Trying To Connect BB1 to Topping EX5 DAC

[Nick White]

Hi. 

I'm new to the Forum.

I have a BB1 and I'm trying to get "HiFi" out of it (!). So I have bought a fairly expensive DAC the Topping EX5 and I want to play the BB1 through it to my amp and speakers.

I can link the EX5 to the BB1 via Bluetooth and it sounds ok/good, but I want to link it via USB where I hope it will sound better/best.

I have tried the "Turn Headphones On" with the USB cable connected to the EX5 but the headphone symbol stays white and there is no connection established. The Vention DAC recommended on the BB1 website pages did work, but the sound, especially the bass, isn't good.

The debug text for the failed connection attempt follows below.

All help or suggestions gratefully received.

pic_thread (): K200
pic_thread (): K300
pic_thread (): K0
************ setVolume 50 ************
No MIXER control selected!!!!!!!!!!!!
switchAlsaPlaybackDevice: called
switchAlsaPlaybackDevice: done
About to switch
_switchAlsaPlaybackDevice: called
About to close current_alsa 1d67450
New alsa device usbdac
Sample format not available for playback: Invalid argument
_switchAlsaPlaybackDevice () Setting of hwparams failed: Invalid argument
Failed to switch alsa playback device
Attempting to switch back
_switchAlsaPlaybackDevice: called
About to close current_alsa 1dcecc0
New alsa device default
ALSA PERIOD TIME 99ms 4408 samples. Buffer size = 22050
It returned
 

[Peter Lowham]

Hi Nick,

Have you run 'Settings & Tools' --> 'Maintenance' --> 'Install USB DAC Driver' on the BB1?

Regards,

Peter.

[Nick White]

Thanks. Yes I have, but I'll try again. I think that's the reason the other Vention DAC worked ok. 

[Davywhizz]

Hi Nick

I don't know much about the BB1, but recently got an EX5, which I think is very impressive. I can suggest two things for now which may help us diagnose your issue:

• Are you able to disconnect the BB1 and send another source to the EX5? If you can, listen to it and check if it sounds as good as you'd expect. Also, compare it to what you are hearing with the BB1/Bluetooth. Also, there will probably be a number showing on the EX5 screen.
• When you try to connect the BB1 via USB, do you see a number on the screen?  Is it a different number to what you saw if you did the test with a different source?

I guess the EX5 was designed with a computer in mind as the source for the USB input. Then you could not only download the driver, which you are trying to do on the BB1, but also set the parameters for the audio quality. My EX5 shows 96 (KHz) on the screen when I use the phone and I set it to 192 on my laptop. 

If the EX5 doesn't show a number when you connect the BB1 it seems likely it's not recognised. It's a shame the BB1 doesn't just have an optical or coaxial output. 

[Daniel Taylor]

I suspect that the numbers Davy sees displayed on the EX5 are the bitrate of the file being played.  So in the case of the BB1 as source, the number would probably be 44.

[Davywhizz]

No, it doesn't read what's coming in, it's what you have set in the source settings.

 I believe there is a way to allow a laptop to control the EX5 DAC and show rates by track,  but that's for another day.

[William Morgan]

I can't help on your specific DAC problem, but I can add my bit on my DAC upgrade today. I Initially followed the BB1 user site's advice & connected my Fosi Audio amp via a £6GBP Sabrent USB DAC. This worked, but recently I thought it was time to upgrade to a more grown-up Headphone Amp DAC.

I bought a FiiO 24bit @ 96kHz unit. It worked straight away & has noticeably improved the sound quality. I mostly use my BB1 for streaming Internet radio, over WiFi. I don't expect any hardcore Audiophiles to swoon over this, but at 35GBP, it's an affordable & worthwhile upgrade.

[Nick White]

Thanks for the suggestions. With the EX5 connected on DAC but the BB1 off, the EX5 screen shows - - -. Then when you click on Turn Headphones On the EX5 display changes to 2.88 with PRE and DSD illuminated. I’m not sure what this means unless it’s MHz. Anyway the connection isn’t made and the signal isn’t transferred.

I’ll try another source into the USB and see what happens.

[Nick White]

Actually it shows 2.88 and I’m not sure what that means.

On Tuesday, 25 January 2022 at 19:22:55 UTC Daniel Taylor wrote:

[Nick White]

Thanks. I already have the EX5 which is a good deal more expensive than the FiiO and tests better, so I would like to get it to work. It would be good if Brennan tried a few more DACs over a wider price range to see which worked. I’m sure they could persuade the suppliers to lend them some.

[Davywhizz]

My EX5 shows 48 and PCM when I switch on with nothing connected, plus the headphone symbol is lit. It's set to headphone output (from the front panel) rather than Preamp (via the RCA/XLR outputs on the back panel). The display switches to 96 (KHz - the sample rate)  when I connect my phone via Bluetooth, or 192 with my laptop.

