If you own a Versalab, M4, Mazzer Mini, or Cimbali Max Hybrid, please read.

[Sherry C.]

I got my new Cimbali Max Hybrid dialed in over the weekend. It took
about a 3/4 pound of beans and I saw some scary low pressures, then
poof, I'm at 10 psi (normal for me) and I'm getting decent shots
again. I really like single dosing but that's not easy with this
grinder. At the end of the grind, I get a lot of popcorning. While
it can be really entertaining, my concern is that I'm not getting a
consistent amount of ground coffee out even though I'm putting in the
same weight of beans. It's also hard to know when I've finished
grinding my dose. I'll be doing repeat measurements over the coming
days.

So here's the deal, I like to single dose and I like the neatness of
the doser. It's also important to me to have prosumer/commercial
burrs. I liked the hybrid burrs on the Max but also considered:
- Versalab too expensive, but I might change my mind; conical
burrs; possible mechanical issues
- MACAP M4 Stepless - planar burrs are a bit undersized at 58 mm
- Mazzer Mini Electric doserless- planar burrs, commercial size
of 64 mm, concerned about adjustment ease

Nothing seems ideal.

Does the Versalab popcorn? Do you have to have the extras like a
hopper and portafilter holder? Does it need frequent mechanical
adjustments?

Do the other grinders popcorn?

Are you satisfied with the Macap M4's grind?

Is the Mazzer Mini easy for a woman to adjust? I don't have a lot of
arm strength and have to have hubby open jars for me.

Thanks,
Sherry
in the Big Sky Country of Montana

[Barry Luterman]

I can speak to the Mazzer Mini. No popcorning excellent grind. Good reliability (read repeatability). Adjustment is easy. Just remember to run motor while adjusting.

[Chris Carpentieri]

Sherry  -

    I have a new Mazzer Mini.  No popping, adjustment is infinite and very easy.  I have a doser, which can waste a lot of coffee if your are not careful.  Grind is perfectly consistent and the coffee remains cool.  I am pulling the best shots ever since acquiring the Mazzer.

    Chris

---

C R Carpenteri p c

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[jwor...@alaska.net]

For two years I measured each dose of beans, put them into the throat of the
Mazzer Mini with doser, placed a filter on top of the throat to keep the
beans from flying out, and ground.

I have changed to using the hopper that came with the grinder, which I had
never used before. I put 1/4 pound of beans in there, and grind by time now.
It is less work, the shots are just as good if not better.

On of the things I have noticed: even though I time very precisely, an 11
second run of the grinder will sometimes deliver more ground coffee than
other times.

The adjustment of the grind on the Mazzer Mini is a little difficult, due to
the strong springs that prevent the large adjustment wheel from turning my
itself. The machine comes with one screw protruding from the wheel to aide
in the adjustment. I have added a second screw, so I have two to hold on to
but it is still a little difficult to move it a very small distance. But not
nearly as hard as some jar tops, so probably you could handle it. The
protruding screws of course give you a mechanical advantage.

Allen

[Barry Luterman]

Allen run the motor while you are making the adjustment. It's very easy then you can do it with one finger. But then you can't use the hopper if you do that

[KMR]

Assuming the Mazzer Mini doserless is the same as the doser version,
it has a sort of sliding door between the grinding chamber and the
hopper. I grind 17 grams at a time, and it all fits in the chamber. I
then slide the door closed. There is probably some popcorning going
on, but the beans can't jump very far and seem to all get ground up
quickly. With the door open, beans do popcorn into the hopper and it's
hard to get them all ground.

Can't say whether the Mini is easy for a woman to adjust, not being
one, but there was a discussion on this in Alt.Coffee recently which
you should check out. I think the consensus was that it isn't that
hard as long as you have the pin installed which gives you leverage.
Tightening it can be a bit tricky since it takes one hand to hold the
grind switch on (its spring loaded) and the other to turn the collar
using the pin. It's more a question of dexterity than strength.

