B2 USB not working

[Peter Andrew]

So...the continuing saga of maybe trying to export a playlist onto a USB card reader....

Plug the (tested and working) USB extension lead, complete with USB card reader loaded with an SD card into the USB B slot and B2 says there is no USB to read. How do I "turn on" the USB slot? What do I have to do to make this seemingly straightforward task actually work?

[lesliebr...@gmail.com]

Did you attach the USB extension and card reader prior to powering on the B2? Apparently, the doesn't like hot attaching of USB components, so best to attach while the unit is off.

[Peter Andrew]

By off, do you mean in Standby? Or do you mean yank the power cord out the wall and go for a walk for an hour?

[Peter Andrew]

so even with the power removed and the USB inserted it is still coming up with the No USB message.

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

For USB to work the format of the USB device needs to be FAT32. The SAFEST way to ensure this is to get the B2 to format the device (see menu system) but note this will erase any previous content.

Fred

[Davywhizz]

I've never got any external drive to work in my USB C, which is usually recommended for import and export/backups. So I've always used USB A, which works every time, subject to following the other advice offered here so far.

[Jeff]

Also, the initial post says he plugged it into the usb B  port, that cant be right! And yes, the usb C won't power my back up dive either, have to use A.

[Brian R]

I think the fact that USBc shares the same Raspberry Pi port as the internal HDD may explain why there is less power available for an external HDD in USBc.

Some instructions on the Brennan website have been overtaken by the demands of newer/larger external devices which require more power than their predecessors which were available when the B2 was launched.

Brian

[Russell...@hotmail.com]

Hi Folks - on the back of what has been reported here I have just, out of curiosity, initiated an incremental backup to a USB dive from USB C. 

So from Play/Stop and Saving then rebooting with the USB drive in place the B2 booted as normal. From the USB menu I went to start Export to C - but the USB drive was not seen at all. So I went back to top level of the menu and took the drive out and then at once back into USB C - at this point the B2 recognised it and reported the drive was mounted. From the USB menu I was then able to initiate the Export to C which is running now and all appears OK. My B2 is an April 2019 model but it would seem USB C does at least have the power to carry out the backup (Export) function. Cheers Russ

[Peter Andrew]

On the initial Quick Start Guide thing that arrived with the unit, the photo of the back of the B2 showed the USB A and the USB C slots being used for the various dongles. I expect that when I wired mine up I followed the subliminal advice of the photo and set mine up similarly. So imagine my surprise when I went through the various menus to format the USB B slot and found that only USB A and USB C could be formatted. Having removed the USB card holder to see if that was what was making the USB B slot invisible.... no joy. Formatting the USB b slot is still not an option.

So go to my new iMac and see if I can do it there...and it seems that formatting anything in the FAT 32 format is no longer possible on it!

Has anyone else found one of their USB slots works differently to the others? I expect I could just switch one of the other dongles around to free up the USB B slot, but frankly, with the precarious nature of the system as it is presenting itself to me at the moment I am inclined to not mess around,  in case I render the entire machine utterly useless.

Is it safe to switch the USB dongles around? One will be the wifi, and the other is the bluetooth one.

[Russell...@hotmail.com]

Hi Peter -  If you're using your B2 from WiFi then USB B is not used at all and you can effectively forget about it - People who prefer to use a hard wire ethernet connection use USB B to do this I believe.

It is safe to switch the WiFi and BT dongles between USB A & C - on the B2 USB A provides slightly more power and some people prefer or need to use this for tasks such as "Export" when backing up the B2. (As you can read from my input above USB C works for me to do this task)  I hope this is of some clarification - Cheers Russ

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Please note

The USB B plug on the rear of the B2 - MUST not be used unless you have an old 64Gb B2. see:-

Your B2 should have arrived with a blanking plug in that slot - if it did not, cut a piece of gaffer tape and tape it over so you do not get tempted.

The reason for this is that internally USB B is "used" to connect to the HDD. If you attach thinks to USB B this can cause HDD corruptions.

Fred

On Sunday, 20 December 2020 at 13:08:07 UTC scri...@gmail.com wrote:

[Peter Andrew]

So my B2 "came" with a USB B slot blanked off that I must never use.

I remember my Dad telling me a story about when he was on an ornithological expedition in Iceland just after the war. It was a relatively unusual place to go to and they found themselves in the middle of a very out of the way place. Where they found a sign in the middle of nowhere that read "Do not throw stones at this sign". It was of course pock-marked with evidence of use as a target for stone-throwing.

