Request for leads... Volunteer for design input/beta tester

[Warren Knauer]

I am looking for means to display navigation through the B2, plus music playback, on my television.  Thanks in advance for any suggestions, straightforward or otherwise!  

Please read on, I really think there is something here to help Brennan continue to increase sales.

It would be such a great present if Brennan were to make the HDMI out satisfy my wants!  I would tell everyone i know of the greatness of the B2 if only...  I mean EVERYONE.

I've started browsing for streamer/DLNA client audio boxes but so far, even the beautiful ones (screens, that is--such as a few from NAD) are simply too small to comfortably enjoy from about 13 feet distance.

Obviously, I greatly enjoyed navigating & playing selections on B2 using the TV via the Roku Ultra as my lens.  Brennan phone app is so-so, web interface is "so-so minus..."  

In short, I like seeing things up on the large screen often so that I need not juggle a computer, tablet or phone.  Possibly major interface web improvements would be a win.  I have ideas if design input or beta testers are needed!!

Frankly, the Roku Media Player (RMP) might have been a hit if not for its 2 issues: 

no clear means of defining or using Playlists, and

seemingly fixed limit in the RMP of using 50 items. (no worries if you're partial to artists in the early letters of the alphabet only).

Good day to all,

Warren

[JFBUK]

Hi Warren,

Could you expand on how things in your setup are currently connected, particularly how the Roku box fits in  ?

Are you using it to display the web UI on your TV ?

As far as I know if you want to control the B2 your only options are the front panel, the credit card remote, the web UI, or phone app ?

Thanks

John

[Warren Knauer]

"As far as I know if you want to control the B2 your only options are the front panel, the credit card remote, the web UI, or phone app ?"

>>> I agree that is all Brennan have provided for currently.  I am splitting my response to John into 3 chunks as one will be lengthy.

[Warren Knauer]

"Could you expand on how things in your setup are currently connected, particularly how the Roku box fits in  ?"

>>> Certainly—the B2 is connected by optical output to an optical input on an A/V receiver (my main entertainment system)

I prefer listening to B2 playback through this main system as it includes my best amplifier/speakers 

I usually am seated 10 to 13 feet away, sometimes further as this room extends to a dining area and the kitchen beyond that

the B2 is adjacent to the A/V receiver, TV and other gear—again, 10 to 13 feet away

the Roku Ultra outputs its video and audio to the same A/V receiver over HDMI

Roku uses “channels” and apps such as Roku Media Player (RMP) which has limitations I already described

[Warren Knauer]

"Are you using (the Roku) to display the web UI on your TV ?"

>>> No—that would only be an improvement if there was web UI redesign  (I am not the biggest fan of the current web UI).  the Roku has no generic web browser channel/app to my knowledge

Roku Media Player (RMP) outputs a display and the audio over the HDMI into the A/V receiver which amplifies the music to the speakers and also sends the video display to the TV 

• RMP shows navigation through the B2 music collection and allows selection/playback of an album
• RMP does not show B2 playlists & I have not succeeded in finding a way to setup/use its own playlists
• RMP shows what is playing during playback
• Many people use a more TV-centric approach of going over HDMI into the TV then using “ARC” or “eARC” to send audio back to the A/V receiver

I do use the web UI when I using my laptop but this is not preferred

• I can mirror my laptop’s web UI or Brennan phone app to this TV—but this is problematic, the text is too small compared to the Roku RMP display which has been designed for TV viewing
• The only easy-to-read mirroring to the Roku & TV involves using the web UI on Chrome on the iPhone in landscape view (portrait is a big fail)
• Mirroring REALLY complicates more than helps because the A/V receiver has to use separate video and audio sources—it can do it but requires selecting the Roku as source then additionally doing an “Audio Select” to retain the Roku video BUT select the B2 audio

I’d rather use a simple remote control such as the B2’s or the Roku’s and see B2 interaction on the TV instead of “juggling” laptop or phone with whatever else I’m doing.  The TV preference is strongest when I’m in the dining area or kitchen 

Simple remote control & TV display would be best UNLESS the phone app design/display were noticeably improved

Coincidentally, it is the Roku that also enables screen mirroring but that is unique & separate from the other uses of the Roku described here (i.e., when using mirroring, that’s ALL the Roku does).  Mirroring the web UI from the laptop is not better than just using the laptop display—mirroring results in very small text.

