politicians took a
firmer stance against racist ideology instead of whipping up hysteria
about immigration, refugees and housing, then there would be no need
for organisations like the anti-nazi league.

The unfortunate fact is that if our politicians and media won't
address these issues in a rational way, and schools are prevented
from teaching history properly, then eventually, matters will end up
being dealt with in the street.

Horrible isn't it?

Frankly, I'm a quite sickened by Paul Perrin's denouncement of Blair
Peach as "an intolerant twat." I'm also sickened by people who wrap
themselves in little cocoons of ignorance and then try to claim that
they're more ethically advanced and 'tolerant' than others.

Lloyd

Dave wrote:
> >Because they are ironically as fascist as any Nazi. They stir up as
> much
> >anti-racial tension as the BNP. They are as misguided as the SWP
and
> >violently so. Frankly, they give the left wing a bad name.

It's hard to know as I've not watched Babylon 5.

Nick wrote:

>When I was up in Estonia recently this guy showed me a card given
to him
>by a Russian Nazi-Youth group... and they've called themselves "The
>Nightwatch".

>Which is what the neo-nazi organisation on Babylyon 5 was called.

>Coincidence? You decide.

--

[Nick Wilsdon]

Nick wrote:

> When I was up in Estonia recently this guy showed me a card given to him
by a Russian Nazi-Youth group... and they've called themselves "The
Nightwatch".

More likely a reference to the popular film/books over here - After a long
battle between the forces of good and evil, they decided to form a truce.
The night was watched by the forces of Good (The Nightwatch) while daytime
was patrolled by the forces of Evil (The Daywatch).

Great films actually – you can get them on Amazon

Best Regards,

Nick

CEO
e3internet
http://www.e3internet.com

P please consider the environment - do you really need to print this email?

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[David Pashley]

On Oct 02, 2007 at 02:12, Lloyd Raworth praised the llamas by saying:

> Hi Dave,
>
> Maybe you've been reading too many tabloid newspapers.

No, I've dealt with the SWP on too many occasions to want to have
anything to do with them again.

--
David Pashley
da...@davidpashley.com
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

[Nick Taylor]

Ahhh... I think I might have seen one of these actually. Is there more
than one of these films then? The one I saw rocked. I quite like Russian
films now I come to think of it.

Mind you, I'm not sure that's any justification for starting a Nazi
Youth group.

I just about got into a scrap with one of these guys down the Greeky
back in the day. Scary. He was getting agro with my mate Mustapha - who
was this 70 year old Turkish guy who affectionatly referred to me as
"Cunt". I gave him a TV when I was drunk once. Mustapha was hilarious.
Had a moustache.

> Nick wrote:
>
>> When I was up in Estonia recently this guy showed me a card given to him
> by a Russian Nazi-Youth group... and they've called themselves "The
> Nightwatch".
>
>
> More likely a reference to the popular film/books over here - After a long
> battle between the forces of good and evil, they decided to form a truce.
> The night was watched by the forces of Good (The Nightwatch) while daytime
> was patrolled by the forces of Evil (The Daywatch).
>
> Great films actually – you can get them on Amazon
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Nick
>
> CEO
> e3internet
> http://www.e3internet.com
>
> P please consider the environment - do you really need to print this email?
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.35/1040 - Release Date: 30/09/2007
> 21:01
>
>
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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> 18:59
>
>
>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

[Nick Taylor]

If there's some sort of big protest in London, the SWP position people
around the tube entrances handing out SWP placards - trying to make it
look like an SWP rally rather than an environmental one or whatever.

> On Oct 02, 2007 at 02:12, Lloyd Raworth praised the llamas by saying:
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> Maybe you've been reading too many tabloid newspapers.
>
> No, I've dealt with the SWP on too many occasions to want to have
> anything to do with them again.
>
--

BNM Subscribe/Unsubscribe:

[Nick Wilsdon]

Nick wrote:

> Ahhh... I think I might have seen one of these actually. Is there more
than one of these films then?

