HDD Problems

[Fred Waltman]

Well, one year ago yesterday I bought my B2 -- so you know what that means :(

I actually haven't used it in a while (since it stopped playing well my my Sonos) when I noticed the display was on -- and was bright (I normally have the brightness set to the minimum). Also, the time was off -- wrong timezone.

I fired the web up the web interface and was saw zero files. But also noticed it was set to SD card. Went to settings, changed to HDD -- it rebooted and still came SD Card. I also had to set the timezone a few of times -- the first couple of times it didn't stick. Did a Web Upgrade and it did do something but same problems.

I tried the Repair HDD but that didn't do anything (I have 2GB drive so I think I read that doesn't work with that size).

I have a backup (which I have been using to drive my Sonos system) so I went to Advanced -> Format HDD. I get a quick "Partitioning" message and the it returns with no other message. Still set to SD card and changing that doesn't work.

So opened it up, reset the SD card and checked that cables were OK (all seem firmly connected). Repeated the above to with no change.

So I guess I have a dead HDD.

Oh, Gear message on Web interface says:

Software Version B2B Mar 10 2022 10:05:42

193 tracks in 24 albums 6 artists

0 WAV 162 FLAC 15 MP3 16 AAC

Capacity 5.91G Used 5.41Gb

USB 0 tracks in 0 albums 0 artists

0 Youtubes

At one time I tried restoring from the backup but it restored to the SD card (which is now full) so that is where the 193 tracks come from.

IP address shows in display. NAS works (showing SD card).

So any suggestions?

LA Fred.

[PMB]

Hi LA Fred,

It sounds like the first task is to get the B2 into HDD mode. Try 'Use HDD' via the front panel a few times and if that fails try doing with the remote controller.

Paul

Brennan Support.

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Hi LA Fred,

It sounds as though your B2 has suffered an electrical "event" of some sort (your HDD lost and your settings changed)!.

Unless your UDD has really died (which I doubt), your music should still be safe - please do not try and reformat it again (yest).

1) please use the Web UI to delete the music you have filled the SD Card with - we do not want a full SD Card!

2) Then power off the B2 using the Hold in Stop/Play- Saving method first.

3) wait 30 second an reboot it.

4) I expect it will still be in SD Card mode, but check!

5) from the front controls go "Main menu > settings > maintenance > Use HDD"

You may have to run this several times in succession and if it still wont try using the button on the remote too.

Fred

[Fred Waltman]

Paul,

After I post the first message, I erased all the music from SD card , so now I am at zero.

I've set "Use HDD" about a half a dozen times from the front panel. It always says "restarting" and the green light flashes but it always comes up "Source SD Card."

I have power cycled the device another half dozen (or more times) and it always comes up SD Card. I notice that it flashes "Source SD Card: many times when rebooting.

I had to dig out the remote (don't think I've ever used it) and when I press HDD the green light flashes and it immediately says "SD Card." I've done that maybe 20 times now, with no effect,

After the rebooting, I see a lot of the following in the Wrench window:

sdaIsInternal () link = ../devices/platform/soc/20980000.usb/usb1/1-1/1-1.2/1-1.2:1.0/host0/target0:0:0/0:0:0:0/block/sda

then 

Trying sda1................. at 11471 ms

does not exist - retrying

does not exist - retrying

with about 20 lines of the "does not exist" followed by

does not exist - retrying

(null) does not exist - timed out

SDA1 found................... at 16645 ms

did not mount, errno = 22

Then there is a lot of config info, but nothing that looks like an error or a reference to the HDD (ending up with showing my Sonos speakers)

When I hit the HDD button on the remote it adds

pic_thread (): >40FF9867

I did follow your steps as in the above list. Stop/Play, power off, wait, power on (multiple times)

LA Fred

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Hi LA Fred

Hmm!

Well its a bit more serious then.

I dont know how tecky you are but I would fire fight this following this path.

1) eliminate the possibility of a software / SD Card corruption. To do this flash yourself a new SD Card and put it in.

2) if (1) did not work, I would take out the HDD and using a USB adapter, see if I can see it on a PC ok! If not then replace it with a new HDD or SSD, then reload the music from backup.

3) if it looks ok on the PC come back here and we will think further information

If you need help with doing the above, shout!

Fred

[Fred Waltman]

Very techy when it comes so software, a bit less so when it comes to hardware :)

First off, we are a Mac household, no Windows machines to be found. All of the instructions I've seen here about rebuilding the SD card referenced some Windows software, so you you (or anybody) can point me to Mac software to do the job, that would help.