Regards,

Warren

[Daniel Taylor]

Hi Warren,

How does the Roku box interface to the B2?  Does Roku have a web browser that can see the B2's WebUI?  Does Roku use DLNA, or NAS?

[Daniel Taylor]

I see that my previous post is late, and already partially answered.  I take it that Roku Media Player (RMP) is an app that runs on the Roku box.  But I still don't understand how it accesses the music on the B2.  If it's by DLNA or NAS, then it will not be able to use the B2 playlists.

[Peter Lowham]

Hi Guys,

I think that Warren is using a web browser on the Roku (which is connected to the TV using an HDMI cable) so it is just another window on the B2 through a browser.  I've just tried this on my Amazon Firestick and it works, although the browser (in my case Firefox) is rather 'laggy'.

Regards,

Peter.

[Daniel Taylor]

If the Roku accesses the B2 through the WebUI on a browser, then I would expect the B2's playlists to work.

But he gave an answer to the question above:

"Are you using (the Roku) to display the web UI on your TV ?"
>>> No

For anyone to make any progress on this, we will need to all be on the same page with terminology and understanding what is already in place.

Since I don't understand, maybe I should bow out.

[Peter Lowham]

Hi Daniel,

Hang in there; we need to get more details!  I was making an assumption which could be wrong.   I see what you are saying about Warren's reply but I think that the Roku app must be some sort of 'view' into the the B2 through 'http' access.

Regards,

Peter.

[Warren Knauer]

Daniel, Peter...

The Roku's RMP "app" is accessing B2 via DLNA

Sorry, I am Indianapolis so I was out enjoying a wonderful day of weather before tonight's rain and colder weather.  Also--Sorry, I tend toward telling someone how to build a clock and forget to mention the time of day!

Since I am unfamiliar with any web browser for Roku, this DLNA access is the only available to expand on Brennan's provisioning on my existing hardware choices.  Please be mindful, I am NOT asking for help related to the Roku--it has the friendliest and most easy to read from a distance so I continue to use it as a reference.

I've started "shopping" online for streamer/DLNA client audio boxes or more flexible software but so far, even the beautiful ones (screens, that is--such as a few from NAD) are simply too small to comfortably enjoy from about 13 feet, let alone 25... Phone apps like VLC have some upside but seem to only retrieve and play music to "itself" on phone or computer.  I don't want streaming to my phone. I still want the B2 to play the music.

It won't surprise me if there is no more agreeable way to control the B2--BUT I know there could be!!

It would only require a bit more coding into something like RMP on Roku...

Or building something more like a Spotify Connect sort of thing...  I need to give this LibreSpot thing a try but I doubt it would be able to also access local music in addition to your Spotify account--but I am not a Premium user yet--and again, you end up with your phone in your hand.  I'd rather have a simpler remote but beggars can't be choosy...

I had hoped to be able to use a simple remote control and easily legible TV display... probably not going to happen.

Regards,

Warren

[Daniel Taylor]

Have you looked at Roon, MediaMonkey, Foobar, etc?

[Warren Knauer]

No Daniel, not in detail.  I had a conversation on this forum with someone who uses MediaMonkey but that was limited to tagging FLAC files.  You may have seen that one or even participated.

If you or anyone reading along can speak to how any one of these would further my desire for doing these:

• control the B2 using its remote control (or equally simple remote control--ideally not phone or computer), 
• generate video display to TV across HDMI so I can easily see & perform control functions / navigation through artists, albums & playlists / control playback, 
• build & use playlists in this hypothetical solution (lowest priority of these 4 points), and 
• "play" the B2's FLAC library using its optical or HDMI connections for the audio output

...then I will gladly focus there first.  I hope that doesn't sound like a challenge?  I'm simply trying to improve things from my point of view.

