Melt Down

[Stephen Pitcher]

Looking to find a Control Board for my Brewtus ExpoBar 3 R. This happened this morning.

[Bruce in Winnipeg]

Greetings Ezekiel...your note on a circuit board is months old so my apologies for not noticing until now. Are you still looking for a control board?

[Mark Cima]

hello,   I've been looking everywhere online to replace my Brewtus II control board.   I started with WLL and purchased the pid kit and the Giemme EX-60100210; but the board is out of stock and who knows if or when it'll be available.  I've seen possible replacements online but wondering if anyone has suggestions.  The original Giemme RL 1E/2C+KNC/F can be replaced with RLO 1E/SIC/F, but can't find that either.

thanks, Mark

[Ira]

Hello Mark,

Thursday, September 22, 2022, 12:24:47 PM, you wrote:

hello,   I've been looking everywhere online to replace my Brewtus II control board.   I started with WLL and purchased the pid kit and the Giemme EX-60100210; but the board is out of stock and who knows if or when it'll be available.  I've seen possible replacements online but wondering if anyone has suggestions.  The original Giemme RL

I can't tell from your picture what the problem is or what box you need. I have a bunch of spaces for a B-II. My spares are at the shop so I can't go look now. Do you have a picture of the problem controller? Where are you located? You can also try http://boytenterprises.com/collections/electronics.  I've been known to fix them on occasion. If you have a volt meter and are willing to check something, I'll tell you if I have the parts to fix it. It's generally ony one of 2 parts that dies.

-- Ira

[Mark Cima]

hi Ira,   that picture isn't from my machine.   I found the thread after joining the Brewtus group and searching.  But I'm pretty certain the control board for my Brewtus II is bad (pump runs continously), tested other parts in machine, etc.   Don't have a picture as I'm at work but can get one.  it's a Giemme EX-60100210 with 8 connectors. Nothing showing burned out.  Willing to test with a multimeter if you want to have me check.   May need to do this over the weekend but please let know.

thanks,

Mark

[Ira]

Hello Mark,

Thursday, September 22, 2022, 3:03:32 PM, you wrote:

hi Ira,   that picture isn't from my machine.   I found the thread after joining the Brewtus group and searching.  But I'm pretty certain the control board for my Brewtus II is bad (pump runs continously), tested other parts in machine, etc.   Don't have a picture as I'm at work but can get one.  it's a Giemme EX-60100210 with 8 connectors. Nothing showing burned out.  Willing to test with a multimeter if you want to have me check.   May need to do this over the weekend but please let know.

I would like to know the voltage coming out of the transformer mounted on the board inside the controller. Should be 117V on one side and 15V or 18V AC on the output. The transformer is the part that goes out the most followed by relays or the bridge rectifier.

-- Ira

[Mark Cima]

hi Ira,  

took some pictures of the Giemme control board this weekend.  Tested the pins underneath for the transformer,  122 V and 31 V AC.   The board has input 115 V and output 18 V.     The input seems right and output is higher than expected (given my Fluke multimeter is a little off and needs adjusting) .  The history is my machine started shorting/tripping the circuit.   I opened up the machine and noticed the burned out smell.   It was from the pump so I replaced this.  Now when turning on machine the pump runs continuously.  I also took apart the steam boiler and solenoid that fills it to check for blockage but didn't find any.  So the control board should be the culprit; hard to find.

 

  thanks for any advice,

Mark

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[Eric Christoffersen]

Hi Mark,

I just had to deal with control board problem. Dont' be intimidated its a really simple thing. The control board exists to manage state, to make sure steam boiler is full before heat is applied.

I'm sorry I might have some of this wrong but its on the right track. I dont' have my machine open to trace the wires 

The first way that pump can run is if its getting the signal from the brew lever. There's a button switch behind the brew lever cam that might be manked and squished and telling the pump to always run. I think that happened to mine once 5+ years ago. I got a new one, took old one apart and inside it was a ball of ruined metal. So first check that your brew switch is switching, and not stuck 'on'.

The control board is pretty simple,  its entire operation can be described with a few simple phrases like:

1) If the boiler isn't full then the control board sends current to fill solenoid and runs the pump.
2) If boiler is full then the control board sends current to the pstat and eventually the steam heat element.

Since your pump is running it might mean control board is getting wrong signal from steam fill, or it might be your boiler isn't filling.

I once had a clog at the end of the pipe at the bottom of the steam boiler. The little copper pipe that goes from bottom of steam boiler to... bottom of steam boiler. Thats the passage from steam tank to heat exchanger tube thats inside the steam boiler. If its plugged the steam boiler can't fill so control board will constantly request water.

My relay was welded in the pump fill position but pump only ran until boiler was full. Makes me think your problem is not control board. 

Two things I'd like to know:
Do you know if your steam boiler is actually filling?
Check the signal from the fill sensor?

[Mark Cima]

Thanks for suggestions Eric.  

 I took apart the steam boiler and tubing to check for blockages.  I found some debris but nothing really substantial.  Put it back together and still had the issue with my pump running continuously.    I was able to determine that the steam boiler is filling since removing the water fill probe (on top of steam boiler) resulted in water coming out of top.  Actually that was a mistake on my part since I forgot to put the sensor back.  But I realized it must be filling up with water.  Simply put the probe back and no overfilling.  But the pump still ran so back to original problem.  Since it's an old Brewtus II I think it was good to clean out the boiler anyway, make sure water filling boilers, etc.   

I decided to send the control board for inspection.  Turned out to be a bad relay on the board.  They replaced it and my espresso machine is working again!  So these machines are repairable.  

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/38c5708d-ce0f-486e-9ce6-a8e7f8101954n%40googlegroups.com.

[Eric Christoffersen]

Is great you got it working again. I'm really curious what exactly was repaired on your board. Did they do anything other than replace that relay?

It sounds like maybe there was a problem with the board receiving the boiler-full signal from the probe? Maybe a cracked solder joint or something?

I only saw one relay on my board, and while it is in the chain controlling power to the boiler fill solenoid and pump, the pump won't actually run unless the boiler needs filling. Like I said above my relay was stuck in boiler fill position so there was no steam heat, but pump only ran until boiler was full.

[Mark Cima]

The relay was definitely bad..... the capacitor was also replaced as this was recommended since it was not 100%.  The vibration pump went out earlier and I replaced this.   Perhaps there was a short or something and this damaged the board.  Not sure as I've replaced the pump before.   This is why I was focused on the pump running continuously so I originally thought there might be a blockage, the pump not primed right, etc.  Process of elimination let me to the control board must be the problem.  Hope that helps.