Hooking the HDD to a Mac involves buying an enclosure and mounting the drive in that. I'd rather go straight to replacing the drive -- I have backups so there would be no data loss.

Thanks,

LA Fred

[Peter Lowham]

Hi LA Fred,

The software (balenaEtcher) that does the re-flashing is available for the Mac; I have re-flashed SD cards on a Mac without problems.

Regarding your base problem,  it is possible that the HDD has become corrupted and that a reformat might fix it.  I found a while ago that there are a couple of quirks in the 'Format HDD' process which can cause the format to fail, but with no indication of a failure.  So some users have gone on to try to Import when the disk has not been re-formatted.

Here is my process for formatting the HDD.  You already have a back up so go to step 1 directly.

=======================================================================================================================

How To Format A B2 Internal HDD

Firstly, do you have a backup (Export) of your music collection stored on a USD HDD or memory stick?  If you do, then I think that the way forwards is as described below in steps 1 to 8.

If you do not have a backup, can you rebuild your music collection by re-ripping all of your CDs?  (Very painful).

Assuming that you have a backup, then the best way of fixing this is to format the HDD, then 'Import' your collection back on to the B2 from the USB device.

1.  Select 'Settings' --> 'Maintenance' --> 'Stop NAS'

2.  Select 'Settings' --> 'Maintenance' --> 'Use SD'

3a.  Power the B2 down, wait 30 seconds and power up.  (This step is important)

3b.  Leave the B2 idle for 30 minutes.  (This step is also important)

4.  Select 'Settings' --> 'Maintenance' --> 'Advanced' --> 'Format HDD'

If at this point you see an error message on the front panel display, the it is is probable that the internal HDD has failed with a hardware fault.

If you see a message ‘Partitioning’ briefly followed by another message ‘Formating’ which should show for a time between approximately 1 and 3 minutes, depending on the capacity of the HDD, then the HDD is formatting and you should continue to step 5.

If ‘Formating’ disappears after a few seconds then the format has failed, then the above steps 3 and onwards should be repeated.  If the problem persists then the HDD is probably faulty.

5.  When the format has completed select 'Settings' --> 'Maintenance' --> 'Use HDD'

6.  Select 'Settings' --> 'Maintenance' --> 'Start NAS'

7.  Plug the USB backup device back into the B2

8.  Select ‘USB Functions’ --> 'Import from C’ (or ‘A’)

If the format fails after a couple of attempts then it is likely that the HDD has suffered a hardware failure.  In this case, contact Brennan through this Forum and request further assistance.

=============================================================================================================================

Regards,

Peter.

[Fred Waltman]

Peter,

No joy. Flashed a new SD card with no change.

Then let it sit for 30 minutes and tried a format HDD -- did what it has done every time in the past -- Briefly shows "Partitioning" and maybe for a fraction of a second shows "Formatting" -- it happens so fast I can't tell. Then returns to menu with source still SD card.

Earlier I tried doing a restore from  my USB drive but it filled the SD card :(

I will keep trying the reformat after letting the B2 sit for awhile, but I don't have high hopes.

LA Fred

[Peter Lowham]

Hi LA Fred,

The fact that 'Formatting' message is only showing for a second or so means that the formatting function has failed.  For a 2TB HDD, the 'formatting' message should show for about 2 - 3 minutes.

Did you use the procedure in the post above for the format?

Regards,

Peter.

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Hi LA Fred,

Well it looks like you are going to have to delve into your B2. Dont be scared it is not difficult. All screws are phillips and you need a soup bowl to put them in as you go. Obviously the unit must be off and all plugs/wires removed.

1) start at the front. The front panel is held on by 4 screws on the base, a pair on each side. Gently ease the front off and you will see that there is a cable attaching it to the inside, unplug this from the front socket (it has a tab so you cant put it back wrong!). Place the front in a safe place where you cant knock it off.

2) Go to the back of the unit and unscrew the top 2 screws only. Ease the back out gently. If as you do this you look under the board that comes out with the back, you will see some wires connecting to a little board which plugs into the CD unit, as you pull the tray further out the board should unplug and come with the tray gently tug on the wires to help if needed.

3) once free pull the tray out of the unit completely, and put it on a folded towel upside down (as far as I remember the HDD is screwed to the underside of the board - could be wrong but it IS attached to the board and obvious). 

4) the HDD is screwed to the board, remove the screws and ease it away from the plugged in end to remove it.