Nightwatch DVD - http://tinyurl.com/yo95qx
Daywatch DVD - http://tinyurl.com/22atpt

After selling 3m copies outside the country they decided (for some reason
only understood by the Russians) to only release the second film in Russian
– no subtitles. Maybe something to do with getting snubbed badly at the
Oscars/film award circles. They are both very good films though.

One of the books here - HYPERLINK
"http://tinyurl.com/yu847f"http://tinyurl.com/yu847f - meant to be three of
them but hard to see how the third one comes in after seeing the end of
Daywatch, maybe they condensed the story. Most Russians have read the books
already.

Yes though – no excuse for setting up a neo-nazi group. The Russians hate
the nazis in general and make as many German/war jokes as the British, but
for some reason there seems to be quite a few incidents in St. Petersburg.
Only real animosity I have seen has been to some Muslim groups (under
conscription, most people here fought in Afghanistan fairly recently) and
homosexuals (the hard line taken by the Orthodox Church doesn’t help – at
the last gay march in Moscow old women were attacking them with
sticks/vegetables).

Best Regards,

Nick

CEO
e3internet
http://www.e3internet.com

P please consider the environment - do you really need to print this email?

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[David Pashley]

On Oct 02, 2007 at 09:10, Nick Wilsdon praised the llamas by saying:

> Nick wrote:
>
> > Ahhh... I think I might have seen one of these actually. Is there more
> than one of these films then?
>
> Nightwatch DVD - http://tinyurl.com/yo95qx
> Daywatch DVD - http://tinyurl.com/22atpt
>
> After selling 3m copies outside the country they decided (for some reason
> only understood by the Russians) to only release the second film in Russian
> – no subtitles. Maybe something to do with getting snubbed badly at the
> Oscars/film award circles. They are both very good films though.

Daywatch is on general release in the UK on Friday. Both films were
released about a year earlier in Russia than in the rest of the world. I
just hope they don't fuck up the editting like they did with Nightwatch.
I'm slightly concerned that Duskwatch is going to be in English thanks
to American studios who are financing it meddling too much.

--
David Pashley
da...@davidpashley.com
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

[Barry Bloye]

On 02/10/2007, Nick Wilsdon wrote:
> After selling 3m copies outside the country they decided (for some reason
> only understood by the Russians) to only release the second film in Russian
> – no subtitles. Maybe something to do with getting snubbed badly at the
> Oscars/film award circles. They are both very good films though.

Daywatch comes out in UK cinemas this Friday, as it happens.

(Sorry for the OT, but I didn't think it was worth creating a new thread.)

Baz

[Rob Beattie]

Nick Wilsdon wrote:
> Nick wrote:
>
>> Ahhh... I think I might have seen one of these actually. Is there more
> than one of these films then?
>
> Nightwatch DVD - http://tinyurl.com/yo95qx
> Daywatch DVD - http://tinyurl.com/22atpt
>

I think Nightwatch is on TV this week - Film
4, maybe?

rob

[Nick Taylor]

> Yes though – no excuse for setting up a neo-nazi group. The Russians hate
> the nazis in general and make as many German/war jokes as the British, but
> for some reason there seems to be quite a few incidents in St. Petersburg.
> Only real animosity I have seen has been to some Muslim groups (under
> conscription, most people here fought in Afghanistan fairly recently) and
> homosexuals (the hard line taken by the Orthodox Church doesn’t help – at
> the last gay march in Moscow old women were attacking them with
> sticks/vegetables).

Yea well - I was using Nazi as a generic ultra-right-wing-nationalistic
catch-all rather than anything with any historical import.

To be fair, the Russians I've met in Estonia are (on the whole) as
friendly as fuck - and the only blatant ethnic hostility I came across
was from some pissed up Estonians against Russians, which I felt quite
embarrassed about to be honest, but there you go.

I met this one Russian girl who was going to Uni in Manchester - who
could speak english and had somehow managed to pack every single british
accent ever into it... so you'd have a Brummie word followed by Oxbridge
followed by Cockney followed by Geordie etc - she was brilliant. It was
like talking to a kaliedoscope.

[Simon Early]

Just thought I'd wade in with some thoughts on this tolerance stuff.