The doser does a great job of breaking up clumps. I have a doserless
Rocky and prefer the dosered Mazzer.

Karl

[Chris Bailey]

First, I'd read the archives, there was a recent thread (or two) covering a bunch of these questions primarily between the Mazzer and the Macap.  There was quite a lot of feedback, so again, I'd check that out.

Representing the Macap corner...  I have a Macap stepless doserless.  It is extremely easy to adjust, assuming you are only doing espresso.  I would not want to have to go all the way to say French Press, or even just drip - the adjustement is very micro, and you'd have to sit there and turn the dial forever to get up to something like presspot needs.

As for popcorning, honestly, I don't see how any grinder is not going to do that without you putting something on top of the beans.  In my limited experience, reading on this mailing list, and the David Schomer/Vivace book, it is key to put something on top of your beans to prevent this and get the best grind.  Schomer says you just want a fair bit of beans in the hopper, which is of course a simple solution for a cafe which will go through that much.  For home use your opinions on bean freshness may not allow for that.

From what I've found, I now always just keep about a day or two's worth of beans in my hopper.  I used to measure each shot's worth of beans, and even with the sliding cover over where the beans drop into the burrs, I found too much hopping around.  This little door I assume is much like on many grinders, where it's at the base of the hopper, just above the burrs.  I got much more powdery grinds, and the shots simply weren't as good.  I've been more/less anal at times about the freshness factor, but as several others on this group have found, it seems that putting in a day or two's worth of beans in the hopper, and using that as your weight, as well as making things a heck of a lot more convenient, is a good way to go, and I (we?) don't feel like it is a significant impact on the freshness.  I am certainly getting better shots via this approach.

The Versalab is the one I've looked at if I ever upgrade, mainly because it seems to have the most direct path from burrs to portafilter.  My one complaint on the Macap doserless, is that some grinds remain in the spout.  I can fairly easily tap or pull them out, but I don't like that aspect.  On the flip side, I don't want a doser, so it's a bit of a catch-22.  From what I can tell, the Versalab seems to be attempting to solve this problem.  So, when I'm ready to really take it up a notch, I'll be checking this one out :)

[Ira]

At 12:55 PM 2/11/2008, you wrote:
>Are you satisfied with the Macap M4's grind?

It being my first grinder it's hard to say, but it seems to grind
just fine with a bit of clumping. I have the electronic doserless and
I like the timer but not the clumping. Had I known more when I bought
it I'd have had a Versalab before the price increase.

The Macap is very easy to adjust in very small increments and tedious
to adjust in large increments

Ira

[jwor...@alaska.net]

Thanks. I probably could still make microadjustments while I am doing an 11 second grind. That batch would be a mixture but the next batch would be at the new setting. I will give it a try.

[Zed]

Sherry, I own a Macap M4, stepless, dosered.
Very happy with it so far!
Popcorning to a certain extent is part of all grinders that were
designed this way. Very few exceptions exist and the Versalab you
mention is one of them. If I had the funds I would have bought it But
it's 3x the price of the Macap I believe. (1400 or so now)
BUT
you can achieve very good results with the MAcap or the Mazzer if you
minimize the popcorning effect. (Its not a lot I must sress but it is
there)
most professional "home baristas" use the hopper to good effect. That
is they leave a small amount of extra beans in teh hopper to press the
beans down. (I leave 1-2 days worth, and it does not seem to effect
taste at all. ) the difference it makes for me in other ways is very
noticable. (The Macap's hopper is also darkened to keep light out
somewhat. )
Go to Homebarista.com and find that thread about this. It's a good
read. also read a previous thread in this forum if you like:
http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus/browse_thread/thread/892fff3f7276f3a9#
Zed

On Feb 11, 3:55 pm, "Sherry C." <s.cole...@care2.com> wrote:

[Ren Finley]

I have the Versalab M3 (and a Mazzer Mini Doser).