What is the point of including a USB that we cannot use?

And what is the point of including an option to export to a USB slot when the USB slots A & C have to be used?

What am I missing here? It seems to me that the machine "needs" another USB slot if it is to be able to do what various menu options tempt me to do.... This situation seems borderline preposterous!

[Russell...@hotmail.com]

Hi Peter - apologies I was incorrect in stating that you could use USB B for an Ethernet connection - sorry for the confusion - see this link to the website IF you ever wanted to do that.  https://www.brennan.co.uk/itemcontent.php/content/Techy

However what I have said about A & C ports still stand so you should not need to use another port for normal use -  what is it exactly you are wanting to achieve  and maybe we can advise on how to do. Cheers Russ

[Peter Andrew]

I have the USB slots A and C currently in use by the wifi dongle and the Bluetooth dongle. So by current estimates that means I have no USB options for doing anything at all....because the USB B slot is non functional or must never be used or is permanently blocked off or whatever.... However what I had hoped to do is download a playlist or two onto an SD card so that it would be playable in my car on a long journey. This SD card is inserted into a card reader that is in turn plugged into a USB slot in the Brennan. So..... the question is....even though the B@ has the option to download a playlist it can't be done unless I remove one of the USB A or C dongles. The Bluetooth one maybe?...so that I can still access the web interface...

Or am I missing something?

PS I ignored the idea that I could use the USB B slot for as an ethernet connection....I would never have thought it possible and it didn't seem to solve the problem

[Brian R]

Hi all

At the risk of boring those who have seen this many times before, a history lesson.

When the B2 was launched there was a 64Gb model which had no hard drive, instead ,for storing music, it used the SD card, which at the time stuck out through a hole in the side of the machine. This SD only type was the only model to use USB b . The HDD models utilised the USB b connection internally and to avoid confusion a blanking plug was fitted externally in the USBb socket. Raspberry Pi changed models , the replacement type using a micro SD card thus removing the option of accessing the SD card from outside the B2 case.

USB b was removed for later models (see pic below) so all the references to it must puzzle newer owners.

On Sunday, 20 December 2020 at 14:14:11 UTC Russell...@hotmail.com wrote:

[Russell...@hotmail.com]

Hi Peter - You can remove the Dongles - obviously this will disable whatever function you remove for the period of time it is out - I always remove the Bluetooth dongle and in fact only keep it in USB C so as not to lose it, as I personally do not use Bluetooth apart from very rarely.

If by downloading playlists you mean existing B2 playlists - I do not think you can do that as they are simply text files for the B2 to read to play the relevant tracks. I believe what many people have done is download their selected music tracks to a USB drive in a compatible format that their car needs, say MP3, and then used the USB drive in car that way. 

It is probably easier to do something like this by having your B2 set up as a NAS drive of which there is a lot of information about that if it is of interest. However I do not personally play music outside home so other people on this forum may be able to help more with that side of things. Cheers Russ

[Graham Smout]

 

Hi All

scri...@gmail.com wrote:

 

"So my B2 "came" with a USB B slot blanked off that I must never use."

Yes it did . The online  instructions clearly state that USB port B is unavailable to use and you are warned not to use it.

There same instructions are quite clear on how to use the the USB A and C ports.

You are better off using USB A for connecting either a USB HD or a SD card because it has more power. Remember,  some USB devices consume quite a lot of current and the B2's Pi cannot supply much power so some devices may not work.

 

The advice is to use either a powered USB device or if that's not possible a powered USB  hub interfaced between the B2 and the USB device.

I  have only used powered USB devices in port A or C apart from the dongles, and they have always worked.

 

You can swap the two dongles between the two USB A and C ports. It doesn't seem to matter which one you use fro which dongle.

I personally hardly ever use the Bluetooth dongle so   the Wifi is inPort  C  and a powered USB drive in Port A

Even if your computer could format a USB drive in FAT 32 this probably wouldn't work with the B2. I have always formated USB drives from the B2 format drive A command

"What am I missing here? It seems to me that the machine "needs" another USB slot if it is to be able to do what various menu options tempt me to do.... This situation seems borderline preposterous!"   

That's a rather hefty accusation! What is so preposterous about the situation ? Why  does the B2  need another USB port to function? I disagree and I think you are missing the point.  All the USB ports available on the Pi are in use. You could  use a powered USB hub if for some reason you were desperate for another USB Port .

