B2 HDD VS SSD

[Steve Walker]

I have been toying with the idea of buying a B2 for a wee while now, and was wondering if there is any performance benefit with the SSD over the HDD version?

Will the SSD version and an external drive be faster to rip CDs to FLAC?

Any input, or advice would be welcomed.

[Fred Hopper]

My B2 was is 2Tb one - it worked fine.

I decided to replace the HDD in it for a 2Tb SSD (I did this about a year ago) - it all went smoothly.

The B2 is not any faster now but it is a bit cooler (temp). 

It seems to me that the limit on speed is actually what the Raspberry Pi can achieve with the computation and I/O rather than what disk (HDD or SSD) it is writing to.

(I just did it because it would then have no moving parts (apart from the CD player and I like fiddling :))

Hope this helps

Fred

[Steve Walker]

Thank you Fred for sharing your experience, I think I will go with the HDD version for now and then look to upgrade to the SSD at a later date.  

I assume that the SSD is quieter as there are no moving parts.

[Fred Hopper]

Hi Steve,

An SSD by "definition" must of course be quieter than something with a motor but I can't honestly say I ever noticed a sound from the HDD (I do not sit close to it!). What you do hear at power up is the CD mechanism powering on (after which it is silent unless you are using it)

One point, I ordered a 2Tb B2 and my entire collection is only 21021 tracks - 450Gb, so unless your collection is huge I think a 1Tb would be enough. (If you find it is not then you could always upgrade the 1Tb HDD for a 2Tb SSD yourself .... SSDs are coming down in price all the time).

Look through this Forum's entries before you start loading your CD collection, there is a wealth of good advice to be found here.

Fred

[davidvan...@gmail.com]

I am considering to  replace my 2Tb HD by a 1Tb SSD in the hope to have a cooler system. My b2 often overheats meaning I  have to unplug it. Any practical tips for the replacement? Make a backup, replace the disk, and restore?

[Daniel Taylor]

If your B2 is overheating to the point of a malfunction, then you have a problem that swapping the HDD might not fix - unless the problem is the HDD itself.  Under normal conditions, the B2 should not overheat.  Make sure you have nothing resting on top of the unit and that there is room around it for air to circulate - as with any audio or computer equipment.

Try this:

Remove the two screws on the back of the unit, then the next time it over heats, pull the innards out and tough the HDD to see if it is the source of the excess heat.

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

David,

Your B2 should NOT be overheating! for instance if you have a large collection of music and do an Export (to a backup device plugged into USB) then this can take several days to complete. I have done this and while my B2 is warm, it does NOT overheat.

The Raspberry Pi 1 that is the brains of a B2 runs quite happily without needing any cooling OTHER than an airflow round it. 

If you B2 is getting to the point of being so hot it is causing you concern then you need to 

1) ensure that it has an adequate, open airflow.

2) if the airflow is OK then run it for a time and open the back and see if you can determine which module (ie the Pi board or the HDD) the heat is coming from.  The Pi Cpu itself (https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-1-model-a-plus/) - the black chip in the centre - will be too hot to touch but apart from that nothing else including the HDD should be other than warm - if this is not the case then your B2 needs to be looked at professionally as something is failing.

[My home made Raspberry Pi "PiHole" (advertising removal tool on my home network) unit runs continuously at a CPU temp of about 40-45 degrees C and has done for years].

--------------

Check this out first before proceeding to exchanging the HDD for an SSD.

Hope this helps

Fred

[davidvan...@gmail.com]

Thanks for the replies, I have been having these problems basically from the beginning, couple of years ago. The b2 does have sufficient space around it. Since the 2 Tb HDD is rather bulky I thought replacing it with something thinner and likely cooler might help just enough to keep it running. Could try to open it at when it is misbehaving again.

[Daniel Taylor]

I put a 2 TB drive in my B2.  It is no larger physically than the 500 GB drive it replaced.  My B2 does get quite warm.  But it has never exhibited any problem that would be attributed to overheating.

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Hi David,

What happens when your B2 overheats? Can you please describe the symptoms. Can you tell us how hot it is getting?

I am going to turn mine on and measure the temp it gets to for you to compare (I have one of those infrared thermometers) I will measure the temp of the outside metal of the B2 on the top. 

When spinning an HDD should not get too hot to touch and while a (SATA) SSD is a little thinner than a (SATA) HDD this will not make much difference in the B2 because the disk is mounted alongside the Raspberry Pi board, not above it.

-------------------

Anyhow, if you want to go ahead with the swap then the first thing you need to do is a Web Upgrade. Then if you are using the NAS function do a "stop NAS".

Next a backup - (it is a good idea to do the anyway - ALWAYS keep a backup of your music!)  "Export" all of your music to an external USB disk.

Then turn off the B2 and unplug it from all the wires.

If you B2 has a sticky out (from the side) SD Card, remove this.

Undo the back panel screws and GENTLY prize the panel off a little way (https://www.brennan.co.uk/itemcontent.php/content/Techy) - it slides out with the innards of the B2 attached. DON'T pull it out too far because there are shortish cable attached to the front screen which must not be stretched or dislodged.