I think tolerance starts at home. I, for instance, gave our Romanian maid an
entire half-day off to go and have her baby, despite the huge pile of
ironing backlog she claimed she could do "cos her back hurt" and "was in
pain". Not my fault if she cant get nearer to the ironing board. Bloody
shirker.
I didnt even complain when her waters broke, as long as she mopped it up
before leaving.

Tolerance. At work.

Dont see that in Burma do you?
s./

[Martin Gordon]

Anyone else in two minds as to whether Simon's joking or not?

;-)

Simon Early wrote:
> Just thought I'd wade in with some thoughts on this tolerance stuff.
>
>
> I think tolerance starts at home. I, for instance, gave our Romanian maid an
> entire half-day off to go and have her baby, despite the huge pile of
> ironing backlog she claimed she could do "cos her back hurt" and "was in
> pain". Not my fault if she cant get nearer to the ironing board. Bloody
> shirker.
> I didnt even complain when her waters broke, as long as she mopped it up
> before leaving.
>
> Tolerance. At work.
>
> Dont see that in Burma do you?
> s./
>

--

Martin Gordon

*Worth*
20 Middle Street
Brighton
BN1 1AL
UK

T: +44 (0)1273 207 555
F: +44 (0)1273 201 840

-----------------------------------------

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disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on the contents of this e-mail
and should destroy it immediately. Thank you for your co-operation.

[Bruce Boughton]

As far as I know monks don't tend to give birth, so no, you're right,
you don't see this in Burma ;)

Bruce Boughton
Software Developer

http://www.madgex.com/ - We're hiring!

[Lloyd Raworth]

Hi Dave,

I've a confession to make. I don't know anything about the ANL or the
SWP, and I'm too lazy (and never been sufficiently interested in
politics) to get involved with any political organisation. I don't
know if that's good or not. The fact is, all I did was post a link to
a page about Blair Peach because I remembered that he was a victim of
police brutality, and people here were saying that the police never
did things like that during peaceful demonstrations. It just happened
to be on website of the Anti-Nazi League.

However, I do take issue with people like Paul who seem to use
everything I write here that isn't directly computer related into an
opportunity to launch a splenetic diatribe. I'm not going to
subscribe to the BNM group anymore anyway. It's just a boring and
embarrassing waste of time.

Ta ta.
Lloyd

Dave wrote:
>I've dealt with the SWP on too many occasions to want to have
>anything to do with them again.

[shaun...@gmail.com]

On 2 Oct 2007, at 10:31 || 02/10/2007, Lloyd Raworth wrote:
> I'm not going to
> subscribe to the BNM group anymore anyway. It's just a boring and
> embarrassing waste of time.

Love you too. Bye x x x

Shaun

---
Work: www.wessexnetworks.com | Personal: www.picturesandwriting.com
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/shaun_morrison
---

[paul perrin]

Finish what?

You seem to think that the police murdered someone and all you can do is
point to a website to support this view.

I just pointed out that this doesn't carry much weight - especially
compared to the full consideration of the matter by a jury.

Which bit don't you understand?

Despite your ANL style attempt to put words into my mouth, and then name and
denounce me for it. I have no idea specifcally about Blair Peach's character
(as you seem to be better informed, maybe you can fill us in?).

The ANL deliberatly created the situation and carry any responsiblity for
what happened and they are, indeed, as bad (and/or worse) than those they
claim to oppose.

Paul

[paul perrin]

Oops as he's no longer on the list, I guess this can be considered
withdrawn...

However on a newmedia topic, I think the ease which people can be misled by
plausible looking websites is something that is relevant.

Regarding Burma, standard chinese tactics isn't it? let the opposition
expose themselves and then they are so much easier to destroy. I wonder how
much of it we would know about if it weren't for the interntet? Having said
that, in the end, what difference has it/does it made?

Paul

[Nick Taylor]

> I'm not going to
> subscribe to the BNM group anymore anyway. It's just a boring and
> embarrassing waste of time.

Not dissimilar to life generally in my experience.

If you're still out there - please don't go. I do enjoy a good dust-up
etc - and as a participating member of a democracy, I think it's quite
important to disagree with people in public.