I like the story about the Icelandic sign warning people not to  throw stones at the sign, but such scenarios are not unique to Iceland!  I'm sure we have all  seen signs warning people not to do the obvious. Such as the sign indiacating the use of guns is prohibited, which are pockmarked with shotgun pellet holes. Or the sign saying Ball games are prohibited on a patch opf grass where a bunch of kids are having a kick about.

[Rik]

Scri, just take out the Bluetooth dongle, (remember to remove from power before you do and power on before replacing). My WINDOWS PC & laptop only have two USB ports - it’s not unusual. Or use a powered hub.

[Peter Andrew]

The preposterousness arises from the scenario where there is one seemingly vacant USB slot that "Must not be used" and the remaining two slots coming supplied with dongles plugged in (or did I plug them in, maybe...but either way) for two fairly standard operative reasons, and then the various playlist export/import options available on the menus, but not really. The "Features List" could usefully have a proviso wording along the lines of "Any two of the following amazing functions available at any time..." It just seems a bit crap to have to disable one feature in order to utilise another....whilst appearing to have a vacant slot.

gps... I think you misunderstand the thrust of the Icelandic signpost story. It was not just a sign telling people to not do the obvious. Without the sign there, there would be nothing to throw stones at. Someone had gone to the not inconsiderable trouble to take a sign several miles from the nearest road, let alone habitation and at a stroke provided the target and the demand.

....and when I take out the bluetooth dongle and try plugging the card reader into that port it still doesn't register

[Russell...@hotmail.com]

Hi Peter - When the BTooth dongle is in place - does the B2 report on the front screen that Bluetooth is available - If it does at least you know the actual Port is functional. 

If so as I mentioned in a thread yesterday it can need the USB device to be taken out and put in again for the B2 to report it seen.

If still no luck can you plug the reader into another device such as a PC and confirm it can be read just in case that has a problem - Cheers Russ

[Peter Andrew]

So..... by some sort of rogue magic the card is recognised in USB C now.... most of the time.

Card formatted and music being imported across in FLAC format so all that remains to be seen is if the files are recognised by my car stereo. And so now I wish I had chosen the compression format  FLAC+MP3 rather than just the default FLAC..... I just bet that my car won't accept anything but MP3 somehow.... does the FLAC+MP3 format take up much more room I wonder?

[Mike W]

I get to read a lot of governmental documents, in almost every one there will be pages where the only text says "This Page Intentionally Blank".

So why have the page? At some point in the past the page would have had something on but in subsequent changes and reformatting the page ended up with nothing on it. They could remove it but instead decided to leave it in with instructions to the user to that effect.

I think that it's a similar situation here, the guide says "not used" so the best advice is not to use it and don't get too hung up on why it's still there.

Mike

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Well my car only accepts mp3.   And with FLAC and Mp3 the Mp3 are in a different folder so need a different way to get them off the B2 (I believe).

Fred

[Daniel Taylor]

There is a command in the Playlist menu that allows you to export the MP3 mirror copies.

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Thanks for that Daniel, I knew there was a way and I may want to do that later.

Fred

[Russell...@hotmail.com]

Hi Peter - There is a program called dBPoweramp which many people on here rate highly and is I think a very efficient and easy way of doing the file conversions you may need - once we know what your car needs. I think you can both pay for a cut down version and pay a reasonable amount for the full version. Have a look at that and it may help - but also NAS set up could well be worth it for you. Cheers Russ

On Sunday, 20 December 2020 at 20:02:39 UTC scri...@gmail.com wrote:

[Russell...@hotmail.com]

Sorry - That is have free for cut down OR pay 

[Davywhizz]

My experience of dBpoweramp was a 21 day free trial then various purchase options. I went for the cheapest package, which should be enough for B2 user needs (I seem to remember there were also video editing options, or for multiple users). It's very impressive and easy to use. From memory I paid just over £30. I've found it particularly good for compilation albums, editing titles and track lists and adding/changing album art. Best to do all that before starting the rip. dBp found more artwork and track lists than the B2 did, simply because it scans more databases. I ripped a lot of CDs and also converted some high resolution files so they would play back on the B2. One big advantage is that dBp will tell you if there's a problem with a particular track and let you decide how to deal with it: the B2 can only stop the rip.

[PMB]

Hi scribula,

You must not use USB B to connect external devices - it is used by the internal HDD.

Does it work in USB A or USB C?

Paul

Brennan Support.

[PMB]

Hi scribula,

I do not normally power the B2 off before plugging or unplugging USB memory sticks or SD Cards, as these are low power devices, and have not experienced any problems doing it this way.