With the B2 facing away from you, the Pi board is on the left and the HDD on the right. The two will be connected by a SATA cable which will need to be un-clipped form the HDD. Unscrew the HDD, replace it with the SSD and replace the SATA cables.

Ease the innards gently back into the B2 screw up the back.

IF you B2 has a sticky out SD card replace it

Connect your B2 back up to its wires and turn it on. It should power up OK (but it will have no music).

Then from the menus (see https://www.brennan.co.uk/itemcontent.php/content/Menus) - "Advanced" section format the SSD(HDD).

Next attach your backup USB drive to the B2 and run "Import USB C" from the USB Menu settings.

Once completed your B2 should work again a before. If you were using NAS then you would need to restart it.

Fred

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Hi David

Ok after 4 hours turned on and idle with a room (measured the wall) temp of 22 degrees C, the B2's top of the case measured 33 degrees celsius. So 10 degrees C above ambient - warish to the touch but not at all hot.

Fred.

[David Richards]

I've been through the thread and I can't find that anyone has asked how loud David has been playing the B2. Could it just be a problem of the power amp overheating?

DR.

[davidvan...@gmail.com]

Thanks  for more feedback. I guess the problem is related to ambient temperature, it is definitely worse on hot days when it can get 28-30 degrees in my living room. My  first "bug" report about this was from 2016 when I just bought the unit (Martin did offer me an exchange unit under warranty but I kept it). I also experienced problems when the processor is doing a lot of work, converting .wav to .flac files, i.e. after inserting a couple dozen CDs.

My b2 uses the optical out, so the amplifier should be inactive, however I will set the volume to zero just in case. That would be  weird bug if the power amp would be working when nothing is connect. Or am I missing something?

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

David,

Here is the official info (from the Raspberry Pi foundation website) relating to the operating temp range of the Raspberry Pi board in the Brennan B2.

------------------------

The Raspberry Pi is built from commercial chips which are qualified to different temperature ranges; the LAN9514 (LAN9512 on older models with 2 USB ports) is specified by the manufacturers as being qualified from 0°C to 70°C, while the SoC is qualified from -40°C to 85°C. You may well find that the board will work outside those temperatures, but we're not qualifying the board itself to these extremes.

You should not need to use a heatsink, as the chip used in the Raspberry Pi is equivalent to one used in a mobile phone, and should not become hot enough to require any special cooling. 

-------------------------

There are 2 possible sources of main heat in the B2, the Pi board and the amplifier board.  But unless there is some serious electrical fault that has developed, there is no way your B2 should be getting hot enough in normal use to cause it to fail. 

If this were the case Brennan would find all their B2s being returned!!

Now it is always possible that your B2 may have something wrong with it and if this is so and it is getting that hot, In my humble opinion you should stop using it and get it checked out incase it causes a fire (that is what I would do).

However while I note that you have said that your ambient temp is 28-30 C - which would mean you B2 should reach 40-43 C in use, this is still well within the operating temp.

When you notice it to go wrong what happens? 

Have you also picked up on the fact/discussion here that the B2 only likes to do 1 thing at a time - so when it is compressing leave it to finish before opening the UI and playing music etc. Also do have the latest version of the software installed and is the SD card seated properly ?

Sorry if I seem to be trying to teach you to suck eggs but sometimes people overlook these things.

Fred

[davidvan...@gmail.com]

Thanks for more feedback. When the unit does get overheated it just locks up, button press does nothing and web interface is unresponsive. Since there is no power button (a miss!) I have to pull the plug. After cooling down it comes back to normal again. I will keep the single use "feature" that you mention in mind. And yes I do update the  software every once in a while (as stated I had the unit for four  years).

[PMB]

Hi David,

Does the WiFi dongle (if fitted) feel hot - I wonder if it could be causing the lock up problem? You could try running the B2 without the dongle for a while, see if it helps.

Paul

Brennan Support.

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Yes the lack of a power button is a bit of a miss however the pain of pulling the plug can be ameliorated by inserting one of these in the power line from the B2 transformer to the B2.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07HD5MLBB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1.

[Daniel Taylor]

It occurs to me that David's problem may be a marginal SD card that may have deteriorated over the years.  That's one of the weakest parts in the whole system.  It could be heat related, or it could be faulty in some other way.

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Good point Daniel!

David - for very little expense (for the price of a new, good fast SD card - DO NOT PURCHASE A CHEAP/FAKE ONE FROM EBAY get a proper one form a reputable supplier)  you could explore this, it is easy to make load a new SD card with the B2 software - this forum tells you how to in many places.

Also as your have a 2016 B2 I am sure that you SD card sticks out of the side? so you do not need to take the back off either.

[davidvan...@gmail.com]

Thanks  for more feedback. I  am not using Wifi but fixed ethernet, could  never make wifi work. The SD card is the original Sandisk 8Gb. Sandisk is likely one of the better brands, and unlikely to be the source of the problem  although I could try making a new one from an old camera SD card.

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

OK David,

It may be worth trying to generate a new SD card from one form your old camera.....no cost to you but time! - and it would then eliminate the SD card as being the problem (or solve the problem!). SD cards, by their very nature, do not last for ever!.
see:-

http://www.datarecoveryspecialists.co.uk/blog/what-is-the-life-expectancy-of-an-sd-card

Fred