I think I'd recommend occasionally turning up to The Farm get togethers
on Wednesday occasionally - drinking beer with people tends to take the
edges off thing etc, so long as you don't get into actual physical punchups.

[Nick Taylor]

> However on a newmedia topic, I think the ease which people can be misled by
> plausible looking websites is something that is relevant.

True - though some websites are more credible than others - and the
Blair Peach (although it was so long ago as to be scarcely relevent)
inicident isn't really up for dispute I don't think. It happened -
there's no need to give a source.

> Regarding Burma, standard chinese tactics isn't it? let the opposition
> expose themselves and then they are so much easier to destroy. I wonder how
> much of it we would know about if it weren't for the interntet? Having said
> that, in the end, what difference has it/does it made?

It's not over yet. The images of loads of orange-clad monks is pretty
iconic as well. The consensus among the ebb and flow of (western)
web-commentry seems to revolve around trying to pressure China into
doing something, using the Olympics as leverage.

It's a tough one I think though - I don't think anything can be done
without the dissolution of the ruling Junta... and I can't see that
happening without some sort of rebellion from within the military itself.

Not that I actually know what I'm talking about of course.

[Martin Gordon]

Related to this is a case I heard on the radio a while back. BBC radio
did a short documentary on the rise and impact of Wikipedia and as part
of this they interviewed the lead singer of the Waterboys who mentioned
a problem he'd had in that the wikipedia page about him said that he had
battled with a heroin habit and so he duly went and changed the entry.
The next time he looked the erroneous fact was there again and he
changed it again but during saving he was alerted to the fact that
someone was changing it back. He went on his blog to write up the whole
debacle and the user who had changed it got in touch [obviously a fan]
and apologised but would not let him change the page unless he could
include evidence in some citation to prove he had not had a habit.

What a strange world Wikipedia has opened up.

paul perrin wrote, amongst other things:

> However on a newmedia topic, I think the ease which people can be misled by
> plausible looking websites is something that is relevant.
>
>
>

> Paul

[Kelvin Newman]

I imagine most of you will already of heard about this but the 'revelations'
about which companies were editing their own and competitors enteries was
quite interesting.

http://www.wired.com/politics/onlinerights/news/2007/08/wiki_tracker

kelvin

-----Original Message-----
From: bnmlist...@brightonnewmedia.org
[mailto:bnmlist...@brightonnewmedia.org] On Behalf Of Martin Gordon
Sent: 02 October 2007 11:14
To: Brighton New Media

[Martin Gordon]

I think that was what sparked the BBC Radio doco. I just liked this
particular story, although it loses something in translation as it was
the entertaining quality of the incredulity in the singers Edinburgh
accent that made the story all the more compelling.

Still, to paraphrase Public Enemy, don't believe the internet.

Kelvin Newman wrote:
> I imagine most of you will already of heard about this but the 'revelations'
> about which companies were editing their own and competitors enteries was
> quite interesting.
>
> http://www.wired.com/politics/onlinerights/news/2007/08/wiki_tracker
>

--

[shaun...@gmail.com]

On 2 Oct 2007, at 11:58 || 02/10/2007, Nick Taylor wrote:
> I do enjoy a good dust-up
> etc - and as a participating member of a democracy, I think it's quite
> important to disagree with people in public.

Agreed, but it's also important to be able to take it on the chin and
not become so emotive that you call a new media list 'a boring and
embarrassing waste of time' and the leave because of people's
opinions on a political issue. I stayed away from contributing
because you could tell Lloyd was there to burn anyone who didn't
agree with him.

> I think I'd recommend occasionally turning up to The Farm get
> togethers
> on Wednesday occasionally - drinking beer with people tends to take
> the
> edges off thing etc, so long as you don't get into actual physical
> punchups.

I think Lloyd would be there... with a gun.