Right now, if any of those three would help--let's just say it isn't immediately clear to me.  I'd even investigate VLC further, or Plex or Kodi or others though somewhere it could seem overkill to me since I do not have a library of ripped video--nor do I want one.

I have a tech friend out in Oregon.  I'll see what he suggests but wish he was local.

FYI

• I have heard of Roon, of course, but only knowledge I have has been gleaned from various YouTube channels.  Very little knowledge of Foobar at all.  I have used VLC but not a lot.
• I may be peculiar in that multi-room sound & control is not something I am seeking so Roon has not struck me as somewhere I need to go.  
• I have systems in 3 rooms, one solely for LP listening, one that is 5.2 "home theater" and one that is becoming a library and will eventually have my best components--but for now, the best is commingled as part of the theater system.

Thanks for the ongoing thoughts!

Warren

[JFBUK]

Hi Warren,

thanks for all the extra info.

In my mind I have distilled your questions to two key things you want :

1. Manage and play your B2 content via a UI that displays on your TV

2. Not add any additional equipment into your current setup to achieve this

To satisfy (1) I believe you need to run either a browser web based interface or dedicated music player app which can access your B2 content over the network.

Either way the browser or app  has to run natively on your TV or on your Roku box to satisfy (2).

I don't know how capable your TV is for running apps.

My aging Sony TV can in theory run apps but not the latest versions and is slow which is why I have an Amazon Fire box in my set up.

I ran a couple of tests.

1. The Amazon Fire box has a proprietary browser , Silk.

I was able to point the browser at my B2 Web UI  page and successfully control the B2 using the Web UI displaying on my TV. The Amazon remote provides rudimentary 'mouse' control, up/down/left/right/enter navigation.

2. I have an Amazon prime account and occasionally listen to music content via the Amazon Music Player. The Amazon Music Player can be configured to discover and play local content on your network.

I did this and used the Amazon player to play content from my B2. This takes a while as it seems to build its own index of your local content. The UI is awful though for local files (see screenshot) and you have none of the non playback functionality of the B2 Web UI.  I know you don't like the B2 UI much !

Spotify can also play local files off your network but the same issues with the UI and functionality exist.

My research indicates that browsers available for the Roku are limited in availability and capability as are music player apps.

My best idea is that you buy yourself a  reasonably priced Android based box with HDMI out to connect to your AV amp (I know this breaks (2) and adds an additional remote) . This will allow you to run both a browser and the music player of your choice on it. It may be that the other apps you use the Roku for will also run on the Android box (e.g. Netflix, HBO) so you can replace the Roku rather than add to it.

Mediamonkey runs on Android but there are many other free music players, AIMP is a great looking one

https://www.aimp.ru/?do=download&os=windows

Hope this helps.

Good luck

John

[Warren Knauer]

John--interesting reading, thank you.  I need to upgrade my TV but I enjoy having mine app-free.  These days, that may not even be an option!  Here are more comments triggered partly by your comments.  I was smiling broadly when I typed some of this... You did attempt distilling out what I want so that emboldened me to speak up  :-)

What do I want?  I want means to 

• display my navigation through the B2 music structure, 
• control my music playback whether by artist/ album/ B2 playlist 

to my television—legible from 10 to 25 feet away.  

Qualifications or considerations?  I prefer not having to buy something new BUT absolutely would consider doing so.  Perceived value / feature set would guide decision-making.

• I don’t want to be forced to use my phone or a computer to do the above. 
• Using a simple remote control or the B2 remote control is strongly desired (or equivalent "learning remote" to learn basic B2 IR codes--such as my Logitech Harmony One).
• Alternatively, I want means to do the above by accessing my B2 files via NAS or DLNA—also displaying to my television.  
• Maintaining playlists external to the B2 that successfully control the B2 would be brilliant
• Album art incorporated into the TV display would be great too
• Presuming an unknown appliance/audio component existed, some complementary capabilities might be desirable to some users—for example, features such as enabling Spotify Connect and the pending higher-resolution stream from Spotify, maybe an on-board DAC, maybe act as a true preamplifier to those using an existing power amplifier.  