2.88 is a DSD parameter (in Megabytes).  Which confuses me, as my EX5 shows, as above, PCM. Do we know if the BB1 output is DSD or is it PCM (like the B2)? 

If it is, it sounds like the BB1 is recognised.

[Daniel Taylor]

Nick,

It sounds like the EX5 is a rather more comlicated device than expected.  Does it have a manual that explains all those numbers?

[Davywhizz]

What I'm wondering is if Nick is saying he can't switch the EX5 to "headphone out" (as opposed to preamp out) on the EX5. As I read it, he can't and he's not getting sound either through his amp and speakers or headphones. Presumably the amp is connected either by XLR or RCA cables and the EX5 is set to the right preamp option (the options are XLR balanced, RCA unbalanced or both at the same time). I can switch my EX5 between the various inputs and outputs even when it's not connected to anything, so if Nick can't it may indicate a problem in his. 

We also need to know if the BB1 uses DSD rather than PCM for its digital files, because DSD seems to be what is being recognised in the screen display, which is either as it should be or not.

[Daniel Taylor]

I would be very surprised if the BB1 were outputing DSD.  If it were, then none of the DACs that expect PCM would be working.  I think it's much more likely that the EX5 is either configured wrong or has a problem.

[Nick White]

On the EX5 when trying to connect the BB1 it says 2.88 and DSD which sort of implies to me that some form of handshake has gone wrong. If I connect my iPhone 10 via a lightning to usb adaptor the EX5 says 44.1 and PCM and it plays nicely via my amp and speakers. My phone has the same FLAC music files as the BBI all copied from my original B2.

Similarly if I connect my MacBook Pro the EX5 reads 44.1 and PCM when playing some downloaded music.

I want to persist because my phone has too little memory to hold all my music (all converted to FLACs) and I upgraded the Bb1 memory so it can hold everything. Secondly, as far as I can tell without extended listening, the USB input into the EX5 definitely sounds better than the Bluetooth connection.

Can’t tell if the EX5 is faulty without getting another one but, on balance, I suspect not since the rest is working. It looks more like a software connection problem especially since Brennan points out some DACs work and some don’t.

Thanks for the helpful comments.

[Nick White]

A small folded paper manual only in English and Chinese. The big display numbers appear to be a speed rating I.e. kilohertz. There are also indicators like PCM And DSD. The explanations are a bit thin.

When I try and connect the BB1 it reads 2.88 and DSD which is the wrong format. When I connect my iPhone to the usb it reads 44.1 and PCM which is correct. As far as I know at the moment, I can’t manually change the format to the right one

Thanks for the helpful comments.

On Wednesday, 26 January 2022 at 11:26:46 UTC Daniel Taylor wrote:

[Nick White]

Sorry if what I wrote was confusing or ambiguous. When I try and switch the BB1 to headphones out (“Turn Headphone Output On” command on the BB1) then the EX5 starts displaying 2.88 and DSP but the headphone symbol on the BB1 doesn’t go red and there is no sound from my amp an speakers connected to the EX5 output.

When I connect the Cheap Vention DAC to the BB1 and do “ Turn Headphone Output On” the headphone symbol on the BB1 goes red and music plays from the amp and speakers connected to the Vention.

I suspect the BB1 is using PCM but the EX5 thinks it is using DSD. Not sur how to prove it unless there is something in the Debug script.

Thanks

[Daniel Taylor]

Nick,

Your reasoning seems sound to me.  It could easily be a problem with the BB1 that many DACs ignore.  I think we need Brennan to weigh in on this.

[Davywhizz]

Yes, I doubt if it's an EX5 problem if the USB works via phone or Mac. 

If it's any consolation, I've found the EX5 sounds very good with Bluetooth from my phone using the hi res LDAC BT codec. Up to now I've always avoided using BT for anything to do with audio, but the technology is getting very close now. I bought the EX5 for use in a guest room as a freestanding device with headphones and BT streaming. I must admit I sometimes go in there for a bit of peace or when I can't use the main hifi, it's not really for guests. I might add some desktop speakers later and a wired source.

[Nick White]

Ultimately, I have a solution, but it’s sad for the Brennan BB1. Because I couldn’t get my BB1 to connect to the Topping EX5 DAC via USB for best quality, I loaded my entire CD music collection as FLACs onto my iPad and use the free version on VOX to play them via the USB and the Topping DAC. And the setup sounds pretty good.
So come on Brennan, the challenge is to get the BB1 to work with more, better DACs.

[PMB]

Hi nickdw...,

Thank you for the feedback. I'll add Topping EX5 to the list.

Paul

Brennan Support.