Shaun

---
Work: www.wessexnetworks.com | Personal: www.picturesandwriting.com
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/shaun_morrison
---

[Paul Silver]

On Tue, 2 Oct 2007 11:33:05 +0100, "shaun...@gmail.com"
<shaun...@gmail.com> said:
> On 2 Oct 2007, at 11:58 || 02/10/2007, Nick Taylor wrote:
> > I think I'd recommend occasionally turning up to The Farm get
> > togethers
> > on Wednesday occasionally - drinking beer with people tends to take
> > the
> > edges off thing etc, so long as you don't get into actual physical
> > punchups.
>
> I think Lloyd would be there... with a gun.

:-) Funnily enough, Lloyd has been to the Farm a couple of times, and I
think he's even talked to Paul there. Amazingly, a black hole didn't
open up and swallow us all.

Cheers

Paul
--
Paul Silver
Development work: http://www.paulsilver.co.uk
Search engine promotion work: http://webpositioningcentre.co.uk
Home: http://www.tenpastmidnight.com

[David Pashley]

On Oct 02, 2007 at 12:09, Nick Taylor praised the llamas by saying:

>
> > However on a newmedia topic, I think the ease which people can be misled by
> > plausible looking websites is something that is relevant.
>
> True - though some websites are more credible than others - and the
> Blair Peach (although it was so long ago as to be scarcely relevent)
> inicident isn't really up for dispute I don't think. It happened -
> there's no need to give a source.

I don't think there's any doubt that it happened, merely the events
surrounding it may be slightly muddied by particular organisations
views.

>
> > Regarding Burma, standard chinese tactics isn't it? let the opposition
> > expose themselves and then they are so much easier to destroy. I wonder how
> > much of it we would know about if it weren't for the interntet? Having said
> > that, in the end, what difference has it/does it made?
>
> It's not over yet. The images of loads of orange-clad monks is pretty
> iconic as well. The consensus among the ebb and flow of (western)
> web-commentry seems to revolve around trying to pressure China into
> doing something, using the Olympics as leverage.

China really aren't happy with the idea of the people of a close
neighbour rising up against their repressive government. It might give
the chinese ideas. Ideally UN peace keepers should be deployed, but I
suspect China will use their veto again. Any sort of unilateral or
bi-lateral military intervention is very unlikely given the prospect of
angering China and the lack of things like large oil reserves and the
commercial interests certain countries have in Burma.

Basically we have no incentive to intervene and several incentives to
not intervene.

>
> It's a tough one I think though - I don't think anything can be done
> without the dissolution of the ruling Junta... and I can't see that
> happening without some sort of rebellion from within the military itself.
>
> Not that I actually know what I'm talking about of course.

--

David Pashley
da...@davidpashley.com
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

[paul perrin]

Has there been a specific image associated with the events? Images tend to
stick long after the events have faded.

Tiianamen square, had they guy waiting to be run over by a number of tanks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tianasquare.jpg
The fall of saddam had those guys hitting the fallen statue with their
shoes.
Then there was the self immolating buddhist monk

Maybe the british olympic mascot for the peking games should be a little
stuffed buddhist monk - (exploding/immolating may be a bit tasteless). Mind
you these guys olympic logo is kind of neat
http://www.buyhard.fsnet.co.uk/putuporshutup.htm

If the opposition can destabilise the region, then the UN might get off
their fingers out -- but given mugabes continued reign, I kind of doubt it.
Without outside intervention, its really up to the army - maybe the monks
should all sign up. Then again being buddest - how bothered about changing
things are they really?

Paul

[Alan Newman]

>>> Then again being buddest - how bothered about changing
things are they really

Well according to the BBC they have all been rounded up and are awaiting
transportation to some place in the north of the country where they will be
detained.

In other news, there are some reports of some dead monks being found in
rivers....

- Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: bnmlist...@brightonnewmedia.org
[mailto:bnmlist...@brightonnewmedia.org] On Behalf Of paul perrin
Sent: 02 October 2007 12:13
To: Brighton New Media

Subject: Re: [BNM] Burma

Paul

BNM Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://www.brightonnewmedia.org/options/bnmlist

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18:30

[paul perrin]

It was just, if you live in poverty as a monk a monastery - how much does it
matter what the political system outside is? Then again - maybe religion
isn't the subject to get onto next(!).

So I'll stick to opposing oppression on principal - and won't worry about
what the oppressed think about it.