I do power off before plugging my backup HDD in as the high initial current draw can cause problems.

Paul

Brennan Support.

On Saturday, December 19, 2020 at 2:11:04 PM UTC scri...@gmail.com wrote:

so even with the power removed and the USB inserted it is still coming up with the No USB message.

On Saturday, 19 December 2020 at 13:58:01 UTC Peter Andrew wrote:

By off, do you mean in Standby? Or do you mean yank the power cord out the wall and go for a walk for an hour?

On Saturday, 19 December 2020 at 13:49:30 UTC lesliebr...@gmail.com wrote:

Did you attach the USB extension and card reader prior to powering on the B2? Apparently, the doesn't like hot attaching of USB components, so best to attach while the unit is off.

[Peter Andrew]

Thanks Paul....

I am getting more consistent results in getting the card seen now...and also don't bother powering off and on each time.

Regards the exporting tracks to it though.... I only get FLAC files...and my car can't read them. So I should initially (many years ago) have chosen the FLAC+MP3 compression option, if I had known about it or it was available....

exporting the "mirror" MP3 files as suggested above presumably only works if there are MP3 files there initially....which I think there aren't.

So an entirely fruitless few days, but thanks for all the support anyway..... I expect I will at some stage reformat the B2 and start all over again with all my CDs.....but right now I really can't contemplate it!

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Hi Scri

We did say that FLAC would probably not work in the car (wont on mine)

What you can do is copy a "playlist" for the car onto a USB stick and then use a program like https://www.dbpoweramp.com/

On your PC / Mac to convert that export  for the car.

Fred

[Peter Andrew]

this all seems too depressing to contemplate....I will probably just turn on the radio and listen to the radio 4 loop, occasionally wondering if I am the only person to raise a smile at the outrageous mental imagery brought on by the programme "Cross Incontinents"....

[Davywhizz]

Forgive me if I've got this wrong, but can't the flac+mp3 compression be done retrospectively? However long it might take. See notes on the 26 June web upgrade.

[Brian R]

Yes it can but I hesitated before starting another hare running!

Brian

[Would Be Pilot]

Can anyone advise what's the maximum current available at (2016 vintage) B2s USB A and USB C please?  Chasing difficulties with Exporting, I've just checked my WD 'Elements' 1Tb portable HDD and during a 5 minute test Export it maxed at 570mA.  It will run in USB A but very flaky in USB C.  Accurate current availability figures would be most enlightening!

Many thanks, Andrew

[Peter Lowham]

Hi Andrew,

The maiximum current drawn across ALL USB devices on the Ras-Pi 1 Model B (as used in the B2 'early' models) is stated to be 500mA.  On the Ras-Pi 1 Model B+ (as used in the B2 'late' models) this was increased to 1200mA total.  Your B2 is the 'early' model, with the SD cardprotruding out of the side of the case.

I have a thought that USB C can deliver up to 300mA and USB A can deliver up to 500mA, but I cannt currently find any written statement to confirm this.

I have attached a PDF which has a few details on the Ras-Pi USB ports.

From your other thread, you have a powered USB hub, but that did not fix the problem?

I will update your other thread shortly; I'm working through the stats you posted on that one.

Regards,

Peter.

[Would Be Pilot]

Hello Peter; thanks as always for helpful information.  My WD USB HDD certainly exceeds 500mA at maximum demand but the new powered hub didn't seem to make any difference on the latest Export run, as I've related.  Suspect more trials will be needed!

Could you check the pdf you attached - when I download it I get a single blank page except for "1.2A" in the top LH corner!  Not sure if it's me!

Best regards, Andrew

[Peter Lowham]

Hi Andrew,

PSA another PDF of the USB power notes; you are correct in that the previous attachment is corrupt.  Hopefully this version is readable now.

Regards,

Peter.

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Andrew, using the powered hub should have eliminated the problem if it was a simple power issue. 

As the powered hub did not work we have to now look in 2 directions.

Direction 1 would be your USB HDD, but I assume this works OK when plugged into your PC/MAC - no strange glitches?

Direction 2 would be the bit between your B2's Pi board (I am assuming the Pi's native USB ports are OK as you are not having HDD issues and your external disk fails using both of the B2 USB ports A and C) and the B2's USB ports.

If you feel confident you could unplug and disconnected the B2, remove its back and make sure that all the connectors inside are firmly seated. 

I recall not long ago we had a high street repair man on the forum, who we helped with a USB issue with a B2 that a customer had brought him in.