5) put the new HDD in and reverse the process, the trick bit is the CD plug but if you go gently this will go back quite easilly.

Fred

[Fred Waltman]

Well now it gets interesting. The warranty on the B2 is 1 year but I suspect the warranty on the drive itself is longer. I discovered the failure at just about the 1 year point were I purchased the B2 but less than 1  year since I received it.

To be honest, even though a new drive probably under $100, I am not inclined spend the money on a replacement. I was going to give the B2 to my brother -- I'll let him do it if he still is interested. Otherwise I guess it will go on the shelf with all the other broken Christmas toys :)

Some direction from Brennan on what drives are suitable would help, I guess.

LA Fred

[Daniel Taylor]

This is the drive I have installed in my B2:  Seagate BarraCuda 2TB Internal HDD currently $72.  (I paid $98.  They just keep on getting cheaper.)

Until I pass the 500GB mark, I'm using the disk that came in my B2 as one of my backups.  If you search the forum, you might find Paul's recommendation for the Toshiba Canvio drive.

I bought this: ORICO 2.5 inch External Hard Drive Enclosure USB3.0 to SATA III to contain the internal drive so it can be plugged into a USB port.  I see that that particular one is not currently available, but you can buy similar for around $10-15.

[PMB]

Hi LA Fred,

2.5", SATA, 7mm high, 5400rpm, 2TB max.

Paul

Brennan Support.

[Fred Waltman]

I overestimated the size of my library when I ordered the 2TB, the library is well under 1TB

Is there any reason I can't order a smaller (1TB) SSD instead of a spinning drive, so long as it is SATA 2.5", 7mm? Price is similar.

LA Fred

[Mark Fishman]

If your collection will fit in less than 1TB, by all means, save the money. The B2 hardware and software are the same apart from drive size.

[Peter Lowham]

Hi LA Fred,

There is no problem with replacing your 2TB HDD with a 1TB SSD (or even a 1TB HDD). As long as the size of your music collection is under 1GB that will work with no problems.

I do this on a regular basis while testing various software releases, and I often move my music collection from my B2 2TB onto a 500GB HDD or a 750GB SSD on another B2 and it all works without any problems.

Regards,

Peter.

[Fred Waltman]

Thanks, 1tb SSD ordered.

Fred

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Just a thought

But in case you want to "deal" with random SATA drives (HDD or SSD) in random locations, i find this little connector useful.

[Daniel Taylor]

Hey, that's pretty cool, Fred.  Like the USB enclosure I have, but without the enclosure and easier to hookup.

[Fred Waltman]

SO 1TB SanDisk SSD arrived today.

Installed it.... and exactly the same problems. When I go to Format HDD it says "Partioning" then very quickly "Failed" then back to the menu.

Opened back up, made sure all the HDD connectors were firm both the daughter board to the SDD and the molex from the main board to the daughter board.

I put the original SD card back in, just in case and the same result, though the display now says b2 6G

The SSD was sold by Amazon (not an Amazon reseller) so hopefully not a fake.

I think a neighbor has a USB-SATA interface, I will try and get ahold of him tomorrow, but I really am thinking it is something else at this point.

LA Fred

[Fred Waltman]

OK, I had an external USB drive I wasn't using and opened it up and replaced the Brennan HDD and when connected to my computer it came up fine.

So the HDD is fine, there is an issue with the controller or other hardware.

So what now?

LA Fred

[PMB]

Hi LA Fred,

Did you follow Peter's instructions, posted above, i.e. switching to SD Card mode, etc? I formatted a B2 recently and found I had to follow them to the letter (although I didn't wait the full 30 minutes - 3b).

Paul

Brennan Support.

[Fred Waltman]

Paul,

I don't think that is the issue as my drive does not need to be reformatted. I can see it fine when mounted  on my Mac. This all says to me there is a problem with the disk controller or some other hardware. So I am in need of hardware service and I don't know how to go about that except thru this forum.

LA Fred

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Hi LA Fred,

OK, Can I please check these facts with you, just to be sure i have things clear in my head.

1) Your Old B2 HDD is readable using a USB case outside the B2 on your PC/Mac.

2) your New B2 HDD is not formatting in the B2 (just as the old one wouldn't)

3) you have tried a new SD Card in your B2 and this did not help.

------------------

Also

-------------------

Please tell me what is plugged into the USB ports at the back of the B2 

How is you B2 connected - WiFi or Ethernet.