Paul

[Nick Taylor]

> Has there been a specific image associated with the events? Images tend to
> stick long after the events have faded.

There wasn't one specific image no - the image that has proliferated the
most so far is the one of the photographer getting shot... but loads of
people marching all dress in orange is now instantly recogniseable.

As far as branding goes, they've inadvertantly pulled off a coup (that
probably won't be capitalised on) where they've got their own colour -
similar to coke having red or B&H having gold or purple or whatever it is.

http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/AP_Photo/2007/09/25/1190702614_4547/410w.jpg
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/news_images/20070923/p1c-1.jpg

If this carries on, and actually achieves something, I'd say it's fairly
likely to be known as The Saffron Revolution. I mean what headline
writer could resist that?

> Tiianamen square, had they guy waiting to be run over by a number of tanks
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tianasquare.jpg
> The fall of saddam had those guys hitting the fallen statue with their
> shoes.

Yea - unfortunately (or maybe not) though, the iconic image of that war
is the Abu Graeb photo of the guy being electrocuted.

> Then again being buddest - how bothered about changing
> things are they really?

Isn't it to do with going with the flow? If the flow is in the direction
of change then I don't see why not.

[andrew...@gmail.com]

Thanks all - very helpful.

--
Kind regards,
Andy
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[Chris Billett]

Paul wrote:*

> :-) Funnily enough, Lloyd has been to the Farm a couple of times, and I
> think he's even talked to Paul there. Amazingly, a black hole didn't
> open up and swallow us all.

Everyone comes across better in the flesh. I could go into why, but no-one
here's stupid enough for me to need to, right?

Even I don't sound like such a twunt at the Farm... even if someone last
week did tell me not to get drunk before I came next time. (I was sober
and had just come from tutoring someone?!?)

CB

* Quoted properly, eh? Did I make the team coach?

[Mark Ng]

On 02/10/2007, Chris Billett <ch...@chrisbillett.net> wrote:
> Paul wrote:*
>
> > :-) Funnily enough, Lloyd has been to the Farm a couple of times, and I
> > think he's even talked to Paul there. Amazingly, a black hole didn't
> > open up and swallow us all.
>
> Everyone comes across better in the flesh. I could go into why, but no-one
> here's stupid enough for me to need to, right?

I'd just like to say I love BNM and watching you all bicker (and
occasionally bickering with you myself, though I *try* and stay out of
that). Carry on ! Those of us who think this is a big waste of time
need to get a threaded email client.

Mark

[Tom Coady]

On 10/2/07, Chris Billett <ch...@chrisbillett.net> wrote:
>
> * Quoted properly, eh? Did I make the team coach?

Almost. But you're still guilty of double quoting ;-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting#Double-quoting
Using squirrelmail probably doesn't help.

[Chris Billett]

Ha! Squirrelmail doesn't help *anything* - I need an alternate skin or an
upgrade... I think I might switch to IMAP and change to a better webmail
interface anyway - hmm

[Tom Coady]

On 10/2/07, Chris Billett <ch...@chrisbillett.net> wrote:
>
> Ha! Squirrelmail doesn't help *anything* - I need an alternate skin or an
> upgrade... I think I might switch to IMAP and change to a better webmail
> interface anyway - hmm

http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=21288

[Dave Phelan]

A bit late to the game, i know...

On 9/28/07, Chris Billett <ch...@chrisbillett.net> wrote:
> > Ignoring the fact you can't protest in Parliament Square without
> > permission, I find it rather hard to believe that they would start
> > shooting anyone who tried to do so.
>
> I don't... if it went to the extremes.

Remember, we shot a man on the tube for looking a little bit like a terrorist.

And we locked up a bunch of Irish people in the 70s and the 80s for
having the same ethnicity as a bunch of terrorists.

And we've killed a lot of people in Iraq for being in the same city as
some terrorists/insurgents.

It's not beyond belief to imagine a Bloody Sunday happening in
Parliament Square.