Fred 

On Monday, 1 March 2021 at 19:45:05 UTC andr...@btinternet.com wrote:

[Would Be Pilot]

Hi All:  To Peter and Fred – so many thanks for your continued interest and support with this quirky problem!

To answer some of the questions posed:            USB B remains capped as originally supplied;    yes, the WD Elements HDD is a USB 3 device with a “SS” connector.

Yes, I HAVE just fitted a 6 inch USB 3 extension cable into USB A & C for ease of connecting the HDD – but this backup problem has existed from when I bought the B2; it’s only since I added my Sonos speakers that the B2 has taken on a central role as music source that the backup issue has become of concern.  I can manage without the extensions - one uncertainty removed!

The WD HDD always connects, runs and seems to work fine when plugged into my Mac; I only use it to backup the B2 so have no wider view of its operation.  It is the same vintage as the B2, 2016.

One of the first things I did to the B2 was to fit an ethernet cable so I have had the case open – a check inside now is a good idea.

The powered hub is certainly a necessity to prevent the HDD’s 570mA max demand overloading the B2’s USB current capability when connected directly – thanks for the later pdf Peter.

So, to start a process of elimination.  Before I do anything else, I’ll try a NEW USB HDD -  I’ve ordered a Seagate 1Tb just to ‘break the mould’ as I’ve always used WD HDDs for both installed and portable drives.  Should be here tomorrow; as soon as it arrives I’ll get it working and report back on progress.  If the ‘fault’ remains, it begins to narrow it down to the B2. 

Hope everyone has a satisfying Tuesday

Best regards,  Andrew

[Would Be Pilot]

SUCCESS!!       The Seagate 1Tb “Ultra Touch” portable USB HDD arrived yesterday so I formatted it as FAT32 via my Mac – I didn’t know a Mac gave you the option to format as MS-DOS (FAT32), but I do now!

I powered up the B2, ran Scan Disk, plugged the HDD into the powered hub (already connected to USB A) and set Export running. That was 3 March, 21.27hr.  

When I checked this morning 4 March, 06.30, B2 was in standby – 9 hours elapsed.  I checked the Seagate to find 283.32Gb for the ‘Music’ folder; 276.56Gb size by B2 data. When I re-connected the HDD and ran Export again – nothing remained to Export – Export complete in single run in under 9 hours.

I checked current draw for the Seagate drive and found short peaks of 630mA so the powered Hub is essential.

As a double check, I deleted the backup and re-formatted the Seagate through the B2 and ran Export again this morning, this time in USB C, through the powered hub; time start 11:46hr. Export run completed at 20.36hr this evening – elapsed time 8 hours 49 minutes (529 minutes).  Again ‘Music’ folder size (by my Mac) showing as 283.32 Gb.  The print-out of the B2 data confirms equal numbers of tracks, albums and artists on internal & USB drives:

Software Version B2B Feb 25 2021 09:14:19

5671 tracks in 546 albums 190 artists

5567 WAV 26 FLAC 26 MP3 52 AAC

Capacity 1000.00G Used 276.56Gb

USB 5671 tracks in 546 albums 190 artists

0 Youtubes

Have I just seen a transfer rate (for the B2 capacity) of about 31.4 Gb/hour?  This seems very quick for the older style B2!

Happy to supply any more information to all the helpful people on the forum; thanks especially to Peter, Fred, Paul and Daniel who have guided me down the route to a great result!

Best regards, Andrew

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Hi Andrew,

So pleased that you are now sorted.

So to summerise for readers of this thread, we have found out that you needed a powered USB hub and that your old USB HDD backup drive had 'issues' which were sorted by you getting a new one.

Fred

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Hi Andrew,

I note that you are not on the latest software release - Web Upgrade needed 😁
Fred

On Thursday, 4 March 2021 at 22:34:35 UTC andr...@btinternet.com wrote:

[Would Be Pilot]

Good morning Fred, thanks for the nudge.  With Sonos connections fixed by 25/2 update everything here is working like a charm so hadn't thought to check Brennan website for further updates!  Update done.

Your summary of the backup issue is spot on - the moral of the story is don't take anything for granted!  I never suspected the WD HDD was 'faulty' because I'd never had trouble with WD items before.  Eliminate the obvious/major items before moving onto technicalities.

I'll investigate the WD HDD (using the Debug file) before I bin it out of curiosity to try and spot what it was doing to keep disconnecting from the B2.

Best regards to you and fellow followers,  Andrew