Does the B2's CD reader work OK (can you play a CD)

------------------------

Thanks

Fred

[Fred Waltman]

1) Yes

2) Yes

3) Yes

USB Ports: A:Bluetooth adapter, C: Nothing

Ethernet connection

CD Plays.

LA Fred

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Thanks LA Fred.

Just in case it is that, could you please try removing the Bluetooth adapter and seeing if the format process will work.

If not then can you please check that the USB connectors (there will be 2 of them beside the Ethernet socket) inside the B2 are firmly plugged into the Raspberry Pi's USB sockets. It just may be that one of them is loose there.

Fred

[Fred Waltman]

Bluetooth adapter removed, no change.

The two USB connectors seem firm (did not remove them)

LA Fred

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

I believe the B2's HDD SATA connector comes off the Pi's USBs (I can't remember when I changed the Pi in my friends - It could be the from the PCIO pins on the Pi board but I think the ribbon connector to that is what is used for the amplifier) 

Perhaps someone else on the Forum can confirm this?

My thinking is that actually there is nothing complex in the B2 supporting the HDD - it is essentially a USB hosted SATA device running directly off the Raspberry Pi's USB system (although Brennan does split these into more USB ports)  In which case I would suggest the next step would be to swap out the Pi. 

Let's see where the discussion on this goes.

Fred

[Keith Gardner]

A few years ago I experienced this problem. I resolved it by formatting the drive on a PC using the web download of 'SmartDisk_FAT32_tool'. This is a stand alone executable and does not install itself on the PC.

At the time I put it down to the drive arriving with software loaded in a hidden partition, but did not investigate further.

Keith G

[Peter Lowham]

Hi LA Fred,

From the diagnoses that have been carried out so far, it seems to me that the fault is on one of the two PCBs in the B2.

The two PCBs are (1) The Ras-Pi motherboard and (2) the Brennan custom daughter board (the larger of the two boards).

The USB connections, (those are USB A, USB C), and the quasi USB connections (which are the HDD and the CD drive) all are driven from the daughter board, and then fed through to the Ras-Pi motherboard via the 26 pin (early model) or 40 pin (later model) ribbon cable.

My estimate is that it is more likely that a component has failed on the daughter board, the main reason being the everything else on your B2 is working normally.  The only part that is not working is the HDD interface (USB B).

Having said that, it might be worth purchasing a Ras-Pi off of eBay as these can be bought quite cheaply, or better still borrow one from a friend.  I keep spares for my B2s, one is an early model, the other two are late models, so I have a spare Ras-Pi for each type.

In the meantime, you might be able to plug the HDD in to USB C and play music from there.  

Regards,

Peter.

[Fred Waltman]

I agree that a likely (and easiest to test) failure is the daughter board. 

Paul (or anybody from Brennan) would it be possible to send me another daughterboard - it is small and light and should be easy to mail, from either a US source or even from the UK. If that doesn't fix it. I'd return the new one and if it does, I'll return the defective one.

I have already bought a drive I don't need so I am not too eager to spend more money on something that "might" work. I am less eager to tear the B2 apart only to find out I bought the wrong RPI

LA Fred

[Peter Lowham]

Hi LA Fred,

Which model is your B2?  

The early model has the full sized SD card protruding out of the case; this model was produced from 2015 until March 2017.

This version uses the Raspberry Pi 1 Model B with a copyright marking on the board showing  'v1.2 (c)2011' and the header connector has 26 pins.

The late model has the microSD card which is inside the case.  

This version uses the Raspberry Pi 1 Model B+ with a copyright marking on the board showing  'v1.2 (c)2014'' and the header connector has 40 pins.

Regards,

Peter.

[Fred Waltman]

It's the one with micro SD card inside (late model). 

LA Fred

[Fred Waltman]

Just an update -- I received a daughter board (from the UK) and installed it this morning and my (original) HDD booted find and found all 17K+ tracks!

Cheers,

LA Fred

[Peter Lowham]

Hi Fred,

That's great to know; and even better to know that you are back in full action!

Regards,

Peter.

[Brian R]

Hi LA Fred

Well done! 

Glad you persevered. I think that's the first time the daughter board has proved to be faulty. At least on the forum.

Brian

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Hi LA Fred

Great news and well done!

Fred

On Wednesday, 27 April 2022 at 18:44:15 UTC+1 fwal...@gmail.com wrote:

[PMB]

Hi LA Fred,

Great news!

Hi All,

Please post any new messages on our new Forum page - link - https://www.thebrennanforum.com/

The information posted here will still be visible but replies from us at Brennan may not be as prompt as they were.

Paul

Brennan Support.