Dave Ph
--
Dave Phelan CCIE#3590 skype:davephelan/0208 1445720
dave....@gmail.com http://www.davephelan.org
"The best wifi is just that: free wifi throughout, no codes, no charges."
- William Gibson, http://tinyurl.com/2u4873

[Kelvin Newman]

[big Hollywood voice]Just when you thought it was safe to come back to
BNM[/big Hollywood voice]

-----Original Message-----
From: bnmlist...@brightonnewmedia.org
[mailto:bnmlist...@brightonnewmedia.org] On Behalf Of Dave Phelan
Sent: 02 October 2007 16:00
To: Brighton New Media
Subject: Re: [BNM] Burma

[Wayne Douglas]

Kelvin Newman wrote:
> [big Hollywood voice]Just when you thought it was safe to come back to
> BNM[/big Hollywood voice]
>
>

> [...]
Hey

Cheers for all that chaps. Sorry to all those who felt the need to unsub
under the pressure of it all, it's been emotional. Aside from all that,
do I get the longest thread starter award then?

w://

[Mark Ng]

On 03/10/2007, Wayne Douglas <wa...@codingvista.com> wrote:
> Cheers for all that chaps. Sorry to all those who felt the need to unsub
> under the pressure of it all, it's been emotional. Aside from all that,
> do I get the longest thread starter award then?

No, perhaps the "twisted firestarter" award.

Mark

[shaun...@gmail.com]

On 3 Oct 2007, at 11:45 || 03/10/2007, Mark Ng wrote:
>> Aside from all that,
>> do I get the longest thread starter award then?

The longest threads are always seem to be the ones that have nothing
to do with new media. Ones I can remember:

Burma
Sausages
Heroes
Hangovers

Perhaps they're not the longest, but they're the ones that have a
profound impact on my life :-)

Shaun

---
Work: www.wessexnetworks.com | Personal: www.picturesandwriting.com
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/shaun_morrison
---

[Wayne Douglas]

shaun...@gmail.com wrote:
> On 3 Oct 2007, at 11:45 || 03/10/2007, Mark Ng wrote:
>
>>> Aside from all that,
>>> do I get the longest thread starter award then?
>>>
>
> The longest threads are always seem to be the ones that have nothing
> to do with new media. Ones I can remember:
>
> Burma
> Sausages
> Heroes
> Hangovers
>

> [...]

Hang on a sec. Don't mean to blow my own trumpet and all that but did I
not start the Burma, Sausages and hangovers ones?!

We need to get the anual BNM awards going - it'll be all about me and
it'll be great.

Haha :)

"I am hip hop"

w://

[Lloyd Raworth]

Hi Wayne,

I haven't actually unsubbed yet.

Some may think it misguided, but I think that whenever one encounters
ill-informed small-mindedness it should be engaged with and
challenged. I can't help it if certain parties here find that
irritating.

I'd like to apologise to Paul Perrin for putting words in his mouth.
He didn't call Blair Peach "an intolerant twat", he called the Anti-
Nazi League "intolerant twats". Paul -- I'm sorry. However, if you
think that the police are innocent of his murder, perhaps you need to
ask yourself why they paid compensation to his girlfriend for his
death. Also, and it pains me to have to explain this to you, if you
think that just because a judge and jury have declared the police
innocent, they are, you must be exceptionally dim.

My remark that BNM was a 'boring and embarrassing waste of time'
wasn't intended as an insult to anyone in particular. However, I do
find the snotty insouciance that often characterises some of the
discussions here about quite serious matters both naive and tedious.
But that's just me, and it probably means that I ought to find better
things to do with my spare time.

I read the article below recently and it made me think of BNM a bit:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/career_and_jobs/
article2518124.ece

best regards,
Lloyd

Wayne wrote:
>Hey

>Cheers for all that chaps. Sorry to all those who felt the need to
unsub

>under the pressure of it all, it's been emotional. Aside from all

that,
>do I get the longest thread starter award then?

>w://

[Kelvin Newman]

From the times article....
>Do you need to get out more?