It occasionally kicks out a single bean but doesn't popcorn like my Mazzer. BTW the B2 blank PF basket fits perfectly into the mouth of a Mini as a lid.

I don't have any of the M3 accessories (the hopper and PF holder) and really don't find them necessary. I dose into directly into empty baskets. I have added the 2007 style fineness scale. I generally use just one or two types of beans and have small drops of superglue that mark a starting setting for each type. The superglue method predates the new scale.

My M3 has also been modified to turn a little slower -- 360 RPM instead of the original 400 to reduce the static charge i was originally getting. I live and almost 7000ft and relative humidity can be as low as 10%.

It doses perfectly into baskets, requiring only a small tap to settle everything before tamping.

It's a pretty esoteric piece of gear but as an engineer I appreciate the absolute focus on grind quality above all else.

Ren

"Luigi follow only the Ferrari"
-Luigi, Cars

[KMR]

> Tightening it can be a bit tricky since it takes one hand to hold the
> grind switch on (its spring loaded) and the other to turn the collar
> using the pin. It's more a question of dexterity than strength.

Disregard the above in my earlier posting; it's my Rocky that you need
one had to hold the grind switch on with because its spring loaded. My
Mazzer Mini has a timer, so you have two hands available to adjust it
with.

Karl

[Barry Luterman]

Karl

When I had a Rocky I replaced the spring loaded prawl switch with a on off switch. The same one that is on the back of the machine. I got it from Espresso parts and it was about $10. It is an easy fix. Took about 10 minutes and made my Rocky hands free.

[Zac]

I have a Mazzer Mini Electronic-B, and I do find it a bit annoying to
change the grind setting. It's not that it's difficult - but it's
irritating because enough force is required that I need to stabilize
the grinder itself. I have a pretty good amount of hand strength. It
rocks back and forth if I try to turn it with one hand. I used to
have a rocky and that was not necessary.

To prevent popcorning I close the chute on the bean hopper. That does
the job. Not a problem these days though at all because I home roast
and just leave big piles of beans in the hopper. They don't have time
to go stale.

It's a very good grinder, though. I recently took my setup to a local
community event and made lattes all night long. I was the decaf guy.
A lot of people said those were the best decaf latte's they'd ever
had. I attribute that to the Mazzer and I guess the B2 also. It was
my first experience with decaf. I found I needed to grind much finer
than normal beans and it was a narrow window I had to hit. I was able
to hit it, though. It's a good grinder.

Zac

On Feb 12, 12:21 pm, "Barry Luterman" <luterm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Karl
> When I had a Rocky I replaced the spring loaded prawl switch with a on off
> switch. The same one that is on the back of the machine. I got it from
> Espresso parts and it was about $10. It is an easy fix. Took about 10
> minutes and made my Rocky hands free.
>

[KMR]

Thanks. I need to do that. For me, its pretty much a two person job
now.

Karl

On Feb 12, 12:21 pm, "Barry Luterman" <luterm...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Karl
> When I had a Rocky I replaced the spring loaded prawl switch with a on off
> switch. The same one that is on the back of the machine. I got it from
> Espresso parts and it was about $10. It is an easy fix. Took about 10
> minutes and made my Rocky hands free.
>

[Sherry C.]

Hi All,

I filled the bean hopper and weighed out the ground coffee. I can't
judge how much 16 gm of coffee is when I look in the doser. I found I
had to adjust my grind to be quite a bit more coarse when I grind with
the hopper full. That surprised me but I think I'm on the right track
now. I had an amazing Mocha yesterday and have decided to modify my
ritual to suit the new grinder. I really like the idea of having
conical burrs.

I read a lot here and on CoffeeGeek. After reading more about the
Versalab, I decided not to go that route. Some folks do love the M3
and some have had problems but that may be an older model. What made
up my mind is that Versalab doesn't allow returns, has no warranty on
the grinder, and charges extra for the portafilter handle on a $1500
grinder.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Sherry in Montana