Editorializing now, embedded sarcasm set to 11 and fully revealing my pessimist “stripes”… 
What is most likely to happen?

As an outsider looking in, I will guess—from more likely-to-less likely—these are possibilities…

• Nothing
• B2 is updated with capabilities to
  > select a new display Setting [ 720p or 1080p ]
  > generate HDMI display of the basic B2 screen (legibly large on the TV)
  > generate an alternate HDMI display that accomplishes the navigation, etc I described

• Brennan offers a “B2 Prime” (or “B3” or whatever) that meets the wants expressed above
• I find and buy a device that meets the objectives, albeit the damned thing would be overly expensive because of included DAC & streaming—especially of streaming services I don’t use (Qobuz, Tidal, others)
• Cambridge Audio releases something that works for me in April
• A Brennan redesign of B2 web UI causes my jaw to drop open, in awe!
• A Brennan redesign implements user-selectable alternate reorganized/redesigned B2 device menus
  —somehow curing my tinnitus and simultaneously inoculating the world from all strains of COVID-19!!
• I buy a small, cheap TV and use as a monitor for my candy bar-sized Azulle Plus Win10 PC running VLC software or better 
• Roku Media Player, Bitcoin Edition magically appears on my Roku—with capabilities satisfying me.

I hope everyone reading this has a pleasant remainder of their week!

Warren

[JFBUK]

Hi Warren,

always happy to act as a catalyst :)

There are always multiple ways to skin a cat and you have a very particular cat that you want to skin :)

My last thought is about using your mobile as your remote for all your devices. I am sure both Android and Apple controller apps are available for your Roku.

You can use something like Chromecast to mirror what's on your mobile screen to your TV so you could run the music player of your choice on your phone and see what's happening on your TV.

Good luck with whatever you decide 

John

[Warren Knauer]

Update...  Bad & Good

Bad=John--I do sometimes use the Roku phone app but I already attempted to explain Roku's media player has unacceptable limitations.

Good=I am investigating the Volumio Primo...  It seems interesting for some people, my Pros & Cons listed below... thankfully there are many more products to explore

Volumio Primo Pros: 

• Looks like the Primo component will navigate & play (accessing B2 using DLNA or NAS access--or maybe either? need to re-read)
• Some YouTube reviewers I trust have good things to say about its sound quality (at its price--better than Blusound 2i)
• I expect playlists can be maintained using Volumio's software, but I'm assuming that is implemented well
• Can plug in USB drive(s?) stocked with your music library if you want to keep things very simple
• Can output over HDMI--so audio could go into my Yamaha for conversion to analog
• Can send video display out via the single HDMI--not clear whether the Primo always sends both audio & video or whether user is given some control or selectivity over how Primo uses the HDMI out
• Purportedly, it uses an ASUS board computer inside that has lower noise than Raspberry Pi computers & HATs
• Purportedly, one can use the USB ports to add keyboard and/or mouse--doing so provides for additional benefit from the next point
• Purportedly, one can control the Primo using the added touch screen monitor/TV over HDMI or by using mouse/keyboard in conjunction with the monitor attached to it
• Some people speak favorably of the Volumio software--unsurprising 

Volumio Primo Cons: 

• No remote control so you are still reliant on your phone, tablet or computer--rather than a simple little remote control
  
• If you go the attached touchscreen monitor/TV, you're not mobile around your room
• Not inexpensive to purchase
• Some uses or features require additional expense (recurring license or purchase a "lifetime")
• Spotify Connect usage apparently does not require additional licensing expense to Volumio?
• Some people speak unfavorably of the Volumio software--unsurprising

Cheers all--Still investigating what's "out there" as time and motivation allows.

Warren