>Are your CDs arranged in order of record label?
>Do you make notes in more than one colour?
>When you finally got a girlfriend, did you start looking for her mouse?
>Do most of your friends' names include @?
>Are your socks embroidered with the day of the week?
>Would you be surprised to hear this also comes in a paper-only format?
>Are you in a chess club?
>Do you alternate between Pizza Hut and Dominos so that you can have a
>balanced diet?
>Is your only item of sportswear bicycle clips?
>Did you ask for your money back because Trainspotting was only about drugs
>and sex?

Not falling back on easy stereotypes there then....

[Lloyd Raworth]

oops, here's the rest of that link:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/career_and_jobs/
article2518124.ece

Lloyd

[Shaun Morrison]

On 3 Oct 2007, at 13:11 || 03/10/2007, Lloyd Raworth wrote:
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/career_and_jobs/
> article2518124.ece

The line breaks after so many characters. If a link is long, use
tinyurl.com

Here's your link: http://tinyurl.com/34brgy

Shaun

---
Work: www.wessexnetworks.com | Personal: www.picturesandwriting.com
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/shaun_morrison
---

[paul perrin]

You can keep slagging me off - it really doesn't bother me - why should I
care whether you think I am 'dim' or 'semi illiterate' (is that different to
semi literate?) or not?. Everyone is free to make up their own mind - and as
long as they make it for themselves based on primary sources, then so be it
- you are entitled to your view, and if you have formed it yourself from
primary sources it might count for something.

I don't *know* what happened to Blair Peach, and have never claimed to.
However I have a view on the quality of the sources available, and can use
them to have a view 'on the balance of probabilities'.

Anyone who says they 'know' something when they clearly don't is a pretty
unreliable source in my books - I would guess that less than half a dozen
people people 'know' what happened to Blair Peach, anyone who wasn't there
and says they know is a liar... And anyone who repeats those lies as the
truth is not worth listening too, as they add nothing and actually obscure
the evidence (I wonder how much of ANL, SWP and other s claim to 'know' what
happened?)

And as you have said that you know nothing about ANL and similar groups,
maybe you should show a bit of humilty when discussing other peoples view of
them.

Paul

[Lloyd Raworth]

Yeah, depressing isn't it?
But it is from The Times, a newspaper published by a reactionary
billionaire, so you can't expect much else.

Lloyd

From the times article....
>Do you need to get out more?
>Are your CDs arranged in order of record label?
>Do you make notes in more than one colour?
>When you finally got a girlfriend, did you start looking for her
mouse?
>Do most of your friends' names include @?
>Are your socks embroidered with the day of the week?
>Would you be surprised to hear this also comes in a paper-only format?
>Are you in a chess club?
>Do you alternate between Pizza Hut and Dominos so that you can have a
>balanced diet?
>Is your only item of sportswear bicycle clips?
>Did you ask for your money back because Trainspotting was only
about drugs
>and sex?

Not falling back on easy stereotypes there then....

[Mat Walker]

Can we *please* knock this on the head now. I suspect most people stopped
reading this thread a long time ago so if there is anymore to be said can it
be done off list?

Thanks,

Mat

[David Pashley]

On Oct 03, 2007 at 13:59, Lloyd Raworth praised the llamas by saying:

> Yeah, depressing isn't it?
> But it is from The Times, a newspaper published by a reactionary
> billionaire, so you can't expect much else.
>

A friend raised the interesting question of whether we can expect
managers to have a better grasp of technological matters. I've worked
with someone they are refering to and he can only answer yes to one
question. I wouldn't want to work with him again. We currently employ
geeks, but I wouldn't want to employ a nerd.

> Lloyd
>
> From the times article....
> >Do you need to get out more?
> >Are your CDs arranged in order of record label?
> >Do you make notes in more than one colour?
> >When you finally got a girlfriend, did you start looking for her
> mouse?
> >Do most of your friends' names include @?
> >Are your socks embroidered with the day of the week?
> >Would you be surprised to hear this also comes in a paper-only format?
> >Are you in a chess club?
> >Do you alternate between Pizza Hut and Dominos so that you can have a
> >balanced diet?
> >Is your only item of sportswear bicycle clips?
> >Did you ask for your money back because Trainspotting was only
> about drugs
> >and sex?
>
> Not falling back on easy stereotypes there then....

--

David Pashley
da...@davidpashley.com
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.